ma777

Specs: 1997 5 speed 2.2 yea yea another swap thread
Okay im tired of the cl being so slow. Ive been researhcing and been interested for a while in doing a swap. Ive saved up so money and i really want to do something with the car. How much of a gain will i notice if anyone has done this swap before. I decided to go for an f20b. To save money im just gunna keep my same trans. Can that trans handle the 8500 red line? Im just wanting to know what else i need. So far i know i need a motormount for an h22 or can shave mine. Will the axeles that i already have work fine? Im very good with technology/wiring so that shouldnt be a problem. I also work at a dealership so i have access to any tools i may need. Would it be better to try to get the f20b ecu or just chip mine? Any other parts i need and advice would be appreciated. Im set on the f20b because its much cheaper and i dont feel like the extra money ill be spending on the h22 is worth it.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

it's been done by a few members, search around

Miiike

iTrader: (4)

I've never driven one with an f20b, but I can't imagine you're really going to be much faster...145 ftlb of torque isn't much to pull around a 3,000 pound car, and even though you get the extra horsepower, it takes until 7,000rpm before you see it lol.
My friend had one in his 5th gen accord for about 3 weeks before he went back to his F22 because he got bored of it. I would just go with H22 if I had to swap in anything.

ma777

My main reasoning is my f22 is shit. I cant rev over 5k in gear and the engine has 200k on it. The f20 has a little less torque than the h22. Plus if/when i want to turbo i dont have to worry about internals.

Miiike

iTrader: (4)

Why don't you have to worry about internals? It's 11:1 compression, if you want to put any kind of useful boost through it I'd want to be rebuilding it first..

SupraManAG

no need for internals? wrong. you are rushing.... do your homework. we all understand the desire but you are heading into this all wrong
F22 is less shitty on a forced induction settup

ma777

Trust me I have been trying to learn as much as i can but everything contradicts itself. I never have anything to do during class so i look at google for an hour and read threads. It has an iron sleeved pistons right? So i can safely push 6-8 psi.

Miiike

iTrader: (4)

There's a lot more to boosting a motor than just that. The compression is a big thing with that motor if you want it to be reliable at all, because running 8psi with that compression and stock internals without any kind of a rebuild probably won't last long.
I just don't like the idea of waiting until you're at your redline before getting any decent power out of your car lol, that's why I'm not a huge fan of that motor.

DaInFaMMuS1

Here's some FACTS for you from someone who's actually run the full gamut of the DOHC swap for a 2.x CL since 2003:

- H22 > F20b. The car weights 3k+ pounds, the F20b does NOT have the torque to pull the car around efficiently or make driving it fun, period. As a matter of fact, there were 2 forum members with F20b's. 1 of them decided to go on spray, the other took the f20b out and installed an H23a Vtec because they were tired of the lack of torque.

- You're gonna need to splice between the F22 and F20b/H22 harness to get it correct, the F22 harness is missing some connectors and some connector ends are diff for the DOHC motors.

- You can't reliably boost an F20b to produce power without changing internals, regardless of iron sleeves. Compression is too high, your block might hold but your head/rods/pistons will not.

- Unless you're going to boost from the beginning, the f22 tranny gears are too long to make efficient, useful power from the F20b/H22/H23aVTEC, and you will be disappointed in the performance. It will be faster than your stock setup, but not enough to make the price worth it. Get an M2B4/T2T4 tranny, the gearing makes it a much quicker setup.

- You cannot chip your stock ecu. You can attempt to reprogram or flash it, but the ecu will revert itself back to stock settings. Get an obd2 H22 ecu if you go H22. or even better, obd1 p28/p72 ecu with neptune or hondata or something similar, an obd2 to obd1 harness, and have the car tuned or get a basemap programmed. Until you do that, you will be running around in circles trying to get the car to run properly.

- Do not skimp on mounts, get the Hasport or Innovative motor mount kit and bolt/ weld it in, and enjoy.

- You WILL spend more than you think to get it right, probably close to twice as much as you think. But it is absolutely worth every penny to do it right the 1st time.

For reference (and motivation), a couple swapped H series CL:

ma777

DaInfummas1 thanks for all the clear answers. The f20b is out I didnt feel like wasting all money on shipping. A friend/kid i kinda know from school has an auto 99 prelude. I think he said the car was t-boned from behind the doors. His dad owns a shop. Im gunna go and look at the motor/car tuesday.

ma777

I went to look at the engine today. Its an h22a4 auto out of a 98 prelude with 121k. It was hit in the rear. I was going to take some pictures but my damn memory card wasnt in my phone. He said the guy who sold it to him was a customer and he maintained the vechicle. He wants 800 I told him 600. He says i can take whatever i need. It comes with the wiring harness, complete motor, ecu, ps pump. No trannsmisson, alternator, or ac condensor. What do you guys think a fair price would be.

DaInFaMMuS1

600 for the longblock and harness basically? I'd take it. $500 more with a good manual tranny and you're in business for less than 2k to start!

ma777

Okay I got a text today he said he would do 700. I sell and fix iphones so i might try to hook him up with an iphone 4 to work out some trade. Im gunna take the valve cover off and take a look inside. He said i can take whatever i need. Okay ecu/immo question. I saw the ignition cloumn still in the car. If i take the ignition, rfid reader, and original key(i think its rfid) I shouldnt have any problems with the immobilizer right. Basically i just want to get the motor running as simply as possible with out any extra unneeded variables.

DaInFaMMuS1

The auto ecu won't work properly with your manual tranny setup btw. Gonna need a manual one. Which would mean you wouldn't need to change ur steering column/key if you got a manual ecu

ma777

yea, but he said i could take whatever i need. So i figure if i get everything i need for the ecu to start and for the immobilizer not to kick in I can sell it for more.

ma777

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Cant wait. Im going back tommarow for the axles, other half of the wiring harness, mounts, ignition, keys, and anything else you guys can think of.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

brice.hayden

i had a b16 in an integra and 99-00 civic Si's come stock with them and they dont have 100lb/ft of Torque and they are 2600lb cars.

people boost B18C1/5 motors all the time reliably with compression that high. I'm not sure your advice is worth taking.....

ma777

does anyone know if the down pipe from the cl will bolt up to the h22 headers?

DaInFaMMuS1

Mine didnt. 3 bolt flange on CL one and the H22 header is 2 bolt isn't it?

DaInFaMMuS1

em1 si's come stock with what? b16's not f20b's right? Either way neither of those cars would be relevant to the discussion being that we're talking F/H series here lol.

ma777

i dont know. I dont feel like getting dirty and Im to tired to mess with it from getting up at 6:30 to go to school. Im just trying to get everything I need together. This is my only car. I have to get everything together so I can knock this out a week. Im going to borrow a used car from my work.

yeedatoy

If you have inspections you will need to run the 1996 OBD-II P13 ECU, an OBD-I ECU wont pass if hooked to the diagnosic port, and the other OBD-II ECU have an immobilizer. You may also have a permanent CEL for not running the second EVAP purge valve that comes on the Prelude gas tank. You can safely run 6psi on stock internals just make sure you tune.

yeedatoy

Run the full header, it is very well designed. A DC header will give you about 1-3whp....that should give you an idea.

ma777

Immo shouldnt be a problem. I have the ignition, wiring, and key.

Heres everything I took with it:
Axels
motor mounts
wiring harness
ecu/tcu
ignition/ key
Hli510 immobilizer module

I actually just took the entire steering column along with all the wires lol.

There was an aftermarket alarm that i took too.


http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2701493

I plan on doing that to convert my ecu. Should be easy considering some of the things ive done with a soldering iron before. What are your guys thoughts on that thread?

yeedatoy

I suppose if you convert the ECU to manual it won't be an issue. My best advice is to use that ECU for inspections only, and get a jumper harness and run the OBD-I ECU and have it tuned. Another option is to get a basemap ECU from Phearable, these motors run way too damn rich to run as they should and benefit from a slightly lower Vtec engagement point. I always had problems when I was too fast to drop into second, but when I dropped into third I was right before VTEC and b18's would have the advantage. 4700 would have been awesome.

ma777

im staring at the wiring harness trying to figure out what to do exactly. Im trying to take out some of the wires that are for the auto tranny. Im bored, im trying to get some stuff ready so i dont have to do it later. Should I just take out everything thats not connected to the 3 plugs that connect to the ecu? Meaning remove all wires that dont connect to the h22 or ecu? Im sure it will make alot more sense when I get my car torn apart.

brice.hayden

the point Miiike was trying to make was that 145lb/feet of torque isn't enough to pull the weight of a CL that an F20b produces and Im saying that a car that weighs just a little less that only produced 100lb/feet of torque does such a good job that honda mass produced them in the DA and the EM1 chassis. Relevant conversation discussing power to weight ratio is very relevant. Sorry you don't think so.
Maybe your screen name should be the DaIgNoRaNt1

Miiike

iTrader: (4)

My point wasn't that the torque won't move the car, I was comparing the f20b to the h22. Neither one of them really have THAT much torque, but the h22 has 20lb/ft or so more I think so it just makes more sense to me to use that since the CL isn't exactly a light car.

Again I'm not saying it's impossible to do, but if I was going to do it reliably with that motor I'd want to at least do internals. I understand most of these civic kids with their b18s or whatever just slap on whatever $1000 turbo kit they can find and hope for the best, but if it were up to me I'd just do it right the first time.

DaInFaMMuS1

Listen, you don't need to have an attitude to make a point. It wasn't clear in your 1st statement that that was the point u were trying to make. So your insight/opinion on cars are welcome but please keep ur attitude and your opinions of my username to yourself, thanks.

ma777

god damn guys I didnt mean for this to be a thread to be a thread for you guys to argue in. Im going to need some help here soon. I will hopefully start sunday my swap sunday. What clutch do you guys think I should go with. From what ive seen clutches that work with the cl work with the prelude and vice versa. Should i just buy an oem one from autozone or an ebay one. If from ebay, whats a good brand?

yeedatoy

Exedy makes good OEM replacements, but since I bet you'll be dumping it often I would do an Exedy stage 1 or 2 unless you have cash to fork out for a better one.

yeedatoy

Also, I would wait until you can get a lighter flywheel as well since access will be easy at that point.

SupraManAG

I could sell you my fidanza lightweight flywheel and ACT clutch. I can no longer use them. My tranny gearing has to all get replaced and maybe a tilton may go in. I can sell you some other parts if you want from my N/A - turbo build. Just PM me if interested.
Oh and a already welded dnpipe...

brice.hayden

I'm not talking about kids and 1000dollar turbo setups. I'm talking about 25-35 year olds who spend 1800+ bucks on a GT40R and all the correct parts to make that work. with proper tuning and the correct size fuel managing parts, you can turbo anything and make it last. I really dont think you see the point.

97'CL2.2

dude relax...u dont need any more members around here hating u

brice.hayden

like i care what some doucher from ohio thinks.

DaInFaMMuS1

QUIT with the attitude, consider this your warning

DaInFaMMuS1

I'd vouch for Arber, he also knows a lot about the H swap in a CL. His next setup will most definitely be amazing lol

ma777

So swap got pushed back because its homecoming week. God damn girlfriends. I talked to one of my managers and he says i can do the swap at work. So i will have access to a car lift, engine cradle basically anything I could need. One of the mechanics said he'd give me a turbo If i put it on my car. My best friend said If i go turbo he'll buy the intercooler lol. But there both full of it.

I chopped off the prelude power steering line. I remember reading somewhere i need to connect it to the hard line on the CL? I dont remember if it was for a civic or an accord. Will my current power steering work with the prelude?