rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I love what Audi is putting out!

ESHBG

I agree and think that both the sedan and coupe are nice looking cars and you get a lot for the money.

F23A4

Honestly, a Sport model with a V6 and 6MT would have been a slam dunk for me.

TacoBello

The problem is- many people say that exact rhetoric.... But when it comes to voting with their wallets, the trend seems to be the exact opposite.

I'm not saying you wouldn't buy a 6MT TLX, but the actual numbers of people doing so seem to indicate quite the opposite. I think when the 3G TL was out, only about 10% were sold with a 6MT... Those numbers have only gone down since.

F23A4

I'm pretty sure an Accord Sport V6 6MT would be thousands less expensive than my TLX V6.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

and lighter...

Mr Hyde

Really loving the new virtual cockpit, and I've always been a big fan of the Audi interiors.

Repair costs have always scared me, but nothing an extended warranty wouldn't fix. I never purchased them in the past, because I had faith in the mechanicals, and drive trains of the cars I bought, but with all the electronics in modern vehicles, I can't imagine not getting one on any car I purchase.

saturno_v

Exactly...I would not trust any of the modern luxury or even near luxury vehicles outside of warranty, no matter the brand. I do the same thing, buy the best extended warranty I can (they are fairly cheap when the car is brand new) and dump the car before the warranty runs out.

ESHBG

But for me this can be like a chicken or the egg argument because brands like Acura/Honda only give you an MT in limited trims and you have to sacrifice a lot just for the MT and years ago when they didn't do that it was not easy to get a hold of an MT because of the limited production.

But as time marches on it's getting harder and harder to justify MTs with the progressing technologies and MPG standards and worsening traffic and...

rocket_pup

I would say an MT is viewed as more of a cost saving feature rather than performance. AT's, in general, shift faster and more accurately than the general driving public could also providing equal or better fuel economy than MT's. Acura is a performance luxury brand with more emphasis on "luxury", or affordable luxury.

MT's are going the way of the hand cranked starter.

weather

^^ I know what you are saying about the low take rate of the manual and the loss of profits for car companies to develop/maintain them but here is my question....How much money has Acura lost on the NSX and they still developed it. I know the NSX creates a buzz for the brand but the manual would create a buzz for the enthusiast. The fact they have a manual for the Accord, how much more effort would have been required to develop it for the TLX.

And what better opportunity for Acura to develop a buzz, when very few companies now offer the manual, why not create a car that is sexy, that has great power, amazing handling, a sexy interior AND A MANUAL.....now that would set the brand apart and create a buzz and attract other brand shoppers. Just a thought

mapleloaf

So I decided to spend a few hours at the Audi dealership yesterday taking a good look at the 2017 A4. The salesman turned out to be the uncle of my son's good friend, so it was an enjoyable and informative couple of hours. Based on our discussion, and my subsequent test drive, here are a few thoughts:

1. 190 hp TFSI Progressiv trim level (mid) - $47,367 - a TLX 2.4 Tech is $41,610, $38,610 with incentive, and another effective 1k reduction for Acura Loyalty - so about $36,610. A lease payment for 4 years would effectively be $200 less per month for the TLX
2. 252 hp TFSI quattro Progressiv rim level - $51,777 - a TLX 3.5 SH-AWD is $46,810, $43,510 after incentive, and another effective 1K reduction for Acura loyalty - so about $42,810 (Loyalty is actually a 2 percent reduction in rates, but more like 1 percent after other dealer costs). A four year lease payment would be $250 less per month for the TLX.

Now that I have the numbers out of the way, I can talk about my impressions of the car. I only drove the 252 hp TFSI, as they don't yet have any of the non quattro smaller 190 hp versions. Based upon my 16 months driving my 2015 TLX SH-AWD, I can say that the engine refinement and power between the two higher end cars is comparable. I preferred the 7 speed transmission to the 9 speed, but my current 8 speed is pretty close in terms of refinement. Again, it was a short drive and the car was warmed up ahead of time.

I did like the interior, but part of the wow factor was that it was new to me, and my response was similar to when I first looked at the TLX. The materials are similar, with the TLX moulded foam dash material a touch softer. Plastics and trim are comparable. The Audi leather is not as soft or supple, but with more bolstering that leaves smaller sections to "wrinkle". The car was quiet, but a little less so without the ANC that is a feature of the TLX. The centre display was large and was one of my favourite parts of the car, where the whole navigation map can fit. I did not get to see the Virtual Dash, which is only available on the top end trim in Canada, as that demo was out. I would suggest however, that once the newness wears off, you would likely end up with a similar configuration to the fixed dash display on my tester. Very functional. Graphics on the Navigation screen were higher end, but frankly overall, I still prefer the dual screens with a touch screen and a navigation screen that is imbedded vs sitting on top of the dash. I do have to say the lower climate controls on the Audi are pretty slick. Comfort levels were similar to my TLX. The sound system in the Progressiv and base trim is fairly pedestrian - 200 watts 10 speaker system. I'm sure the Bang and Olufsen 3D system is excellent.

Exterior wise, a handsome car, but I prefer the TLX from most angles. I do like the Audi and that smooth 7 speed gearbox. If I could afford to go top end Technik and load up the car, I'd take the leap to Audi - but the cost difference would just get silly for me. As it is, with $200 per month difference in a lease payment, and losing passive safety systems, a heated windshield and rear seats and my fab ELS sound system, I will likely stay put. Maybe in a couple of years after we are down to one car lease, I might treat myself

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

now theres a guy that does his research!!!!!!!!!!!!

F23A4

Agreed. He definitely put things into perspective for the 'grass is greener' crowd here.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Good post! I guess once we have numbers then the way we look at things change. $9k or $200/month difference is pretty big to be fair.

cube1

I test drove the A4 three times, and the TLX four. I also spent a couple of hours in each working with the infotainment, The A4 in the Prestige trim line (to get autonomous braking at all speeds) was head and shoulders better than the TLX SH-AWD advance I bought in almost every way: handling was a little better, acceleration was better, the virtual cockpit and NAV were significantly better, nd the transmission was no contest. The only reason I went with the TLX was that the best discount t I could get on n A4 was about 6%, and the TLX was discounted heavily, which widened the already substantial price gap.

Saintor

Everybody says leasing an A4 is a "good idea". I wonder the difference in lease rate. I wouldn't be surprised by a $200/mo or around $2400/year and still a 4-cyl, although it delivers. BTW this 2.0T had serious oil consumption issues, even in the recent years, really a gamble. I wouldn't care if a lease, though. I am not that impressed by this A4, even its interior design.

EDIT: there is my answer.

pyrodan007

Funny you should mention that since I feel the same way with my TLX. Was cool when I got it, now it just feels gimmicky. I don't find it has aged well, some of the buttons need to be physical.

After spending over 54k on the TLX (leased, but that's how much it's worth total with spoiler, Super Sport tires, and Nokian winter tires) and being so disappointed with it, an extra few thousand is nothing for enjoyment. I did not buy an appliance. If I wanted something reliable and affordable, I would certainly not look in the luxury market since it's known that it costs a lot to fix and maintain. The number 1 reason I got the TLX was due to price, that's it that's all. I stayed with Acura for loyalty.... doesn't look like it'll happen again though for next car.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

As a company that specializes in both Honda/Acura and VW/Audi we can help you out with the highest quality modifications for your new A4 if that is something you would be looking to pursue. As far as reliability the current Audi is not the same as 15 year old Audi, their progression has been amazing and reliability has never been better. I have owned and worked on quite a few Audi's ranging from 1989 to the most recent generations.

We are also a forum sponsor over on Audizine and have a VAG (VW/Audi) store as well as our Honda/Acura store:
Excelerate's European Store - European Performance Specialist - Homepage

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Regards,
Justin

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

That's great to hear! I want an Audi at some point.

atl7

There actually haven't been any oil consumption reports on the '17 A4 in the year and a half it's been on the market, but we'll have to see how it holds up within the next few years. I was very impressed by the A4's interior, seemed more solid and higher end to me than the TLX. The premium plus quattro I was considering was only $5k more MSRP than my fwd v6 tech which equates to about $150 more a month for a lease which doesn't seem too bad considering the quattro and German build quality and solidity.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I just have to add a little information: The 2.0T oil consumption issue was rectified in 2011. There has been two generations of 2.0T since then. There was a large batch of incorrectly manufactured piston ring packs. Audi made good on a massive number of cars by extending the powertrain warranty to 120k miles, performing consumption tests and re-ringing (in some cases replacing pistons and rings) free of charge. My mother has a 2008 A4 Avant that was consuming a quart every 900 miles or so and it was re-rung at 95,000 miles, didn't cost a dime and now uses less than a half of a quart between 5000 mile OCI's with 140k on the clock.

BEAR-AvHistory

Good points. Seems like some people like to bring up old data that no longer applies to try to make a point. Been through 5 BMW's, still have two, with no reliability issues, longest 9 years 125K+miles with under $1500 out of pocket repairs not counting tires & brakes.

Thing is under normal cases the newer the cars are the more reliable they have become. Most people don't remember points & plugs every 5/7K miles & 3K mile oil changes & a car with over 50K miles was considered a time bomb.

TacoBello

what are "points", Bear?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I'd guess distributor/wires to the plugs...

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

a simple google search revealed that its "ignition points"

Saintor

This is not correct. I know cases of 2014. VW/Audi repeated many times that 'they fixed it'.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

well, yeah we all know about ESP too. and how it works 95% of the time

TacoBello

Can you provide any actual documentation? Stories, articles, anything? I'm not doubting you... but what a guy may have heard isn't always considered to be gospel.

BEAR-AvHistory

Contact Breaker Points in vid AKA "Points" HiPo engines had dual points, two individual sets, in the distributor. Next question should be what's a dwell meter?

Saintor

Audizine to the rescue. I am not even bring the ones I directly heard. Less prevalent than it was, yet still a gamble until recently, as I said.

Oil consumption problems

2.0 TFSI Oil consumption problem - summary and FAQ - Page 11 - Audi A5 Forum & Audi S5 Forum

My last BMW with the N52 was also taking 1L / 2000 miles since it was a baby and then developed multiple engine leaks (2x the valve gasket and then the valve cover, oil filter housing). That level of oil consumption wouldn't deter me from getting an Audi - some people are going nut with this.

F23A4

Good read from CR

Excessive Oil Consumption Isn't Normal - Consumer Reports

KeithL

Audi rally never subsidizes their leases so their leases are never as attractive as say Acura, BMW, MB or Infiniti all who subsidize their leases.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Is that why they usually have one of the hardest depreciation?

BEAR-AvHistory

300+HP & nice paint.

Saintor

Exactly why I questioned as leasing an A4 "a good idea".

There will be very good offers on the out-going 3-series. When I leased my E46 in Feb 05, it was no significantly more expensive than a 2005 TSX, much less than a TL.

hddnav

I formerly had a 2013 TL SH-AWD. Now, I have a 2016 Q5 3.0T. Some considerations I had.

My primary hangup to owning the Audi was the reputation for junky reliability (not so different than Hyundai). Objectively, though, when you look at the latest hard data (such as from Consumer Reports), Audi's been one of the most reliable brands for at least the last 5 years now. On the other hand, Acura/Honda used to be dead reliable back in the 1990's, but is now a total basketcase; half their cars are below industry average. My TL drank a quart of oil every 3000 miles; there was a time when you could trust that any Honda would have all the mechanicals and electrical all ironed out; that was the strength of their brand name, and that strength is now completely gone. I still can't understand how the 3.7L V6, out since 2006 in the RL, would be left unfixed 6 to 8 years into the life cycle of so many models. Only Toyota/Lexus still carries the Japanese quality torch.

Anyhow, despite my research into Audi's improved reliability, I still bought an extended warranty for the Q5. To be fair, the Acura would also have needed an extended warranty, if you're serious about keeping the car past warranty. You also never know when a Honda transmission is going to go out; the only consistent trend the last decade is that they definitely have no grasp of their transmission problems.

In all other aspects, the Audi is head and shoulders above Acura. The supercharged 3.0T V6, despite being rated at 272hp, is way stronger and torquier than Honda's 305hp 3.7L. There's no outwards signs of cost-cutting, unlike the Accord-like atmosphere of the Acuras. Dynamically, the TL SH-AWD was a fine handler, but the Q5 with the 20-inch rims is not far behind for an SUV. The Audi body structure is rock-solid. The Audi gives an impression of precision engineering; the Acuras appeals in a bargain-basement, "I got a good deal on Black Friday," value for the money kind of way.

I still wouldn't own any European brand outright without a warranty, though.

weather

^^ Good post!

Saintor

Although soon to be replaced, I find the Q5 much more interesting than the new A4.

Here in Canada the 3.0T is only $2500 more than the 2.0T (Progressiv pack) and the 3.0T is not even offered in the A4. I would even call $48600 not expensive for a vehicle like this with a 3.0T (simlarly priced to A4 Progressiv 2.0T).

Momyc

Congrats !
Before I got my TLX , I almost pull the trigger for an SQ5 .
I'm regretting now , but probably the new SQ5 will be out when my lease is finished.