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PAWS handles & accelerates better than SH-AWD

 
Old 09-26-2015, 09:00 PM
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PAWS handles & accelerates better than SH-AWD

This is after same magazine (CarAndDriver) tested the cars on the same course (CPG) during the same month.

Download the test sheet on each to review.

More lateral grip, higher limited top speed and quicker acceleration to 60 mph, 100 mph, 120 mph.

All this with better fuel economy.

Glad I did not get the SH-AWD. Of course I am in the south so AWD is not needed as some Northern folks might require.

2015 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 FWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

2015 Acura TLX V-6 SH-AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by joflewbyu2 View Post
This is after same magazine (CarAndDriver) tested the cars on the same course (CPG) during the same month.

Download the test sheet on each to review.

More lateral grip, higher limited top speed and quicker acceleration to 60 mph, 100 mph, 120 mph.

All this with better fuel economy.

Glad I did not get the SH-AWD. Of course I am in the south so AWD is not needed as some Northern folks might require.

2015 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 FWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

2015 Acura TLX V-6 SH-AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
I've driven the PAWS and SHAWD back to back. The SHAWD is much more fun to drive, and it corners a lot better. Track performance is irrelevant. Feeling some power coming from the rear wheels in full throttle definitely mimics the feel in rear-wheel drive sports cars, as well. Obviously you dont get that in the PAWS.
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:48 PM
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Better is a pretty subjective term. I'd say "slightly faster under certain conditions".

I've driven both cars back to back the first time I went to check them out, and the SH-AWD accelerates with more poise and manners/grace. The FWD misbehaves with excess wheelspin and torque steer, especially on roads that are less than perfect (ie: every road in Alberta). In the wintertime, the SH-AWD smokes the FWD as well in every way except for braking (since it's heavier). Oh, and turning radius (the FWD has a tighter turning radius for parking lot manoeuvers).

Is the LSD in my 07 Type-S the reason that it doesn't feel as bad off the line as the FWD V6 TLX? Is it because first gear is so low compared to gear one in the 6MT I have, or both, or neither?

As a side note, the FWD V6 was discontinued in Canada due to very slow sales. The I4 FWD is simply much better behaved on the road than the V6 FWD.
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joflewbyu2 View Post
This is after same magazine (CarAndDriver) tested the cars on the same course (CPG) during the same month.

Download the test sheet on each to review.

More lateral grip, higher limited top speed and quicker acceleration to 60 mph, 100 mph, 120 mph.

All this with better fuel economy.

Glad I did not get the SH-AWD. Of course I am in the south so AWD is not needed as some Northern folks might require.

2015 Acura TLX 3.5 V-6 FWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver

2015 Acura TLX V-6 SH-AWD Test ? Review ? Car and Driver
Maybe the PAWS model is better on track, but the SH-AWD feels better on the road. After driving the AWD and PAWS V6 models, I decided the AWD model wasn't worth the sacrifice of getting a color combo I didn't love. The gray/ebony FWD was sufficient enough for me where I live in the winter and I also like the money it saved me on price and fuel economy (over time). Only thing I miss is was how my SH-AWD TL never peeled out, my PAWS TLX does it any time I put my pedal to the floor. Other than that PAWS is great and I'm really happy with the decision I made.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:30 AM
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They used the crap Goodyear tires on the SH. The PAWS model had the Potenzas. Tires are a big factor.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:51 AM
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Yeah i hate the fact the SH-AWD come with Good year. Does anyone know why both models have different tires?
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:57 AM
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I wish they'd test the car using different models of tires. I know after I put my Michelin Pilots on the car it became a different animal. I don't know what the skidpad rating would be, but I never have a problem on offramps.

I have a few twisty roads around me and the car never feels unstable and that's something I couldn't say for any other car I've owned or driven.
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:27 AM
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after test driving the PAWS and SH-AWD. You can def feel the difference in between both cars. The PAWS off the line has torque steer and peels out. Where the SH-AWD just takes off! Also the SH-AWD just feels solid and luxury when driving it.
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoosier_TLX View Post
I wish they'd test the car using different models of tires. I know after I put my Michelin Pilots on the car it became a different animal. I don't know what the skidpad rating would be, but I never have a problem on offramps.

I have a few twisty roads around me and the car never feels unstable and that's something I couldn't say for any other car I've owned or driven.
They have to test with the tires that come on the car otherwise its a mod.

Expect 99% of the cars tested would do better with performance matched tires replacing the stock ones.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoosier_TLX View Post
I wish they'd test the car using different models of tires. I know after I put my Michelin Pilots on the car it became a different animal. I don't know what the skidpad rating would be, but I never have a problem on offramps.

I have a few twisty roads around me and the car never feels unstable and that's something I couldn't say for any other car I've owned or driven.
Bingo. Even on the 3G TL, the car's OEM tires were horrible tires. Once I switched to better tires, it handled awesome. There are high-speed curves I will not take as fast in my FWD TLX with stock tires as I did in my 3G TL with Pilots and other tires I used on it. I have no confidence. In day-to-day driving, I have no problems with the tires except from a stand-still flooring of the car where the tires often screech to holy hell. My biggest dilemma is whether or not to get a better GT tire or go for something like a performance all-season tire. With the former I can probably maintain the sweet ride, but may still not get great handling. With the latter, I may or may not get great handling, but will probably lose out a bit on the sweet ride. With the 3G TL, there was never any doubt... I wasn't about to put touring tires on that car. lol.
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketsfan View Post
Bingo. Even on the 3G TL, the car's OEM tires were horrible tires. Once I switched to better tires, it handled awesome. There are high-speed curves I will not take as fast in my FWD TLX with stock tires as I did in my 3G TL with Pilots and other tires I used on it. I have no confidence. In day-to-day driving, I have no problems with the tires except from a stand-still flooring of the car where the tires often screech to holy hell. My biggest dilemma is whether or not to get a better GT tire or go for something like a performance all-season tire. With the former I can probably maintain the sweet ride, but may still not get great handling. With the latter, I may or may not get great handling, but will probably lose out a bit on the sweet ride. With the 3G TL, there was never any doubt... I wasn't about to put touring tires on that car. lol.
The first thing I do when I get any car is ditch the all season tires for a dedicated set of performance summer tires and good quality winter tires.
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
They have to test with the tires that come on the car otherwise its a mod.

Expect 99% of the cars tested would do better with performance matched tires replacing the stock ones.
I guess I should have clarified a little better. I meant that I wish a site like Tire Rack or something of the like would use the same car and put different tires on to test for the difference it would make.

The second part of your statement is also very true, however, some manufacturers actually put performance matched tires on their cars as stock. I would guess that number is pretty low, but sports cars would probably be the most prevalent in this area.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:42 AM
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Having test driven the FWD version, and getting it as a loaner, I am over the moon having gotten the AWD version.

The handling when casually driving/coasting on bends was great with the PAWS version, and I was really surprised with how you could feel it when taking corners. I was expecting it to be a much more subtle difference.

Under power however is where the AWD version really shines.

The FWD has the expected torque steer which is very apparent on even just moderate throttle. Having had a TL-S, and a TSX, I don't miss that one bit. Accelerating around, or out of turns is also where the AWD version begs for more throttle where in the FWD version you would just want to coast.

As good as it is stock, the GoodYears are really just horrible, horrible fuel economy minded tires, (they are ranked last/2nd to last on Tirerack in their category). The difference made to the car with a set of 3 seasons (PSSs in my case) is night, and day, just as the difference between AWD, and not. No one is talking about track tires here, just the same tires you'd find on a sport package for most competitors, and even with Acura sued to equip on the M/T version on the 4G. In Acura's case, the returns didn't justify the expense, just like with the tranny as far as sales went.

If it wasn't for the AWD version, I would have bought a RWD or AWD BMW, or Audi. If I didn't live in an area with snow, I still would have gotten the same exact version.

Talking about economy, is anyone expecting an AWD version with the drivetrain, and weight to have better economy?

Last edited by Mr Hyde; 09-30-2015 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoosier_TLX View Post
I guess I should have clarified a little better. I meant that I wish a site like Tire Rack or something of the like would use the same car and put different tires on to test for the difference it would make.

The second part of your statement is also very true, however, some manufacturers actually put performance matched tires on their cars as stock. I would guess that number is pretty low, but sports cars would probably be the most prevalent in this area.
Not sure about the other German cars but BMW offers the choice of summer (performance) or all season tires for its cars & SUV's. All mine have been ordered with summer tires.

FWIW had the choice with my Acura 3G TL. Summer tires went away with the 4G.
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
Having test driven the FWD version, and getting it as a loaner, I am over the moon having gotten the AWD version.

The handling when casually driving/coasting on bends was great with the PAWS version, and I was really surprised with how you could feel it when taking corners. I was expecting it to be a much more subtle difference.

Under power however is where the AWD version really shines.

The FWD has the expected torque steer which is very apparent on even just moderate throttle. Having had a TL-S, and a TSX, I don't miss that one bit. Accelerating around, or out of turns is also where the AWD version begs for more throttle where in the FWD version you would just want to coast.

As good as it is stock, the GoodYears are really just horrible, horrible fuel economy minded tires, (they are ranked last/2nd to last on Tirerack in their category). The difference made to the car with a set of 3 seasons (PSSs in my case) is night, and day, just as the difference between AWD, and not. No one is talking about track tires here, just the same tires you'd find on a sport package for most competitors, and even with Acura sued to equip on the M/T version on the 4G. In Acura's case, the returns didn't justify the expense, just like with the tranny as far as sales went.

If it wasn't for the AWD version, I would have bought a RWD or AWD BMW, or Audi. If I didn't live in an area with snow, I still would have gotten the same exact version.

Talking about economy, is anyone expecting an AWD version with the drivetrain, and weight to have better economy?
My feelings exactly. With SH-AWD you need to brake before and then accelerate through corners, if you just coast you get no help. But when it powers you through turns, it is amazing. :-)
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by youngTL View Post
The first thing I do when I get any car is ditch the all season tires for a dedicated set of performance summer tires and good quality winter tires.
If I lived that close to the arctic circle I would too LOL
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:36 PM
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I replaced the OEM 17" wheels/tires with 18" OEM V6 wheels and Michelin Pilot Sport AS-3 tires.....great improvement in every category so far. That being said, if I hadn't voluntarily capped myself to a certain out the door budget, I would have went with the SH-AWD trim.
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by youngTL View Post
The first thing I do when I get any car is ditch the all season tires for a dedicated set of performance summer tires and good quality winter tires.
What? Two sets of tires? What kind of lunacy is this of which you speak?!

I run with the same set of tires all year and they are all season. I usually just wear out the original crappy set or until I have no confidence in them and get what I want afterwards. I figure I paid for them, so may as well get some use out of them. lol.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketsfan View Post
What? Two sets of tires? What kind of lunacy is this of which you speak?!

I run with the same set of tires all year and they are all season. I usually just wear out the original crappy set or until I have no confidence in them and get what I want afterwards. I figure I paid for them, so may as well get some use out of them. lol.
I have my SH-AWD Elite on order actually. Apparently the delivery date is December 11. I haven't finished the paperwork since Acura hasn't confirmed the pricing yet, but do you think it's reasonable for me to negotiate in a set of winter tires and have the dealer keep the original ones that came with the car (since they won't be used tires - they haven't been really driven on besides the initial stuff the factory and having the PDI done does)?

I plan on using the stock rims for the winters, and then buying a set of gunmetal rims and summer tires for summertime.
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:58 PM
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Anything is reasonable for negotiations, and you may get nothing, a reasonable discounted price, or a straight swap. A lot depends on the deal that you have already negotiated.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by youngTL View Post
I have my SH-AWD Elite on order actually. Apparently the delivery date is December 11. I haven't finished the paperwork since Acura hasn't confirmed the pricing yet, but do you think it's reasonable for me to negotiate in a set of winter tires and have the dealer keep the original ones that came with the car (since they won't be used tires - they haven't been really driven on besides the initial stuff the factory and having the PDI done does)?

I plan on using the stock rims for the winters, and then buying a set of gunmetal rims and summer tires for summertime.
Dec 12th would have been my one year TLX ownership anniversary :cry
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Old 10-01-2015, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gokhanturk View Post
Yeah i hate the fact the SH-AWD come with Good year. Does anyone know why both models have different tires?
Agreed, very disappointed in the move away from Michelin, clearly this was a cost factor. Surprising after all the years with Michelin, every TL I owned had Michelins on it.
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Old 10-01-2015, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
Agreed, very disappointed in the move away from Michelin, clearly this was a cost factor. Surprising after all the years with Michelin, every TL I owned had Michelins on it.
This has been discussed before and I asked my brother (works at Honda R&D) about the reasoning for using Goodyears since they rate so badly on most tire review or sales sites. He spoke to one of the people directly responsible for choosing the tires and I was told that the Goodyears were the best "overall" selection. Lots of factors go into it and it's not strictly performance.

With that said, I have swapped the All-Season Goodyears out for 19" Michelin PSS's and I'm never looking back. I'll put the OEM back on during winter months but the change in performance with the Michelin is unbelievable.
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Stew4HD View Post
Dec 12th would have been my one year TLX ownership anniversary :cry
Holy sh*t when did this happen? did you trade it in? Lost a lot?
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Old 10-01-2015, 04:27 PM
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Half right

Originally Posted by 9SpeedTran View Post
My feelings exactly. With SH-AWD you need to brake before and then accelerate through corners, if you just coast you get no help. But when it powers you through turns, it is amazing. :-)
You are half right. Common misconception that you have to accelerate through the turn for SH-AWD to do anything for you.

During cornering, torque to the rear wheels is continuously varied to supply up to 100% to the outside wheel and 0% to the inside wheel. This creates an inward yaw moment, significantly improving vehicle handling. Yaw moment is turning torque relative to the vertical axis running through the vehicleís center of gravity.

When decelerating during cornering (throttle closed), torque to the outside rear wheel is freely varied to change from an inward to an outward yaw moment, ensuring vehicle stability at all times.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:55 PM
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Hello,
I got the PAWS (FWD) 2018 V6 Tech package - I did not take my time and I guess I was too tired when I pulled the trigger and bought the car, so, I'm thinking maybe it would have been better to go with the "Base" model with SH-AWD instead of the FWD "Tech" model?

I'm financing the car and our company car play will cover the payments for 5 years, so, I have a few questions. Is there a "sweet spot" for trading in financed cars where the cash value - remaining principal is high? We went with the 8 year finance in order to keep the payments under $500 - I bet the 5 year plan is much more commonly used? Acura does give lower interest with the shorter term, not sure about the possibility of refinancing at some point...

I need more reasons to tell my self that it's OK I got the FWD PAWS version and not cry over having not told the dealer: "I'd rather have SH-AWD than the Tech package". First one I can think of (besides the slightly better fuel economy) is the tighter turning radius afforded by PAWS might make parking, U-turns, etc. easier?
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoosier_TLX View Post
This has been discussed before and I asked my brother (works at Honda R&D) about the reasoning for using Goodyears since they rate so badly on most tire review or sales sites. He spoke to one of the people directly responsible for choosing the tires and I was told that the Goodyears were the best "overall" selection. Lots of factors go into it and it's not strictly performance.

With that said, I have swapped the All-Season Goodyears out for 19" Michelin PSS's and I'm never looking back. I'll put the OEM back on during winter months but the change in performance with the Michelin is unbelievable.
"Overall" is a tough word if you don't know what the weighting factors for the decision were. Willing to bet cost & fuel economy were two heavyweights in the matrix.
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocketsfan View Post
What? Two sets of tires? What kind of lunacy is this of which you speak?!

I run with the same set of tires all year and they are all season. I usually just wear out the original crappy set or until I have no confidence in them and get what I want afterwards. I figure I paid for them, so may as well get some use out of them. lol.
Young TL is in Alberta. Expect all seasons will not get the job done & might be against the law in snow. That said here in the sunny south where is snowed the last two out of three days I run summers except on the 4X4's one has a mixed road & off road tires while the Ranger has full off road tires that are also snow rated.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
Hello,
I got the PAWS (FWD) 2018 V6 Tech package - I did not take my time and I guess I was too tired when I pulled the trigger and bought the car, so, I'm thinking maybe it would have been better to go with the "Base" model with SH-AWD instead of the FWD "Tech" model?

I'm financing the car and our company car play will cover the payments for 5 years, so, I have a few questions. Is there a "sweet spot" for trading in financed cars where the cash value - remaining principal is high? We went with the 8 year finance in order to keep the payments under $500 - I bet the 5 year plan is much more commonly used? Acura does give lower interest with the shorter term, not sure about the possibility of refinancing at some point...

I need more reasons to tell my self that it's OK I got the FWD PAWS version and not cry over having not told the dealer: "I'd rather have SH-AWD than the Tech package". First one I can think of (besides the slightly better fuel economy) is the tighter turning radius afforded by PAWS might make parking, U-turns, etc. easier?
Don't overthink it. Just enjoy your car.
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by a35tl View Post
Don't overthink it. Just enjoy your car.
Agreed.

I will say that as a PAWS V6 owner, I do recommend the SH-AWD version if one wants the V6....and I recommend it as much to those in Miami as I would for those in Alberta.

While the PAWS V6 model has better OEM tires (I had Eagle LS tires on my Accord Sport), the SH-AWD more than makes up for it when it comes to handling. Though the PAWS may be quicker, it is fairly tricky to launch well enough to match/beat those test numbers. (...and I used to own a 5.5G Maxima: another overpowered FWD sedan)
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:34 PM
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AWD adds detrimental weight, 1mpg worse, bi-yearly $150 fluid change and also is also less predictable when pushed despite the sophisticated rear differential.

I would prefer a nimbler FWD car (but with better tires), more of that with a front limited slip differential.
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:40 PM
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Wow, is this the same Saintor?
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:45 PM
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Well I have been saying pretty much the same for 25 years, after having owned my first Audi Quattro... where were you?
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Well I have been saying pretty much the same for 25 years, after having owned my first Audi Quattro... where were you?
LMAO and yet Audi is to blame, aren't all AWD heavier lol
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Old 12-12-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pyrodan007 View Post
LMAO and yet Audi is to blame, aren't all AWD heavier lol
He probably wrecked the Audi, leading to a traumatic brain injury, resulting in whatever the hell he believes now.

I'll go SH-AWD over FWD 100% of the time.
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Old 12-12-2017, 05:18 PM
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I'll be honest, I didn't look at the articles posted, but, if the fwd is a bit faster, it's not hugely surprising... it does technically put down a bit more power than the SH-AWD system does. Those tests were probably done on perfect weather days. But... it's in the less than ideal conditions where the SH-AWD starts to shine like a diamond.

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either setup. They both have advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I'd go the AWD route, simply because I've yet to own an AWD vehicle and because I'm a whore for fully optioned out cars. living in Alberta, FWD is more than fine, with some good winter tires. As good as AWD? No. But also not a safety hazard, either.
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:36 PM
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$150 here, $150 there & you are still never talking about any real money. IIRC the primary reason for SHAWD was to cover for the FWD bias. Can't see getting a TLX or Audi without it. Can't see getting some other brands with it.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:31 AM
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Speaking of PaWS, do you feel it working? I donít think I have ever. Of course Iíve only had the car for a few months. But when are you suppose to feel it? How does it feel?
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:27 AM
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For what it’s worth, it does “rotate” better than my 14 Accord Sport. However, this could be attributable to the fact that my Sport has the same awful Eagle LS tires that comes with non-PAWS V6 TLXs.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:46 PM
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IIRC the primary reason for SHAWD was to cover for the FWD bias.
Because there was a market for it, not because it was any better.

Again from the initial post :

"More lateral grip, higher limited top speed and quicker acceleration to 60 mph, 100 mph, 120 mph.

All this with better fuel economy. "


He probably wrecked the Audi, leading to a traumatic brain injury, resulting in whatever the hell he believes now.
Kid, keep your stupid comments away from this forum.
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