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What century are they planning to release the TLX-S? Just curious, is all.
honda normally announces everything they are working on. A couple years ago, they announced they were working on three new engines, well before they came out (1.5T, 2.0T, and I think a 1.0T for foreign markets). Same with their cars- they made it fairly well known there would be no Type S for the MMC for the TLX. I was secretly hoping they were just not saying anything about it, but that wasn't the case. No words meant no development.
I'm surprised to hear they are building a TT-V6 now. There's been no rumors about it. I'm also surprised they would make a TT-V6 available, since that's what powers the NSX. Not that they have anything in common, but as far as perception goes, it makes the halo car look a bit less special (not that I agree, but it seems Honda feels otherwise). I could see a V6T. But I dunno, either way, it'll be something like a 3.0L turbo, which really, is barely keeping up with the times. They're still several years behind in that regard.
Either way, I guess time will tell. I doubt a 3.5L TT V6 would happen... Too much stepping on the NSXs toes, even if the engines are completely different. Likely a 3.0L V6T. Maybe a 3.0L V6TT if we are lucky.
According to the guy that I spoke to, during my NSX ride along, it seems that Jon Ikeda wants to bring the performance back to the brand. It started with the NSX and continues with the return of the Type-S for the TLX. He didn't mention what engine would be used, but 400 hp is the goal. Whether that will be a V6-TT or a V6-T, remains to be seen.
Is the type s like a BMW m3 or benz amg price wise?
No. IMHO If they did a Type-S correctly it would be like a BMW M-Sport MPPK/MPE TT6 with 355hp. Possibly also like the preceding with the track package if it had a selectable real time suspension, steering, brakes & trans upgrades. Under $60K. Think a M or AMG competitor would be well outside any logical potential Acura price range $70/80K
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 04-19-2017 at 12:37 PM.
I've heard rumors of a Type S for the last five years, and look where we are.
Until Honda says it themselves, it's nothing but hearsay.
lol dude I know. I was simply replying to your post, where you said "there's been no rumors about it." Of course, they are rumors because Honda hasn't confirmed anything.....
Originally Posted by alpha0
And what does Honda/Acura get by keeping V6 turbo a secret? It is not as if rest of the world will try to copy them..They are the only ones without a 6 cyl turbo..
Let's say they do come out and confirm about V6 Turbo, what's gonna happen? Let me make some guesses:
"Oh why did they announce now when it's not gonna be in any cars until 2 years later?"
"Here we go, NSX 2.0 all over again, there will be delays and delays and more delays. Typical Honda and their clueless marketing"
"LOL nice job Honda. But you are already years late, and you telling us that the V6 turbo won't be out until 3 years later? LOL What a joke!"
"Typical Honda, all talk. Why not make them available first before talking? I will believe it when I see them available for sale"
Not saying that they should or should not announce any plans. But just showing what are some possible responses from people. Either way, they lose.
Originally Posted by RDX10
The reasons I don't see a TT V6 happening for Honda in the next 10 years is due to multiple inherent design issues. First off, the J-series is an archaic SOHC setup (these don't work well with turbos from what I understand). Second off unless Honda is moving to a RWD platform (never happening) no FWD platform will handle 400hp (though Ford is pushing 380lb/ft with the MKX in FWD trim too). Lastly there is no new V6 engine lineup in development for Honda right now.....so to complete my point. It is not happening.
It simply does not go along with Acura's mission. Yes they are moving towards sport, they however are using hybrid tech to acheive that. They still are too concerned with being green and tree hugging.
I don't know if it's correct to assume that if Honda goes turbo, they will do it with the J series? May be they will just start a new engine family?
You don't really need RWD platform for make 400hp+. Other than the R8, all Audi models are all FWD platforms with AWD as an option. The S8 Plus has no problem putting 600hp down.
How do we know for sure Honda does not have a new V6 engine under development? I doubt that they will say much until at least there are some working prototypes. The last time they made engine announcement, like the 1.0T, 1.5T, and 2.0T, they were pretty much available for media testing.
Also plans change often. Like the NSX, it changed from NA V6 J series to a bespoke turbocharged 3.5TT engine. Honda can make a V6 turbo engine and also combine it with hybrid tech.
Honda can make a V6 turbo engine and also combine it with hybrid tech.
The SH-SH-AWD is definitely one thing Acura can capitalize upon. Seeing that the NSX is outside the realm of affordability for plebs like me, a TLX Type-S with similar tech to the RLX/NSX would be the next best thing. 400-ish combined system horsepower with a decent tranny and good looks, and I'll sign up for the next TLX.
lol dude I know. I was simply replying to your post, where you said "there's been no rumors about it." Of course, they are rumors because Honda hasn't confirmed anything.....
Let's say they do come out and confirm about V6 Turbo, what's gonna happen? Let me make some guesses:
"Oh why did they announce now when it's not gonna be in any cars until 2 years later?"
"Here we go, NSX 2.0 all over again, there will be delays and delays and more delays. Typical Honda and their clueless marketing"
"LOL nice job Honda. But you are already years late, and you telling us that the V6 turbo won't be out until 3 years later? LOL What a joke!"
"Typical Honda, all talk. Why not make them available first before talking? I will believe it when I see them available for sale"
Not saying that they should or should not announce any plans. But just showing what are some possible responses from people. Either way, they lose.
I don't know if it's correct to assume that if Honda goes turbo, they will do it with the J series? May be they will just start a new engine family?
You don't really need RWD platform for make 400hp+. Other than the R8, all Audi models are all FWD platforms with AWD as an option. The S8 Plus has no problem putting 600hp down.
How do we know for sure Honda does not have a new V6 engine under development? I doubt that they will say much until at least there are some working prototypes. The last time they made engine announcement, like the 1.0T, 1.5T, and 2.0T, they were pretty much available for media testing.
Also plans change often. Like the NSX, it changed from NA V6 J series to a bespoke turbocharged 3.5TT engine. Honda can make a V6 turbo engine and also combine it with hybrid tech.
But you are overlooking 1 KEY difference between the FWD Honda uses and the FWD audi uses. One is transverse (therefore unequal length half shafts leading to TERRIBLE torque steer) and transverse transaxles are typically not as robust as longitudinal transmissions that have equal half axles and therefore much better control and robustness combined.
The one big hole in my whole argument is that lincoln has an AWD system in the MKZ and continental similar to SH-AWD system and has a 3.0TT engine with 400hp and 400lb/ft and it is doing great.
So this brings me back to my argument, Acura is too tree hugging to try this. IF a type S comes, it will be a hybrid not a TT V6:
^
"We felt that our v6 with 290 horsepower was, you know, a great engine to start with, and one of the things our customers wanted was the look to match that performance"
If only he had given the statement below, things would be a lot different around here...
"We felt that our look was, you know, a great look to start with, and one of the things our customers wanted was an engine to match that promise of performance"
That Shanghai TLX-L... it is quite possible they scavenged the RLX frame/drivetrain and fitted some stretched TLX panels on it. Well, that is one way to finally sell some RLXs
Geez.....while I appreciate the interview, get a couple of seconds showing the car and features on screen and the majority of the interview showing the Acura employee. Hopefully the drive video will be much better.
Archaic might be a bad choice of words but a SOHC is a cheap alternative that does not function as well as a DOHC set.
DOHC have been out since almost 30 years ago...so yes still using SOHC is somewhat archaic. It's not as bad as say OHV or anything like that but still didn't Honda pioneer DOHC, why are they still using SOHC?
Nice Really gives the car great proportions. Good balance to the eye. My grandson interned in Shanghai last summer & saw a lot of Acuras & Buicks.
haha that's what a few extra inches can do
Originally Posted by RDX10
But you are overlooking 1 KEY difference between the FWD Honda uses and the FWD audi uses. One is transverse (therefore unequal length half shafts leading to TERRIBLE torque steer) and transverse transaxles are typically not as robust as longitudinal transmissions that have equal half axles and therefore much better control and robustness combined.
The one big hole in my whole argument is that lincoln has an AWD system in the MKZ and continental similar to SH-AWD system and has a 3.0TT engine with 400hp and 400lb/ft and it is doing great.
So this brings me back to my argument, Acura is too tree hugging to try this. IF a type S comes, it will be a hybrid not a TT V6:
haha, no man, I'm not overlooking that difference as your post clearly said, " no FWD platform will handle 400hp. " I was merely just pointing that out.
Audi uses longitudinal FWD platform, which....is still a FWD platform. The point is that FWD platform can handle higher if needed. As you mentioned, going long + AWD is the key.
If they want to get more power, then they need to boost the V6. Either that, or somehow they can squeeze out way more power out of the electric hybrid system. The latter sounds more difficult though without adding substantially more weight.
DOHC have been out since almost 30 years ago...so yes still using SOHC is somewhat archaic. It's not as bad as say OHV or anything like that but still didn't Honda pioneer DOHC, why are they still using SOHC?
When the J series was developed, one of the key requirements was lightweight and compactness. It's also cheaper with less parts involved. In theory, there's also less inertia and more low end torque. The J series is one of the most compact V6's engine series in the world. SOHC had its limitations.
SOHC had its limitations. Over the years however, Honda managed to overcome some of these limitations with the J series. even though it's a SOHC design, it's packed with technologies that make it competitive against other non-boosted V6. When it comes to real world performance, fuel economy, smoothness, and reliability, we can't deny the J series is still competitive against its main competition.
Getting back to the original purpose of this thread haha
Found a couple Honda/Acura PR guys on Instagram and thought i'd share for those of you who aren't on social media. Coming from a 3G TL owner, I don't think the refresh is all that bad. I've definitely seen worse within the premium/luxury segment. Looks a lot more striking than the CLA, and more aggressive than the C-Class and some variants of the 3-Series. It's distinctive lol. Looks like a more natural successor to the 3G in my eyes.
The front-end is really growing on me. I might have to give up my 16 TLX for an A-Spec.
Lots of people don't like it. Hope it stays that way so they discount it like the current model. I think this is a major upgrade to the look and suspension changes/seat upgrades as well. I have the 2017 white and this 2018 Aspec to me is a huge upgrade on it looks wise. Many don't like the grill but I think it looks great and they didn't go crazy like lexus did. If anything I wish they would offered the espresso leather in the Aspec.
as a guy that has driven a v6 TLX on a few occasions, and daily drives something with substantially more HP...
there's really no need for more power than it currently has IMO in day to day driving, it's plenty fastquick.
Sure, bragging rights, showing off etc but really, more power would get away from the efficiency and reliability that the brand became famous for to begin with.
Not whoring themselves out might be what Honda is doing differently and maybe in the end, that'll make them victorious as a long standing reasonably successful brand.
Shoot, even the 4G...hate it or love it, but it's still a unique car that isn't often mistaken with any of the competitor's sea of uniform design on wheels.
as a guy that has driven a v6 TLX on a few occasions, and daily drives something with substantially more HP...
there's really no need for more power than it currently has IMO in day to day driving, it's plenty fastquick.
Sure, bragging rights, showing off etc but really, more power would get away from the efficiency and reliability that the brand became famous for to begin with.
Not whoring themselves out might be what Honda is doing differently and maybe in the end, that'll make them victorious as a long standing reasonably successful brand.
Shoot, even the 4G...hate it or love it, but it's still a unique car that isn't often mistaken with any of the competitor's sea of uniform design on wheels.
1. Not everyone has a second, fast vehicle. They have one vehicle that they likely want to be able to multi-task. In today's day and age, 290hp isn't winning anything, by a long shot. Especially when Accords and Camry's are in the realm of 270-280hp and those cars don't come at a premium price.
2. While 290hp isn't bad, I keep hearing that the car is still slower than the 3G TL-S. That's not exactly stellar.
3. While 290hp is plenty for many, some just want something a bit more powerful for their daily vehicle. Not sure why you'd say it's for showing off or bragging rights. Even 350hp isn't anything worth bragging about these days.
4. Why did you buy a 550hp vehicle, if power and speed aren't a priority, and you'd be happy with half the power?I don't buy your argument at all.
5. I'm guessing you haven't been following the reality of where Acura sits these days, in terms of reliability. They are NOT what they used to be. By a long shot.
6. Acura has got themselves in the pickle they're in now, by not listening to want consumers want, but rather telling them what they should want. There have been many people scorned by the brand. If that's what it means to be different, then so be it. But pushing people away generally isn't a very good business plan and eventually catches up to you. Granted, you can't please everyone, nor should Acura even try to please everyone. But offering a sport model just opens the brand up to more potential buyers. I can't imagine that's a bad thing.
By the end of the day, 290hp is good for a base model TLX. But there are enough people who want more and are willing to pay more for it. I don't think the TLX should come standard with 350hp. That would be ludicrous. But having a sport option to allow people to have 350-400hp seems reasonable. It's still not a rocket ship, but at least gives people the opportunity to have a very practical vehicle with sporting abilities.
1. Not everyone has a second, fast vehicle. They have one vehicle that they likely want to be able to multi-task. In today's day and age, 290hp isn't winning anything, by a long shot. Especially when Accords and Camry's are in the realm of 270-280hp and those cars don't come at a premium price.
2. While 290hp isn't bad, I keep hearing that the car is still slower than the 3G TL-S. That's not exactly stellar.
3. While 290hp is plenty for many, some just want something a bit more powerful for their daily vehicle. Not sure why you'd say it's for showing off or bragging rights. Even 350hp isn't anything worth bragging about these days.
4. Why did you buy a 550hp vehicle, if power and speed aren't a priority, and you'd be happy with half the power?I don't buy your argument at all.
5. I'm guessing you haven't been following the reality of where Acura sits these days, in terms of reliability. They are NOT what they used to be. By a long shot.
6. Acura has got themselves in the pickle they're in now, by not listening to want consumers want, but rather telling them what they should want. There have been many people scorned by the brand. If that's what it means to be different, then so be it. But pushing people away generally isn't a very good business plan and eventually catches up to you. Granted, you can't please everyone, nor should Acura even try to please everyone. But offering a sport model just opens the brand up to more potential buyers. I can't imagine that's a bad thing.
By the end of the day, 290hp is good for a base model TLX. But there are enough people who want more and are willing to pay more for it. I don't think the TLX should come standard with 350hp. That would be ludicrous. But having a sport option to allow people to have 350-400hp seems reasonable. It's still not a rocket ship, but at least gives people the opportunity to have a very practical vehicle with sporting abilities.
Having had the 3rd Gen Type S and the TLX there is no doubt the Type S was faster, handled better, never hesitated and stopped faster. I may be mistaken but when the Type S came out it was marginally more HP than the TL at that time but I do think the original Tl in 2004 had over rated HP and was really lower than stated and was corrected in 2007 (the tl I believe had a 3.2ltr engine and the type S was 3.5ltr). Even after HP was corrected the type S with marginally more HP was very fast. The current TLX with a modest bump to 320-330 HP and the right trans would be a very nice car and satisfy most people. I think the suspension upgrade will help as the TLX really feels like a heavy car compared to the Type S with the stiffer suspension and larger sway bars. Also the tuned exhuast on the type S was great but the Aspec is supposed to have some improvement in that area.
I guess overall the 3rd generation type S had a very nimble feel and the power always was there even though "only" 286 HP.
You're right. The 3G TL was originally rated at 270hp, but then after whatever standard of measuring came out, was dropped to 258hp. Nothing actually changed. Just the recorded power output.
The TL-S did actually put down 286hp. So a 28hp increase over the base TL
May be, it may have 4-5 more hp and 1-2 more lbft just like Accord sport (due to different exhaust system?).
Knowing Acura, they would've repeatedly stated this was "the most powerful TLX ever" if there really was a change in ratings. Nevertheless I understand the (hopeless) optimism
Originally Posted by TacoBello
You're right. The 3G TL was originally rated at 270hp, but then after whatever standard of measuring came out, was dropped to 258hp.
Hmm, wonder if the 2G TL-S' 260 hp was also overrated. If not, that meant the base 3G was actually a downgrade in terms of power, just like the 4G AWD to TLX?
04-18-2017, 09:10 PM
