2012wagon

What should the price be, you think, around Jan/FEb for the ASpec?

pyrodan007

Very good question. I think 5k off MSRP is already very close to invoice. If anything lower, none of the dealers will be making any money on TLXs. That begs the question ... what was the point of the MMC?

Alex Duhovnik

It was for lease 36/12K, $551/month with $551 due, offered by Ralph Kolius Sales Manager at CHEVY CHASE ACURA

2012wagon

Well the ILX and RLX has serious discounts. Would the TLX discounts, reach that high?

I imagine the manufacturers help the dealers out, no? That way they don't lose money?

Honda430

Thanks for for the info. Unfortunately I’ve already purchased an A-spec back in June. I just wanted to get some specifics because the info was so at odds with the situation we have in Southern Cali. While there are few SHAWD A-specs for sale in these parts there are almost 150 FWD models available. Appears it may have been a better strategy for Acura to limit the model to AWD and provide the full color palette for both the exterior and interior. I would have loved either white or BCP with the espresso interior.

wlkeel

Please help me here. If you lease a car you don't purchase it, you sort of rent it. If you buy a car, you have a purchase price,
Is there some coordination between some price listed in the lease paperwork and what I can buy the car for???? If so, what is the correlation?

Thanks

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

There is a residual price if you want to purchase the car at the end of your lease.

You will know what that residual will be before you sign..

2012wagon

Does Acura negotiate on residuals at lease end, like some other manufacturers?

Alex Duhovnik

No, it's fixed by the AFS. For example, now residual is 57% from MSRP (including destination) for 36/12K lease.

slimm1469

When I was in the car business, leases were at full MSRP. This was with Mercedes & Volvo. The dealer has to balance MSRP vs. 'residual value,' what the car is worth at the end of the lease. It varies by brand and dealer. These are questions you should ask the dealer, how are you pricing the car inside the lease, full MSRP? What's the residual value of the car at lease end? You can negotiate the first but not residual value since it's a projected number.

wlkeel

Thanks for the info on residual price, but some folks seem to be talking about a "Purchase Price" shown on the lease paperwork. Is this price correlated in any way with what I can buy the car for in cash?

Edit: just saw slimm's post. That helps, but my question still remains

svtmike

I think they need a halo car that is more attainable than an NSX. And a better product in general. If I were working on the next TLX, I would have BMW and Audi squarely in my sights as the segment benchmarks.

Go for updated but classic looks, beautiful proportions, fully modern interiors and tech, outstanding ergonomics, and a wider range of drivetrain options including something that goes toe-to-toe with M and S models.

pyrodan007

The engines have got to go, and similar to Infiniti they cannot be shared with Honda to show exclusivity. Tech needs a colossal upgrade, Nvidia/3D graphics is a must since it's painful to look at now. AWD everywhere has to be mandatory, no matter engine or transmission. Manual would be interesting, many people here want it!

SergeyM

I believe you are wondering how a sale price when a car is bought can differ from a sale price when a car is leased. Normally a sale price is a sale price regardless who the buyer is - a customer in case of a "buy"or Acura FS in case of a "lease". From time to time though a manufacturer wants to promote leases of a particular model, so they offer some additional money for a lease. E.g. at the moment there are $3,000 support from Acura for TLX A Spec lease.
Assuming that there is no cash for "buy", sales price for a lease should be $3,000 less than for a buy. AT least from a customer point of view. The dealer could not care less who the money comes from a buyer or Acura.

BEAR-AvHistory

Current leases are based on the selling price not MSRP. The better sale price & money factor deal you can negotiate the lower the monthly. Residual is still a fixed % to you but can be changed by the financing people at any time.

nfrs2000

Thanks! I was looking to purchase, however have not had any good prices offered in the DMV. Im hoping for a sub 40k price for a AWD ASpec.

2012wagon

Used a spec


Certified Pre-Owned 2018 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 9-AT SH-AWD with A-SPEC SH-AWD V6 4dr Sedan w/Technology and A-SPEC Package in Bridgewater #P12331 | Bill Vince?s Bridgewater Acura

Sloppy305

Now we are talking!!! Excellent find! Thank you!

39k for a SHAWD with less than $1000 miles? That's music to my ears. If it had the red interior I would've made an offer immediately.

Thanks for sharing. It's good to know these finds are out there.

2012wagon

you are welcome


i am sure you will see plenty of these soon

Greg D

There won't be too many of these used finds right now. I know this dealership well and these 3 used ones they have were Acura corporate/demo cars that went to local dealers once they were done with them. Most of the used ones you see for sale right now are the same.

kurtatx

You had me until you said "all AWD". While I think most Acuras should be AWD and Acura should push AWD more, most Audi A4s sold are FWD, so not necessarily ALL AWD.

TacoBello

I'd love to see this too, but given Acura's overall sales numbers, I don't see this being attainable. Specifically the "wider range of drivetrain options and something that goes toe-to-toe with the M and S models". Right now, Acura needs to dig themselves out of the 6 foot deep hole in the ground they're currently in the bottom of, trying to look up. If the 2G TLX was a relative success, I could see Acura making it up to the level you mentioned by the 3G TLX. Unfortunately, car stigmas die hard and people likely aren't going to start choosing Acura Type-S's over M's any time soon.

Buuuut.. in order to make it there by the 3G TLX, Acura would have to develop two solid gens of the car... something like the latest Accord improvement from the previous gen (not talking about the looks ) Bigger, yet lighter overall. Plenty of tech. Plenty of potential. A nicely executed interior, etc. If Acura gives us another mediocre attempt at the TLX for the 2G, I foresee that company dead within 5 years. Especially if Honda is refusing to give Acura some slack and keeps them as a parts bin company. The MDX and RDX aren't enough to carry the brand and all the people it employs, it's suppliers, the ungodly amount that goes into R&D, etc.

I get the feeling that when Ikeda showed up into the leading role at Acura, Acura was already well aware of the position they were in... even though they wouldn't dare say a negative word to the press. It doesn't help that Acura's development cycles are slow. Likely due to company size and profits. So we wait and wait and get bored and move on.

pyrodan007

I believe all Audi A4s sold in Canada are AWD. Many companies are doing the same, Acura needs follow. Especially when the SH-AWD system is one of the best ... yet it's never shown in their ads. A real shame, would be a true selling point instead of the tired 'look at me race!' visuals.

BEAR-AvHistory

This is why they can't compete with the premium car companies with there current strategy lacking true product differentiation from the Accord. The up-scales share many basic product parts like bodies in white, example 4xx & M4, but the hardware that makes an M or an Audi RS. Merc AMG is not shared to any major degree.

When someone says a 440 with a JB4 performance upgrade to similar horsepower is not an M4 they are 100% correct. A back to back drive will quickly dispel an notion of equality. Right now the overall performance advantage over the Accord is negligible & outside of AWD they TLX is behind on features. This going behind the Accord will occur every new Accord generational release because the TLX next generation follows two to three years later in the cycle.

TacoBello

to add to what I said earlier... the RLX and ILX are considered sales flops. The NSX, while being Acura's halo car, doesn't seem to be selling well either. Consider the amount they spent on building that manufacturing facility, the R&D, etc. Acura is now slashing 30k off the NSX price, to move them. To me that spells another monetary short fall for the company. The TLX sells okay still, but nowhere what Acura was likely hoping for (by combining the TSX and TL into one... and they're behind on those overall sales), as combining 1 + 1 did not equal 2 for Acura. It's more of 1 + 1 = 1.5, in terms of sales

I'm sincerely excited and interested in the 2G TLX. I'm hoping there is a half decent sport trim (not just a name and suspension tweaks, of the same system). BUT if it isn't an instant hit... man... I'd be surprised if Acura continued on, still full steam ahead. Even now, with their current offerings, it seems like they're firing on 4 of 6 cylinders. Cut more back from R&D... sales continue to drop.. eventual dismemberment of Acura, which is largely only an NA brand, with emerging markets elsewhere. Cut your loses and move on

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

In the US, the A4 has the Ultra version for all trim levels ( Premium, Premium Plus, and Prestige). They are about $4k cheaper than the quattro version.

I'm not sure if $30k price cut is across all dealerships. On NSXPrime, this seems to be a YMMV thing. One of the problems is that dealerships got greedy with the NSX. They brought in nearly fully loaded NSX that are around $200k rather than $150k. The $50k of "goodies" don't do anything to performance, other than the PCCB, which in real life don't really do much either unless you do many track days.

Another problem is that right now Acura has no brand pulling power. The NSX is awesome but without brand power, people would rather buy something else for the same money. It's sort of like Mercedes with the $350k SLR McLaren and subsequently the $220k SLS AMG. They are fine cars but people didn't feel like spending that much for a Mercedes. To me, it's an identity crisis. Mercedes got the business case right though, with the new AMG GT, starting at just $110k or so, and is selling decently well.

To me, it's more like the market isn't ready for a $150k-$200k Acura. Perhaps, if they didn't did the powertrain change, and stick with the J35 NA with hybrid for 400hp, and price it at $100k, that may have sold better?

txl2017

I like my TLX, but from Honda Corp's perspective, I almost feel that the Acura sedans are redundant to begin with. I doubt that they have made a lot of money considering the investment and pricing. They'd be better off focusing on Honda products plus may be MDX and RDX. Who knows? Maybe in a few years, there won't be any TLX/NSX/ILX any more.

pyrodan007

And that's the problem, anything over 50k in US and 70k in Canada (+tax) is considered ludicrous for an Acura. The materials aren't there, the outside is too polarizing, and the mechanics are a mess. Like I said before, they have as many transmission versions as they have car models. How can they save money if they can't even standardize their own shit ... Meanwhile, Honda is having a blast shopping for parts at discounted rates in the background. Wouldn't be surprised if a DCT appears down the line on automatic SI models ...

BEAR-AvHistory

The problem with the NSX is its not bringing home any manufactures championships in the two main race series it runs in. Its done well at Pikes Peak a race no one cares about except the people who race there & has won a few races in the sports car series.

All the hype was like the second coming of the Chaparral which had game changing tech in its time. The NSX had the tech but could not pull off changing the game.

People in that price range will buy a 911 for $200K because it either wins or is in the hunt when Corvette wins but without the allure of a McLaren or Ferrari the NSX is up against it if they don't win.

2012wagon

Owners of all the leased 911 (12-15 of them) in my neighborhood couldn’t name a single race the 911 has won or runs in

they buy it due to the Porsche brand name

they poo poo my loser Japanese and British Cars, as my loser self lowers their property value in the world of Astons and Porsches and Ferraris

svtmike

Your British cars aren't Astons? Poo poo.

But I agree the brand has a lot more to do with Joe Schmoe's perception of the car. But how do you build a brand? Winning races is certainly a facet of that. Especially a performance brand.

BEAR-AvHistory

Neither can my daughter but her 911 Carrera S4 did not cost $200K either. Ask buyers of the 911 Turbo S base price $190K Turbo S. Exclusive $257K or GT2RS $293K how the season went & you will get n excellent response. After Miata & BMW Porsche has one of the most active club racing bases in the US. Each year before the VIR Oak Tree grand prix the 911's are brought to our local dealer with the drivers for a meet & Greet. The invitation only event is well attended & the same groups of people at Porsche, StingRay, Jaguar & BMW will show up at the various makes Corrals at VIR for the races.


Wore my Tail Of The Dragon shirt instead of a BMW one to the event




Where do you think that Porsche gets is reputation from that your neighbors buy it for? Fuel economy?

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree. Selling performance is about winning. When you are selling a super car it better be super unless it has something else going for it. Aston are somewhat popular here & they do race in the GTLM series but interestingly the McLarens are the more popular British cars outside of Jaguar in our Cars & Coffee right now. Quite a few Ferrari's show up & my neighbors Lamborghini is one of 3 that attend. The rest usually about 200 cars will go from the exotics like GT-40's another race winner down to '32 Hot Rods. Big filler of the usual suspects, Corvette, Shelby, Mustang, Camaro, Dogde & the muscle car group. Event is on for tomorrow & will go over with some of the guys after our Triangle COBRA early morning coffee.

Last month had a fun pickup Thunder Run up 540 to the event with 2 Ferrari's, a Hellcat, my grandsons Genesis R-Spec Coupe, two COBRA's & my daughters 911. Lots of exhaust noise & phone pictures taken as we "WAZED" along in the outside lane of the 70MPH interstate.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I believe many Acura mechanical parts are shared with Honda too. The J series, the K series, the 9AT, the 6AT, the 6MT, in particular, are found in Honda's.

I guess only Honda has the numbers. I'd imagine the way they are making the ILX, TLX, RDX, and MDX won't be too expensive though? They are all based on Honda vehicles after all.

​​​​​​​
I don't know if it's really fair to talk about championships just yet. Didn't they just started entering to races this year or something. IIRC, they made their debut in Rolex 24 in late January. The #93 car was doing well, but with about an hour left. the damage from an earlier accident forced the car to retire. The other NSX did finish the race in 5th. I believe the consensus back then was that it was a pretty impressive performance given that it was the first race for a new car.

It would be nice to win right away but I personally don't think success will happen overnight.

txl2017

Wouldn't they have had to build separate production lines and factories anyway? Anyways, Honda Corp's core business is still Accord, Civic and Pilot I guess. They have less incentive to drastically re-design the Acura cars if it doesn't make sense money wise. I'd suggest people who don't like the current TLX to move on and find their love in other cars in its class or go for an Accord. I am sure Honda has had an earful of complaints, but they seem to be on their schedule in rolling out another generation of TLX.

BEAR-AvHistory

The NSX has been in competition since 2014 as HONDA factory cars in Japan in GT500 class of the Super GT series well under the US radar for two years before its public release here in 2016. The current race car is version 2. It was expected to be a killer in the two series it runs in during 2017. This year has the 5th place in one you mentioned, GTLM with production cars, but has not done much of note in the second higher modified class series.

Point is before they can build a legend they need to be consistent in getting to the podium. Unfortunately for whatever reason Acura marketing seems to believe they can advertise their way into successful performance product acceptance with either TLX or NSX without paying their dues by building on success.

TacoBello

There are quite a few NSXs out there for sale. Acura seems to even be missing their own target- they were looking to hit something like 650 NSXs per year, and last I looked, they were not on par to meet that.

Also, no one in their right minds would buy a TLX for 100k CAN. That's like expecting a Hyundai to sell for 85k. Sure, maybe they'll move some units. But overall, no one will continue to notice. As already mentioned, there's zero reason for the TLX to cross beyond the 70k threshold, here in Canada.

2012wagon

What do a spec cost in canada ?

pyrodan007

Honestly it's not too far off. When I was shopping, a fully loaded TLX Aspec AWD Elite/Advance, with tax and all, came to 61k CAN (including 1k off). God knows how much a Type S will cost when it comes out.

To answer 2012wagon about cost, depends on if I4 or V6 and which trim (Tech or Advance). A good range can be 43k to 53k + tax, minus discounts. Which I have no idea what they are right now.

2012wagon

What does a XSE camry cost in CAN?
What does a Accord 20T Touring cost in CAN?
Base price of a 911?

So I have some idea what 43-53K for a TLX compares to?

Appreciate it