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I tried googling a little for search terms like "feel the affect of Precision All Wheel Steering" and "does Precision All-Wheel Steer actually make a difference" etc. but couldn't find much other than comments from reviewers like "since we can't turn PAWS off, we can't really judge how well it works or how much of an effect it has..."
Originally Posted by Saintor
Because there was a market for it, not because it was any better.
Again from the initial post :
"More lateral grip, higher limited top speed and quicker acceleration to 60 mph, 100 mph, 120 mph. All this with better fuel economy. "..
So, the "But SH-AWD is better, I can feel it, it's more exciting" might just be "confirmation bias"? And, maybe I really should stop regretting saving $2,000 to get/end up with a lighter, faster, more efficient, better handling, and, possibly less prone to "vibration" or other maintenance headaches version of the TLX?
I still suspect that the SH-AWD is easier to accelerate because you can just mash the throttle rather than worry about the front wheels losing grip? Also, if you're stuck in a rut in the snow, the SH-AWD will direct power to the other three wheels rather than spinning the one (or two) that's slipping, correct? So folks in places like Buffalo NY, or Canada would be smart to get the AWD version, correct?
I don't think PAWS is something you feel. It's supposed to give slightly better cornering and braking performance. Likely not making enough difference for the average grocery getter ever notice. I think the idea is good but it's more marketing than anything else in reality.
I don't think PAWS is something you feel. It's supposed to give slightly better cornering and braking performance. Likely not making enough difference for the average grocery getter ever notice. I think the idea is good but it's more marketing than anything else in reality.
If PAWS is a marketing term, why isn't it a better name I wonder. Same with SHAWD. Why not give these systems actual names? 4Drive, AdvancedWD, ApexCornering. Real names.
I guess I should have clarified a little better. I meant that I wish a site like Tire Rack or something of the like would use the same car and put different tires on to test for the difference it would make.
The second part of your statement is also very true, however, some manufacturers actually put performance matched tires on their cars as stock. I would guess that number is pretty low, but sports cars would probably be the most prevalent in this area.
Old post that slipped by. AFAIK all the tire rack tests are with a vehicle appropriate to the class of the car or suv & the class of the tire tested. They do not mix for example performance tires & fuel economy tires. That said a lot of the different sedan tires tested are on the same model car so you can still look at column A vs column B
Those manufactures are generally selling performance versions of the cars. My cars all come with summer performance tires stock with all seasons as a no cost option.
Acura is selling fuel economy & you get nonperformance tire because performance tires higher friction ratio is bad for fuel economy.
The only times I suspect that I sense the rear tires’ “deliberate” movement at when I turn the lane keeping feature on. The auto steering seems to be manipulating all 4 wheels.
So, the "But SH-AWD is better, I can feel it, it's more exciting" might just be "confirmation bias"?
Well it falls in most part under the category "I want to believe".
AWD is dead weight 95%+ of the time that affects the car, and for the rest, common sense will do. Even Audi pushed the FWD for best performance HERE,
It can be a commodity feature and the "excitement" part can just be accelerating better on wet. But in real-life, it is not as striking as many thing.
Originally Posted by "Car and Driver
As we found on the skidpad, winter tires again showed roughly double the dynamic handling advantage that four-wheel drive offers. On stock tires, the Audi Quattro was just 5.5 percent quicker accelerating through the cones than the stock fwd A6, but the combination of fwd and winter tires boosted performance by 12.6 percent. Slowing through the cones, the 4wd A6 on stock tires was slower and more difficult to control than the fwd A6 on winter rubber. It was more likely to slide sideways, perhaps due to its added mass.
Have you driven a SH-AWD enabled vehicle aggressively? FWD even with LSD is a runner up every time. Yes, I own both vehicles as well & the SH is a 4k lb pig.
Agreed. When driven aggressively on turns, my 15 MDX SH-AWD clearly outhandles my 16 TLX V6 PAWS. The former just needs throttle application to get that rotation; doing likewise in my TLX will put me in a ditch.
I tried googling a little for search terms like "feel the affect of Precision All Wheel Steering" and "does Precision All-Wheel Steer actually make a difference" etc. but couldn't find much other than comments from reviewers like "since we can't turn PAWS off, we can't really judge how well it works or how much of an effect it has..."
So, the "But SH-AWD is better, I can feel it, it's more exciting" might just be "confirmation bias"? And, maybe I really should stop regretting saving $2,000 to get/end up with a lighter, faster, more efficient, better handling, and, possibly less prone to "vibration" or other maintenance headaches version of the TLX?
I still suspect that the SH-AWD is easier to accelerate because you can just mash the throttle rather than worry about the front wheels losing grip? Also, if you're stuck in a rut in the snow, the SH-AWD will direct power to the other three wheels rather than spinning the one (or two) that's slipping, correct? So folks in places like Buffalo NY, or Canada would be smart to get the AWD version, correct?
Correct. That said the FWD & SHAWD are just about dead nuts even in 0-60 & 1/4 mile times. The SHAWD has a slightly higher 300ft skid pad number while the FWD has a slightly higher true fuel economy number according to current C&D testing. Also the most recient comment on handling by C&D are:
"These enhancements elevate the six-cylinder, SH-AWD TLX’s sense of athleticism and tossability to the same level as the lighter, front-drive four-cylinder TLX, previously our favorite version. This all-wheel-drive model, however, can power out of corners like a scared cat. Wringing the most out of the SH-AWD system requires that the driver chuck the TLX into a corner, point the nose at the exit, and mash the gas"
Goes back to the concept that the SHAWD is easier to drive well. As for the seasonally correct Scrooge types the Fuel economy edge over the SHAWD by the FWD might net you a whopping $8 or $9 a month in savings. A real bankable bonus on a $ 40 to $45K car
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-14-2017 at 04:17 PM.
So, I get that the TLX is a little less thrilling than some of it's more expensive and/or less reliable competition (with RWD or AWD + Turbo engines with better low rev torque), but then, I'm a little confused at how mediocre it's reception has been with reviewers whenever I see actual results putting the TLX in direct competition with other cars by professional reviewers and guys that work for car magazines etc.
Perhaps it's the "in thing" to rag on Acura since they had been the first clear leader in providing competition to the premium German car makers, and, I suppose Acura has let down many previous fans by losing some of their edge, becoming more of a pedestrian "near luxury" car make.
Honda needs to do more to set a car like the TLX apart from (and above) the Honda Accord, and yet, it lets the TLX grow a little stale, while the Accord, on the other hand, has seen remarkable change and improvement in this model year?
I assume there is basically 0% chance of this happening, but, what if Acura, in it's next TLX revision: brought it's transmission a slight step ahead of the Audi, and updated to a 3.0L Turbo engine, at the same price point? I feel like that could generate real enthusiasm for the brand again, no?
EDIT: I forgot to say at the end of the first paragraph: ...when they say things such as how the TLX actually beat (and passed on the track) some of it's competition including more than one BMW!... Or about other comparisons between TLX and competitive brands where the TLX actually came out ahead, dispite nearly everyone saying things like "the TLX may not be as fast, but it's a better value..." I honestly have to wonder, how many reviewers even failed to put the TLX into "Sport+" mode during the entirety of their test driving? I've read some reviews that don't even mention "Sport+", yet, claim that it's not a "sporty" car like they had hoped (looking at you Jalponik!)
Coming from a 15 PAWS to a 18 SH-AWD I can tell you that SH-AWD is King. Came from 4G SH-AWD as well and I really missed it after getting the PAWS version.
You can slam the gas at any time and just take off even in wet conditions. Also, the handling is way better as well. Yes, you lose top end a bit but it's all worth it. I don't plan on driving like a maniac on city streets so that's irrelevant for me.
Christopher its always as compared to what & what type person is driving & what they are looking for. On the tester who passed a 3 series on a road course it has no real meaning unless you know what the 3 series drivers skill level was & how hard he was pushing. Its common knowledge on track days that a well driven Miata can be a heart breaker to people in very expensive performance cars. I waved any number of slower cars past when first running the COBRA. Its called not being stupid. At BMW school with there cars I drive at 100% of my ability, sometimes over 100%, have taken 180 & 360 turns into the dirt. Would never drive my car that hard but I do have a good feel as to when my car will be going away on me.
I am not sure what cars you are saying the TLX is quicker or equal too but in actual measurements it generally is no better than back in the pack. Unfortunately ACURA advertises the TLX as a performance car & that's what it is measured against.
Quick example: In performance driving school last month there were 16 drivers in the group with 8 identical factory prepared 340 M-sp0rt & 8 M240's. On one timed event that was relatively short which involved a drag race style start into a tight right hand turn followed by a double S curve into a wide high speed 180 then down a 300 yard straight which ended in a barrier that you had to make a hard left hard right into a stopping box without over running the box. The pass through to the left of the barrier was 1.5 car length long & wide with about 20 yards to the box that was 1.5 wide & 1.5 car lengths long. Any cones knocked down disqualified the run & if you overran the stopping box you got a two second penalty. I won with a best time in 8 runs of 22.76 seconds only 3 of the runs were clean. My Co-driver was second at 22.91 seconds. 16th place took 36+ seconds & 70% of the cars were over 30 seconds for the run. 13 seconds per lap on a full course would be a hugh lead with multiple lapping of the other cars.
Translating that to full track runs with no passing allowed we would consistently be pulled into pit road to let most of the other cars get a 3/4+ track length head start before we were sent out to catch them. On a track day with passing allowed we would have be regularly lapping most of the drivers in out class with no real effort although we were all driving the same basic set of cars. For what its worth my co-driver & I were the only pair that required a front tire change during the day.
I would also challenge you on the reliability since Acuras bullet proof ledged is getting very old in the tooth & not supported by current market surveys. My personal experience is more shop visits for one TL then for 3 BMW's combined one going for 125,000 miles.
As for the testers not being able to drive that's a constant complaint when somebodies favorite car comes up slow. These guys & girls are pros & most race on there own time, they can drive fast & clean. When they tank a car it generally disserves it.
Think if you were more of a car guy with similar experience to some of us you would understand that 99% of the pro-testers (not blog the guys) with high tech test equipment get much more out of a car than just about anyone on this site can get out of one. If the opportunity ever comes to ride with a pro take it, you will quickly understand the difference between them & the rest of us meer mortals.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-14-2017 at 08:12 PM.
Coming from a 15 PAWS to a 18 SH-AWD I can tell you that SH-AWD is King. Came from 4G SH-AWD as well and I really missed it after getting the PAWS version.
You can slam the gas at any time and just take off even in wet conditions. Also, the handling is way better as well. Yes, you lose top end a bit but it's all worth it. I don't plan on driving like a maniac on city streets so that's irrelevant for me.
Would be nice to not have the front wheels slip and chirp when laying down the gas pedal from a stop or slow speed... Getting the Tech package FWD instead of a Base w/SH-AWD was a hasty mistake, unfortunately.
Would be nice to not have the front wheels slip and chirp when laying down the gas pedal from a stop or slow speed... Getting the Tech package FWD instead of a Base w/SH-AWD was a hasty mistake, unfortunately.
Reach out & feel the force Christopher. You know what the issue is now its just a case of training your right foot to stay just under the breakaway point. A slight chirp is not bad as long as it quick & the engine does not bog afterward. It will eventually become muscle memory & you will be able to get quick launches with the car.
Thing is just because the other guy has a faster car does not mean he is faster.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-14-2017 at 09:04 PM.
BEAR,
Yes, and...
Even considering those times when I will be driving simply for the excitement of it, and not for the utilitarian purpose of getting me and or friends & family from point A to point B, I will not be doing the thing which SH-AWD would give me the greatest increase in pleasure: "launching" from a stop or near stop hoping to get the most intense momentary burst of acceleration.
I also do not expect that I will be doing my thrill rides when the roads are wet.
So, it seems that a large portion of the "enthusiasts" that are likely to participate in a forum like this would choose the SH-AWD option, and, they likely are affected by the previously mentioned "confirmation bias". Knowing that, according to testing done by people who's job it is to do such testing, has led them to conclude that the P-AWS version is either superior to, or equal to the SH-AWD version, should be enough to stop me from regretting accepting the dealer's first choice of car for me :P
And as to the reliability myth of Honda/Acura, I do believe that the "10 year cost of ownership (beyond the purchase price)" is still typically thousands of dollars higher for a BMW, but, from what I've read, that by no means equates BMW do being a shoddy brand of car or "not dependable". But then again, Acura long term ownership cost is not nearly as low as Toyota...
Thing is just because the other guy has a faster car does not mean he is faster.
I don't have any real track experience, but I have had a few thrilling automobile driving (mis)adventures such as: catching 75 feet of air (confirmed by a state police officer, he actually got his tape measure out and measured, he told me), accidentally doing a 180 in my new to me old 1981 Formula Firebird while pulling out onto the road from a gas station, then some weeks later using that knowledge of my car's ability to free it's rear wheels, I had a friend in my car with me and after pulling forward to turn left onto a T intersection a truck had been speeding way too fast down the hill and came flying around the corner at us - we would have been "T-boned" but I slammed on the gas and spun my car around the truck as if we were two ice skaters - my passenger said "glad I just went to the bathroom because I honestly would have just shit my pants there".
Oh, I just read through the last couple pages of the TLX Owner's "Check In Thread" and slightly more than half are FWD. I didn't take the time to go through ALL the pages though, just the last couple most recent.
You get zero points for looping an F body. My wife did it twice that I know about with interesting results. About 1971 coming off highway NJ9 onto a county road she got the car loose & did a 180 exactly between two very large oak trees either of which would have destroyed the car. Lost a trim ring that I went out to recover & tried to imagine why I still has an intact undamaged '69 Firebird Trans Am when I saw the tracks..
Second one was years later still in Jersey. She was driving my middle daughters Z-28 on a two lane back road in the Lincroft - Colts Neck area. Hit a wet spot under full power & did a 360 into a farm field where the car got stuck. Had to take my then current 4X4 to tow the car out as it was stuck big time. That one caused major time to be spent at the self-wash chassis bay getting the mud off the underside.
On the number of FWD vs SHAWD would also expect the number of I4 exceeds the V6 by a good margin. Just a further example of how the customer base of this web site has shifted over the last 7 years or so.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-15-2017 at 06:07 AM.
Why is yours an AWD version then? Could have saved money with the FWD version. C'mon, it's more fun without the spinning front wheels.
As a Canuck, you are expected to know that the TLX V6 FWD was 2015 only. 2016+ were all SH-AWD.
Cops and safety vehicles get around in winters with RWD, as I did with my 2 previous BMWs. No whiners. Fake argument. People like you are just afraid to be afraid.
If AWD would a quarter as good of what fanboys think, ALL high end cars (including the S-Bens AMG S) would have it standard, not to mention Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, 718, name them. The keyword is ALL here,
As a Canuck, you are expected to know that the TLX V6 FWD was 2015 only. 2016+ were all SH-AWD.
Cops and safety vehicles get around in winters with RWD, as I did with my 2 previous BMWs. No whiners. Fake argument. People like you are just afraid to be afraid.
If AWD would a quarter as good of what fanboys think, ALL high end cars (including the S-Bens AMG S) would have it standard, not to mention Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, 718, name them. The keyword is ALL here,
*** It is not the case at all. ****
So you got the V6 just for the sound...talk about no arguments lol. As a Canuck, try to compare same car using RWD against AWD in winter. Even FWD. Traction is traction, no matter the tire.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 12-15-2017 at 08:19 AM.
So you got the V6 just for the sound...talk about no arguments lol. As a Canuck, try to compare same car using RWD against AWD in winter. Even FWD. Traction is traction, no matter the tire.
Creating fake needs,
If AWD would be a fraction as good of what fanboys like you think, ALL high end cars (including the S-Bens AMG S) would have it standard no question asked. All means ALL.
As a Canuck, you are expected to know that the TLX V6 FWD was 2015 only. 2016+ were all SH-AWD.
Cops and safety vehicles get around in winters with RWD, as I did with my 2 previous BMWs. No whiners. Fake argument. People like you are just afraid to be afraid.
If AWD would a quarter as good of what fanboys think, ALL high end cars (including the S-Bens AMG S) would have it standard, not to mention Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, 718, name them. The keyword is ALL here,
*** It is not the case at all. ****
See that's the problem with the debate. You think everybody that thinks a TLX should be AWD is an AWD fan boy. All the non AWD cars you mentioned are RWD not nose heavy FWD chassis trying to be sporty. Would never buy an optional AWD version of any of them but would never buy an TLX or Audi without one.
FWIW took my driving test @ 17 in a RWD J2 Super 88 RWD during a snowstorm. First AWD (4X4) I ever drove was in track vehicle mechanics school when I was in the Army. Commuted years in RWD vehicles Jersey Shore to Wall St NYC sun, rain, sleet & snow. Anyone who cannot see the advantage of a good AWD system on a FWD chassis is just tickling themselves & justifying a cheap buy. Sort of like saving $150 a year on gas. Saving $2K MSRP (most will buy for a discounted price) on a $40K FWD car is just plain shortsighted.
BTW one of these two cars is AWD.
Big Clue: Its the one with the 4 on the engine cover. Would expect I have more seat time in a High Performance AWD then you do cutting & pasting from magazines. Speaking of 718 my son in law is invited me to go out with him to test drive a 718 Boxster S PDK (0-60 @ 3.6)Tuesday morning. Will let you know if I like the AWD or RWD Porsche (0-60 @ 3.6) better.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-15-2017 at 09:48 AM.
Another icon goes AWD & AT only. The result is:First Drive: 2018 BMW M5
Magic M: BMW’s super sedan returns to form thanks in part to–yes–wait--for--it "all-wheel drive"
0-60 3.1 seconds top speed 189MPH. 600BHP Twin Turbo V8, 8ZF & for those watching their pennies in a $103K to start car the EPA says 16/23MPG on premium. Guess you can save a few bucks running on 87 if you are so inclined.
Well the 570S has a quicker acceleration at 2.9s and it is RWD. Less HP but lighter (about 200lbs of it was for AWD hardware any way). The M5 has become a fat pig.
Well the 570S has a quicker acceleration at 2.9s and it is RWD. Less HP but lighter (about 200lbs of it was for AWD hardware any way). The M5 has become a fat pig.
What's your point?
They are just not ready to go there yet. That does not say they don't have any planes go that way. They have already worked out the chassis arrangement.
Michal Flewitt is the Chief Executive Officer of McLaren Automotive confirms that they will use an electrically powered front axle in conjunction with a conventional mechanical rear end
But many of its competitors have already gone to AWD. Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Nissan & Acura. Aston Martin is now showing an AWD concept car.
Just like with the turbos you are once again being left behind.
Porsche $1,000,000 AWD.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-15-2017 at 02:42 PM.
The only times I suspect that I sense the rear tires’ “deliberate” movement at when I turn the lane keeping feature on. The auto steering seems to be manipulating all 4 wheels.
Try quickly pulling out of a parallel parking spot; if you make crisp steering inputs and stay in the right lane of travel you should feel a yawing sensation. If in doubt, point the driver side mirror at the left rear wheel and do slow figure eights in a parking lot
They are just not ready to go there yet. That does not say they don't have any planes go that way. They have already worked out the chassis arrangement.
Michal Flewitt is the Chief Executive Officer of McLaren Automotive confirms that they will use an electrically powered front axle in conjunction with a conventional mechanical rear end
But many of its competitors have already gone to AWD. Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Nissan & Acura. Aston Martin is now showing an AWD concept car.
Just like with the turbos you are once again being left behind.
BS.
They have no reason to go there. If they ever do, this will be to appeal suckers and their money, as I explained before. Proposing all bells and whistles for more profit. That's part of capitalism, you know.
They have no reason to go there. If they ever do, this will be to appeal suckers and their money, as I explained before. Proposing all bells and whistles for more profit. That's part of capitalism, you know.
Yeah. Cheap cars that would appeal to people that need cheap transportation that a $2K AWD system would price out of the market. Anyway onto your GT3.
You favorite publication says the AWD Turbo street car 911 S Exclusive will hang right in there with the track day GT3 even though it did not have the track tires the GT3 was running.
C&D said:
"And we couldn’t feel much difference even while lapping the Exclusive at Thunderhill Raceway Park in Northern California. Then again, this Pirelli P Zero–equipped car had little trouble keeping up with the new 4.0-liter 911 GT3 running on stickier Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.
Like the Turbo S, the Exclusive is willing and eager on track. It’ll rotate if you provoke the rear end with the throttle, it has brakes that never give up, and the whooshing six behind the rear seats figuratively shortens straightaways even if the extra punch isn't obvious without a stopwatch."
So what is best, a stripped track day car or a nicely equipped daily driver with a turbo & AWD that will let it run with the big dogs while on street tires?
BTW the M5 is about 4400lbs. Not exactly a behemoth. About 100lbs lighter then the 2018 MB AMG E63/E63 S which it also out preforms.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-15-2017 at 05:22 PM.
Nope. All supercars are RWD because it is the sole best solution. Except those that aren't. And they are designed that way so they cost more and can be priced higher and for no other reason.
RE Bear's comments about getting FWD 'cause it's cheaper:
Well, the "base" 3.5L V6 w/SH-AWD would have been cheaper than the Tech FWD V6 TLX that I purchased - so, it's not only a price issue. I didn't really need the "Tech" package, I think that was a mistake, since driving enjoyment means more to me than the different feature package. I do really appreciate a few things about the TLX over the Honda 2.0T "Sport" package, which would have clearly been a better "value" for me - those include: how quiet the TLX is inside, leather seats, sun roof, superior suspension (?), and not getting a new "major revision" car in it's first production year.
RE Bear's comments about getting FWD 'cause it's cheaper:
Well, the "base" 3.5L V6 w/SH-AWD would have been cheaper than the Tech FWD V6 TLX that I purchased - so, it's not only a price issue. I didn't really need the "Tech" package, I think that was a mistake, since driving enjoyment means more to me than the different feature package. I do really appreciate a few things about the TLX over the Honda 2.0T "Sport" package, which would have clearly been a better "value" for me - those include: how quiet the TLX is inside, leather seats, sun roof, superior suspension (?), and not getting a new "major revision" car in it's first production year.
This makes perfect sense, and anyone who has opted for the luxury brand from any of the big automakers understands. The product differentiation is far more qualitative than quantitative.
Two cars can have the same features when comparing spec sheets, but one may be much more thoughtfully implemented, tastefully designed, and all in all just appeal to the senses more. More often than not, the luxury version is the one that has these qualities over its more pedestrian brethren.
Sorry poor word choice did not mean to offend. Should have put it in better context. Acura is selling smart luxury & precision performance very heavily in all its advertising. The top of the line car is a V6 SHAWD. The fully optioned V6 SHAWD car is the best fit for the advertising.
On AWD vs RWD. First I am a RWD till I can't get in a street performance car I like. That said using the Porsche 911 example at that level I would get the ESE AWD because the RS RWD is well beyond my level of competence. My daughters Carrera S is AWD & based on personal seat time its much easier to drive quickly than the RWD Carrera S. Porsche has the opposite issue to the TLX in that its very tail heavy so AWD is a big help in stability just like the TLX.
On the other hand the 718 Boxster S (0-60 @ 3.6 1/4 mile 11.9 @ 117MPH top speed 177MPH drag limited) we are going to look at on Tuesday is a rear mid-engine car with the motor mass infront of the rear wheels that creates a whole different set of driving dynamics. That car is a RWD that most reasonably skilled drivers together with its nannies can drive well.
The COBRA fits the description of the 570S as a very light car 2250lbc with 550+ HP at the crank power to weight ratio 4.0:1 compared to the McLaren 570S 5.6:1 Its a very dangerous car to drive with no nannies to bail you out. One tag line for up powered COBRAs is "treat me with respect or I will kill you". Very much an acquired taste. If an AWD system would have fit I would have built it that way with a 7DCT.
So what's the point as my friend says. Up to a certain point in power RWD is a lot more fun to play with above a certain point it gets dangerous. The holes in the donut are as you move away from a 50/50 weight distribution the power limit falls. Driver skill (training not bar room bragging) can raise or lower the power point. Mid engine cars will extend the power point above front or rear engine cars regardless of weigh distribution (polar moment of inertia).
Non-pro, non-track day regulars, non-club racers, non-Auto-X competitors an AWD will always drive better then a FWD for 90% of drivers
How does the TLX rank as far as being able to push a car to the point where you can feel you're starting to slip a little, but that's OK? I'm not terribly knowledgeable in that area, but I read that a car like the Mitsubishi VR 3000GT, for example, is "too easy to drive fast" without giving you those clues that maybe you're pushing to hard for the roads/conditions/driver skill. Some cars you can start to lose some traction and you're OK, you just back off a little because you know you're not on a race track and you might not walk away if you wrap your car around a tree/pole/concrete divider...
I wanna have some fun, but I don't want to die before my kids are off to college. You could say that I've already used up my share of "must have had a guardian angel how the fuck did he not die" incidents when I was younger and I'm not wanting to push my luck these days.
Ack - I still can't edit my posts - I wanted to add that in my ~1999 VW GTi I felt like I could easily loose a little grip on an on/off ramps and have no worries of losing control completely - as a general rule, if the ramp said "35 MPH" I'd take it at about 70 to make it fun.
12-13-2017, 01:11 PM
