KeithL

TLX down almost 20% ILX down, Acura clearly needs some new direction and the NSX is not going to do anything to impact that, money well spend, NOT!

New grille is not going to do much either, the $30-$50K segment is super competitive and cheapening the TLX does not help. The TLX is an OK car, but they need some serious rethinking of their car strategy.

Acura USA May 2016 Sales Report ? Acura Connected


RDX is down a tad, and I assume the MDX dip is the new model roll out. They need the HRV based model to help the truck line.

Saintor

Like what?

I don't see other offerings in this segment that do much better. The TLX is a proper successor of the 2004-2008 TL. The 2009+ TL/TSX were much worse.

iutodd

Last year the TLX outsold every competitor in its segment except the C-Class and the 3 series but yeah - a slow sales month definitely means the TLX is a failure and Acura is a shambles.

csmeance

April-May has been terrible for auto makers. GM was down 18% in sales, ford was about 6% down, Fiat/Chrysler made a 1% gain thanks to jeep/ram sales. Plus many buyers who fiance are being pushed out of the market thanks to the high rate of auto loan defaults happening.

TLX is faring pretty well for it's age, market position and current economic climate. The Mid-Model Refresh with the 2018 model will help improve sales too.

KeithL

Did not say it was a failure, just not doing what it could, not sure why everyone was down in May, maybe all the bad weather and flooding around country. I just think Acura has one decent car, the TLX and that struggles.

07Acuradude

MDX decline was due to inventory issues.

Bad month for Acura but it wasn't just their brand that did crappy so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sam Axe

The infotainment system in the TLX needs to be updated. It now looks dated compared to the 2016 Accord, which has Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, and Garmin-based navigation. The newer tech is rumored to be added on the 2017 Pilot as well. and of course the Civic has it. Acura probably won't update it until at least the mid-cycle refresh in 2018 although press photos of the coming 2017 MDX showed the same old infotainment setup so who knows.

iutodd

Been a lot of discussion that Apple CarPlay in particular isn't quite ready for primetime.

Also, and this is a generalization, technology like that is considered more important for younger buyers. Generally people under 25 don't buy $45,000 3-row SUVs or $40,000 luxury sedans so getting that kind of connectedness into Acura's isn't as important as it is for the Civic or the Fit or the HR-V. The ILX...yeah it probably needs it but the FMC for that vehicle is coming fairly soon and the MMC was a year too early to get it I think.

Plus older people are, again generally, less likely to be OK with technology not working some times so if CarPlay and Android Auto present issues it's going to make IQS and satisfaction ratings all the worse.

It is a bit backwards - generally you think of the nicest cars getting the newest technology first - but in this case it's more about the demographics and what the perception is around those demographics.

I DO agree that the systems need to be updated across the board - and Acura has hinted strongly at a whole new interface with the Precision Concept - I also think that Acura shouldn't rush something into their cars just to have something new. The systems work well enough now and, until something revelatory in nature is ready and locked down...if they rush something out it, again, just risks causing more headaches and lower satisfaction.

Nexx

I love it when someone takes numbers and without taking other factors into play use to further their agenda. So sad.

TacoBello

The OP already has a TLX. What agenda is he furthering?

mikedub88

NSX will sell nearly every one they can produce this year (800/yr = [3to4/day x approx 260 work days]). Not factoring in any sort of options at the $156K sticker that is roughly $125M in sales. I don't know what their margins are on the cars but this isn't bad...

KeithL

And how many billions did they spend on R&D? I think the car is awesome, just that when Acura is struggling as a brand to find it's niche they could have spent the money in place with better return.

KeithL

I have no agenda, I have owned more TL/TLX and Acuras than probably most people on this board and I really was a huge Acura fan, but the 09 chased me away with the beak and poor colors, I decided to come back, driven mostly by some economic designs and have been disappointed in the mis-steps that have taken. The tranny is a disaster and sure most of the buyers are not having the issue or dont; even think of it as an issue, but in the end the "Thrill" of driving a 15 TLX V6 is non-existent. And I knew ahead of time the infotainment would be a mixed bag, but it is just not competitive with just about any car even in the lower segments.

Going back if I had it to do again I probable would have gone for a Q50. I just wanted real full time AWD and let that and my trust for Acura guide me. My car has not had any major issues, the tranny makes itself known every day and so does the infotainment. Also the leather quality is lower than the 4G, at 6500 it has wrinkles already. Also the voice recognition seems poor, my 4G was very solid with voice commands.

The only thing that makes me OK is that I got the car on a 35 month .3% lease at like $7K off sticker so I accept that I got what I paid for.

As for my post, the main issue is Acura's car story is a one trick pony, the TLX is their only moderate car success, what other mainstream brand has such a lop sided car story? Before you say Infinit, I agree, they will fix that next year with Q30, but at least they offer Q50 and Coupe Q60, kept the Q40/G37 around to plug hole and the Q70 does not get the credit it deserves and considering it is a 5 year old model sells almost double the RLX.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

FYI, the IS was down 28%, ATS down 30%, the 3 series was down 16%, A4 didn't drop or gain, but that's probably because the new gen is out. C Class down 6%.

Not saying the Acura sedans don't need help, but we just need to keep in mind that almost everyone in this segment dropped significantly.

I think the idea is to start from up top (making an excellent super car), and then bring the other cars up to par. So, the question is, will the upcoming bread and butter models be any good?

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Respectfully disagree. Acura needed a new halo car to lead its product lineup and garner interest in the brand with the hope that some of that engineering will trickle down into the lower mass market appliances we drive on the daily.

TacoBello

and who knows how much Acura actually invested into R&D. I agree, it likely isn't cheap, but we are speculating as to what they actually invested.


I'd hope that Honda learned from their first mistake with the 1G NSX, trying to recoup investment for a car that had sales significantly drop after the first few years. I'm sure they walked away with some "lessons learned" from that and set more realistic/attainable goals, even if they plan on losing money on every NSX sold.

iutodd

I've never liked the argument that Honda spending money on something takes away money from something else. OK - yes - Honda doesn't have infinite money - but they have budgets for stuff I imagine. The ILX MMC didn't lose money because the NSX was getting worked on. The RDX MMC didn't lose money because they built the PMC. Also - money only helps so much - part of Acura's problem was not having the right standards and expectations. The 2013 ILX was rumored to get an AT with the K24 and they kind of punted on it because of money - but that was really a problem of expectations - someone at Acura thought the ILX 2.0 was good enough.

Also - from what I understand of the history and development of the NSX it was an important car for Honda/Acura's morale and attitude. They had a rough patch engineering wise and they needed to get their mojo back. The Euro CTR, the NSX and the 10th gen Civic development seems to have gotten them going again. The NSX specifically also has made Acura raise their targets - they changed everything about the car because they wanted to compete at higher levels - that change hasn't really hit mainstream Acura's yet but we also haven't seen any "all-new" Acura products in almost 2 years.

The next-gen Acura's are the most important Acura's ever for that reason I think. The NSX actually walks the walk of "Precision Crafted Performance" at world class levels. Acura has to bring that attitude and execution to the rest of the lineup and I think they will - I think without the NSX Acura would be even worse off right now

KeithL

Halo cars only work if you have something to attract the people that are not buying the halo car, but are going to buy downstream. So a few loaded people will notice Acura and get an NSX, I don't see how some wall street guy says I need a family sedan so let me get an RLX becasue the NSX is a hot car.

KeithL

I don't think they took money away from another car, but they could have done something else with the money to turn into more main stream. A coupe or even doing something like Lexus, they have F Sport then F cars. Do a TLX Type-S and then a TLX S which would have a killer motor and sporty and you get more people in the showroom. Someone goes in to even see the NSX and won't see one I am betting they are sold out already.

weather

^^ For the record, I agree with you on what you are trying to say. I know you enough to know you are a loyal Acura guy, just like I have been. I will/want to come back to Acura but the difference between me and a fanboy is that I will not just accept anything put out by Acura.

I really like the TLX styling, I really do....but like you, I couldn't stand the transmission. Unlike the 2009-2014 TL that everyone hated the styling (which I liked after the MMC), the TLX's issue is more to do with issues underneath the hood.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can not accept the fact that Acura made some missteps along the way...I do like the brand and I want to come back. They just have to do something a little more solid for me to come back.

Has anyone taken a 2017 Elantra out for a drive....for what you pay and what you have, it is a fairly compelling little car and the styling is very cohesive too. I am not saying Acura isn't better than Hyundai but what I am saying is why isn't Acura trying to retake the luxury/premium segment as aggressively like Hyundai did with the econmy segment? Sure, it is very competitive but what isn't more competitive than the econo segment and Hyundai is going to the party with a fairly sexy outfit - Acura shouldn't just settled for good enough.

Come on Acura, you were the first Japanese luxury brand in NA, don't give up! Bring us a Type-S segment to your premium bring, inject adrenaline.

Momyc

^^ You read my mind I agree 200%

Rocketsfan

Most people had expected lower sales for manufacturers because they've been anticipating a slowdown in auto sales soon, but also because last may had an extra weekend and more selling days from what I recall. Not sure it accounts for the big drops across the board, but it's probably at least partly to blame. Then you have the crazy flooding/rain this year in parts of the South. I'm not sure what the weather was like last year in May.

mapleloaf

The new Civic is a better car than the new Elantra....just saying....IMHO, and that of many reviewers. Regarding the TLX, IMHO, the 3.5 tranny, the 2016 is a somewhat improved version. While, i'm at it, the 8 speed in-house DCT is an excellent transmission and pairs nicely with the 2.4. The 2.4 TLX is...well...it's also a TLX, lest we forget. The 2016-17 ILX is a nicely loaded fun to drive car and a significant improvement over the previous models - again, the 8 speed DCT makes this a very nimble and fast 4 cylinder. Whether there is a enough market share between the Civic and other entry level luxury cars with more snob appeal is certainly an issue.

Finally, on the point about infotainment, for me the guts are the following:
1. Sound System (ELS) - still one of the best out there.
2. Climate Control - excellent, flawless, in my experience.
3. Phone system - 3 ways to quick dial - 2 by voice, 1 by frequent numbers stored and available in dash display - all work great.
Siri is a nice feature that works well
4. 2 screens - love the flexibility, graphics are clear, some are sexier...who cares?
5. Voice Recognition - works well when I need it.
6. Acura Link - use it, love it. Wish the Navi in Canada was one step voice like the US, but with Acura Link, not a big deal. I'll keep he other uniquely Canadian features.

AppleCarPlay would be great, but honestly, I only have so much time to play with things, and I prefer the sound quality of HD recorded music vs playing from my phone.

For the money, it's an excellent value. Would i add a few things like stitched leather like dash, sure, but everything costs. Thus ends my quasi Acura supporter quasi rant.

weather

^^ I agree that the Civic is a better 'handling' car than the Elantra but have you seen what they offer for the price? You can't get a similarly equipped Civic for the same price and I am not sure that the handling is that significantly better. Also, take one at night and see how nice the interior and cluster is, the new Elantra feels quite nice and impressive...again for what it is.

Now I am also aware that styling is purely subjective but to me, side by side, the Elantra is a better executed styling vehicle than the Civic...again, in my opinion.

I agree with you though, the ILX is a nice little package and for the price and I will never dispute that for the size, SH-AWD and such, the TLX is nicely priced...I just could easily be better.

atl7

Mapleloaf, here are my views on the infotainment

1. I agree, ELS sound is awesome and is very clear.
2. I don't like the climate control, I hate how there is no knob for the fan speed. It's a little distracting to have to hit the tiny box and then you hit the wrong one, then you have to 'x' out of the box and then find the fan speed box again, lol. I know, it doesn't happen a lot, but this could be much easier if there was a physical knob or up/down buttons for fan speed since I don't even have to look down for those. I'd also like a button to switch modes. You just press the mode button and it shows on the screen which mode it is instead of having to select another box for this setting.
3. The phone system is average for me. I'll speak very clear and often it will dial the wrong number or person, so I have to look down at my phone in contacts which defeats the whole purpose of the system. The siri system glitches all the time in my car, even after I'm done with siri it'll just stay there and won't continue my music through usb on my phone.

I think the touch screen could be improved. My Impala LT rental while my TL is waiting for an airbag has the MyLink with the touch screen and it is awesome! Very quick to respond and the screen seems like a tablet, whereas the TLX always takes a second to think. Not a big deal, but it seems like even a Chevy has an Acura beat on infotainment. The TLX's isn't bad and I'm not going to complain about it, it could just be better.

keith7120

KeithL is well respected member of this site. I follow most of his knowledge through his post. I don't know a bigger Acura fan. Even when KeithL drove his Audi he still chimed in hoping for the next best Acura sedan. Now that he owns the TLX, I think he has every right to share his opinions. To me, its seems KeithL is a bit underwhelmed with his TLX which does happen with Acura products from time to time. My 2002 with the tranny issues was one of them. Yes the car is selling well. Is it the hit that everyone was looking for in the 3G? I don't think so. Yes the overall sedan market is sagging due to SUV sales. I'm still in my my 2013 4gen SH-AWD. I like the fact that I can press the gas pedal and get downshift anytime I need it without having to be in Sports mode or Sports + to pass an 18 wheeler. That was my personal opinion. I'm speaking on the 6 cylinder. I have not driven the 4 cylinder. I'm an Acura fan as well and the TLX at least the 1gen(tlx) or 5gen (tl) will be the first gen I skip.

mikedub88

Development did not take Billions. Hundreds of millions yes. If there was no hope of ever making any money/breaking even at the 156K price point it would be sold for more.

Nexx

That's fine and all but why wait until sales go down one month to point all that out when there was a industry wide in drop in sales. He could have easily made his point in the previous months when the TLX had strong sales. That's the only problem I had with it.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The Civic is pretty much the segment leader at this moment, by quite a bit too. That's what you get when Honda gets serious, and it helps when the benchmark for the Civic was the Audi A3.

TacoBello

The better question is- why are you losing sleep over what his thoughts are and what thread he decided to create? Opinions are like butt holes. Everyone has one and this domain exists for people to share them.

KeithL

I will agree, I over reacted without checking all th competition. That said, I do retract anything that people took as the TLX being a failure, but it is very underwhelming especially when you look at the competition and what was at stake. The car is decent and styling is very good. In the end the tranny and infotainment at least for me are the boat anchor of the car. The car handles well, and looks good, just is frustrating to drive every day. And now with summer here the minor load the AC puts on the engine and the thinner air makes the tranny lags more pronounced.

KeithL

Thanks for the support, but I did deserve some of the backlash. That said, I wish I had my 4G AWD it was far superior to the TLX. You are correct, super responsive throttle/tranny. My TLX, the lag when you punch the car is horrendous, even in Sport mode.

weather

AMEN!! I couldn't agree with you more! I also share the view that you are one of the good contributor on this forum

iutodd

Acura sold 177,000 cars last year. That's their 5th highest total ever in the 30 years of being Acura even with only 5 nameplates (and only 4 that are really worth a damn). So people are coming into the showrooms I think.

What Acura needed was a paradigm shift with how they approach and execute their cars. The ILX and RLX and even the 2G RDX proved unequivocally that they didn't know what the hell they were doing. It was happening throughout the company actually - Honda was getting it as well.

That kind of paradigm shift just doesn't happen with a Type-S or a Coupe. It just doesn't - because the product isn't big enough or important enough - something like the NSX gets EVERYBODY involved from the leadership because it's so damned important to get right because it's the NSX. As I said already - the next gen Acura's are super important because either they will show that Acura understands that they need to put NSX-like levels of effort and commitment to an ideal to create products that truly deliver precision crafted performance or they will be more of the same. I think the next-gen products WILL deliver and I don't think that kind of shift would have happened if NOT for what Acura went through bringing this reborn NSX to market.

I guess I just view the NSX as the first product in a line of products that will redefine the brand. Say that I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, say that I'm a fanboy, I just think that Acura will get it done. And if they don't, if the next-generation of Acura's is more of the same, then I'll be the first in line to criticize them for it.

KeithL

I do hope that the NSX is the company inspiration the company needs. My guess is like in most companies the soldiers know what needs to be done, but were held back by the decision makers. While I don't think they are in danger of going away, the next gen of vehicles will determine how relevant they will be. Hyundai and Kia as well as the even Ford are offering great products that can hurt Acuras mainstream models. Acura has clearly proven they can't do a high end sedan and can't even imagine what the next RLX will be. I have been very disappointed that Infiniti failed to gain ground as I felt they had the proper direction, just poor execution an delays in low end and top end cars. If they would have refreshed the infotainment in the Q70 I would have been back in one as I enjoyed that car. They need new engines badly. Even their 7 AT while far from perfect was superior to the 9AT in the TLX.

mapleloaf

Not to question my learned friend, but a Honda Civic fully loaded is 1K less than the Ultimate Elantra. The Elantra has a heated steering wheel, cornering headlights and a 1" bigger touch screen. The Civic trumps it in the important areas, IMHO. To wit:

- 174 HP and 162 torque vs 147 and 132. ( Base engine is also bigger - 158 and 138); I'm assuming the Hyundai figures are actually legitimate these days
- Better fuel economy - 6.7 l/100km vs 7.4 l/100km
- Yes, Civic uses a CVT as standard in the upper model, but it is a very smooth version;
- Better suspension - Independent front strut and Independent multi-link rear vs Mcpherson strut for both.
- More active safety and driver assist technologies
- More powerful sound system and 2 more speakers
-Wi-Fi tethering and charging AND Apple Play

As for appearance, I prefer the previous Elantra. Now, we have another Ford Fusion lookalike. Both the Civic and the Elantra have nice side lines, but looks are not the reason why I would take one over the other.

Both excellent compact cars, but, IMHO, despite the prolific and somewhat smug Hyundai ads, I gotta go with the Civic. BTW, do you think the Germans and Japanese were breaking in to see how they could make more commercials driving full speed through deserts with average engines and trannies?....

I wish Hyundai would spend some of that money improving their website. In making this comparison, the Honda info is so much easier to find. BTW, I also find Acura's website is easier to navigate than a lot of it's competitors.

Finally, in returning to the main topic of this forum (TLX), everything can be better. That includes just about every car in the segment. I think Acura has addressed the programming deficiencies of the 9 speed in the 2016 3.5. The rest is simply a question of whether you prefer the advantages of a nine speed over it's disadvantages...and that will come down to the type of driving you do. For the vast majority of drivers, of which this forum is hardly representative, I suspect this is less of a burning issue. I also have no doubt that Acura will update the infotainment system in either the 2018 model.

Now if they could give me a stitched faux leather dash....well...nirvana! And a Type S for you, of course!

mapleloaf

Thanks for your comments. My assessment of the climate system was more about how well it works to maintain temperature, it's major function. Best of any car I've owned. As a result, I seldom have to adjust the fan, so the two step touch process is no big deal. The only noticeable delays I have found are when the system loads....which is really not an issue as I am checking a few things or whatever when I start up. Perhaps I am more patient (come with age or your system has a glitch. I would have to check out the Impala, but my touch functions work well. Today I will play more and see what I notice.

Regarding the phone, I load all of my common numbers (about 10) in the menu that I can access in the dash display...no fuss, no muss. For voice, I find that Siri and the in-car system work well most of the time. If I have an issue, it's if I use a full one step voice command such as Call John Smith Mobile (if multiple numbers stored). That works about 70% and at worst, it takes me to a screen with the 2-3 numbers I have stored for that person, so a two step process. With the two step process it's almost flawless - Siri or in-car. Perhaps it's my very loud normal voice I also remember to use the pronunciation the system throws back at me when dialling. This ensures it will normally get it right.

wlkeel

This sure rings a bell! In 15 months of ownership, I've never adjusted the fan. The only controls I've touched have been the temperature settings (I leave it on auto) and the rear window/mirror defrost button. Even when I've needed windshield defrost, the system seems to take care of it automatically. Works fine for me

EricInMaryland

Well, looks and tech for starters. Colors. Trim. Infotainment. If you got in the car and said WOW....the sales would be there.

EricInMaryland

The NSX in a decent config is priced near the Bugatti range...why by the NSX. Cool as it is...its just PR nothing more.