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Are the ZF9 transmissions issues fixed for the 19 models
I am doing as much research as possible on the TLX and I have encountered lots of complaints about the early model woes for these transmissions... Hard to imagine Honda continued to sell these cars without addressing the concerns. Just wondering since I am considering purchasing one of these cars. It used to be that Honda/Acura products had a very strong resell. Is this still the case or no different than BMWs and Audi?
I don't think there's been widespread problems since the '15 models. Most complaints after the '15 model aren't necessarily for harsh shifting but rather just the lazy nature of the transmission itself. I own a '16 but supposedly the '18 and newer TLX models are somewhat less lazy than the '16 - '17 models.
I don't think there's been widespread problems since the '15 models. Most complaints after the '15 model aren't necessarily for harsh shifting but rather just the lazy nature of the transmission itself. I own a '16 but supposedly the '18 and newer TLX models are somewhat less lazy than the '16 - '17 models.
I had a late model 15 Advance and the tranny was not as bad as the early 15s, but it was still horrible. I have a 19 ASPEC V6 with the ZF9 and it is leap and bounds better, but it is still far from an ideal tranny IMO. Shifts from a rolling stop are laggy as hell. Also I find that for whatever reason both my 15 and 19 when temps are around mid 40s and damp or rainy the combo of tranny and whatever else is going on makes for some really crappy shifting under various scenarios. Me personally would never buy this car for the long haul, the tranny while better still reminds me at times why it has a bad rep. I am sure there are plenty of people that are and will be happy with it, but for me this is not a long term ride, it is a 3 year lease that hold me until the Type-S is out or maybe next gen G80 or even a G70.
It's definitely the weak link. The TLX trans doesn't lag all the time but every once in a while under certain conditions you hit the gas and the car does nothing for a 2-3 seconds before it finally downshifts. You could very well test drive it and never feel the lag. I experience it the most when going 40 to 50 mph and then slow down to 15 to 20 mph to make a turn and hit the gas. Do that 10 times on a test drive and if you don't feel it then or are fine with the behavior it should not be a concern.
Have owned many cars and the TLX is the only one where I ever gave a single thought to the transmission behavior. It makes me wonder who Acura uses to test drive these cars before bringing them to production. I would expect with Ikeda back in charge at Acura that the next Gen will be much improved. He did what he could with the current model mid cycle but the next gen will be all his. Hopefully he hits a home run like he did with the 3rd gen TL.
I’ve spent the last two days driving around in my older son’s Q50S. Honestly, it’s transmission is about as laggy as the ZF in my old 16 TLX. However, it’s more powerful VQ37 is able to mitigate some of its lag though largely only under aggressive throttle.
interesting, i had a M37S with the Infiniti 7AT and in 39 months and 40K miles and can count on one hand how many times the tranny made any mis-step that i noticed.
I also experienced the same ‘turn right and pause on throttle application’ thing in the Q50 that some of us have experienced in the TLX. Granted not as pronounced.
I also experienced the same ‘turn right and pause on throttle application’ thing in the Q50 that some of us have experienced in the TLX. Granted not as pronounced.
My 2015 2.4 TLX does this from time to time too. At least on the Normal IDS mode. It's not just when turning for me - I can take my foot off the gas and coast up to a light which turns green before I come to a full stop. When I slowly get back on the gas the car will on occasion almost pause for a short second before TAKING OFF. I suspect at those low speeds when coasting it's not sure of the perfect gear and ends up shifting down to 1 which causes it to move forward a little more abruptly and less "smoothly" than I may want. My description likely sounds worse than it is. That said - it's one of the few nits I have with the car.
The 14 MDX 6 speed can lag at times even with whatever updates they say they have done. The smoothest transmissions have been the 8 speed BMW offers.
Generally ZF hardware is pretty good to excellent. Lots of times issues are the user (car manufacturer) software applications. ZF8 software in a BMW.
There is a lot more to it then just saying when to shift. Its a very very major integration issue with the rest of the cars systems & sensors.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-23-2018 at 03:17 PM.
Generally ZF hardware is pretty good to excellent. Lots of times issues are the user (car manufacturer) software applications. ZF8 software in a BMW.
There is a lot more to it then just saying when to shift. Its a very very major integration issue with the rest of the cars systems & sensors.
Bear, I know you get more on the tech side of things with stuff but for me and most people the bottom line is does the transmission perform well. In the case of the ZF9 with acura it's not what a typical driver would expect unless they have never driven other cars. Owned many cars both manual and automatics and the ZF9 is by far the only one that had the noticable lag of any sort. Maybe it's common with todays transmissions but it's still hard for me to understand why with tech moving forward the transmission performance is moving backwards. Maybe it's the stretch to get every MPG out of the car but the 3rd gen TL trans never lagged and was a beast (at least in my Type-S), when you hit the gas and you didn't have to put the pedal to the floor to take off, response was immediate.
Not sure what the weight of the 3rd gen to the TLX was but that 286hp Type S took off like a plane when you hit the gas at any speed or circumstance. I used to pass cars with ease up hills, while with the TLX I just follow behind the slow car ahead as to as it just doesn't have the get up and go to zip by a slow car in a tight window. The type S would already be passing a car before the ZF9 decides what gear to shift into. Either the torque is less or the power is diminished from the engine to the wheels but something is off performance wise. Too many gears or just too new tech to get it right?
Bear, I know you get more on the tech side of things with stuff but for me and most people the bottom line is does the transmission perform well. In the case of the ZF9 with acura it's not what a typical driver would expect unless they have never driven other cars. Owned many cars both manual and automatics and the ZF9 is by far the only one that had the noticable lag of any sort. Maybe it's common with todays transmissions but it's still hard for me to understand why with tech moving forward the transmission performance is moving backwards. Maybe it's the stretch to get every MPG out of the car but the 3rd gen TL trans never lagged and was a beast (at least in my Type-S), when you hit the gas and you didn't have to put the pedal to the floor to take off, response was immediate.
Not sure what the weight of the 3rd gen to the TLX was but that 286hp Type S took off like a plane when you hit the gas at any speed or circumstance. I used to pass cars with ease up hills, while with the TLX I just follow behind the slow car ahead as to as it just doesn't have the get up and go to zip by a slow car in a tight window. The type S would already be passing a car before the ZF9 decides what gear to shift into. Either the torque is less or the power is diminished from the engine to the wheels but something is off performance wise. Too many gears or just too new tech to get it right?
Think it was two things.
1 The 9ZF was a poor design choice. They wanted a 9 speed for EPA numbers. Problem - A conventional 9 speed auto trans would be pretty big & they need an east west orientation which requires a short case to fit. Your 9 speed is about half the length of my north south 8 speed. Only way to go short was to use Dog Clutches in place of normal components which are very difficult to synchronize compared to the traditional parts.
2 Software - To make it work is a real bitch to get right. Only way was to slow down selection & engagement of the gear sets involved. No hit on Acura because all the manufactures using the 9 have had software problems trying to get them to work properly. They made a mistake of releasing the V6 to early which killed their reliability image, but to Acuras credit they seem to have done the best job in the last version of the software implementation of all the users.
It papers over the basic issue & gentle drivers are most likely OK with the last iteration. People who are a bit more aggressive with trip the limits of the fix on occasion.
The heaviest 3G TL was about the same weight as the lightest TLX
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-23-2018 at 06:07 PM.
The ZF9 sucks so badly that I'm actively trying to trade out of my TLX right now even though it's a lease. Even with my jerry-rigged fix of resetting the ECU, I should not be having to adjust my life to the transmission. I've owned over 20 cars in my 30 years of driving and I've never had to think this much about automatic transmission function. In fact, I've never had to think about automatic transmission function *at all*, which indicates an automatic fail from me. The only way I'm keeping the car at this point is if the Type S is really coming in 2019, and if so, I'll try to hang on. But right now, I'm looking at the Genesis G70 or its bigger cousin, the Kia Stinger GT2.
The ZF9 sucks so badly that I'm actively trying to trade out of my TLX right now even though it's a lease. Even with my jerry-rigged fix of resetting the ECU, I should not be having to adjust my life to the transmission. I've owned over 20 cars in my 30 years of driving and I've never had to think this much about automatic transmission function. In fact, I've never had to think about automatic transmission function *at all*, which indicates an automatic fail from me. The only way I'm keeping the car at this point is if the Type S is really coming in 2019, and if so, I'll try to hang on. But right now, I'm looking at the Genesis G70 or its bigger cousin, the Kia Stinger GT2.
Till then drive in in manual mode. TLX should've come with a 6MT option, IMO! But a good auto would be nice! Sad because it's a nice car and I still can't help but like it!
Last edited by Midnight Mystery; 12-27-2018 at 12:49 AM.
Reason: Goid
The ZF9 sucks so badly that I'm actively trying to trade out of my TLX right now even though it's a lease. Even with my jerry-rigged fix of resetting the ECU, I should not be having to adjust my life to the transmission. I've owned over 20 cars in my 30 years of driving and I've never had to think this much about automatic transmission function. In fact, I've never had to think about automatic transmission function *at all*, which indicates an automatic fail from me. The only way I'm keeping the car at this point is if the Type S is really coming in 2019, and if so, I'll try to hang on. But right now, I'm looking at the Genesis G70 or its bigger cousin, the Kia Stinger GT2.
You had to have known prior to purchase that this wasn’t the best automatic transmission, particularly when it comes to performance driving. The complaints here on the forum (as well as mentions in auto mags/videos) have been coming fast and furious since the TLX V6 hit the marketplace.
As I understand it, the difficulties encountered with the software interfacing with the ZF9 transmission is what drove the decision to go with a new, in-house developed transmission for the 2019 Acura RDX. It's been suggested that the FMC will similarly use an in-house developed transmission.
As I understand it, the difficulties encountered with the software interfacing with the ZF9 transmission is what drove the decision to go with a new, in-house developed transmission for the 2019 Acura RDX. It's been suggested that the FMC will similarly use an in-house developed transmission.
The 9ZF was always a filler till the in-house trans was ready. Never had any real long term future with Acura.
The ZF9 sucks so badly that I'm actively trying to trade out of my TLX right now even though it's a lease. Even with my jerry-rigged fix of resetting the ECU, I should not be having to adjust my life to the transmission. I've owned over 20 cars in my 30 years of driving and I've never had to think this much about automatic transmission function. In fact, I've never had to think about automatic transmission function *at all*, which indicates an automatic fail from me. The only way I'm keeping the car at this point is if the Type S is really coming in 2019, and if so, I'll try to hang on. But right now, I'm looking at the Genesis G70 or its bigger cousin, the Kia Stinger GT2.
Yeah I'll be looking at an used GS before I go to Hyundai jmo
I just drove the V6 SH-AWD as well as the FWD V6 one more time. I did not notice any issues with the transmission but I am not an expert. When I compare the car to my 335i, the car LAGS torque and power. Is it the transmission? Is it the power? It is not going to smoke my car or any of these twin turbo cars out there. Having said that, I do not expect the car to drive the same. The comfort level makes up for some of these shortcomings I also had a chance to drive a 2016 GS350 which has a similar v6 to the TLX and again, the car did not have the power/torque either. I expect years of reliability when purchasing an Acura product. These is the 5th and perhaps the last year of this car. One would expect that this is the best model for this car. The discounts are very attractive, which probably does not help those of you trying to sell.
I honestly think it comes down to your driving habits and preferences and what is truly important to you. If the next TLX version "Non S type" shifts as well as my 8 speed DCT in my 2018 Elite ASpec, I might even stepping up on the power grid, especially if has a reasonably thrifty turbo 4.
No car is perfect of course and the transmission and engine are the most important aspects. The engines (both 4 and 6 cylinder) are excellent. The 9 speed transmission as has been stated before is now the best it can be and for most drivers it is fine. Each potential purchaser must take an extended test drive to determine if the ride is suitable for their driving style. And yes the incentives on the TLX enable many to get a price that is comparable to cars with a lot fewer amenities.
You had to have known prior to purchase that this wasn’t the best automatic transmission, particularly when it comes to performance driving. The complaints here on the forum (as well as mentions in auto mags/videos) have been coming fast and furious since the TLX V6 hit the marketplace.
I never thought I'd be "that guy", and I didn't have any issues initially, thinking that the transmissions were fixed. But...here I am. It's too bad, too, as the car is otherwise pretty good. I just bought a Sprint Booster to see whether it can make some kind of difference as far as throttle response. We'll see.
Been driving my manual V wagon this week to ease the frustration. Aaaaaaaaaah.....sooooo gooooood....
I've had my 2019 V6 ASpec for a week now. And i come from experience, i had an early 2015 TLX AWD V6, and currently own a 2017 MDX. I agree, the early 2015 i had did have a crappy transmission. Hard shifts, laggy, dead 2 second delays. But this 2019 that i have now has totally amazed me. IMO, it's actually quite responsive, smooth, and i've yet to experience any harshness, or jerkyness, or lag. My 2017 MDX was far better than my 2015 TLX, and now this 2019 actually shifts nicer than my MDX does. It just shows the progress they have made from 2015 -2019 with the application of this ZF9spd. I am happy to say that my tranny is smooth, responsive and doesn't bother me one bit.
I've had my 2019 V6 ASpec for a week now. And i come from experience, i had an early 2015 TLX AWD V6, and currently own a 2017 MDX. I agree, the early 2015 i had did have a crappy transmission. Hard shifts, laggy, dead 2 second delays. But this 2019 that i have now has totally amazed me. IMO, it's actually quite responsive, smooth, and i've yet to experience any harshness, or jerkyness, or lag. My 2017 MDX was far better than my 2015 TLX, and now this 2019 actually shifts nicer than my MDX does. It just shows the progress they have made from 2015 -2019 with the application of this ZF9spd. I am happy to say that my tranny is smooth, responsive and doesn't bother me one bit.
Give it time, I was very pleased when I got my 19 after dealing with my 15 and while it was much better it will remind you it is a a 9ZF every so often.
It's definitely the weak link. The TLX trans doesn't lag all the time but every once in a while under certain conditions you hit the gas and the car does nothing for a 2-3 seconds before it finally downshifts. You could very well test drive it and never feel the lag. I experience it the most when going 40 to 50 mph and then slow down to 15 to 20 mph to make a turn and hit the gas. Do that 10 times on a test drive and if you don't feel it then or are fine with the behavior it should not be a concern.
Have owned many cars and the TLX is the only one where I ever gave a single thought to the transmission behavior. It makes me wonder who Acura uses to test drive these cars before bringing them to production. I would expect with Ikeda back in charge at Acura that the next Gen will be much improved. He did what he could with the current model mid cycle but the next gen will be all his. Hopefully he hits a home run like he did with the 3rd gen TL.
This is EXACTLY what happens in my 16 SH-AWD. 95% of the time, the transmission is quite nice. The scenario you describe happens to me when I'm slowing down on a curved on-ramp to get onto the highway. Brake to slow down, then hit the gas to merge... nothing. Unfortunately this happens at a critical moment in driving. I can replicate it as it happens in two places on the drive to and from work... every... time. It's actually unnerving and potentially dangerous.
For the first year, I had the hard shifts in low gears, but that seems to have gone away.
I drove a 2018 and the transmission shifts just fine. Sport mode seems better than Normal. It's lazy in Normal mode but that's pretty common with so many gears nowadays.
What you really need to pay attention is the vibration issue.
This is EXACTLY what happens in my 16 SH-AWD. 95% of the time, the transmission is quite nice. The scenario you describe happens to me when I'm slowing down on a curved on-ramp to get onto the highway. Brake to slow down, then hit the gas to merge... nothing. Unfortunately this happens at a critical moment in driving. I can replicate it as it happens in two places on the drive to and from work... every... time. It's actually unnerving and potentially dangerous.
For the first year, I had the hard shifts in low gears, but that seems to have gone away.
What you are describing is one of very common "side effects" of transmissions with too many gears. I call them side effects because some people don't get them, they can be improved but hard to resolved. And the only way to get rid of them is to sell the car
As for a reference, Inifniti had the exact same problem when they first release their 7AT in 2009. I know it because I had one. Here is the link to the HUGE old thread starting in 2010 and is still going:
Yep, as I mentioned Ive been driving this on and off for the past couple of weeks and have experienced this characteristic on several occasions. (15 Q50S below) But I think general criticism of the TLX transcends the ZF to some degree.
I never thought I'd be "that guy", and I didn't have any issues initially, thinking that the transmissions were fixed. But...here I am. It's too bad, too, as the car is otherwise pretty good. I just bought a Sprint Booster to see whether it can make some kind of difference as far as throttle response. We'll see.
Been driving my manual V wagon this week to ease the frustration. Aaaaaaaaaah.....sooooo gooooood....
Traffic was heavy, I needed to turn left without a traffic light to help me, so, when I saw a break in the line of cars coming the other way I used the brakes just a little to time the turn right and slow down to a safer speed, then cut left and OMG WTF!?!!!! - it felt like the engine had almost turned off, power was cut by at least 70% and I have got to get out of the way before this oncoming car hits me in the side and possibly hurts my 10 year old daughter sitting in the back. If I was the kind of guy that got in fights, I'd wanna go to Acura and punch whoever was the idiot that programmed this car in the face.
I think the reason why it caught me so bad this time was that I'm in a dealer loaner, and while my TLX does this a little, it was worse in this car, and, I hadn't turned off Traction Control the way I always do by default when I get into my own TLX.
They seriously should be sued for making such a stupid design choice.
My TLX is the 2018 V6 Tech PAWS model and, while it does cut the power a little more than I'd like (only when slowing down and turning, then needing to accelerate to merge/get out of the way) it's not a problem at all when Traction Control is turned off, so I'm thoroughly happy with my TLX. I don't have any vibration issues or any other transmission issues and I've owned it a little over a year, driven it on several road trips half-way across the country in addition to my everyday use around town - I drive a lot with my kids going to two different schools in opposite directions from my house.
I just drove the V6 SH-AWD as well as the FWD V6 one more time. I did not notice any issues with the transmission but I am not an expert. When I compare the car to my 335i, the car LAGS torque and power. Is it the transmission? Is it the power? It is not going to smoke my car or any of these twin turbo cars out there. Having said that, I do not expect the car to drive the same. The comfort level makes up for some of these shortcomings I also had a chance to drive a 2016 GS350 which has a similar v6 to the TLX and again, the car did not have the power/torque either. I expect years of reliability when purchasing an Acura product. These is the 5th and perhaps the last year of this car. One would expect that this is the best model for this car. The discounts are very attractive, which probably does not help those of you trying to sell.
I think the only people who would complain about the current ZF9 transmission (2018 and newer) are people who want to drive hard because it's fun. If what you want is a nice car that's quiet, comfortable, looks beautiful, drives smooth without feeling "like a boat", and you don't want to drive like a kid who's trying to impress his friends (I do) - then I think the TLX is a great option.
When I'm driving my kids around town, when I'm going on road trips, when I'm driving just to get somewhere and not thinking about pushing the performance to get my heart racing faster, well I think the TLX is a fantastic car.
That's 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time I wish the car was a little lighter, I wish the suspension was a little stiffer, I wish it was RWD, I wish it had more torque down low, and I wish it had brakes that grabbed so hard that it HURT to stop fast.
Every time I think these things, and I realize that I can't afford a BMW M2, I also realize that, if they released an ILX with the 2.0T engine (even if it's not MT and RWD) I would be so happy I could cry with just these three upgrades: stiffer suspension, summer performance tires, and grippier brake pads (I don't GAF about dust, give me BUCKETS of dust, if it means I can stop real fast).
Then I realize, most of life involves compromise and the TLX is a pretty good set of compromises (for me, w/2 kids and lots of errands to run every day) and probably for you too, who wants a nice car that's more comfortable than your current BMW, but still drives "pretty well" - you've done your homework test driving it more than just a little and it sounds like you liked it. I suppose wish that I'd gotten the SH-AWD version instead of the P-AWS that I got, but, you know what they say: "the grass is always greener..."
I think the only people who would complain about the current ZF9 transmission (2018 and newer) are people who want to drive hard because it's fun. If what you want is a nice car that's quiet, comfortable, looks beautiful, drives smooth without feeling "like a boat", and you don't want to drive like a kid who's trying to impress his friends (I do) - then I think the TLX is a great option..."
I have to disagree, the tranny can act up under some normal situations such as a rolling stop, happens to me often enough.
Currently driving an 18 Odyessey with the ZF-9, it's not bad but feels a little weird, like the pedal requires some pushing to make it go at normal speeds, or how 1st feels like it slips a little from a stop. Floor it and if flies!
I can't imagine how fast a TLX would be weighing nearly 1K lbs less and with 10 more hp!
Almost immediately after release, threads started about ZF9s in 18 Odysseys. You can search for "transmission" in the 18+ forum and grab some popcorn. Disclaimer: I don't drive an 18 Ody with a ZF9, but they use some of the exact same language we do to describe their ZF9s. Honda says they continue improving the application of the ZF9; however right there in the forum, you STILL see things like hard shifting, clunky shifting when cold, slipping, unpredictability and very slow downshifting when passing or merging. People are avoiding LX, EX and EX-L simply because the ZF9 or going to other carmakers. https://www.odyclub.com/forums/81-20...on-issues.html https://www.odyclub.com/forums/81-20...nsmission.html
I know this is a TLX forum, but I feel it valuable to draw parallels in behavior of the ZF9 across all platforms considering there are so many complaints regardless of make or model. It simply doesn't perform like any manual or any 4-, 5- or 6-speed auto anyone has ever driven over the last 4 decades. I personally would avoid any model with it and I hope this hesitant, constantly hunting atypical behavior doesn't become the new norm in the quest for better gas mileage.
Almost immediately after release, threads started about ZF9s in 18 Odysseys. You can search for "transmission" in the 18+ forum and grab some popcorn. Disclaimer: I don't drive an 18 Ody with a ZF9, but they use some of the exact same language we do to describe their ZF9s. Honda says they continue improving the application of the ZF9; however right there in the forum, you STILL see things like hard shifting, clunky shifting when cold, slipping, unpredictability and very slow downshifting when passing or merging. People are avoiding LX, EX and EX-L simply because the ZF9 or going to other carmakers. https://www.odyclub.com/forums/81-20...on-issues.html https://www.odyclub.com/forums/81-20...nsmission.html
I know this is a TLX forum, but I feel it valuable to draw parallels in behavior of the ZF9 across all platforms considering there are so many complaints regardless of make or model. It simply doesn't perform like any manual or any 4-, 5- or 6-speed auto anyone has ever driven over the last 4 decades. I personally would avoid any model with it and I hope this hesitant, constantly hunting atypical behavior doesn't become the new norm in the quest for better gas mileage.
It's a mystery to me why the new Passport has the 9 speed in it and not the new 10 speed. I'm guessing the next gen TLX will get the 10 speed from the RDX - might be worth the wait.
12-21-2018, 08:28 AM
It's too bad, too, as the car is otherwise pretty good. I just bought a Sprint Booster to see whether it can make some kind of difference as far as throttle response. We'll see.
