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What did the S-Type have SO MUCH that the A-SPEC doesn't have.
Nothing (just a name).
Originally Posted by pyrodan007
I currently still have a Type-S, and can compare it to the pre-MMC and Aspec. There's a reason why so many people talk about the 'old' Type-S and still really want one. The Aspec itself is just a name too you know.
Type-S: Brembos, heavy steering with hydraulics, carbon fiber interior, limited-slip differential, almost the same engine (difference is no DI), same NAV, same red lighting ... reputation. Not even close to being the same as the Aspec.
A few other things as well, first being an excellent transmission that always hit the right gear, physical gear shifter on the automatic that you could put in manual mode (even though it had the paddle shifters) you could use the gear shift lever to jump up and down gears which most people found nicer than the paddles, a manual shift mode that actually worked perfectly and stayed in that mode till you physically take it out (never would upshift on its own and didnt speed up on downshift), dash that was not injection molded and looked great, more soft touch on the doors panels, type S branded head rests, more HP than the regular TL model, quad exhaust and not just tips that are not even connected to the tailpipes, larger sway bars (aspec only has on the awd variant, real exhaust sound rather than piped in, way better sound system and a navigation system you could set while driving.
I currently still have a Type-S, and can compare it to the pre-MMC and Aspec. There's a reason why so many people talk about the 'old' Type-S and still really want one. The Aspec itself is just a name too you know.
So is Type-S. A bit overrated
Somehow, LSD is counterbalanced by AWD. The rest... bof ... only if Brembo name impresses you. A name *again*.
Somehow, LSD is counterbalanced by AWD. The rest... bof ... only if Brembo name impresses you. A name *again*.
The transmission was light years better and the implementation of the manual shift mode is not even close. Also don't ever try to make a quck K turn with that button shift, you may get killed. Acura would have been well served to use the trans they have in the RDX, it's much smoother and doesnt have the lag which still has not been programmed out of the A-Spec.I have one a deposit on one but they are having trouble locating another dealer to swap with. I did do a long drive in the Aspec and already have a TLX and prior to that had the type S so I have a pretty real perspective on the differences.
On the plus side the A-Spec wheels are nicer than the waffle wheels on the type S and while the type s (at least mine) would run like crap on anything but premium the new TLX handles regular grade without any difference that I can tell and the mpg even driving fairly hard is much better even in Sport mode. I never bother with the normal or econ mode as the lag is worse and if those are the modes you drive in you may as well not bother paying up for the V6
Ideally they would drop the button shift, use the RDX trans and improve the manual shift as it's terrible. Adding a few more HP wouldnt hurt either. TIme will tell how the TLX A Spec goes but used Type S's in decent shape still command decent money. even after 10 years for good reason.
The transmission was light years better and the implementation of the manual shift mode is not even close. Also don't ever try to make a quck K turn with that button shift, you may get kille
Oh... stop it!
The ZF9 is a MUCH better transmission than old 6-s-p used in previous Honda (which failed a lot over much a longer timeframe mind you) - it is very similar to the ZF8 . No comparison. You don't like the delay? Drive it in Sport+ mode.... problem solved, and that was the throttle mapping programming not the transmission.
The ZF9 is a MUCH better transmission than old 6-s-p used in previous Honda (which failed a lot over much a longer timeframe mind you) - it is very similar to the ZF8 . No comparison. You don't like the delay? Drive it in Sport+ mode.... problem solved, and that was the throttle mapping programming not the transmission.
BTW, I use manual shift mode daily on my TLX .
I would take the 5sp from my Type S or the 6sp from my TL any day (including higher gas bills) rather than to tolerate just one more day with the 9zf.
The ZF9 is a MUCH better transmission than old 6-s-p used in previous Honda (which failed a lot over much a longer timeframe mind you) - it is very similar to the ZF8 . No comparison. You don't like the delay? Drive it in Sport+ mode.... problem solved, and that was the throttle mapping programming not the transmission.
BTW, I use manual shift mode daily on my TLX .
Originally Posted by pyrodan007
I would take the 5sp from my Type S or the 6sp from my TL any day (including higher gas bills) rather than to tolerate just one more day with the 9zf.
Originally Posted by kurtatx
9zf is trash.
There is no doubt the 9spd is the really bad. As for sport plus mode its fine if you are planning to drive hard full time while its on but the fact that it holds the gear down with high engine revs even after you level off with no up shift to me makes it a novelty rather than something you cannot reasonable drive in at all times. The sport mode is as close to the best mode to drive in all the time. The lag though is there though. Even in my type S if i wanted to pass in any situation i could just depress the pedal and blast off. Sometime i would drop it into manual mode and drop down a gear but with the 9 spd you have to drop 3 to 4 gears to get in a good spot. By then the pass opportunity may have passed. Even my wifes 17 RDX with a great shifting trans gets just under 24mpg just driving around so I would think the TLX wouldn't suffer much in mpg from going away from that ZF9. Granted some of the bigger kinks from the 15 models have been worked out but it's not what it should be.
I'm interested to see how the Honda 10 speed is, long term. I haven't read much about how it performs either. Is there any comparison yet to the 9zf? I wonder how it stacks up.
Does anyone know if the 10 speed has dog clutches also, like the 9zf? If so,
There is no doubt the 9spd is the really bad. As for sport plus mode its fine if you are planning to drive hard full time while its on but the fact that it holds the gear down with high engine revs even after you level off with no up shift to me makes it a novelty rather than something you cannot reasonable drive in at all times. The sport mode is as close to the best mode to drive in all the time. The lag though is there though. Even in my type S if i wanted to pass in any situation i could just depress the pedal and blast off. Sometime i would drop it into manual mode and drop down a gear but with the 9 spd you have to drop 3 to 4 gears to get in a good spot. By then the pass opportunity may have passed. Even my wifes 17 RDX with a great shifting trans gets just under 24mpg just driving around so I would think the TLX wouldn't suffer much in mpg from going away from that ZF9. Granted some of the bigger kinks from the 15 models have been worked out but it's not what it should be.
Agreed. There is a lag. Not really noticeable until you need it though. By in large it works great, but in certain cases when you need instant response you'll be disappointed. Just today I was merging onto another freeway from an onramp and an 18 wheeler was barreling down on me in the same lane. It was probably 3-4 car lengths behind on my left as I was merging, but 15-20 mph faster than me. I was in Sport mode and floored it. There was a delay of maybe 1 second (enough to notice) and the transmission downshifted and I took off. It did kind of scare me to be honest.
I'm still getting used to the nuances of the car, but i'm going to start downshifting in advance for an on ramp merge in the future. Don't have this problem with the 6sp manual CL, but that's a different beast.
Agreed. There is a lag. Not really noticeable until you need it though. By in large it works great, but in certain cases when you need instant response you'll be disappointed. Just today I was merging onto another freeway from an onramp and an 18 wheeler was barreling down on me in the same lane. It was probably 3-4 car lengths behind on my left as I was merging, but 15-20 mph faster than me. I was in Sport mode and floored it. There was a delay of maybe 1 second (enough to notice) and the transmission downshifted and I took off. It did kind of scare me to be honest.
I'm still getting used to the nuances of the car, but i'm going to start downshifting in advance for an on ramp merge in the future. Don't have this problem with the 6sp manual CL, but that's a different beast.
Yes Speed, that what I have been saying. The lag is there in the A Spec, overall it's a sharp car and the suspension upgrade is very apparent over the other tlx models. A second may not seem like much but it is in some cases. I always felt in my type S when I went for a pass or any situation that the response was instant, never a wonder if the car was going to blast. The 9spd just doesn't do it. Sometimes it does but its not the sure thing you get in the older TL's or even the RDX trans. Just a weak point overall that gives you uncertainty on if the car is going to take off or wait a second or two. I guess in general it gives me pause in passing on two lane roads verses the prior gens that response was instant. Hopefully corrected in the next generation but certainly the biggest negative on the car.
I'm interested to see how the Honda 10 speed is, long term. I haven't read much about how it performs either. Is there any comparison yet to the 9zf? I wonder how it stacks up.
Does anyone know if the 10 speed has dog clutches also, like the 9zf? If so,
I think they kind of have to use dog clutches to package it easily. How else would they fit 10 gears transversely.
Agreed. There is a lag. Not really noticeable until you need it though. By in large it works great, but in certain cases when you need instant response you'll be disappointed. Just today I was merging onto another freeway from an onramp and an 18 wheeler was barreling down on me in the same lane. It was probably 3-4 car lengths behind on my left as I was merging, but 15-20 mph faster than me. I was in Sport mode and floored it. There was a delay of maybe 1 second (enough to notice) and the transmission downshifted and I took off. It did kind of scare me to be honest.
I'm still getting used to the nuances of the car, but i'm going to start downshifting in advance for an on ramp merge in the future. Don't have this problem with the 6sp manual CL, but that's a different beast.
I have now become used to manually forcing a downshift whenever needing a fast acceleration. It's sad that a car deemed sporty makes me hesitate to the point were I always wait for a car to fully pass before even attempting to change line. Sad really, loses the point in getting this car. The thrill must come in seeing if transmission will shift properly when absolutely needed!
Last edited by pyrodan007; 08-30-2017 at 09:20 PM.
Things were a little different in my RLX Sport Hybrid. The DCT in that was amazing.. When I needed extra speed, I hit the "Sport" button and mashed the accelerator, that car moved like it was on fire.
However, in this car, I just mat it and most of the times, same result. Occasionally, I manually downshift. Knowing the gear ratios in this car, I know to downshift 2-3 gears, takes less than a second to do that tap-tap-tap...and away we go!
10AT has no current applications of AWD (2018 Odyssey and 2018 Accord), however there there will be soon once the 10AT makes it's way to the RDX, MDX, TLX, and Pilot. Clearly Honda is phasing out the 9-speed ZF and they wouldn't put hundreds of millions of dollars into the new in-house 10AT and not make it compatible with the AWD platform. The first AWD application will likely be the next gen RDX.
I'm interested to see how the Honda 10 speed is, long term. I haven't read much about how it performs either. Is there any comparison yet to the 9zf? I wonder how it stacks up.
Does anyone know if the 10 speed has dog clutches also, like the 9zf? If so,
Long term is the key - personally I wouldn't touch it for at least a couple years.
Somehow, LSD is counterbalanced by AWD. The rest... bof ... only if Brembo name impresses you. A name *again*.
For those who like to push their cars, regardless of what kind of car it is, these names *do* matter. I agree, putting around town, Brembo's serve little purpose.
A friend of mine brought his 4G TL SH-AWD 6MT to the track, a few months ago... 20 minutes on the track and he cooked his brakes. He came back to the pit area and his front brakes were literally smoking. The 4G TL even has wind ducts that are supposed to keep the stock brakes cool. None of it worked.
In comparison, I had my Nismo out that day. I was tracking the car with old brake fluid (it's supposed to be no older than 6 months and mine was probably 14 months old by that time), but the factory Akebono big brake kit- one that is considered inferior to Brembo by 370z owners, simply due to weight and size, didn't show an ounce of trouble on the track. Awesome heat dissipation. No worries about old fluid. No cooked pads or rotors. No concerns.
Not everyone may need names like Brembo. But those who choose to opt for a sport package equipped car are doing it for a reason. I drive my cars hard, whether on the track or off. To me it's not just a name. To me, there's a valid reason why I'm paying for parts like that.
Acura made some pretty good improvements in the transmission, tech and of course, AWD systems since the 3rd gen Type-S. However, I'd have to agree with the OP on this one. The big deal killer for me is the J-series V6. It's a great engine, don't get me wrong. But it's over 20 years old with minimal improvements.
First generation J30, most comparable to the current J-series:
The J30A1 put out 210HP. The J30A4 put out 242HP
Great engine. Very reliable. Voted Ward's best 10 engines in 2003 and 2004.
Current J-Series: 3.5L - 17% more displacement. 20% more power. So about equal power increase vs. displacement of a 15+ year old engine. WTF? Serious?
The J-Series is antiquated. It's time to move on. I will not purchase another sedan from Honda or Acura with this engine. It's old hat. Don't get me wrong, I've owned three vehicles with this engine and have enjoyed them. I currently have a 2012 TL with the 3.5L. I enjoyed the 250cc I-6 in my 1977 Camaro as well though. It had a single barrel carburetor and put out 120HP. It had a three speed on the floor and was lots of fun (albeit slow...). But I'm not about to purchase that on a new car.
I'm interested to see how the Honda 10 speed is, long term. I haven't read much about how it performs either. Is there any comparison yet to the 9zf? I wonder how it stacks up.
Does anyone know if the 10 speed has dog clutches also, like the 9zf? If so,
Based on the reviews on the new Odyssey, the 10AT seems like a great tranny.
So.....based on this logic stated above about the J35, I should hate on my CTS-V's LSA engine because it's essentially a 50-year-old small block Chevy V8 engine with a little more tech thrown in to make more power? Just playing Devil's advocate. The J-series engine is Honda's V6 workhorse for a reason. It's dead reliable, reasonably fuel efficient for a V6, and gets the job done for the vast majority of the driving (non-enthusiast) public. I'd rather have that in a daily driver, TBH, so I do. Of course, I have a CTS-V and so am not desiring of more power right now...and yes, I admit being spoiled because of it.
Don't kill it just for enviro-freaks or gadget lovers.
Acura killed the fun just to get better MPGs, when they had a potentially fine DCT that was only missing one gear and beefier specs for V6 use. Somebody thought the ZF9 was a good idea, to get a 3rd party involved for no reason. Just very bad product planning, money severely wasted which could have been used on all Acura models and been a money making exclusivity.
The ZF9 just gets bad press everywhere, no matter have much better it's getting. Not to mention that the same V6 engine keeps on being used on both Honda and Acura models. The interior is not the only thing people shop for, I want some prestige under the hood too. Not just 10HP more due to forcing premium gas.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 08-31-2017 at 09:07 PM.
Acura killed the fun just to get better MPG, when they had a potentially fine DCT that was only missing one gear and beefier specs for V6 use. Somebody thought the ZF9 was a good idea, to get a 3rd party involved for no reason.
Welll the NA V6 is all fun actually great fun 5000-7000rpm style - no 4-cyl in its catergory can touch it.. Don't let the fact of you being too lazy to put it in Sport+ fool you.
ZF9 in Sport+ and that modern V6 is a superb combo.
Welll the NA V6 is all fun actually great fun 5000-7000rpm style - no 4-cyl in its catergory can touch it.. Don't let the fact of you being too lazy to put it in Sport+ fool you.
ZF9 in Sport+ and that modern V6 is a superb combo.
I just came back from a ride in my friend's Audi A4. Now THAT thing is fun to drive and it was in regular mode. Don't need to force sport+ to get the transmission to give me even more kicks. You would think a V6 would be always fun to drive.
Modern V6? Ya no, not happening...
Last edited by pyrodan007; 08-31-2017 at 09:15 PM.
I just came back from a ride in my friend's Audi A4. Now THAT thing is fun to drive and it was in regular mode. Don't need to force sport+ to get the transmission to give me even more kicks. You would think a V6 would be always fun to drive.
Modern V6? Ya no, not happening...
I feel a glorified Jetta in your future.
Not to be confused with the 2017 A4, here is the 2018 Jetta. All 2.0Toys for your genuine pleasure.
Not to be confused with the 2017 A4, here is the 2018 Jetta. All 2.0Toys for your genuine pleasure.
*Enjoy*.
From consumer reports:
The A4 is our highest-ranked sports sedan, thanks in part to its satisfying driving experience. Power comes from a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder, mated to a standard seven-speed dual-clutch automatic. The engine is smooth and punchy, and the transmission is slick. We got a commendable 27 mpg overall. Handling is nimble and precise, the ride is supple, and the A4 feels tight-as-a-drum solid, with a very quiet cabin. The fully digital instrument panel shows pertinent information in front of the driver in a clear, comprehensive way, and the center screen is compatible with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Interior fit and finish is excellent and the front seats are comfortable, although the rear seat is tight. The A4 has good crash-test results and offers advanced safety features. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...ts-road-tests/
In that case, enjoy your Honda Accord+.
The A4 does not have the same stuff as a Jetta, similar to a TLX versus an Accord. Remind me what top 10 did the TLX win? Not included, win as in #1. Ya, didn't think so.
I can understand waiting. I'd love to buy a new car today but nothing is really blowing a lot of wind up my skirt. I'm really hoping the next TLX doesn't have that hideous concept cockpit though like a lot of Acura current "design" everything looks like an afterthought.
We have. And we know it still sucks. Dog clutches will always suck. I'm also wondering with speeding up the shifting of the ZF9, if long term reliability will be impacted. If not, why didn't they fix the shift times right from the get go? They were obviously concerned about something.
Sport+ mode is stupid also, because the engine unnecessarily revs high and hangs there, and doesn't shift as one would expect. Sure, remap the fuel/air ratios, change throttle response, whatever... but making the transmission now hang in a gear at 6000rpm after you lifted your foot off the gas isn't cool. It isn't practical for normal driving, except for when you want to go fast for 10 seconds... then back to normal, boring mode. Yay. So much win.
Dog engagement is normally used in racing applications where fast, precise shifting is needed. Dog gear engagement is facilitated by numerous large teeth (dogs) that mate into matching openings machined into the opposite surface of the drive gear.
I hate to say it but with the number of fake accident scams in CA, I'd like to have an integrated dashcam in my next car. I doubt it will be an option on the next TLX but I'd like it to be. I don't think anyone has them as standard yet but it is an option I'd like. I'd actually like them to be standard as scammers might avoid the car all together if the new it was standard equipment.
They don't suck for 9,000RPM no clutch shifts on race cars. They do suck on automatic grocery getters. We used to make a Syncro/Dog Clutch combo, known as a Slick Shifter, for no clutch shifting at the drag strip in the 1960's. Either every other or every third tooth was ground out of the clutching ring set.
The shift was made by a quick throttle movement to unload the gear set & yank the Rock Crusher handle. They could gain 2/3 tenths over the same car with a full syncro set. Driving on the street was not something these cars were happy with.
Generally used on trailered cars.
The way the dog clutch is implemented on the Acura TLX is the timing has to be perfect for the teeth to mesh together when the box shifts. This ain't easy to do & its why Acura slowed down the process which sort of defeats it initial prupose of speed shifting.
In the TLX ZF9 world they are not looking to speed the shift up. Acura's goal I believe was to simplify the box, 9 speeds getting a lot of internal parts would have forced fattening the case, for packaging reasons on a front drive car.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-16-2017 at 02:34 PM.
They don't suck for 9,000RPM no clutch shifts on race cars. They do suck on automatic grocery getters.
No they don't. ZF9 2016+ are great transmission as is, reliable and nobody is really complaining but the typical TLX haters. They will jump on every little lame pretext, as you do. Absurd. Some will confuse the transmission with the throttle mapping, a different issue.
Here is the real saintor-mobile and its "infamous" transmission.
No they don't. ZF9 2016+ are great transmission as is, reliable and nobody is really complaining but the typical TLX haters. They will jump on every little lame pretext, as you do. Absurd. Some will confuse the transmission with the throttle mapping, a different issue.
Here is the real saintor-mobile and its "infamous" transmission.
Interesting, the car road tests mentioned slow shifting, delayed kick-down response etc on current models. This some post here also mirror that from current owners. Example:
"The ZF9 is a dog....even Alex noted it in his review." Posted my a moderator.
"although it hesitated to downshift when we called for a quick pass at highway speeds." C&D 2018 TLX
"thanks to the slightly uncooperative ZF 9-speed automatic transmission" R&T 2018 TLX
No hate just not a fan like I was when the TL was a competitive car oriented toward the things I like. Car seems to be a nice everyday car but no longer special in design or performance. Chuckled at the TLX commercial during the Carolina - Buffalo game. They were pedaling it as some sort of first class performance car like a Japanese AMG. Problem is performance car enthusiasts know better & are not buying it anymore so the marketing misses the mark. Adding some cladding & stiffer shocks does not make a performance car in today's market.
The Koreans seem to have broken the code on developing cars that can live up to the TLX commercials, Hire Germans & put guts into the cars, but Acura has not.
Most guys here are in are supporters of the TLX because its good enough strategy & the price is attractive. Would be better IMHO to direct the TLX marketing in that direction. Price, premium build, safety, fuel economy & comfort.
Was in the 440 next to a new black TLX that still had the window sticker on it at a traffic light. Was going to give the guy a thumbs up & say nice car but he studiously avoided looking anywhere but straight ahead. Was surprised by that because its a big intersection with 6 lanes of traffic at a Mall. I generally look around to see the other cars because I just plain like cars & maintaining situational awareness is a good plan when driving.
The TLX is sinking in the quality ratings. Transmission the major complaint. Many people don't want to drive around in Sport+ as a workaround for a poor product integration. If you pay for a transmission that has multi-modes Eco, normal sport & sport + its really a good plan to have all of them seamlessly available.
Color is a personal choice. That said not a big fan of white cars. 40+ cars & have never owned a white one. Not surprised you bought a bland white one. Expect you don't like the colors I have chosen over the years. In the TLX's current pallet I like the Red, Blue, Black & Graphite. My TL was Graphite
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-17-2017 at 06:43 PM.
No they don't. ZF9 2016+ are great transmission as is, reliable and nobody is really complaining but the typical TLX haters. They will jump on every little lame pretext, as you do. Absurd. Some will confuse the transmission with the throttle mapping, a different issue.
Here is the real saintor-mobile and its "infamous" transmission.
Before opening your mouth and start saying we all hate TLX, have you actually test driven current cars? They absolutely destroy Acura's offering.
I'm at a point where it's between two cars, the Q50 Red Sport or A4. I have deposits on both of them for 2017 models, just waiting for availability confirmation.
For around 750$ per month budget:
- TLX Aspec AWD elite with dated engine and infotainment, slow transmission - $745
- Q50 Red Sport (tech and driver assist packages) with awesome engine, ok transmission , so-so infotainment but no ventilated seats and folding mirrors - $750
- A4 Technik quattro (S-line, vent seats, driver assist packages) with very good engine and DCT combo, amazing interior and tech (girlfriend LOVED it), very spacious inside with huge trunk. Even if it's a 2.0toy, it kicks Acura's V6 in the balls, much more responsive - $766 including Audicare
So if you think you did a good purchase, all good. But don't you dare tell me I'm wrong when I say the TLX is not that great compared to other models. Go look around, the grass is for sure greener outside Acura's safe heaven of supposed reliability.
08-29-2017, 05:05 PM
Just playing Devil's advocate. The J-series engine is Honda's V6 workhorse for a reason. It's dead reliable, reasonably fuel efficient for a V6, and gets the job done for the vast majority of the driving (non-enthusiast) public. I'd rather have that in a daily driver, TBH, so I do. 
Of course, I have a CTS-V and so am not desiring of more power right now...and yes, I admit being spoiled because of it. 
They will jump on every little lame pretext, as you do. Absurd. Some will confuse the transmission with the throttle mapping, a different issue.
They will jump on every little lame pretext, as you do. Absurd. Some will confuse the transmission with the throttle mapping, a different issue.
