iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I am well aware of the trend.

And that's exactly my point. All of these cars have been competitive for over a decade now, and even if we count the fleet sales, overall, they will can't match the Accord or Camry. Accord is probably a bad example since it doesn't do fleet sales. It's not an excuse. It's just a fact that Honda doesn't do much, if any fleet sales. Can't really have an apple to orange comparison. Sure, we can blame Honda for that, no problem. The point is, we need to be looking at the figures in a way that makes sense. If others want to do the fleet sales game, and don't care about resale value and what not, sure, that's their thing.

In looking at the Camry, where they also do some fleet sales, they are still hovering above 400k whenever a new model comes out, and drops to high 300's when the model gets old. The other ones are just not that close.

I think we are going slightly off topic now regarding the Accord/Camry vs their competition. The point I was making is that, these two cars, and also arguably the Altima, have been strong for decades. There's nothing really wrong with the other cars in this segment, but they don't quite match the sales of the 2/3 cars. This is similar to the ES/3 series/C Class. These are the go-to vehicles in this segment. The TL had its moment when the others such as the CTS, IS, G35, etc weren't as established. But once those brands got their shxt together, the glorified Accord idea no longer works.

DLM1213

Slightly off topic but relevant to this thread. I live in the Cincinnati, Ohio area and we just drove up and back from Chicago this week. On the drive up and back and the week we stayed in Chicago, we did not see any 2018 TLX on the road. The ones we saw in Chicago were at a dealer on the way up to Six Flags Amusement Park. I have yet to see 2018 TLX in the Cincinnati area either, it would appear to me this model is just not selling well either for whatever reason. From following this forum it sounds like there could be many reasons it is not selling, not to mention the change in the market. Makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on buying a new one and just hang on to my 3rd gen TL. Interesting in Chicago considering the price of a Tesla...I would say they are selling very well in the Chicago area.

TacoBello

I haven't seen a new one on the roads here yet either. I've been noticing more of the 2015-2017 units though.

Sloppy305

I have only seen one in Miami and just this week I saw one in Denver.

It doesn't bother me that I haven't seen more of them on the streets, in fact I like that. I already know what the car brings to the table and I like it. I'm not a horsepower hungry driver and I can definitely appreciate a quiet comfortable and still somewhat sporty car. I Test drove it three times and have been lurking and reading website reviews and you tube almost daily...my mind is 99.99% made up.

The main reason why I don't have one parked in my garage is because my local dealer hasn't been able to match my SHAWD request.
I would also like a few hundreds (hoping for thousands) off MSRP...but initially that was not the top priority. However, the latest low sale numbers give me leverage for negotiating a couple dollars off.

Speed_Racer

If you lease right now, there is a $3000 leasing incentive. Doesn't appear to be anything for financed ones, but the slow sales should give you some leverage to get some off msrp.

alpha0

Where did you get that? I dont see any on Acura website and i got quotes where lease sale price was 1500$ less than purchase.

BC01191980

I saw a few in the bay area

I am turned off by the diamond grill

Also the power train is the same so it's nothing special

I am not sure why all car manufacturers are going with the massive grill

Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes, and even BMW are making them bigger

pyrodan007

To this day, I have only seen three 18s in Montreal. I'm pretty sure the 1st and 3rd occurrence was the same black car since in the same area.

On a side note, while at Infiniti yesterday for a Q50 test drive there were 2 TLX owners (myself included) looking. Not a scientific method but based on the number of TLXs, interesting occurrence and further proof that Acura dropped the ball with the MMC.

Very interesting deals for the Q50 right now. Was offered a Red Sport (tech + driver assist packages included) for 48 months at 0% for 750$ per, all in. The Aspec Elite goes for around $740 ... very tough sale for Acura. Needless to say I put a deposit down for a blue one, provided they find one (nothing signed yet). My search continues next week at Audi, feeling I'll have less chance for deals though.

Trade in for my 15 TLX Elite is $28k, on the low side (negotiation to be continued) but max is only 30.5K from KBB. Car only has 9k KM, terrible resale value.

BEAR-AvHistory

So much has changed in the past 10 years. We have gone from 5 TL's at the neighborhood traffic light to 5 Audi's. MDX is still doing pretty well but the only TL/TLX I generally see is my across the street neighbors 4G.

BC01191980

I am seeing more Audi on the road also

The a5 sportback might be my next car although I don't see many of those since it's a new model.

What is funny is that my wife's friend saw my tlx and said nice and then asked if it had turbo. I said unfortunately not.

Speed_Racer

That's the game they play. You can find them on the Edmunds site. I should have stated, it also depends on the model, but SH-AWD ASpecs are $3000 right now. They've been spot on so far with all incentives. They have some kind of source that provides them all of the incentives offered. You won't see these on the Acura website because they are factory to dealer incentives. In theory they don't need to pass them on to the customer, but if you mention them a dealer would be insane to not offer it to you. If they balk at it, then just go to another dealer.

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...-and-prices/p7

alpha0

Thanks. If i decide to go with TLX Aspec, i will purchase it. I hope they come out with some end of summer incentives for purchase / finance!

Tony Pac

I don't even know if Infiniti is profitable anymore. They are giving crazy incentives. My colleague in Montreal is paying $455 for QX50 (pretty loaded one). My brother pays for an Accord Sport $400.
That's the reason Infiniti is having a great year (may be not crazy in Canada but in the US.)

Now you are confirming that for Red Sport $750/month. This is a great price. Impressive.

Tony Pac

Not sure but how come with all these incentives and based on what you saw Infiniti still sold less cars than Acura in Canadian market. Until June 2017, Infiniti sold 6,140 cars whereas Acura sold 9,363 cars. The difference is huge (3,224 cars.) I am still wondering....the math doesn't make sense lol.

pyrodan007

I think it's still due to the connection to Honda where buying an Acura means it'll die in 10+ years. Very interesting since it's not like Infinitis are that bad compared to other Japanese luxury brands. Good question honestly.
I can for sure say that dealership wise, it's vastly superior to Acura. Can only imagine how it is at Lexus. May book an IS350 FSport test drive to see for myself, just for the hell of it!

Now relating to model availability, was told that each Infiniti dealership can only order 2 Red Sports per month. That's why some colors are very hard to find. I can understand why for a 400HP sports car, but it's odd for the Aspec. Mechanically and interior wise, it's not too different to be considered special with a regular TLX, especially when performance is the same. The new seats should be standard on all TLXs IMO. If the Aspec is hard to find now in some markets, imagine the waiting list when the Type S finally comes out. Just food for thought to explain the low MMC TLX sales.

alpha0

I dont think availability is the issue in my area, it is the lack of demand. I went to 2 dealers in last week and there were hardly any other customers looking for sedans.

Tony Pac

I have to Infiniti Westisland and I have to say that the experience was great. For my Acura, I go to Laval and i have no complains. Overall, the Luciani Infiniti is more advanced and renovated compare to Acura.

Good luck with IS350. I know some people don't like the design but I think it's unique and a great car.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Based on the reviews, the engine is the best part of the Q50. Reviews also talk about the quietness and ride comfort being quite good. But most of theme not so happy about the steering feel, the transmission, the dated dash design, and the options.

pyrodan007

Still didn't finalize my choice on the Q50 Red Sport, just seeing if it's possible to find a blue one for now and take it from there.
Related to the Q50's faults, seems like a lot of them are the same as the TLX. Yet everyone thinks the TLX is a good buy, better than the Q50. Just seems odd, the backseat in the TLX is not that much bigger honestly. A lot more practical then a Lexus IS that's for sure.

steve_97060

look at the bright side than, if you get the Infiniti you will have the same things to complain about as the TLX on their forums

pyrodan007

Oh well, would keep me busy at least lol.
Back to sales, did anyone receive an invite related to a sales events next week? Got a flyer and a call today, politely told them to shove it since it's too late. Got nothing when I tried, now dealership suffers.

Speed_Racer

Oct 3, 2017 - TORRANCE, Calif.

• American Honda sets new September records for total vehicle sales (up 6.8%) and total truck sales (up 0.5%)
• Honda Division also nets September records for total vehicles (up 7.4%), cars (up 14.5%) and trucks (up 0.2%); Acura trucks also set new September record (up 2.4%)
• Honda Civic smashes previous best September, jumping 25.8% over 2016
• Honda HR-V sets ninth straight monthly record, gaining 17.1% for best September
• Honda core products Accord, Civic and CR-V combine for nearly 100,000 sales
• Acura MDX has record September as sales jump 8.9%

American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported best-ever September total sales of 142,722 Honda and Acura vehicles, an increase of 6.8 percent vs. September 2016. Honda Division also set a new September record, gaining 7.4 percent on sales of 129,776 units. Honda cars and truck both set September records, with cars gaining 14.5 percent on sales of 69,407, and trucks up 0.2 percent on sales of 60,369 units, even as supplies of key truck models remain tight. Acura Division sales rose 1.0 percent on sales of 12,946 vehicles for the month, with trucks setting a new September record—gaining 2.4 percent on sales of 9,061 units.

Honda
Strong sales of both cars and trucks fired Honda brand sales gains in September, pushing the brand to new records for both. Civic stole the show, posting a 25.8 percent jump for a new September mark, while Accord gained nearly 10 percent for the month despite being at the end of its lifecycle. On the truck side, HR-V extended its streak of record sales months to nine, while Pilot enjoyed a double-digit gain helped by a recent increase in production volume. However, tight supplies of key models checked sales growth with the remainder of the Honda truck lineup.

• Civic sales jumped 25.8 percent on sales of 35,452 to smash its previous September best.
• Accord posted a notable total 29,789 sales for the month, gaining 9.5 percent as it continues to buck industry sales trends even in its final days on the market.
• HR-V also set a new September mark, extending its 2017 record streak to nine months with a gain of 17.1 percent on sales of 8,024 units.
• Sales of Honda's Pilot rose sharply in September, up 11.8 percent on sales of 10,295 while CR-V posted another strong month of 30,956 despite inventory issues.

"Honda is enjoying a sales situation that, while still favoring truck growth, has been punctuated by new strength on the car side of the equation," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president of the Automobile Division of American Honda. "After a strong media launch of the 2018 Accord last week, we're excited to see how this great new car contributes in the coming months."

Acura
Acura sales rose slightly in September, continuing a steady pace driven by the on-going strength of the Acura MDX and RDX and supplemented by continued recent gains by Acura's gateway sedan, the ILX, which has performed well above the industry in the segment. Acura trucks set a new September best, driven by the MDX which also set a September record.

• ILX sales gained for the fourth straight month, rising 33.4 percent on September sales of 1,222.
• With production of the MDX now transferred completely to Ohio, production increases are already reaping benefits as MDX gained 8.9 percent on sales of 5,368 for a new September record.

"Despite softened sales in several key segments where we compete, Acura was able to continue sales gains in September," said Jon Ikeda, vice president & general manager of the Acura division. "With production changes helping our MDX inventory, we will continue efforts to gain sales momentum."

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Now must be a great time to get a deal on a 9th gen Accord as they work on clearing out inventory before the 10th gen hits - bump in Accord sales reflects that.

The lack of discounts on the MMC TLX seems to be reflected too.

boe_d

I think if Acura doesn't replace the TLX soon it will be outsold by the RLX within 2 years coming in just ahead of TSX sales. They better have a new model pronto before the sedan division of Acura disappears.

Saintor

If the TLX went down -16% in September, the Q50 went down even more at -24%. For sure it isn't working for them.

boe_d

Yes and the BMW 4 series went up 60% and the 5 series went up 144%. I'm not sure what the point of people quick on the draw to find another vehicle with bad sales as the TLX continues its losing streak month to month - some cars went up in sales and some went down. I think from my first statement not all sedan sales are down. I'm going out on a limb but I'd say sales for cars people want and can afford went up and cars people don't want sales decreased. I'm sure some people will believe that Acura sales are down due to poor sales promotions, lack of stock, Justin Bieber's plummeting stardom or the migration of yellow warblers. Others might believe it is because the car is not visually appealing and has become dated in a number of the features. I can't say for sure where the problem is to blame but as much as I hate Bieber I'm thinking this is one of the few things that isn't his fault.

ronricks

Was at the dealership yesterday getting my car serviced and spoke to the sales manager. He said after the release of the aspec TLX they were getting 'decent' foot traffic and some interest but that has really cooled off now. Said people liked the updates but felt it wasn't enough and most are waiting to see what the next gen TLX holds. They have no issues moving RDX and MDX.

Sloppy305

Just like August's numbers, September numbers are music to my ears.
When time comes November-December to pull the trigger I (and any future buyers) will have more leverage when it comes to negotiating.

Also..As a future Aspec buyer...I want that somewhat "exclusive" feeling. So it doesn't bother me at all that I don't see any other Aspecs on the street. In fact I like it.

BEAR-AvHistory

Pretty sure the 4 jumped because people were waiting on the mid cycle upgrade which included the new engine & modified suspension. Major performance boost moving from my 435MPPK/MPE to the 440MPPSK/THP.

C&D instrumented test on the base engine with all season tires produced 0-60 in 4.4, 5-60 in 5.0, 1/4 mile in 12.9.

I extended my 435 lease a few months to wait on the 440 to be available as did a number of others on the BMW forum.

The 5 series is an all new generation & again there was a built up demand for it. For both cars it will level out as the demand is blotted up. I would hope that ACURA puts a good effort into the generation 2 TLX, was disappointed to the A-Spec numbers. Looks like rather then extending the market it just got the existing high end buyers to add a few K to their buy.

Tony Pac

My prediction:
October 2017 sales prediction!
Acura Brand: 14,000
TLX: 2,750

boe_d

Ahhh - a guessing challenge!?! I'll go October - TLX 2,324

Sloppy305

I think the TLX sales will be up based only on what I have seen on the streets lately (Miami & Denver) and also due to some of the leasing deals approaching 40k.

Im still waiting for "the reason for the season" event...(crossing fingers).

AZuser

Up versus the 2,543 in September 2017, but down versus the 2,714 in October 2016

Civic2TSX

I saw a Rick Case commercial today for 10K off of MSRP for a 2017 TLX.

BEAR-AvHistory

So much for the dealers that this was a high demand product & they would not budge off MSRP or a slight feel good discount. You think the blue A=Spec were being held back to create an artificial demand?

sinain

Not budge off MSRP for a "2017"????

txl2017

According to Edmunds, there are a total of 274 new 2017 TLX within the radius of 3500 miles of where I am. And there's none in my state. So good luck finding that deal somewhere in North America!

BEAR-AvHistory

2018 A-Spec.

pyrodan007

I have a feeling sales will be below 'average' this month. Just got a call from dealership asking me about the Aspec. Broke the guy's hearth saying I got an A4 and wasn't looking at Acura anymore. Based on their 'discount', had no interest in going back for negotiations.
He called me back 4 months after my Aspec test drive and at the end of the month, looks pretty bad especially with the new Accord kicking in full gear.

pyrodan007

Ignore, my bad