joflewbyu2

WoW !! Touchy subject. Yes I said it. Many members here are blaming the transmission not undestanding the situation and logic behind VCM - variable cylinder management. It is all programming that affects shift points and gear selection. VCM kicks in at low load and steady cruising speed. The transmission programming must choose to keep lower gear for torque so VCM can kick in for enhanced fuel economy or upshift to higher gear which might not allow VCM to operate.

If you never drove a VCM vehicle before, you will definately notice a different shift behavior as well as exhaust noise drone and vibration. That is why we have ANC - active noise control as well as electronic dampning engine mounts. To cancel or reduce noise and vibration when VCM operates. 3 cylinders firing is not as balanced as 6. Tuning an exhaust for noise, performance and vibration for an engine is difficult let alone two different characteritics modes ( 3 cyl & 6 cyl) for 1 design.

All this is done to satisfy the EPA as lower fuel consumption translates to lower emissions. Manufacturers desire fuel efficiency as buyers demand it and make purchasing decisions based upon it.

You will start noticing smaller engines and more turbos to enhance fuel efficiency and reduce emissions.

VCM is the path chosen for the current 6 cyl Acura models with the highly efficient 9 speed transmission. The working characterics are different from non VCM engines with less gears.

If driven hard and not allowing VCM to kick in, you will notice shifting performance is flawless.

Maybe we should be looking at a way to disable VCM while not affecting the other systems that work in unison. There are electrical connections on the back cylinder head that can be seen that control VCM. If disconnected and not allowed to engage, would the engine mounts still change?

chris03tl

Id beg to differ.

While I agree VCM isnt *helping* the transmission feel, the fact that every other manufacturer who chose to use the ZF 9AT is having issues leads me to believe there really is something inherent in the transmission (hardware, software or a combination) thats causing the complaints.

Stew4HD

I drove a Honda Accord Coupe V6 auto with VCM prior to the TLX. I never had an issue with it, ever.

BEAR-AvHistory

Sorry but don't agree. Had an early attempt at VCM with a V8 back in 1984. Ran a daily 100 mile commute for over 120,000 miles. Never noticed the engine or transmission having any issues in the entire time I owned the car.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I don't understand how that could be. Some of the behaviour reported is taking place on early shifts in stop and go driving - the VCM isn't a factor unless you're cruising on the highway at highway speeds.

Momyc

Exactly !

mapleloaf

I agree that VCM would not explain all of the complaints here…IF you have complaints I just drove about 250 km of highway, my longest trip yet, and experienced no issues with vibration or downshifting concerns. What I did experience was 6.6 litres /100 km without wind (36 mpg U.S.) and acceleration from 65 to 100 mph in 2-3 seconds to pass, with SH AWD that kept that speed feeling safe and planted. I have never experienced the downshifting delay "safety" issues that a few talk about.

I have experienced the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifting concerns. However, over time, with the help of some suggestions here, and my own experimentation, I have become more Zen with the transmission. I start in ECO and moving up to Normal and occasionally Sport, needed, and have virtually eliminated any shifts that feel rough.When I get the occasional notched shift from 2-3, it's just a non-issue.

Someday when I have time, I will do a little research into the complaints about the transmission to determine any discernible patters. However, I do feel that many folks who are the most vocal have come from a 6 speed manual TL and have the biggest adjustment to the 9 speed. Additionally, those that have had various TCMS to update the transmission SEEM to end up with bigger issues, including more downshifting and lunging complaints. I realize that these are sweeping generalizations and that there are definite exceptions to this.

Stew4HD

I second and third that!

Stew4HD

Oh and calling us ignorant due to a mechanical/software malfunction = not cool.

jeich182

WRONG! I've had may car in several times for bad VCM vibrations. It has been acknowledged by my dealership personnel as well as the regional service rep. but is "normal operation at this time". VCM engages as low as 30MPH under light load. It is more of a problem in FWD models, too, as we drove several of each to compare.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I'm very surprised by this.

Stew4HD

I believe what Professor was getting at is that the VCM should not come in to play during acceleration. I thought the VCM only engaged at cruising (leveled out) speed/RPM.

Hoosier_TLX

I'm not entirely sure I'm ignorant, but I am very blissful when I drive my TLX so..... maybe the saying is correct.

Then again, I've been very happy with the driving characteristics of my car so I guess this may not really apply to me. I do find it strange that the VCM may kick in at low speeds. I guess I also thought it would only be applied at cruising.

quantum7

maybe if we only had a video

Stew4HD

There you go rubbing it in!

Until the software updates, the only real complaint I had was the way the car would not drop into 1st gear until fully stopped for a couple of seconds and the hesitation when accelerating from a lower speed

mondster

Should we request that the title be edited: replace the word "buyers" to "OP"?

Stew4HD

ATXTLX

Is Acura paying you to come onto these forums and try to stick up for them? In my TLX, I have never had an issue with vibrations or the VCM. I consider myself lucky. Afterall, I am one that is, apparently, too sensitive about the transmission shifting in my car. But.. wouldn't I be sensitive to even the slightest vibration then with the VCM?

My TLX is amazing, once it gets passed 5th gear. I can even tolerate it on weekends, when I am not in terrible Austin TX stop and go traffic. I agree with everyone that the transmission is wonderful when stomped on.

But that is not everyday driving. And in everyday driving, I wouldn't ask my worst enemy to drive this car.

ATXTLX

LOL. If only there were a video..

Speaking of video... check out the Acura Facebook page. Somebody posted this video on the visitor posts: NOTE THE SECTION ABOUT HARD SHIFT 2-3. And then hopefully none of us experience the speedometer issue he has! (Is this a member of this forum?..)

Bryan Livelyto‎Acura
Yesterday at 2:18pm ·
Before leasing my TLX, I figured there would be kinks to work out, as it's the first run of the new generation. Thought I would share some concerns and feedback with you. If there is a better forum for this information, please let me know. I loved my 2005 TL, and the TLX in my opinion, doesn't live up to the Acura badge. I was so close to leasing the Lexus GS350, and somewhat regretting my decision that I chose the TLX. Hopefully these issues will be addressed before I choose my next lease.
1) Rear deck rattle when listening to any music with bass. I've brought my car in and explained this issue. The tech stated this has been an issue since 2004, and the metal used to hold the speak is too thin. There is nothing they can do to replace or fix.
2) Software issues: There was been non-stop software bugs when using different features of the entertainment system. System favorites will disappear and reappear. Time to load the backup camera is way too long. Even the lane departure warning is too sensitive. I've driven 3 different TLX's (6 cylinder, tech package and up), and it's the same issue across all.
3) Speedometer becomes unresponsive, and the technicians are not able to diagnose. This one is very scary, as I have no clue how fast I'm driving. This always happens from a cold start, but randomly.
4) Glovebox installed incorrectly from factory. Had to order a whole new glove box. Why wasn't this checked prior to delivery at the dealership, no quality control?
5) Hard shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. Doesn't matter what driving mode, there is still a hard shift between gears. I had a software update performed, and this slightly addressed the issue, but it's still present.

open contact

is the VCM only in sh-awd models? 9500 miles in 6 month my transmission is sharp and responsive not a single issue.

Stew have you tried the sport mode, I always drive in sport mode, maybe then your transmissin will be more responsive.

Stew4HD

I have tried it in all modes. That 2-3 shift is still the #1 issue and no mode changes it other than Sport+.

youngTL

As far as #1 goes, the 3rd gen TL has it WAY worse, lol. Acura should design that rear deck better. In any event, I fixed it in my '07 TL-S by jamming some heavy duty foam cuttings in thin strips from above that I squeezed between the rear deck and the rear glass. Worked like a charm and you can't even see them.

For #3, that is a safety concern. It sounds like you got a real lemon since that issue isn't widespread. I guess yours was made on a Friday afternoon? If your state has a lemon law, you might want to look into it.

Oh, and the OP isn't very well informed. I'm buying a TLX anyway because the test car with 1550 km on it didn't exhibit any bad behaviour. I'll be sure to check out the one I'm getting thoroughly before I take delivery. I'm coming from a 6MT so any shift bumps aren't really perceptible to me unless I look hard for them (it shifts a lot smoother & faster than I ever could in my MT, even on a 9th to 4th shift when flooring it on the highway).

ATXTLX

I agree with Stew. I have the issue in all modes. I have tried variable after variable to try to get this thing to shift smoothly. Nothing I do helps it, unless I floor it.

I am trying to think back to when I bought my car. I can't tell if my car is worse now, after updates, than before. It is certainly a hefty jerk that you feel. I do know that there was not a clunk in the engine when it shifted from 4-5 until after the updates.

My car will force your head into the headrest also, if you are not prepared for it. Oftentimes I feel silly. I get tensed up expecting it, and every once in a while, it doesn't happen. This car has been described as Sybil, and that label is definitely fitting.

ATXTLX

Luckily, that video / post was not from me. That was another TLX owner posting about their issues on the Acura Facebook page. The speedometer issue is scary.

I drove many manual transmissions before. They were all fun (except for the one clutch that went out on me.) With a manual, you expect the shifts and the hesitations. The reason I drive an automatic is to not feel any shifting or have to worry about inconsistencies.

I miss my 2014 Mazda 6 GT transmission. Mazda can build a fantastic transmission.

iesu3423

The issue people have had with supposed "slow downshifting," weak acceleration is something I have in fact I experienced. But I recognize that's how the transmission performs.

I went and tried 5 different vehicles in a single day. Cars perform differently. The V-6 FWD feels subdued and not as responsive. That's how the car was designed. The SH-AWD V6 does not feel that way. The 4 cylinder does not feel that way. This is almost for sure an issue with taste and tuning, not a defect of any kind.

Other FWD V-6s, including likely the past Acuras people here have had, were different. You have to understand that. The way the 9 speed works with the engine is different than what you are used to. There are also videos available where Acura engineers talk about the differences on this between the 4 cylinder and the v6. The 4 cylinder with 8 DCT downshifts in a way that I'm guessing some of you (who are complaining) would like better. The 6 cylinder is designed to be more subdued.

You also have to adjust your driving style to the car. Some of the complaints on here have the flavor of..."I've owned Acuras for many years, and the car must behave as well as those ones did with the way I drive." I've never driven one car the same as I drive another car. You have to be willing to adjust yourself to the car to get maximum results. It also seems like new Acura buyers are noticing less/complaining less, because they don't come in with expectations of how it should perform based on past Acuras.

Maybe the bigger point is that that's for sure the sort of thing you can pick up on a test drive. If you want a car that is going to feel perfect for you and match with your driving style, you could have chosen a different one with a more traditional transmission, etc. Saying that Acura shouldn't use the 9 speed (as many of you did before you even had a chance to try the car) is a different thing than suggesting the car is defective.

ATXTLX

I have had enough of arguing about this. Buy a TLX. 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder. Until you own one, please do not try to defend or justify the way Acura has built this car. I bought my TLX, and loved it at first. When Acura acknowledged the problem (because they did, and told me they were working on a solution with ZF themselves: (See my thread: Update Received from ZF on 9 Speed Transmission), I was still excited about the car. I went out, spent 2 grand on the Aero Kit. I spent a pretty penny on a custom "TLX" license plate. I had hopes for this car. Acura has let me down too many times. My hopes are gone. Stop trying to tell us we are wrong about the way we feel about our cars.

And to add, now that you have edited. I did test drive. 2 cars. Both drove fine. My car did not show any signs of poor shifting until about 100 miles were on it. (I was told I didn't need to test drive my car, as it drove the same as the others. The plastic was removed from mine, the sticker was placed, and it was mined. Right off the truck.)

iesu3423

I'm suggesting potential real, serious problems/issues should be separated from complaints about design/personal preferences/etc. Then Acura and owners will be better off in the end. As it stands, the info in the forums is a mishmash of all of that.

ATXTLX

This is my first > $40K car I have ever purchased. You had better bet that from now on, I am reading through as many forum posts as possible before I buy another car. I would hope that I would be able to identify possible issue / defects / DISLIKES of a car before I drop the cash.

I assume that is why you are here. Don't you want to know that there could be an issue with your future TLX, even if it is only a 5-10% chance? I would..

iesu3423

Yes, and it's been helpful. That's what drew me here to begin with. Now I want to help you guys out, because I can see there is a high level of dissatisfaction. And if I buy the car and experience issues, I am of course on board to get help.

Stew4HD

Well said. It's a real sad thing to have a car that you no longer enjoy driving.

My drive to work is no problem since I get to work real early and have no traffic. Since I changed jobs and have a much longer drive, I now get to drive home in traffic. I literally cringe with each red light knowing I will get to feel the POS 2-3 shift slam. I can't haul ass because of traffic in front of me unless I get the off chance to be first in line. If I can accelerate hard, the 2-3 shift is a non issue.. sadly, it's there and seems that this will not be fixed for me. The dealership has thrown up their hands saying they've done all they can. They sympathize but it's al they can do for me.

I am so tempted to dump this car but for the $$ loss I'd take on it.

joflewbyu2

So you changed the design of the TLX and are now complaining - shame on you.
Larger wheels with different width and offset and lowering springs. Ever heard of leverage and unsprung weight? How about centrifical force. All items you changed.

Stew4HD

Here's a couple of , go buy yourself a clue.

I didn't realize that lowering my car and putting lighter rims on my car would cause other people's (and mine) transmission to shift so bad.

Shame on me? *cough*

joflewbyu2

Ok, once again wheel width and offset and change of suspension geometry will 100% affect leverage which directly affects pull which stresses the shafts connected to the transmission. Do you realize the shift points and pressure are related to transmission fluid temperature as well as input from yaw and g sensors. All items you changed.

Before you take offense, research the facts with a mechanical engineer in R&D before you embarrass yourself.

Stew4HD

Before you attempt to "school" me on how geometry affects the car, I think you need to learn when to not comment and be thought a fool rather than posting and removing all doubt.

Again, you are trying to blame my issues, the very same behavior that many, many, many, many, many other owners are having on lowering my car 1.6 inches. HOGWASH.

On that note, I am done with ye. NEXT THING WE KNOW, YOU'LL DEMAND A VIDEO.

ta ta

joflewbyu2

Keep in mind I am around these models everyday for the past 16 + years. I own a V6 fwd TLX with the 9 speed. No issues. My friend has no issues with his. I have had 1 person complain on a 9 speed MDX. He stated it drove/shifted differently from his 6 speed MDX.

The norm are thousands of buyers very happy with no issues. The few that are complaing put thoughts in others that there is a problem. Then it snowballs.

Hence the 9 speed with dog clutches will not shift like other transmissions some are accustomed to.

But your main complaint here you created yourself. You took a design that was created with many engineers familar with mechanics and destroyed it with your cosmetic eye not knowing the consequences. You modified at your own risk and now want to blame others.

You disqualified yourself from norm when you mutulated the vehicle Honda engineered.

quantum7

I have the perfect solution....

joflewbyu2 can sell a perfectly performing TLX to iesu3423 and we will never have to hear about it ever again.

Stew4HD

I (and the rest of us ignorant buyers) agree.

joe is lucky I am in a good mood and that I find his silly observations quite childish. His invitation to a flame war is duly noted.

Yep, the thread title truly should be "Ignorant OP not understanding VCM/9ZF complaining about true issues real owners are having"

ATXTLX

Why didn't I think of this before?.. Of course! My Aero Kit that Acura installed is probably causing my shifting issues too. It makes perfect sense...

Listen, joflewby.. if you have a 9 speed TLX that is shifting to your liking, then that is wonderful. Congrats. You two make a great couple.

The truth is, there are MANY people that have purchased TLXs that are NOT happy with the transmission. This is after test driving and after giving Acura many chances to fix this problem (which they have made: 8 in my case. I have 8 repair invoices that are in the hands of my lawyer.)

I agree many have perfectly shifting TLXs. I have driven a few. Mine is not like those. Stew's is not like those. And cut the BS about the lowering springs and offset larger wheels.

You are on here, defending your employer. If you aren't having an issue, then great! Stop commenting on the thread. You are not going to accomplish anything else, besides hurting the Acura brand even more since you seem to represent them in some fashion.

joflewbyu2

WoW!! Being that I have been in, driven and sold ~ 1,000 9 speed transmission TLX and MDX models without any issues, I find it hard to believe there are so many problems. That doesn't mean there aren't an issue or two out there. Just find the odds against my experience very out of the ordinary.

BTW, the ground effect package would not impact the vehicle dynamics like lowering the suspension and placing different diameter, width and offset wheels. I am sure that no one readjusted the yaw and G parameters in the back screen correctly.

mondster

Yeah you definitely work for acura. Of course you will defend the product at all costs even to the point that you look stupid and dont know crap. If you think nothing is wrong with the transmission, why do you think theyve release numerous updates to fix it? The tsbs even acknowledge issues with the transmission.