CheeseyPoofs McNut

I haven't seen any car get a perfect review. Some people report vibrations, some report a lag with the 9 speed with downshifting, one person just posted an issue with car play, etc. But overall, from 2016 and on, the reviews I've seen have been good.

BEAR-AvHistory

Here is the issue. The marketing department will be happy to tell you 2017 sales are up 2% if the trend holds. But like all who want to present a happy face picture they will ignore that 2016 sales were down 21% or 10,000 units from 2015. Sales analyses Is all about trends. The trends for the TLX right now are not good & that's not bashing its just stating something that a 5 year old could see.

47,000 (2015 not must in discounts) units to 37,000 (2016 a bit more in discounts) units to 3X,000 (2017 quite a bit more in discounts) units does not make for a vibrant sales outlook unless you are a direct competitor. Instead of bring apologists for the incompetents running Acura I don't understand why more owners are not totally pissed off at a once excellent #1 brand in its market being trashed by its own management.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I guess we're wired differently because I couldn't give a crap about the brand. Not just Acura but any brand. I'm a consumer - I vote with my feet. If I don't like a product I don't pay for it, I don't feel the need to get upset about a company unless they screw me over. And if I feel they did that I move on. I think Acura is a company trying to sell cars and make money just like all the other car companies out there. There's nothing personal to get upset about. Frankly there are a ton of great cars out there today, from econoboxes to real sport sedans, why get hung up on Acura?

BEAR-AvHistory

We are wired differently in what we want is a car but not in brand loyalty. My first car of my own was a FORD currently FORD, BMW, Genesis & Mazda. In-between I have owned cars from the all US majors except Chrysler, Japanese, German, British, Swedish & probably some I don't remember.

That said a overwhelming majority of TLX owners are Honda people from the beginning. With repeat buyers being their life's blood. They have not been great a growing the brand beyond the repeat model. So when they are loosing a large percent of that "loyal" base, customers who are never coming back they have big problems.

One of the reasons I like this site is a past history of 30 or so years in marketing which has treated me pretty well. It just surprises me of the passivity of the true Honda/Acura base at what is happing. You IIRC made a comment its not about performance anymore. I would agree that the car is not about performance any more & performance for a good price is what separated Acura from Accord in the past. What is the reason to buy a Acura that performs like an Accord but costs more? Some brands can pull that off but those brands have image & cache that Acura does not have.

txl2017

Because people buy a car to fit their needs with their budget, and then they want to enjoy it. There might have been a more glorious day for TLX or Acura, but why bemoaning over the "spilled milk" instead making the most of what you have at hand? I don't know what the Acura management is thinking, but if it makes sense for them to continue and the production, what can people who don't like the car do other than simply moving on to a greener grassland?

pyrodan007

Simply because people wanted quality, not indifference in a product. Acura's aren't cheap, I'd expect more to keep me interested. If I wanted problems I'd lease a German...I did and guess what, it works! Not the you're using it wrong from corporate BS.

If the TLX works for people, all good. A grand success it is not, sales are down compared to my beloved TL and TSX.

AZuser

Only if you're looking at Canadian sales. But overall, they're still on the decline.

pyrodan007

Not to forget it's a new model. Would expect an increase, not the same.

AZuser

Point out the car's flaws, explain how and where improvements could be made, let Acura know what they've been and continue to be doing wrong. But somehow some people here think that's bashing.

BEAR-AvHistory

Problem is people tend to take car stuff personally investing a lot of emotion & self image in what they drive. Its like you are kicking their dog. Someone can think whatever I drive sucks. What difference does it make to me if someone I don't even know does not like things about my cars.

One thing people here don't understand is I would like Acura to succeed. Its good for the economy. Every auto workers supports X number of other jobs. While HONDA is dicking around with their finger up their butt they are reducing production schedules because of shortfalls in sales projections. When they reduce production people on the line get laid off & that's not good for anyone.

My old man was a welder so I have a reasonably good personal grasp of how families are effected by production cut backs.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I bought my first Honda right out of college (1984 Honda Accord LX) before they were cool. Well okay, maybe they've never been cool. I've never had a perfect Honda and I've had a handful of Accords from then until my 2013 Accord. But - they've always been what I consider to be very good cars. I was tired of the "firm" ride on the Accord and wanted something nicer so I bought the TLX. The TLX fits what I was looking for, rides nice, is quiet, and is more refined than my Accord was. Not by leaps and bounds, but definitely nicer. I'm pretty much the target market for the current TLX (I don't really care about horespower or skidpad numbers) which explains why I'm happy with mine. That said - I was all set to buy a Lexus but I just couldn't get over the God awful front end on the car. Nothing against Honda - I still think they make very good cars - but the Lexus checked more boxes for me with the one big exception. I don't feel any loyalty to Honda, I've paid them for everyone of my cars and promoted them to my friends who ask. But I wouldn't think twice about buying another brand if it's a better fit for me.

I completely get that Internet car forums are mostly filled with car enthusiasts. And it makes sense that an enthusiast, for the most part, may not be excited by the current TLX. I also agree that the Acura of today isn't the same as the Acura of 10 years ago - they clearly makde business decisions that they felt (right or wrong) were good that many enthusiasts don't like. More than a few bought a 2015 based on reputation and got burned - and many of them will move on. Bad business for Acura no doubt.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

It's a zero sum game. If Acura loses a sale another brand gains a sale. There's no effect on the economy as a whole, no?

AZuser

Another brand may gain the sale, but it can still affect the U.S. economy when that other brand manufactures their car overseas.

Made in America: Jeep, Ford, Honda models rank as the biggest domestic drivers of the auto industry

What brands do people move to from Acura? BMW? Mercedes? Audi? Lexus?

boe_d

I can't seem to find the goldilocks car.

I love the reliability of Honda (not perfect but very good - problems usually resolved with a recall).
Anything that is in the shop more than once every 5 years is too often. Other than maintenance on my TL e.g. oil changes, I haven't had to replace any fuel pumps, fuel filters etc.etc. that my friend who keeps buying Jeep or Chrysler seems to suffer. I have over 100k on my car and the original breaks are still in good shape.
I want reasonably good acceleration - anything over 7.5 0-60 is too slow but I don't need 0-60 in 3 (I wouldn't complain).
I want a car under 50K.
I love almost everything about the Accord including the hybrid but I would like a little more luxury to the seats. The new 2018 model is great - can't wait for the hybrid to be released although that is probably about 6 months away and I try to avoid first year anything mechanical. I have a feeling it may get better MPG and better acceleration than the 2017 which is really nice.
The Lexus ES hybrid is nice but the acceleration is a little weak. The Lexus IS hybrid a nice car for the smaller spots in LA but it isn't sold in the US and the acceleration sucks.
So basically I just want a luxury version of the Accord with a little nicer styling - definitely not anyone who worked on the 4th gen TL or the TLX

TacoBello

Audi A4 is your answer

txl2017

^ This!

boe_d

I like a lot about the A4 but I am very concerned about reliability. Everyone I know who has an audi says to lease them and dump them as soon as the lease is over. I tend to keep cars for about 10 years.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its not zero sum to the people in Ohio. People in South Carolina might be happy if they chose an X3 as a replacement. Also you will have keepers, Honda/Acura people who don't like the new products & will hold the old instead of buying, People who have an Acura TLX budget & buy a CPO of a more upscale brand. None of these creates new car build jobs here. Someone going from an Accord or TLX to a true import does nothing but increase our negative balance of trade problem.

Many more possibilities than a one for one US built product zero sum. I was a import buyer so my 3 buys since I left Acura were lost to the US. If they had a product I liked in the G4TL that would have been a fresh US sale & possibly 2 more follow ons. Loosing me on the 4G was something that happed a lot of people causing the loss of one out of every two prior sales. Most who have posted are bought other brands & a good chunk were imports.

quantum7

In the exact same shoes. It used to be easy to buy a new car....just get the latest Acura (only Acura since 1988). A luxury Accord just might be an Accord for me. Honda seems to have upped their game with the 10th gen. I was behind a 1.5t Sport on the highway last week and the rear end looks much better in person than in the pics that I am seeing online. I need a moderately sporty, reliable commuter with pretty good mileage and a few nice options. I love my 3G but at some point I will need a new ride. Would love it to be Acura but not sure they have what I need.

boe_d

I get where you are coming from- my first new new car was a Honda civic which was such a huge step up from my previous two used ford escorts. I had that about a decade and go the Acura TL and have NO regrets on either vehicle. At least you have a 3G TL - those IMHO were the best looking of the Acura sedans. I'm sure if they tried they could make a great TL(X) out of a new 10G accord if they put just a small amount of effort into it and tried not to beat it with a fugly stick.

kurtatx

Recent metrics suggest you shouldn't be concerned about Audi reliability any longer. I have a lease because I flip cars frequently, but I'm thinking my next purchase will be the longer term Audi for me. This A4 is just THAT good.

boe_d

Thanks. I hope your right but I've had my current Acura 17 years and other than oil changes and a 70,000 mile checkup I've done squat for maintenance. I did have the transmission replaced under recall. I had my Civic for a decade - no recalls so even less time for service. I really like a lot about the Audi but don't know if I feel that confident until people who've had the A4 a decade can say it is that reliable. It may very well be but I don't know if there is enough evidence for that amount of time to say that yet.

pyrodan007

I would lease to buy, you're the best used owner since you know exactly what happened. Based on rates, no real reason to buy versus lease today. Regarding the A4, absolutely love it compared to my 15 TLX. Faster and I still managed to get 34mpg on a recent highway trip. Without the constant fear of being hit on lane changes, always flooring it and immediately going. Crisp gear changes, wilth just a little turbo lag before 1500 rpm. Best I ever did in my TLX was 30mpg, non-turbo lag garbage gear changes and all.

Not to mention the inside is absolutely gorgeous at night with Technik package!

gkon

Finally saw my first A-spec in Chicago the other night. It was night and drizzling, as I was waiting at a traffic light to turn left, I noticed a white car in the left turn lane on the street I was getting ready to turn onto and told myself that's a great looking car and as he completed the turn I picked up the TLX tail lights, long story short, it was a great looking car.

Nick

BEAR-AvHistory

Think AUDI has the best implementation of the glass cockpit so far. Passed on BMW's version because it was basically a duplicate of the analog gauge set with more color. Use the HUD most of the time anyway.

BEAR-AvHistory

Talking about competition across the board Chevy just introduced its new halo car the Corvette StingRay ZL1 in Dubai. 755BHP 750FT-LBS & 211MPH V-Max. Not as fast as the Koenigsegg 277MPH but not bad for a Chevy.

hadokenuh

Sorry for running off topic but I don't understand how people say Audi (A4) is reliable?

3-5 years ago, they were still POS (sorry, very unreliable). So even if they turned around 3-5 years ago, there is still NOT enough LONG TERM evidence to show they are reliable. Meaning they are able to run past 7 years or 100K miles with minimal repairs and scheduled maintenance.

The "Initial Quality" ranking from some press is BS in my opinion. I called it. Yes, it means SOME thing but the top "initial" quality ranking doesn't mean LONG TERM at all.

So if your definition of "reliable" is car runs with minimal problem in 4 years/50K miles, then pretty much all cars nowadays are reliable.

In my opinion, to see which car has better long term reliability, one needs to look at its resale value at 3 years and at 5 years. Why some have 50% 3-year residual, while some have 60%? There are other factors but resale value is IMO a major one.

AZuser

pyrodan007

Riiigggghhttttt.....and how scientific is this. At least surveys involve people's experience, no matter the sample size. Many good cars drop because of other factors, in no way are they less reliable.

hadokenuh

IMO resale value shows how much life left a car has. Why do you think a 5 year old Camry XLE (with ~30K MSRP) is sold for about the same as a 5 year old BMW 5-series (50K+ MSRP)?????

I thought resale value being correlated with reliability is common sense. I guess not.

BEAR-AvHistory

Expect its a factor but not the only one. Think the 3 /5 year price has a lot of components that change in importance based on the cars original target audience & who the likely buyer is.

Just some random thoughts:

The new car sales record. If it did not sell well when new there should be no expectation of a high price down the road.

Second had luxury cars will not appeal to luxury car buyers & have to be down priced to suit the new demographic that will buy it.

Some cars are gotta have it no matter what like Porsche so they hold price very well.

Some cars are tagged early on as going to be collectable so they will hold price like the small BMW 1M.

Badge. Some recognized badged cars at the lower price end to start with will appeal to a broader audience than their high priced stablemates.

Think based on the car these factors can all shift around in importance to the potential buyer base. A low income buyer looking for transportation for work need reliability no matter what, while a young guy with money in his pocket looking for a hot ride will be more tolerant of a cars reliability record if its a high performer in its class. A middle income guy looking for a sporty family car will have totally different set of priorities.

AZuser

If resale value = reliability, then the Acura RDX, Lexus HS, and Inifiniti Q60 must be unreliable.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...alue/93715126/

Reliability is just a part of what goes into resale value.

hadokenuh

I agree. And I knew that someone would bring up collectible/exotic/the like cars into the discussion. I should have mentioned it but I think we are only talking about mainstream/commodity cars here.



That's what I said in my post:

txl2017

I suppose at three years old, these cars have to depreciate more to differentiate from the new or near new counterparts of their own. (Edit: And consider the aggressive discounts often offered for the new cars!) They are not so expensive as new to begin with after all. I'd expect they'd hold more value as they are older, say 5 to 8 years?

Saintor

Then you should avoid those cars.

Too often, they are kinda hit or miss . My last German car that I kept more than 8 years cost more than 6K in nonsense repairs (exluding maintenance). Got rid of it for my 2016 (it is not that far ago)

Germans push the envelope of innovation hard, at the detriment of long term reliability and can quickly become money pits. Asian car makers are far more conservative and crash-test their designs just better.

pyrodan007

2015 TLX, they suck just as much as everyone else...avoid Acura too with your logic. Lease ALL cars

BEAR-AvHistory

Acura is an American car company owned by a Japanese company.

The TLX is an American car, designed in Torrance CA. & manufactured in Marysville, Ohio with a V6/I4 engine from Lincoln AL or Anna OH. The unfortunate 9ZF along with 95% of its parts are also sourced in the US.

"Acura is an American brand," Yoshiharu Yamamoto said during a drive event at Honda Motor Co.'s nearby proving ground in northern Japan, just days before his retirement was announced by the company as part of a top management overhaul that included the ousting of CEO Takanobu Ito.

But during his recent interview, Yamamoto said if Acura doesn't evolve into a global brand, the marque's business model is going to "get tough. "The problem: American engineers have tunnel vision for the gigantic U.S. market"

They should listen to Yamamoto since predicting big future things runs in the family. After the Dec 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor attack his fear about "waking a sleeping giant" turned quickly into a nightmare for the Japanese.

As a point of interest the HONDA corporate jet is built in Greensboro NC with the jet engines coming from just up the road in Burlington NC. So they do look to the US to build a quality product

MTD

So now that the Accord thread is closed, I guess all the gomers will flock to here.

pyrodan007

On the flip side, I also see the same 5 or so Aspec owners continuously trying to praise the car and say we're haters or gomers or whatever the term is for non-owners....I can also call you a gomer for sticking with Acura, but I won't and take back my comment.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Keep the personal attacks out of your comments please.