2.2/2.3/3.0 Differences
05-20-2010, 09:45 AM
#1
Suzuka Master
Thread Starter
2.2/2.3/3.0 Differences
Suspension:
credit goes to accordinglydone forums
What everyone should know....
-Please know that you get what you pay for. If you buy a $50 set of springs, you will not get very good quality. That is the reason they are $50.
-If you get lowering springs or coilovers, you will need to get struts that will handle it. Otherwise your stock struts will blow very fast, and it will be dangerous to drive and you will look like an idiot for that matter.
- Individual product pros and cons are at the bottom.
1) Should I lower my CL?
If you want to do it to look cool, maybe no. If you want to do it to get better handling, acceleration, and deceleration. Yes.
2) Can I lower my car and keep a stock ride?
No. A stock ride is caused by soft springs, soft struts, and having loads of suspension travel. Lowering defeats this concept.
3) How do I tell how low my car is?
-lightningd- find another stock accord in a parking lot somewhere, and measure from the center of the wheel to the fender. then measure yours.
4) Where I live the roads are rough. What can I do to compensate for it when I have a lowered car?
-lightningd- If the roads are kinda rough, there's pretty much nothing you can really do to compensate for it when your car is low. this is mainly why cars are high, and have a soft suspension.
-Schmuckingham- I would say nothing over a 1.5" drop with some adjustable shocks like the AGX's at least.
5) I want to lower my CL to handle a little better, as well as for the look. However, I do not plan on doing any racing. What should I get?
- lightningd - I would recommend Eibach Sportline or Nuespeed Race springs and either Koni Reds, Koni Yellows, or KYB ABX struts. They are known to be of good quality. However, better 'racing' applications exist.
6) I want to race my CL in autox or at a road track speedway, as well as drive it on the street. What products should I look for?
- lightningd -I and most people will recommend Ground Control coilovers and Koni Yellows. The best part about the Ground Controls is they use a Eibach Racing Spring and you can choose your spring rate. You can even buy extra sets of springs which go for around $100 a pair I believe. The Koni Yellows offer adjustability of the stiffness of the strut as well. If you are running the same size tire front and rear, you should run a stiffer spring rate in the back. Some people run 300/350, some 400/450, and I will try 350/450, or 350/500, or 400/500 and see what happens.
NOTE: If you are a novice to medium driver, then this can be dangerous, especially in wet conditions.
7) What does spring rate mean?
Spring rate is the amount of weight it takes to compress the spring a linear inch. For example, with a 300lb spring, it takes 300 pounds to compress the spring 1 inch.
8) Do I need a Camber kit? Does the height make a difference?
- lightningd - It depends on what you want. Negative camber offers better handling, but can affect tire wear. Which are you more concerned with? If you want better tire wear, make sure you get an alignment to make sure your toe angle is straight (both tires are pointing the same direction down the road). There are two types of camber kits that I know of for our accords. The original Ingall's camber kit that pushes the upper control arm outwards, which in relation pushes the tire straight up as well. However, if the control arm is moved out too far, then it will smack the underside of the fender and make a horrendous noise every time you hit a bump hard enough. The other camber kit is called the ball joint kit. It replaces the ball joint at the end of the upper control arm. Being adjustable, it moves the knuckle outward which in relation moves the tire out. I do not believe this causes any problems with 'banging' unless someone on here will inform me about it. During installation of the kit, it must be put on very accurately b/c it will affect castor if not put on straight. I haven't installed this kit, so I’m not sure on the correct procedure.
-M23Accord- I use the ball joint camber kit and they do occasionally (the UCAs) hit the upper part of the fender but few and far between. Only on serious dips in the road. But you are dead on about the mounting of these. A millimeter difference makes a huge impact on alignment, both caster and camber.
9) What do I need to know about Ground Control Coilovers?
PROS
- when you order from GC direct, you can pick custom spring rates, and get as many as you want
- good quality
- performance oriented if needed
- height adjustable
- uses Eibach Racing Springs
CONS
- more expensive than lowering springs
10) What do I need to know about Koni Reds?
PROS
- Koni = quality
CONS
- non-adjustable
Comments
- phatdoughnut - My wifes 4th gen accord has Koni reds with some eibachs sports and the ride quality is amazing. Defiantly recommend these to anyone who wants something better than oem replacement, but not want to fork out the big bucks for something adjustable.
11) What do I need to know about Koni Yellows?
Two types. Standard and Nuespeed Sport Editions.
Standard has 3 perch settings. The fronts are adjustable with the knob. The rears you have to take the strut off the car to adjust.
VXCL-koni yellows both f and r are adj by knob, no need to take anything off car unless you want to change the perch in which both f and r are like that. i never had any probs adj my rear shocks in the trunk.
Sports have 5 perch settings along w/ shorter shafts. The shafts mean that the spring will not come out of the seat when the car is jacked up. The rear struts are adjustable with the knob, and the strut on the car.
VXCL-never ever had this happen with standard koni yellows with prokits however may happen with sportlines or more agressive drop springs
PROS
- Koni = quality
- adjustable w/ a knob
- can be revalved and made to custom stiffness by Koni
- adjustable spring perch settings
- lifetime warrenty (and they do honor it!)
CONS
- rear bracket needs to be taken off to adjust rear struts, unless you do something custom
-VXCL-again never had a prob adj the rear dampers, just put the knob on and spin
- on the expensive side
13) What should I know about KYB GR2?
-lightningd- I know that the KYB GR2s are replacements for OEM. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I would not recommend them on a lowered car, b/c that is not what they are designed for. They might work ok for a while, do to a little better quality than OEM, but eventually will still get worn out quicker than an AGX or Koni Yellow.
-Confuc1ous- The KYB GR2's are capable of handling a lowered suspension up to 1.5 inches. They are OEM replacement but better. They aren’t the adjustable type like the AGX but when manufactured they are made so they can facilitate up to a 1.5 inch drop. The best spring, according to KYB for this application is the Neuspeed SofSport or Sport springs. Anything that will take the car moderately lower than 1.5 inches, well, what you mentioned above is the outcome.
14) What do I need to know about KYB AGX's?
PROS
- decent quality
- wallet friendly
- adjustable stiffness. 4 settings for front. 8 settings for rear
- rear adjustment knob is reachable behind the wheel
CONS
- settings aren't as able to be fine tunes as the Koni Yellows
- warranty only good if the car is lowered 1.5" or higher. Any lower voids the warranty, and I’ve heard they don't last as long when the car is around 3" lowered.
Adjustment Values:
4-Dial (Front)
...Setting#: Relative Value
...1 - Same as Factory 100
...2 - 10~15% firmer than Factory 115
...3 - 50% firmer than #2 172
...4 - 30% firmer than #3 223
8-dial (Rear)
...#1 = 95 (5% softer than Factory
...#2 = 100 (Factory damping force)
...#3 = 107.5 (7.5% firmer than Factory)
...#4 = 115 (15% firmer than Factory)
...#5 = 143.5 (43.5% firmer than Factory)
...#6 = 172 (72% firmer than Factory)
...#7 = 197.5 (97.5 firmer than Factory)
...#8 = 223 (123 % firmer than Factory )
15) What do I need to know about Tokico HP's?
-Chris- I hear from most people that have used them that they tend to blow out fairly easily. Tokicos DO have a lifetime warranty so they will replace it if you have the original purchase receipt. They are also non-adjustable and not very stiff as far as dampening goes.
-Trapshot68- Tokico blue (blow) suck. I had them, and they're better than blown shocks with a 1.5" drop, but after about I'd say 25k, they blew out. My rear end sags like nothing, and I didn't even really drive it that hard. I drive the canyons a lot to work, and that's about it....Sure, they're lifetime warranty, but why do I want to spend a day ripping them out, waiting for them to ship me a new one, and then spend more money to align the car again??? ....BLUES=SHIT. Spend the extra $100 and get the kyb. I'd rather take the time to save up the extra money, than take the time and replace a blown "new" shock
16) What do I need to know about Tokico Illuminas?
-Chris- The Tokico Illuminas are a much better product [than the HP's], and give you 5 adjustability settings front and rear. I use these on my car and have had them for nearly four years with absolutely no issues. Adjustment dials are on the top of the strut tower. Overall quality of these struts seems pretty good; most people that ride in my car are impressed with how flat the car handles in hard turns.
17) What do I need to know about the Tokico Illumina coil-overs?
No answers yet.
19) What do I need to know about the Tein Basics?
-Grodzman-
MSRP: $750
Spring Rates: Front: 336lbs/square in. Rear: 280lbs/square in.
Drop: Front: -2.4" Rear: -2.0"
Height Adjustability Range: Front: -1.8~-3.5 Rear: -1.1~-2.7
EDFC INCOMPATIBLE
20) What do I need to know about the Tein Super Streets?
Tein Type SS: # DSA16-KUSS2 - Retails for $1000
For : 94-97 HONDA Accord, CD5/7
16 way adjustable
Spring Rate F/R : 336 / 280 lbs/in
Ride Height F/R : -2.1 / -1.6 in
SPRING RATE ADJUSTMENT RANGE
Front Rate Max/Min : +2.0 / -2.0 lbs/in
Rear Rate Max/Min : +2.0 / -2.0 lbs/in
RIDE HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT RANGE
Front Range Max/Min : -1.4 to -3.3 in
Rear Range Max/Min : -0.7 to -2.5 in
EDFC Part # : Not Compatible
21) What do I need to know about the Tein Super Streets w/Pillow Balls?
Tein Type SS-P: # DSA16-2USS1 - Retails for $1300
SAME specs as Tein SS
EDFC Part # : EDKU1-12120
22) What do I need to know about the d2 racing RS coilovers
part no. D2-H07
MSRP: $1,055.56
comes with pillowball upper mounts
32 way adjustable
23) What do I need to know about the H&R Sport Springs? (#51851)
-SpecialED-
- Drop: Front 1.75" Rear 1.5"
- 25% Stiffer than OEM
24) What do I need to know about the H&R Race Springs? (#51851-88)
-SpecialED-
- Drop: Front 2.2" Rear 2.0"
- Spring Rates: Front: 485lbs/square in. Rear: 305lbs/square in.
-phatdoughnut- I ordered some H&R Race springs for my friend and it lowered his car to much for street use.
25) What do I need to know about the Omni Power Coilovers
-Jerimiah-
- quite high quality.
- 12kg/front, 10kg/rear for the Sports.
Ride quality is smooth over "good" roads. And when you get into the bumpy's you can definitely feel it. Can be lowered in the front from 1" to I would say about 3.5"-4". The rear end can be kept at stock ride height, or down low enough to have the back end of the car almost touching. Quite a bit of adjustability.
__________________
Sway Bars
Upgraded sway bars will reduce body roll, and reduces the traction of the tires so that the car can turn/rotate more easily. Will also help reduce the massive amount of wheel hop the CL’s have. Sway bars are from a 94-97 accord for both the 2.3 and 3.0.
Camber Kits
Ingalls – (94-97 Accord)
SRI – (94-97 Accord)
Eibach – (94-97 Accord)
credit goes to accordinglydone forums
What everyone should know....
-Please know that you get what you pay for. If you buy a $50 set of springs, you will not get very good quality. That is the reason they are $50.
-If you get lowering springs or coilovers, you will need to get struts that will handle it. Otherwise your stock struts will blow very fast, and it will be dangerous to drive and you will look like an idiot for that matter.
- Individual product pros and cons are at the bottom.
1) Should I lower my CL?
If you want to do it to look cool, maybe no. If you want to do it to get better handling, acceleration, and deceleration. Yes.
2) Can I lower my car and keep a stock ride?
No. A stock ride is caused by soft springs, soft struts, and having loads of suspension travel. Lowering defeats this concept.
3) How do I tell how low my car is?
-lightningd- find another stock accord in a parking lot somewhere, and measure from the center of the wheel to the fender. then measure yours.
4) Where I live the roads are rough. What can I do to compensate for it when I have a lowered car?
-lightningd- If the roads are kinda rough, there's pretty much nothing you can really do to compensate for it when your car is low. this is mainly why cars are high, and have a soft suspension.
-Schmuckingham- I would say nothing over a 1.5" drop with some adjustable shocks like the AGX's at least.
5) I want to lower my CL to handle a little better, as well as for the look. However, I do not plan on doing any racing. What should I get?
- lightningd - I would recommend Eibach Sportline or Nuespeed Race springs and either Koni Reds, Koni Yellows, or KYB ABX struts. They are known to be of good quality. However, better 'racing' applications exist.
6) I want to race my CL in autox or at a road track speedway, as well as drive it on the street. What products should I look for?
- lightningd -I and most people will recommend Ground Control coilovers and Koni Yellows. The best part about the Ground Controls is they use a Eibach Racing Spring and you can choose your spring rate. You can even buy extra sets of springs which go for around $100 a pair I believe. The Koni Yellows offer adjustability of the stiffness of the strut as well. If you are running the same size tire front and rear, you should run a stiffer spring rate in the back. Some people run 300/350, some 400/450, and I will try 350/450, or 350/500, or 400/500 and see what happens.
NOTE: If you are a novice to medium driver, then this can be dangerous, especially in wet conditions.
7) What does spring rate mean?
Spring rate is the amount of weight it takes to compress the spring a linear inch. For example, with a 300lb spring, it takes 300 pounds to compress the spring 1 inch.
8) Do I need a Camber kit? Does the height make a difference?
- lightningd - It depends on what you want. Negative camber offers better handling, but can affect tire wear. Which are you more concerned with? If you want better tire wear, make sure you get an alignment to make sure your toe angle is straight (both tires are pointing the same direction down the road). There are two types of camber kits that I know of for our accords. The original Ingall's camber kit that pushes the upper control arm outwards, which in relation pushes the tire straight up as well. However, if the control arm is moved out too far, then it will smack the underside of the fender and make a horrendous noise every time you hit a bump hard enough. The other camber kit is called the ball joint kit. It replaces the ball joint at the end of the upper control arm. Being adjustable, it moves the knuckle outward which in relation moves the tire out. I do not believe this causes any problems with 'banging' unless someone on here will inform me about it. During installation of the kit, it must be put on very accurately b/c it will affect castor if not put on straight. I haven't installed this kit, so I’m not sure on the correct procedure.
-M23Accord- I use the ball joint camber kit and they do occasionally (the UCAs) hit the upper part of the fender but few and far between. Only on serious dips in the road. But you are dead on about the mounting of these. A millimeter difference makes a huge impact on alignment, both caster and camber.
9) What do I need to know about Ground Control Coilovers?
PROS
- when you order from GC direct, you can pick custom spring rates, and get as many as you want
- good quality
- performance oriented if needed
- height adjustable
- uses Eibach Racing Springs
CONS
- more expensive than lowering springs
10) What do I need to know about Koni Reds?
PROS
- Koni = quality
CONS
- non-adjustable
Comments
- phatdoughnut - My wifes 4th gen accord has Koni reds with some eibachs sports and the ride quality is amazing. Defiantly recommend these to anyone who wants something better than oem replacement, but not want to fork out the big bucks for something adjustable.
11) What do I need to know about Koni Yellows?
Two types. Standard and Nuespeed Sport Editions.
Standard has 3 perch settings. The fronts are adjustable with the knob. The rears you have to take the strut off the car to adjust.
VXCL-koni yellows both f and r are adj by knob, no need to take anything off car unless you want to change the perch in which both f and r are like that. i never had any probs adj my rear shocks in the trunk.
Sports have 5 perch settings along w/ shorter shafts. The shafts mean that the spring will not come out of the seat when the car is jacked up. The rear struts are adjustable with the knob, and the strut on the car.
VXCL-never ever had this happen with standard koni yellows with prokits however may happen with sportlines or more agressive drop springs
PROS
- Koni = quality
- adjustable w/ a knob
- can be revalved and made to custom stiffness by Koni
- adjustable spring perch settings
- lifetime warrenty (and they do honor it!)
CONS
- rear bracket needs to be taken off to adjust rear struts, unless you do something custom
-VXCL-again never had a prob adj the rear dampers, just put the knob on and spin
- on the expensive side
13) What should I know about KYB GR2?
-lightningd- I know that the KYB GR2s are replacements for OEM. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I would not recommend them on a lowered car, b/c that is not what they are designed for. They might work ok for a while, do to a little better quality than OEM, but eventually will still get worn out quicker than an AGX or Koni Yellow.
-Confuc1ous- The KYB GR2's are capable of handling a lowered suspension up to 1.5 inches. They are OEM replacement but better. They aren’t the adjustable type like the AGX but when manufactured they are made so they can facilitate up to a 1.5 inch drop. The best spring, according to KYB for this application is the Neuspeed SofSport or Sport springs. Anything that will take the car moderately lower than 1.5 inches, well, what you mentioned above is the outcome.
14) What do I need to know about KYB AGX's?
PROS
- decent quality
- wallet friendly
- adjustable stiffness. 4 settings for front. 8 settings for rear
- rear adjustment knob is reachable behind the wheel
CONS
- settings aren't as able to be fine tunes as the Koni Yellows
- warranty only good if the car is lowered 1.5" or higher. Any lower voids the warranty, and I’ve heard they don't last as long when the car is around 3" lowered.
Adjustment Values:
4-Dial (Front)
...Setting#: Relative Value
...1 - Same as Factory 100
...2 - 10~15% firmer than Factory 115
...3 - 50% firmer than #2 172
...4 - 30% firmer than #3 223
8-dial (Rear)
...#1 = 95 (5% softer than Factory
...#2 = 100 (Factory damping force)
...#3 = 107.5 (7.5% firmer than Factory)
...#4 = 115 (15% firmer than Factory)
...#5 = 143.5 (43.5% firmer than Factory)
...#6 = 172 (72% firmer than Factory)
...#7 = 197.5 (97.5 firmer than Factory)
...#8 = 223 (123 % firmer than Factory )
15) What do I need to know about Tokico HP's?
-Chris- I hear from most people that have used them that they tend to blow out fairly easily. Tokicos DO have a lifetime warranty so they will replace it if you have the original purchase receipt. They are also non-adjustable and not very stiff as far as dampening goes.
-Trapshot68- Tokico blue (blow) suck. I had them, and they're better than blown shocks with a 1.5" drop, but after about I'd say 25k, they blew out. My rear end sags like nothing, and I didn't even really drive it that hard. I drive the canyons a lot to work, and that's about it....Sure, they're lifetime warranty, but why do I want to spend a day ripping them out, waiting for them to ship me a new one, and then spend more money to align the car again??? ....BLUES=SHIT. Spend the extra $100 and get the kyb. I'd rather take the time to save up the extra money, than take the time and replace a blown "new" shock
16) What do I need to know about Tokico Illuminas?
-Chris- The Tokico Illuminas are a much better product [than the HP's], and give you 5 adjustability settings front and rear. I use these on my car and have had them for nearly four years with absolutely no issues. Adjustment dials are on the top of the strut tower. Overall quality of these struts seems pretty good; most people that ride in my car are impressed with how flat the car handles in hard turns.
17) What do I need to know about the Tokico Illumina coil-overs?
No answers yet.
19) What do I need to know about the Tein Basics?
-Grodzman-
MSRP: $750
Spring Rates: Front: 336lbs/square in. Rear: 280lbs/square in.
Drop: Front: -2.4" Rear: -2.0"
Height Adjustability Range: Front: -1.8~-3.5 Rear: -1.1~-2.7
EDFC INCOMPATIBLE
20) What do I need to know about the Tein Super Streets?
Tein Type SS: # DSA16-KUSS2 - Retails for $1000
For : 94-97 HONDA Accord, CD5/7
16 way adjustable
Spring Rate F/R : 336 / 280 lbs/in
Ride Height F/R : -2.1 / -1.6 in
SPRING RATE ADJUSTMENT RANGE
Front Rate Max/Min : +2.0 / -2.0 lbs/in
Rear Rate Max/Min : +2.0 / -2.0 lbs/in
RIDE HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT RANGE
Front Range Max/Min : -1.4 to -3.3 in
Rear Range Max/Min : -0.7 to -2.5 in
EDFC Part # : Not Compatible
21) What do I need to know about the Tein Super Streets w/Pillow Balls?
Tein Type SS-P: # DSA16-2USS1 - Retails for $1300
SAME specs as Tein SS
EDFC Part # : EDKU1-12120
22) What do I need to know about the d2 racing RS coilovers
part no. D2-H07
MSRP: $1,055.56
comes with pillowball upper mounts
32 way adjustable
23) What do I need to know about the H&R Sport Springs? (#51851)
-SpecialED-
- Drop: Front 1.75" Rear 1.5"
- 25% Stiffer than OEM
24) What do I need to know about the H&R Race Springs? (#51851-88)
-SpecialED-
- Drop: Front 2.2" Rear 2.0"
- Spring Rates: Front: 485lbs/square in. Rear: 305lbs/square in.
-phatdoughnut- I ordered some H&R Race springs for my friend and it lowered his car to much for street use.
25) What do I need to know about the Omni Power Coilovers
-Jerimiah-
- quite high quality.
- 12kg/front, 10kg/rear for the Sports.
Ride quality is smooth over "good" roads. And when you get into the bumpy's you can definitely feel it. Can be lowered in the front from 1" to I would say about 3.5"-4". The rear end can be kept at stock ride height, or down low enough to have the back end of the car almost touching. Quite a bit of adjustability.
__________________
Sway Bars
Upgraded sway bars will reduce body roll, and reduces the traction of the tires so that the car can turn/rotate more easily. Will also help reduce the massive amount of wheel hop the CL’s have. Sway bars are from a 94-97 accord for both the 2.3 and 3.0.
Camber Kits
Ingalls – (94-97 Accord)
SRI – (94-97 Accord)
Eibach – (94-97 Accord)
Last edited by saiko_cl_duck; 05-20-2010 at 09:49 AM.
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