TacoBello

Wait- there's an SH-AWD Accord out there and I don't own it?!

kurtatx

There is one. It's called TLX

Mr Hyde

Definitely don't see a RWD sedan coming down the pipe, Acura has made it clear like Audi that FWD & AWD would be their platforms going forward.

Don't recall if the RLX had mules with wider tracks to accommodate the Hybrid powertrain.... That could be an option.

Since there is talk of a more powerful option, then maybe this car has been widened front and rear to accommodate.

ZipSpeed

Yeah, the larger dimensions are hopefully there to accommodate wider tires and a turbo powertrain (with hopefully, hybrid tech).

CaliAtenza

I'm assuming this is why the NSX is also being used as a benchmark; cause of the hybrid tech.

TacoBello

You gotta keep price point in check. A V6 Turbo and sport hybrid tech in a mid sized and mid priced sedan doesn't seem possible.

Just because there was an NSX there doesn't really mean much.

ZipSpeed

Maybe a 48V mild hybrid system to help eliminate the turbo lag? Those are supposedly a lot more cost effective than a full fat hybrid system.

F23A4

jhb31

Why do people want a hybrid for the performance model? I prefer a straight turbo model or anything with a great trans and hp anywhere north of 340. Plus a hyrbrid system just adds even more cost. To me just more stuff to go wrong. I would get a prius if I wanted a hybrid. You have to figure a type S is gonna come with a sticker in the upper 40's. I think if they go much higher they are going to really limit how many they can sell. I would be interested to know the breakdown of 07/08 type S vs TL sales for those years overall. Just from my own observations of all the ones I saw it must have been less than 5% of total sales and back then they didn't have a low cost 4cyl to choose from like they do now (although there were a lot of 04/05 TL's around too.

I do hope they dump the push button shifter and bring back the lever with the slap shift manual mode that actually slows down when you downshift rather than speeding up. Maybe get rid of the 4 driving modes for the type S and just make a car that shifts like the 3rd gen type S but even better to the point that you never even think about the trans and how it shifts as it operates as you would expect. Oh well, they need to hit a home run on the next generation if the want to gain market share back. Also a digital dash has to be included. The civic has had one for years now. Surely they can design a higher end one.

NBPaspec

That's the future, get used to it.

toneymack

My guess is they are testing the 2.0T in the TLX pictured in the back and the 3.0TT V6 with the TLX in front with the wheel flairs.

ZipSpeed

Indeed. If I can get performance AND improved fuel efficiency, what's not to like? Downside is complications go up, possible repair costs go up.

holografique

Because in this case, it's referring to the Sport-Hybrid drivetrain that's in the RLX / NSX. Which from everything I've read, and tested for a short period myself (2016 RLX Sport-Hybrid) it's incredibly powerful, very fast, and that's just with the combined 377hp on the RLX. Can't imagine what it would be like in something more than that, let alone the new NSX.

I personally think a TLX with the SH-SH-AWD drivetrain of the RLX/NSX would be freagin awesome. Priced (and optioned correctly), I'd be all over it. That is...as soon as they redo that interior

Yikes

jhb31

Originally Posted by jhb31
Why do people want a hybrid for the performance model?

QUOTE=NBPaspec;16193836]That's the future, get used to it.[/QUOTE]

Heard the same thing about 3D tv's. Nobody has a crystal ball. Hybrids have been around for over a decade. Outside of the toyota not too widely adopted nor sought after.

jhb31

Want a type S for under 50k or a hybrid type S for 60k+? I think most people would be happy with a turbo model with 0-60 at sub 7 seconds with plenty of pull still going. Just my opinion but most TLX buyers aren't looking for 5 second times as they just want a bit more than what the TLX does now. Those that want more the NSX is already available. The last type S was very popular and it was roughly 30 hp over the standard tl but had a larger engine and better gearing. I don't recall anyone complaining that it was too slow and as time went by it turned into a highly sought after used car even a decade later.

Speed_Racer

I don't see how it could possibly add a $15,000 premium for the SH-SHAWD / Type S option to a TLX ASpec for example. They could still keep it under or close to $50k with the hybrid system. It's a $3500 premium in the MDX. Add another $2000-$3000 for the Type S package like they've done in the past and you're right about $50k. You mention Toyota and Prius comparing this hybrid system, it's not really like that from what I understand. It does give you better gas mileage but it's more tuned for performance than getting every drop out of the tank. I mean, it's only getting 28mpg with 377 hp on the RLX and 26mpg with 321hp on the MDX. That's not really nothing to write home about. It makes sense to me to have SH-SHAWD as a big differentiator between the Honda and Acura line. We all see how the Accord leap frogged the TLX in tech with it's last release. As others have pointed out the only negative thing about the hybrid drive system is the added complexity and possible long term reliability.

pyrodan007

I wouldn't worry too much about reliability. Hybrid systems are pretty well put together, and may extend the engine life due to less work performed by it. What MAY be a problem is battery life vs performance down the road.
I would love to get one, but only if the premium is only 5k or less. The added weight would can annoy some purists. Some hybrids have small battery packs, which is not really interesting either for gas savings. For example, the Q50 hybrid.

BEAR-AvHistory

Hybrid issue is cost. That said, with proper package tuning (performance oriented) its a good way to get performance & still make the cafe numbers.

Mak P

Make a hybrid with a twin turbo v6 like the NSX and we won't be talking about performance

Alban Rama

Hell no, I want a M3/4 killer ! less than 5 second 0-60 if theres a 3.0T

TacoBello

Mr Hyde

That would smoke an E30 M3 in a straight line, and nothing else.

TacoBello

ZipSpeed

This. I rather Acura rebuild their brand image first before they build a vehicle that can devour a M3. And honestly, there's nothing wrong remaining in the entry level price bracket IMO. For the price of a fully loaded Acura, you're looking at the middle of the road equipped German equivalent. I want to have my cake and eat it too.

high-cam

First post
Cautiously optimistic as to where Acura will go over the next couple of years. I think it's all but a given we'll see the combination of a turbo v6 with esh-awd. I think the torque fill, torque vectoring, and increased fuel economy with the electric motors actually make more sense here than in the NSX. 400+ HP, 30 mpg, at 55k would be amazing imo and doable. If they go the Audi route with a longitudinal engine arrangement, I think they may have something special on their hands. But if they go the RDX route and essentially just beef up a CRV... well.

Should be fun.

18TLXAspec

You may save on fuel for quite some time initially, but if you keep it too long and are unfortunate enough to need to replace the hybrid battery outside of warranty it's likely that all of that savings may as well have been tossed to the wind.

ZipSpeed

True enough. Personally, I'm more interested in the performance aspect of the Sport Hybrid system as Acura tunes it more for performance. Any fuel savings is a bonus on the side! Either way, I think most folks will be happy if they can give us a TLX around 380 to 400 hp, whether it comes from a single V6T or if a hybrid system is tacked on. That said, there's not a lot of performance hybrid systems on the market, and Acura could potentially carve out a niche for themselves if they do it right.

jhb31

I really think they can build a Type S variant that gets decent mileage and delivers nice performance. I don't think there is much demand in the Acura market for an M3 killer. I considered going with an M3 but the ride is very harsh and the price tag is high and I wouldn't think of it as an everyday driver. I also don't want a hybrid as I kept my type S for 10 years and the maintenance cost was near nothing with strictly gasoline engine. A V6 turbo paired with a nice trans will be plenty fast. Heck the type S was not short of power with sub 300hp although the weight was probably less. While I don't know 0-60 times on it but mine felt way faster than the TLX and this link had it at 5.1 seconds. I don't think it was that quick but engine performance has improved since a decade ago.

high-cam

alpha0

If Acura can use 48v mild hybrid with 3.0t v6, what is need for sport hybrid? Bigger battery adds weight and if there is no rear differential (as in current sport hybrid), limited torque can be applied to rear wheels.

high-cam

The two motors powering the rear wheels work independently from the engine, and also independently of eachother. The motor on the outside wheel can speed up, providing torque for instance, while the inside wheel can slow down, rotating the rear simultaneously storing energy in the battery. Yes, the system adds weight, but its all out back which I assume would help with traction out of a corner in an otherwise front-heavy car. As far as 48v goes, the main performance gain I've seen comes with the addition of a motor generator which Sport Hybrid already has between the engine and transmission. You can look at how it compares on the MDX.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...h-model-review

NBPaspec

Actually the MDX hybrid option really only adds $1500 to a SH-AWD model which is quite amazing to me. ($3500 is the cost over a 2wd model) I'm not sure why there's not more out there. The mdx hybrid gets so much better city mileage, not to mention it's faster than the standard model, all for $1500. What's not to like?

alpha0

I understand, but rear batteries can provide only limited power (75 hp or so) and if V6 turbo product 350 hp, rear wheel will have less than 20-25% of total power; not sure how driving dynamics will be but many reviewers feel the same even in case of NA V6.

Christopher.

All this talk about hybrids, "beating the M4", what not - if all they did to the TLX was replace the 3.5L NA V6 with a 3.0L TT V6, well I'd fucking jump around and hoot for joy.

There are only two other things I'd even want them to improve: tighter turning radius and a firmer "sport" suspension (preferably able to switch "modes" electronically between quiet comfort mode and sport mode).

Of course, rear wheel drive would be nice, but, I won't hold my breath on that one.

jimbob357

csmeance

Acura lost a ton of money with the MDX and ZDX with the electromagnetic shocks from delphi. I believe they may be in the new Hybrid MDX but acura had to pay out thousands in repair bills for struts that would repeatedly fail @ nearly $600-900 each!

It'd be nice to have the 3.0TT engine and still an NA engine option too!

TacoBello

Proof they lost money? If they outsourced the parts to Delphi, they very well may have had an agreement that Delphi takes the hit for any failures and not Acura. I mean, why would Acura be on the hook for a third party part failing?

Acura takes the initial hit upfront, but I suspect they try and recoup those costs. Unless they're really bad at making business deals.

Also, I'm guessing that's the consumer price for those parts. Acura for sure did not pay retail.

jimbob357

jimbob357