Sam Axe

Interesting that one journalist observed smooth shifts and another rough shifts.

NSX, S660, and a 4-motor CR-Z EV that goes like hell

"For instance: I drove an Accord fitted with Honda's new 10-speed automatic transmission for a few laps of the oval. The unit seems very promising; on the face of it it'll be a boon for fuel economy, and in a few slow-down, speed-up maneuvers the thing seemed to run through its many gears smoothly. But it's hard to know how a multi-gear transmission will work in the real world from that limited experience. In fact, after commenting that I experienced little to no shift-shock between gears, another journalist chimed in that he found the trans to be rough while shifting up or down. More data will be required, but expect to see this unit attached to Honda V6 engines before too long."

hadokenuh

LOL this is nuts ... oh Honda!!

advan031

Last time I checked we're driving cars not 10 wheeler trucks. We don't need so many freaking gears!

BEAR-AvHistory

What gear is 1:1? Every one above that is about fuel economy. Below that it will add to performance if they can manage the software so that the individual shift speed is quick enough to offset the additional shifts it will be making.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...rivetrain-tech

10-speed
Also on tap: a new 10-speed planetary automatic transmission for front-wheel-drive vehicles, a gearbox Honda calls a world’s first. That transmission will be introduced in the “near future,” Ohtsu said. He declined to give a specific timeline.
It is expected to be used in large vehicles such as the Acura RLX and Honda Odyssey, but plans have not been finalized.
Honda will build the 10-speed in-house, and it will replace Honda’s six-speed automatic for 3.5-liter, V-6 engines.
The 10-speed is as compact as the six-speed, making it easily deployable across a wide range of vehicles, Ohtsu added.
It will boost fuel economy by at least 6 percent over the six-speed and deliver a 14 percent improvement in acceleration, Honda said. Shifting will be 30 percent faster.

Edward'TLS

Only if it will work flawlessly in real life driving conditions.

youngTL

They'll probably set 1:1 at 6th gear since the 9AT in the TLX is at 1:1 in 5th, and 7 through 10 would be overdrive gears. If they can make it close-ratio for 1-5 or 1-6, it'll be faster and then also have fuel economy numbers after that.

lmacmil

There's got to be a point on diminishing returns on the number of gears vs mileage or drivability. I suspect it's something less than 10. Their CVT has gotten good reviews in the Accord and CRV. Wonder why they just don't put that across the board?

mondster

10 speed manual, please!!!

KeithL

I guess the ZF was a stop gap until their own 10 speed is ready. 6 percent over 6 speed, but really how would 8 or 9 do? I agree at this point go CVT. Nissan has had decent luck,with their CVT. I test drove a new Maxima and the CVT was good in sport mode, a bit laggy in normal mode.

BEAR-AvHistory

FWIW my ZF8 is 1:1 in 6th - 7/8 are overdrive. Very seldom see 8th. DD in sport generally tops out in 5th, Comfort in 6th.

youngTL

The ZF9 has 4 overdrive gears though, not two. Considering this proposed 10-speed is a regular slushbox meant for use in Odysseys and the like, and not a DCT, they're probably going to squish at least 4 OD gears in, maybe even 5.

I hope the TLX moves to all DCT transmissions. They need to beef up their 8DCT for use in the TLX V6, or down-build and adapt the NSX 9DCT for transverse front-engine layout.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

"It is expected to be used in large vehicles such as the Acura RLX and Honda Odyssey, but plans have not been finalized.
Honda will build the 10-speed in-house, and it will replace Honda’s six-speed automatic for 3.5-liter, V-6 engines."

If I had to guess I would say the 10th gen Accord will get it for the V6 model - assuming they continue with the V6 model and don't move to a turbo 4. The 10th gen Accord should be pretty interesting IMO.

I swear I read that the ZF9 was a temporary solution for Honda in the TLX while they developed their own inhouse DCT that could handle the torque but I've searched high and low and can't find any reference so maybe I just dreamed it. But now that I think about it I doubt they would want to make the switch to something else after working (slowly, I know) through the bugs with the ZF9. Any new model with new tech will have new issues to work through and I'm sure once the ZF9 is properly patched it will be a good fit for a while in the TLX.

Then again - who really knows whats going on in the board rooms in Torrence - their strategy has been confusing to say the least

Ian Andrews

In Canada FWD Acura RLX and TLX (MDX and RDX only awd) have been discontinued for 2016. hopefully this tranny will be capable of working with the awd systems otherwise my excitement level will drop substantially. Acura introduced the tranny this week at the dealer principal meeting in Chicago. Hoping to hear more details and more information on new models and the A spec TLX.

Ian Andrews

FWD TLX 4 cylinders are still available.

kurtatx

That would make a ton of sense, seeing as Honda is usually good at transmissions. I couldn't believe they farmed out to ZF

BEAR-AvHistory

With all due respect will have to differ with you on this based on hands on experience + forum posts + class action suites against Honda that they lost.

Edward'TLS

No FWD RLX ?

If true, this effectively means the demise of the RLX flagship sedan in the Canadian market.

Ian Andrews

Yes this is true and no we are not losing any sleep over the decision. In Western Canada if you don't have awd sedans and SUVs the likely hood of selling a vehicle in the near luxury level on up, is tough to near impossible.

TacoBello

^ you're on drugs.

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't think the Canadian marketing people will lose any sleep over 15 less cars a month being sold .

Don1

When there are only 35 sales then 15 less is quite significant.

accord1999

Based on the way they equip the MDX in Canada, Acura has considered it their flagship for awhile now.

Rocketsfan

So if there was only 1 sale, and it went down to 0, it'd be even more significant?

BEAR-AvHistory

They only sold 14 last month which was about an 8% growth over August. 35 sales would be the best month in the past 18 months.

Point is with 168 dealers the RLX could go away & most dealers would never know it if they did not get the memo.

Stew4HD

^ The upside is that this car is quite rare. I don't see any others on the road

youngTL

They've officially discontinued the FWD V6 TLX as well for 2016 in Canada. The salesperson at my dealer said they barely sold any V6 FWD models. The hot sellers were the I4 Tech and the SH-AWD V6 Tech.

cruiserchuck

I have not heard of any class action lawsuits that Honda lost. Most class action lawsuit are settled, with the attorneys usually getting most of the benefits.

I personally have had good luck with Honda automatic transmissions, with the two I have owned both going over 200,000 miles with no problems. However, I have read about problems, mostly on cars with V6 engines.

Edward'TLS

It's sad to see the FWD V6 go away.

The FWD V6 is actually a faster car than the AWD V6, when the roads are high and dry.

TacoBello

No, no... What's sad is it to see the 6MT go away. The single best innovation cars have ever seen... Only to be crushed by the laziness of modern day car buyers. Sigh...

accord1999

It's the consumer trend in Canada; even Mercedes has gone to a nearly all AWD sedan lineup.

datadr

Amen.

Edward'TLS

This is different. Acura is a purely FWD vehicle brand.

Everyone knows RWD vehicles are shitty in the snow and on ice, so the European luxury automakers have no choice but to migrate to this AWD trend, in order to be able to sell decently up North in Canada.

Another bad side effect of axing FWD entry level trims is that this will only raise the bar to owning a Canadian Acura vehicle, and as a result, forcing potential buyers to move on to the other competitor brands.

Ian Andrews

Honda has the FWD market covered off well enough. Also Acura has not completely gone away from FWD yet as we still have the TLX 4 cylinders with PAWS and ILX's, not that we sell very many of these vehicles. I would like to see an awd system on both of these vehicles sooner than latter and then you'll see a big spike in sales.

TacoBello

For fuck sakes... RWD is NOT, I repeat, is NOT shitty in the winter.

It *can* be shitty. But so can FWD.

All a person needs is proper tires and some common sense when driving in adverse conditions. There are plenty of non-AWD BMWs, Mercs, Mustangs, BRZs/FRSs, you name it, driving around here in the winter and each one of those drivers will say the same thing. Regardless of what you drive, drive it for the conditions at hand.

Edward'TLS

Comparing apple to apple.

RWD with all-season tires = shittier than FWD with all-season tires, in the snow/ice.

RWD with winter tires = shittier than FWD with winter tires, in the snow/ice.

Tonyware

First thought on my mind... well, they better fix their 9 and 8 speed first before they go to 10. Second though... marketing gimmick. There is no need for a 10 speed. The average driver commuting from home to supermarket, work, school, whatever, doesn't need that. They need reliability. What part is it that Honda/Acura doesn't understand about that? Anything they do to ruin their reliability, by potentially introducing more problems, hurts them badly!

Re: winter etc...

On a snowy highway I'll take a FWD with winter tires any day of the week! ~30 years of winter driving in Canada has taught me that. My old '03 v6 Accord and later the '05 TL was far more stable on highways covered with snow, at high speeds. The rear end of the '09 TL SH-AWD sometimes feels like "its dancing on snow", while on a highway at ~60-70 mph, even with the X-ice tires on it. Wish there was a way to cut off the rear diff in the winter. But in the city the SH-AWD is a must, and easily gets out of tricky situations during heavy snow storms.

I can't really test the effectiveness of the SH-AWD on snowy highway, because I don't want to loose the car, and hurt myself or others. But I suspect if you push it and the rear-end starts "dancing" really hard, the VSA will probably do something totally stupid and make a bad situation even worse.

dainmezron

I can't really test the effectiveness of the SH-AWD on snowy highway, because I don't want to loose the car, and hurt myself or others. But I suspect if you push it and the rear-end starts "dancing" really hard, the VSA will probably do something totally stupid and make a bad situation even worse.[/QUOTE]



You obviously haven't seen this video, check out time 5:34!!

BEAR-AvHistory

Problem with RWD vs AWD in snow is the non compariable varaitions.

IMHO starting from stop & hill climbing with A/S tires AWD > RWD. RWD+ snow tires > AWD + A/S. AWD+ snow tires > RWD + snow tires.

Stopping & turning AWD + Snow tires = RWD + 4 snow tires. AWD with A/S tires = RWD + A/S tires.

On Ice anything without studs sucks.

BEAR-AvHistory

BTW pretty much everybody does the Enviro thing.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/40038939