boe_d

I can't speak for others but I'm feeling a brewing anger that they didn't seem to put any effort in from the sample pictures. I honestly believe they should stop the current design of the TLX completely - no fin on the back, no body kit, no new front grill. Start from scratch - sack the designer of the current tlx and their families, scorch the earth and start over. Putting a pretty bow on the elephant man isn't going to make him the prom queen. The list of grievances with the current TLX don't begin and end with the beak grill. The list is too extensive for an MMC. I understand it takes a few years to design a car from scratch but the writing has been on the wall far too long for an MMC.

Saintor

x2. There is nothing to understand; they are irrational.

pyrodan007

Very rational, I saw a 2017 MDX and I really can't say I love it or even like it. The 2017 A4 lost points for motor trend car of the year due to bland exterior and cheapish interior. But it got points for driving dynamics and mechanics. Bet you the 2018 TLX will not be on that list based on info so far. Won't win for looks either...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Around my neighborhood, there are quite a few 2017 MDX already. Gotta say they look a whole lot better in person than in pictures.

Granted, styling is VERY subjective. A good non-Acura example is Lexus. Some people find the spindle grille attractive, while some find them very ugly.

The weight difference between a RWD Q50 RS and RWD 340i is about 200lb.

However, the Q50 doesn't have the excellent 8AT from ZF.

Another comparo you can make is to another car in this class with 7-spd auto, the C450 AMG. The AMG is slightly lighter, and is rated at 362hp. With the help of its AWD system, it can do 0-60mph as fast as the Q50 RS. But after that, the Q50 RS is in a league of its own, as notable by the difference in 1/4 mile trap speeds - 108mph vs 112mph.

I think the TLX concept that came out in 2014 was reasonably well received. Some quotes when it was unveiled:

"This may be one of the few times in recent memory Acura has delivered on all this talk of "athletic proportions", "Dynamic this and that". LOVE IT. good job Acura!"

"I completely agree. I give it a 9 out of 10 from a pure design perspective. I love the side and back profile, but still wish for a change to the grille in the front. I'm cool with the overall pentagonal shape...just wish they could tone down the chrome like on the NSX."

"Less is certainly more in my opinion... After 6 years of a very busy front and rear end (even after the MMC) a more toned down, conventional rear end is a welcome sight. Overall, I think they got it right. "

"Agreed. This car is drop dead gorgeous. Good job Acura keep it up!"

The problem is that when it comes to the production version, Acura toned it WAY down - much larger wheel gap, much smaller and less attractive looking rims, well placed chrome bits were gone, etc.

IMO, the concept was on the conservative side but in a good way. It's a timeless, inoffensive design that is quite pleasant on the eyes. The production version however is just too bland. It's not ugly, but it's very boring.

nothome17

The emblem is too big, like a clock around a rappers neck.

Other than that, it is a Honda, so we assume it will last longer and be more reliable.

Though it does not measure up in the "gotta have it" department.

kurtatx

Right, and a new face doesn't change the blandness of the whole thing. I know it's an MMC, but the face is a step. Until we get the whole redesign, we don't know if it's a step in the right direction or not. The fully developed beak on the TLX fits the car it was on, this doesn't really fit at all.

boe_d

I thought I'd source my quotes -

"The tlx doesn't come close to the refined vibe offered by the BMW 3-seieries and the new Mercedes-Benz C-Class" "Combined with the schizophrenic dual-screen infotainment system and its anti-intuitive mix of hard and touch-screen controls, it adds up to a package that feels like it’s trying too hard to convince itself that it’s more than an Accord with a thicker, richer layer of frosting. Ultimately, Acura needs to step even further away from Honda by offering products that might compel buyers to shop Acura first and foremost, as it did in the brand’s heyday. If the TLX is the first step in that direction, it’s a baby step" Car and Driver 2014

" I’ll point out that wherever product planners wanted the TLX to land, in reality it’s handily outclassed by cars with more brand cachet like the Mercedes-Benz C300 (even with the I4 engine) and Lexus ES; in fact, for roughly the same money the Hyundai Genesis V6 absolutely runs luxury circles around the TLX." - Autoweek 2014

About the V6 " It uses an electronic shifter we first saw in the RLX, and it takes an eternity to engage drive, its shifts are clunky, and it's painfully slow to react to manual commands." Replacing the previous TL's sea of buttons is a touchscreen that works together with the Acura controller and a second screen. The multiple interfaces render the entire infotainment system confusing, made worse by illogical menus, inscrutable controls, and redundant displays. We suspect you'll get used to it over time, but the system is overly distracting and just a pain to use." - Road and Track 2014

"Styling was an especially sore point, as virtually every one of our editors expressed an indifferent opinion on the car's looks. One staffer, Dwight, noted that the TLX's appearance "does not create excitement," while another, Ben, called the vehicle's styling "lukewarm at best," noting in particular that the wheels on our Advance model looked "low-budget." Autotrader 2014

Civic2TSX

Agreed with all of the above! I really did not like the MDX in pics but I do like it a lot in person. I still think the shield looks more luxurious but I do like the grill on the MDX. I hated the Lexus spindle in pics and in person! I did love the pre-spindle GS from 2 years ago.

I'm trying to reserve judgement for the MMC TLX until I see it in person but so far from the spy pics, it's much uglier than the current TLX. It's not quite original 4G TL ugly but close. Let's see if any of that changes once we get to really see the car. Something tells me it's not going to change until 2020, if even then.

BEAR-AvHistory

The 12.6 & 12.7 340 are AWD. 340 performance 6MT slowest, 8ZF middle & 8ZF-AWD quickest. Actual weight list by BMW in the specs is the base car in the series before options, only way to tell the true weight with options is track scales. Don't know how Infiniti lists theirs. Is RED a no option car?

That said regardless of weight the 340 does very well overall in a run what you brung to the start line. Think we are getting close to a wrist slap for off topic.

Kense

The BMW does have a better transmission than the RS. The RS has several options available. The listed weight for the AWD RS is something like 4000 lbs. Back on topic real quick, Acura better do something performance wise or they should just become an SUV company.

nothome17

Hey.. it's great for consumers that want to lease. Great offers.

BEAR-AvHistory

Quick off topic. My old 335IS Coupe had a ZF 7DCT. That was a phenomenal transmission. It was/is normally a true M car option in the US. The 335is was a special performance model (2011-2013) & AFAIK the only non-M to get the trans as an option. They did 5000 Coupes & 5000 convertibles. They also kept the stronger N54 engine instead of the N55 that the regular 3 series used. Was a 13.0 @ 110mph 1/4 runner pure stock.

Back to the paid advertisements. I think the Acura Transmission problems have run their course, seems like almost zero complaint traffic on the 2016/17. Expect some of the delays caused pressure on them to get the car launched & forced them to release one that was not fully baked. In hind sight it might have been better for them to take the heat about slipping release dates & waiting till the issues were killed.

RDX10

My comment about the Accord hybrid wasn't to say it is a bad car, more to point out that a TLX hybrid would more likely use its' system rather than the real deal SH-SH-AWD system.

kevTL888

for those saying the longer Acura release info on the '18 TLX the more likely it'll get new powertrain, i don't agree. putting in a new motor on a Honda is huge news, i don't think even the usual tight lip Honda can seal this from the auto spies out there. so don't get your hopes up, it'll be just cosmetic changes. i'm doing anti-jinx here if you're not noticing LOL

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I'd be very very surprised if the changes for the 18 weren't already in design a few years ago. For the most part I'll bet they start on the MMC the day the new model was rolled out in Fall of 2015. Maybe some of the minor things can be tweaked a few months prior to the production line roll out - but not much.

For reference the movie A Faster Horse (available on Netflix) is pretty interesting - they go from design to production for a new rollout of a Ford Mustang. Well worth the watch to get an understanding of the whole process.

Home A Faster Horse

mapleloaf

Every day I enjoy looking at, sitting in, and driving my TLX. As for the MMC, I will reserve judgement until I experience it in person.

Cheers!

mk5

I talked to the Service Advisor yesterday while getting my A1 done on my 2015 2.4L TLX. We got to talking about the MMC and he told me the Acura rep had recently come to the dealership
to discuss the updates. According to him, the round exhaust model is going to be the Type S; he said they are expanding the TLX line and that there will be a Type S this year.

I asked if that meant Twin Turbos, Sport Hybrid, etc. and he did not know the specs. He said mid-year should be the announcement. Take that for what it is, but I believe the Type S will
come to fruition this year for the TLX.

Saintor

If so there gotta be a powertrain upgrade. I don't think that there was a Type S in the past without one.

TacoBello

I had a feeling it's coming. The question still remains as to what will be powering it.

While Acura won't sell a ton of Type Ss, simply due to price, I think it might have peoples eyes turning back to the brand again. More so than the NSX- don't get me wrong- the NSX is a nice car, but many people simply can't even aspire to get into one. It's beyond their means. A Type S is stretching their pockets a bit more, but much much much more attainable.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

If that's the case - that Type S is coming, the most likely engine is the 2.0T derived from the CTR. It's only a 2.0L 4-banger but it would still be way more powerful than any J series that Honda has. The front end should also a bit lighter with a smaller engine (despite being turbocharged).

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

I am anxious to see what they FINAL design is. I would be willing to trade in for a TypeS if it's all that and a bag of chips without the trans jerky jerky. I personally want the double screen to go away or at least have the top screen Navigation only. It is just too much going on (Bring back all the fun buttons to push) and I often find myself looking back up repeatedly to check traffic because I can't remember the button functions.
If its what a type s should be I'll be all over it

CaliAtenza

The other question is what transmission will mate with a supposed 2.0T?

kurtatx

It almost has to be the Honda DCT

Saintor

Zero chance that it will be a 2.0Toy.

Let the eurosnobs have them.

kurtatx

Seriously. Why would Acura want to keep up with the Germans and Lexus?

Saintor

Exactly.

RDX10

kurtatx

lol. I'll answer the question: Because the Germans and Lexus are eating Acura's lunch.

alpha0

I read that CTR with 2.0T can get 0-60 in about 5.7 seconds. Current TLX SHAWD with NA V6 has about same numbers. So same 2 liter turbo cannot get noticeable performance increase for heavier TLX. So why waste Type S brand for that product?

RDX10

Lol I don't even bother.

kurtatx

The question is whether or not that 2.0T can make more horsepower when mated with a SH-AWD where power can be sent to the rear wheels. Also, need to consider torque.

RDX10

How about Acura man's the hell up and starts offering real engines. Nearly every single one if it's competition has some form of forced induction V6, not some little shitty 2.0T. Lincoln has multiple twin turbo 6's in the lineup, so does infiniti, cadi is doing the supercharged thing, audi has that supercharged (I believe now turbocharged) 3.0l V6. We're over here in pansy daisy land talking about turbo 4 cylinder engines an exhaust tips.

boe_d

But that hasn't been Acura's focus in many many years. They've stopped focusing on developing nice looking cars, with more engine options or current dash tech or even nicely finished interiors. They aren't worried about Audi or BMW offering better driving experiences and they aren't worried about them and Lexus and Mercedes offering a far more refined finish. They had other things in mind when they put together the TLX.

kurtatx

So what are they aiming for, exactly?

boe_d

Excellent question. If I was cool enough to pull off checkered pants and a faux hawk I might be able to divine that for you.

TacoBello

You're looking at it wrong. The 2.0T in the CTR is currently tuned to live high in the rpm range, for track purposes. The CTR is made to be kept high in the rpm range, so low down power isn't as important. The TLX-S, I feel, would have a completely different tune on it. The beauty of turbo systems (regardless of what Saintor believes and ultimately talks smack about) is that all Honda has to do is retune the engine to give it the specs they'd like to see. Granted, there are physical limitations to what can be done, but I highly doubt Honda would keep the same CTR tune if the TLX-S came with that engine.

They would likely shoot for high torque early on, etc. To be able to blast off the line.

TacoBello

While that may have been true for the First gen TLX, it sounds like Jon Ikeda (and Acura as a whole) knows the sedans are suffering for the exact same reasons you mentioned. Thy really aren't competing with anyone. And if they're not competing, it gives people little reason to look towards them. It would be awhile before Acura could step it up with the big dogs- they continued to develop while Acura stayed stagnant- catching up is possible but it comes as a huge risk also, because they really don't know if people will buy. So they likely will take steps forward, but not huge ones.

And in in my mind, there's nothing wrong with that. Lexus didnt get to where they are today, just overnight. They've been taking steps with every gen they release. They also cater to a different part of the market- while they have sport offerings, they've never been interested in taking up BMW real estate. They cater to the softer suspensions, luxurious side, more than the sport side. Acura needs to figure out where they want to be and how long it will take to get there, then develop a plan to get them there. Once again, Ikeda admitted they were a bit lost. But figuring it out.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think the real problem is every few years they think where they want to be then a few years later change their corporate mind. Zero continuity of focus generation to generation.

alpha0

I agree they will tune the engine differently. I have doubt whether 2.0T can really compete with performance variants in the segment (340i, s4, c43, xe etc)? And if it cannot, should that vehicle be still called as performance variant of Acura?

mk5

I just can't see a 4 cyl being the centerpiece of a Type S variant, even a 300 hp-ish version. Gotta be a V6, maybe with forced induction.

That's my philosophy, Marty.