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That is exactly what I am saying. When you introduce more variables (i.e more cars) into an equation, you introduce a greater potential to have issues. Brands like CR that rely on self selection to gage issues (I think JD does the same thing?) rely on people with issues to speak up and there is more people who have the probability of having issues when more cars are sold and therefore it looks worse than the fewer people complaining for brands that sell less cars. If these dependability surveys are not looking at the total cars sold vs problems, how can they make a reliable calculation on the number of issues? I guess what I am trying to get at, is that in order for these numbers to have any validity, you have to look at all variables and you have to standardize data and to do so you must look at ALL the data. Not some.
How can you make a "per car" basis when you don't look at all cars? Please define per car basis for me.
OK, I think you have a misunderstanding of how the CR and JD Power surveys are conducted. The problems aren't self-reported by any ol' customer. Only customers that are part of the sample group can report problems, so yes, CR and JD know just how many cars are in the denominator of the equation.
If these studies accepted input from any customer, then yes, you would need to know the total number of cars. Although, even if that was the case, you can still determine the total number of cars via sales data, DMV/registration data, insurance data, etc.
OK, I think you have a misunderstanding of how the CR and JD Power surveys are conducted. The problems aren't self-reported by any ol' customer. Only customers that are part of the sample group can report problems, so yes, CR and JD know just how many cars are in the denominator of the equation.
If these studies accepted input from any customer, then yes, you would need to know the total number of cars. Although, even if that was the case, you can still determine the total number of cars via sales data, DMV/registration data, insurance data, etc.
This still doesn't get around the issue of small sample size and it fundamentally is self selection because CR chooses a group of people, but people have to accept being chosen.
You can determine the total number of cars sold, but you can't possibly track all of them. My whole issue is that there are too many variables at play to simply trust a small sample size (even 5k cars is a small sample size for cars that sell 200k a year+) or the people who are reporting issues. As mentioned above, trips to a dealer also count against dependability and reliability in these publications. That doesn't make sense for me personally because a rattle (while infuriating) has nothing to do with dependability or reliability in my opinion.
Also, companies like BMW are notorious for having no issues for the first couple years, then shit hits the fan and it all falls apart. How long is this period of sampling? Annual? To top it off, I believe that to some effect people who buy porsches are probably too proud to complain of issues on a car they paid a lot of money on and therefore it looks a lot better than it is....this theory I'll admit is more iffy.
This still doesn't get around the issue of small sample size and it fundamentally is self selection because CR chooses a group of people, but people have to accept being chosen.
You can determine the total number of cars sold, but you can't possibly track all of them. My whole issue is that there are too many variables at play to simply trust a small sample size (even 5k cars is a small sample size for cars that sell 200k a year+) or the people who are reporting issues. As mentioned above, trips to a dealer also count against dependability and reliability in these publications. That doesn't make sense for me personally because a rattle (while infuriating) has nothing to do with dependability or reliability in my opinion.
Also, companies like BMW are notorious for having no issues for the first couple years, then shit hits the fan and it all falls apart. How long is this period of sampling? Annual? To top it off, I believe that to some effect people who buy porsches are probably too proud to complain of issues on a car they paid a lot of money on and therefore it looks a lot better than it is....this theory I'll admit is more iffy.
Basic surveying works by randomly polling every demographic and using the sample size. The way same way Nielson ratings are conducted for tv viewership, you have a sample size and extrapolate based on that, and it's remarkable how accurate it can get. 5k is a pretty large sample. Depending on the number of factors anything over 30 samples can be statistically significant. But with 5k you are definitely in the good size sampling territory. You're right in that of course the more samples the more accurate of an estimation you can make. Looks like CR gets about 200-300 surveys returned for each model and receive around 500k total surveys back.
Even tech/manufacturing companies to test variances, quality, etc do a sampling of several hundred to several thousand units. Even if they produce a million or more units.
CR(like many other companies/ratings systems like Press Ganey for health care) sends out surveys randomly for people to fill out. I believe based on if they've registered a new vehicle in x number of years. They then account for response bias (aka the ppl most likely to respond are ones that have had very poor experiences or ones with incredibly good experiences, b/c typically ppl who have neither fantastically poor or fantastically good experiences on a product don't respond to a survey). Then of course outliers may be removed.
Basic surveying works by randomly polling every demographic and using the sample size. The way same way Nielson ratings are conducted for tv viewership, you have a sample size and extrapolate based on that, and it's remarkable how accurate it can get. 5k is a pretty large sample. Depending on the number of factors anything over 30 samples can be statistically significant. But with 5k you are definitely in the good size sampling territory. You're right in that of course the more samples the more accurate of an estimation you can make. Looks like CR gets about 200-300 surveys returned for each model and receive around 500k total surveys back.
Even tech/manufacturing companies to test variances, quality, etc do a sampling of several hundred to several thousand units. Even if they produce a million or more units.
CR(like many other companies/ratings systems like Press Ganey for health care) sends out surveys randomly for people to fill out. I believe based on if they've registered a new vehicle in x number of years. They then account for response bias (aka the ppl most likely to respond are ones that have had very poor experiences or ones with incredibly good experiences, b/c typically ppl who have neither fantastically poor or fantastically good experiences on a product don't respond to a survey). Then of course outliers may be removed.
I still have 05 g35x in my garage. Besides 6 wheel bearings and lower control arms, nothing was changed.
I was looking to buy for something sporty, fun to drive and reliable. Not to big or too small. Still have 2012 Acura MDX, so dont need a suv. THERE IS NOTHING available from Acura current lineup at all.
Germans is not an option and I hate Lexus mouse controller bulshiet.
SO, I bought 2017 Infiniti QX50 awd. It is not to big, fun to drive drives like a sports car. 0-60 in 5.5. VQ37VHR engine and 7 speed auto is great combination.
he's not talking about their reliability. He's talking about seeing them everywhere.
Is it fair to say that the reason there might be less G's on the road is because they are the quintessential boy racer car? In my group of friends/friends of friends alone there was about 5-7 G's at one point ranging from 2003-2009 and G35-G37XS. I seen first hand the way these cars are driven, it's absolutely intense and honestly my friend at one point did like 3 donuts during a damp summer day in his G35. They get thrashed ALL day long. So the general affordability coupled with RWD is what might be doing them in.
I'm not seeing any cup holders in the Alfa.. Deal breaker.
Ask the Germans how well that worked for them in the early 2000's. My 2004 touareg had "cupholders" that were about 2" deep that were thankfully revised for 2007 to actually hold cups. The q7 only had one cup holder unless the storage bin was opened, X3 had I think either 1 or none. So good luck to alfa.
Basic surveying works by randomly polling every demographic and using the sample size. The way same way Nielson ratings are conducted for tv viewership, you have a sample size and extrapolate based on that, and it's remarkable how accurate it can get. 5k is a pretty large sample. Depending on the number of factors anything over 30 samples can be statistically significant. But with 5k you are definitely in the good size sampling territory. You're right in that of course the more samples the more accurate of an estimation you can make. Looks like CR gets about 200-300 surveys returned for each model and receive around 500k total surveys back.
Even tech/manufacturing companies to test variances, quality, etc do a sampling of several hundred to several thousand units. Even if they produce a million or more units.
CR(like many other companies/ratings systems like Press Ganey for health care) sends out surveys randomly for people to fill out. I believe based on if they've registered a new vehicle in x number of years. They then account for response bias (aka the ppl most likely to respond are ones that have had very poor experiences or ones with incredibly good experiences, b/c typically ppl who have neither fantastically poor or fantastically good experiences on a product don't respond to a survey).
CR does not select random people. It sends out an annual survey on numerous things (cars, appliances, electronics, etc.) to all it subscribers every year. I am not sure what, if any, math they then infer or extrapolate from the responses. So one could argue that by nature the survey is biases toward the type of people that subscribe to CR.
CR does not select random people. It sends out an annual survey on numerous things (cars, appliances, electronics, etc.) to all it subscribers every year. I am not sure what, if any, math they then infer or extrapolate from the responses. So one could argue that by nature the survey is biases toward the type of people that subscribe to CR.
Which is fundamentally self selection. Therefore it's a process of incorrectly using stats.
I don't care what that ranking says, there is no way Audi is more reliable than Lexus or #1. Infiniti's reliability issues came due to their crappy infotainment system that kept failing. Again i'd rather not have back up lines than have my check engine light come on along with engine failure, which is much more likely in an Audi. However because Audi's tend to be leased people get rid of them right when the warranty is about to expire. Lets see how reliable Audi is for most people after that warranty expires.
Cup holders have never been the Germans strong suit. Only the last one I bought going back to 2004 has had decent cup holders
Neither is German A/C. It never gets cool enough. Japanese are reasonably good, but nothing makes you feel like you're in a meat locker better than American car A/C's.
I don't care what that ranking says, there is no way Audi is more reliable than Lexus or #1. Infiniti's reliability issues came due to their crappy infotainment system that kept failing. Again i'd rather not have back up lines than have my check engine light come on along with engine failure, which is much more likely in an Audi. However because Audi's tend to be leased people get rid of them right when the warranty is about to expire. Lets see how reliable Audi is for most people after that warranty expires.
Given a lot of the driving dynamics of the Q50 are computer driven (especially the drive-by-wire steering), that's not a good combination. Nissan, of the big 3 Japanese brands, is 3rd by a WIDE margin. Nissans\Infiniti's are fun to drive, but that don't last far beyond 5 to 7 years without something major going wrong.
I don't care what that ranking says, there is no way Audi is more reliable than Lexus or #1. Infiniti's reliability issues came due to their crappy infotainment system that kept failing. Again i'd rather not have back up lines than have my check engine light come on along with engine failure, which is much more likely in an Audi. However because Audi's tend to be leased people get rid of them right when the warranty is about to expire. Lets see how reliable Audi is for most people after that warranty expires.
Lots of comments on longevity. Cant speak to anything other than what I had or my family had. Most of the personal DD I keep 3/4 years generally because I like new cars & its not a financial drain to indulge myself. Only long term German I had was a 2004 330CI ZHP 6MT Convertible. Was held for 10 years about 125/130K miles again no major expenses with the car. Have a number of cars, two FORDS with over 100K miles on them now & they also have not had any unusual expenses.
I think the whole you car will die when the warranty runs out is way overblown especially HONDA fans who prefer to forget all the transmission troubles going back a number of generations in both HONDA & ACURA cars. My daughters Accord AT6 transmission was replaced under the legal settlement in the class action suite & my TL 6MT trans was rebuilt at 22K miles under a TSB. There are contemporaneous posts on this in the 3G forum around 2007 or 8.
Personally I believe most cars are pretty reliable overall but none are bulletproof. Additionally you are more likely to get a looser first year out of the box.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-24-2017 at 05:33 PM.
Neither is German A/C. It never gets cool enough. Japanese are reasonably good, but nothing makes you feel like you're in a meat locker better than American car A/C's.
This times 5 Billion. Out of 6 German cars I have driven, not ONE could provide actual A/C. Always that shitty ass sort of cool air. Never ever ever cold air. My first 5 vehicles were German and not once was the A/C satisfactory. Fun learning you have no A/C in plus 30 degrees celsius weather.....rolling eyes very hard.
Which is fundamentally self selection. Therefore it's a process of incorrectly using stats.
Maybe, but CR readers are likely those more concerned about reliability thus, their opinion may be worth it. I have found the ratings to be inline with some of my own experiences and reviews and comments I have read from other owners of various vehicles. It is about as good as reading reviews in Amazon or any web forum. Yet many of us make purchase decisions based on reading other's experiences and feedback.
Maybe, but CR readers are likely those more concerned about reliability thus, their opinion may be worth it. I have found the ratings to be inline with some of my own experiences and reviews and comments I have read from other owners of various vehicles. It is about as good as reading reviews in Amazon or any web forum. Yet many of us make purchase decisions based on reading other's experiences and feedback.
I partially agree with you on that. Yes it is like amazon reviews and yes absolutely I take those reviews into consideration. But I don't recall amazon ranking products on a published list and making it sound 100% accurate. Lol maybe I am biased for not trusting these things myself. I don't know just that having taken a stats course has made me really critical of stuff like this.
^ lot's of q50s in my garage at work, and 2 red sports.
I dont have Q50 I have QX50. IT is basically raised g37 with extra rear leg room in form of the wagon.
It is poor man's Porsche Macan. I can guarantee, nobody in you garage have it
Already order HFC, CAI, Motordyne M370 intake manifold... more to come lol
I dont have Q50 I have QX50. IT is basically raised g37 with extra rear leg room in form of the wagon.
It is poor man's Porsche Macan. I can guarantee, nobody in you garage have it
Already order HFC, CAI, Motordyne M370 intake manifold... more to come lol
I really wanted one of these before I bought my RDX. I just couldn't get over the lowness and it had some major blind spots. I was looking at rhe older ex35 though and it didn't have bliss. However I will tell you one thing, this isn't the poor man's macan, it is the smart man's macan!! I remember sitting in one of these in th showroom and when I was going to buy one and I was blown out of the water, the material quality is TOP NOTCH! Soft touch ALL the way down the doors, it really is an interior that stands tall against the Germans! Solid solid car and from what I understand they can put up a good fight in handling figures!
^^^^^^
Yeah, that was shock for me too, I was not expecting such a material quality... Fit and finish is better than any Acura I have owned before. Made in Japan LOL.
Handling and steering is the same like in g37, so it is one of the best. Will be buying aftermarket sway bars too..
What blind spots? it is pretty much same like MDX. This one is longer compared to EX, so maybe thats way I dont have any problems with blind spots, or maybe just my seating position.
^^^^^^
Yeah, that was shock for me too, I was not expecting such a material quality... Fit and finish is better than any Acura I have owned before. Made in Japan LOL.
Handling and steering is the same like in g37, so it is one of the best. Will be buying aftermarket sway bars too..
What blind spots? it is pretty much same like MDX. This one is longer compared to EX, so maybe thats way I dont have any problems with blind spots, or maybe just my seating position.
Yeah yours is quite a bit longer than the ex35 and the rear doors are stretched WAY more than the older ones so the blind spots are VERY diminished. Also by blindspots I was not just referring to literal blind spots, I was talking about the long hood and narrow rear window making outward visibility a little hard. But thankfully the around view tech is there.
Agreed on better than an Acura, like WAY better than any Acura I have ever sat in and that includes the RLX IMHO. It's just very very solid and well put together. Give us some interior pics man!
Yeah yours is quite a bit longer than the ex35 and the rear doors are stretched WAY more than the older ones so the blind spots are VERY diminished. Also by blindspots I was not just referring to literal blind spots, I was talking about the long hood and narrow rear window making outward visibility a little hard. But thankfully the around view tech is there.
Agreed on better than an Acura, like WAY better than any Acura I have ever sat in and that includes the RLX IMHO. It's just very very solid and well put together. Give us some interior pics man!
Oh yeah, long hood is a b!ch. But hey, it is rear wheel drive platform. You have to pay if you want to play LOL.
I dont really need rear window, I go fast
Pics, maybe later. Dont want to hijack this thread. Just saying, not all infiniti's are bad, or they have bad quality...
Oh yeah, long hood is a b!ch. But hey, it is rear wheel drive platform. You have to pay if you want to play LOL.
I dont really need rear window, I go fast
Pics, maybe later. Dont want to hijack this thread. Just saying, not all infiniti's are bad, or they have bad quality...
Honestly though, before I got my RDX every other vehicle (5 SUV's) was a RWD platform SUV. I feel like infiniti makes the hood long for no reason sometimes. Then again I personally felt like the hood/front end on my MDX was ridiculously long as well.
At 5.4s 0-60, yes you do go fast haha. Also this thread is fairly derailed as it is...until OP comes back that is!
Honestly though, before I got my RDX every other vehicle (5 SUV's) was a RWD platform SUV. I feel like infiniti makes the hood long for no reason sometimes. Then again I personally felt like the hood/front end on my MDX was ridiculously long as well.
At 5.4s 0-60, yes you do go fast haha. Also this thread is fairly derailed as it is...until OP comes back that is!
Yes sir, couple bolt on's, a tune and will be at 300rwhp. Maybe it will become 5 sec car? will see.
Anyways, it is nice, little pocket rocket. Driving experience is excellent, just wished, I could stay with Acura. But like I said, nothing available from Acura right now, what i need/want - fun/sporty.
Last edited by dzionny_dzionassi; 03-24-2017 at 10:30 PM.
Yes sir, couple bolt on's, a tune and will be at 300rwhp. Maybe it will become 5 sec car? will see.
Anyways, it is nice, little pocket rocket. Driving experience is excellent, just wished, I could stay with Acura. But like I said, nothing available from Acura right now, what i need/want - fun/sporty.
Stock 0-60 is 5.4s, I can see a sub 5 seconds with a tune and a couple bolt ons. The VQ37 is a beast and no slouch at all. I totally agree about the disappointment with the direction Acura has chosen to take. There was so much potential honestly. Acura could have had a RWD V8 Vtec power train...man I wish there was a Honda V8.
I too wish I had an Acura as a fun car these days. Don't get me wrong- I adore my Nismo, but I've always been a Honda guy since day 1, 15 years ago. Acura just seems like it should be the grown up version of Honda... But they offer nothing outside of daily drivers (not looking at you, NSX. You don't fit my average man lifestyle).
I'll keep my Acura daily driver probably for another five years. I re-fell in love with it again, after driving so many other vehicles. But not having anything fun is a real damper. I miss the days of absolutely bulletproof, highly desirable and highly stolen fun cars they had. I guess the same can be said about Honda, but it appears they are making a comeback... Just not available to us on the market just yet. Soon though.
Every German car I tested in January had a terrible Cup holder issue.
You get in the car and can practically here the interior designers say "FINE! Jesus! We'll give you a cupholder!"
Mine has side by side cup holders built into the front of the console. Its covered by a tray that lifts out that I usually lay my phone & sun glasses in. When I have a cup I put the phone & glasses in the cubby just in front of it. Cup holder in the 135 sucks its in the console right behind the 6MT stick. Easy to het a hot or cold leg on a shift, really crappy engendering.
I dont have Q50 I have QX50. IT is basically raised g37 with extra rear leg room in form of the wagon.
It is poor man's Porsche Macan. I can guarantee, nobody in you garage have it
Already order HFC, CAI, Motordyne M370 intake manifold... more to come lol
Actually, a poor man's Porsche Macan is a Volkswagon Tiguan. As for not seeing very many others on the road, that's probably a "bad" sign because this is supposed to be a mass produced vehicle and not limited edition. I see very few QX50's... I could probably go 2 months or more without seeing 1 in Los Angeles.
Actually, a poor man's Porsche Macan is a Volkswagon Tiguan. As for not seeing very many others on the road, that's probably a "bad" sign because this is supposed to be a mass produced vehicle and not limited edition. I see very few QX50's... I could probably go 2 months or more without seeing 1 in Los Angeles.
^^^^^
Tiguan is not even coming remotely close to Macan performance wise. Tiguan is FWD platform. Two different worlds.... So actually your statement is wrong LOL
It is like comparing Toyota Corolla to Lexus IS350, or Honda CR-V to BMW X3
03-21-2017, 12:03 PM
where are you getting this information? I see G35 and G37's around EVERYWHERE... also FX35's galore..
