TacoBello

id take an NSX over an R8. And I'm the farthest thing from an Acura fanboy. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

the only NSXs I've seen sitting at dealerships, had "sold" signs in the windows. I've heard there are NSXs sitting...but haven't seen much to support that, besides online ads. Maybe it is true. Or maybe it's just ads left over, online, on purpose. Enquiring minds will call to ask... Gives the dealer a chance to lure them in.

SebringSilver

The fact that any NSX has sold is proof that you're not the only one who thinks that way. It's very likely that anyone who's purchased a 2nd gen NSX would also have at least considered an R8 V10 Plus. If you ask me, both cars struggle to some extent with convincing the super car buyer in that neither is a Ferrari/Lambo/McLaren, regardless of how much racing pedigree Honda and Audi have built up over the years.

I still think Acura should play to its strengths though: Quality, Technology, Reliability, Value, and coming soon...a healthy dose of Performance and a little more Prestige.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Right. I was thinking more along the lines of the RLX. Granted they had some implementation issues, and for whatever reason they didn't put much marketing effort into it - but it was pretty much an epic fail at the price point they wanted.

lltfly

First time agree with you

lltfly

First time agree with you

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Nowadays the Lambos and Ferraris are more like $250k-$300k cars now to start?

A fully loaded NSX is overpriced at $206k. But let's be honest, those overpriced options don't really offer much in performance.

If I were in the market for one, I'd just get the Carbon ceramic brakes and the Trofeo R tires and I believe that's $170k total. All those CF parts are just for looks and don't really save much weight, may be 10kg or something.

HondaGuy347

NSX should've been a $120k car, even if that meant ditching the hybrid drivetrain. At $200k +/-, you're more expensive than most 911s and up against some serious competition like the McLaren 570S, R8 V10, etc. NSX should be a Carrera alternative, not $50k more expensive.

TacoBello

That's only half of the equation. The torque curve will be a significant part of new accord. HP may not change much, if at all, but it will have full torque early in the rpm band. Pair that with being 200 pounds lighter, as you suggested, and the new accord will be pretty quick overall.

I get the feeling the Accord will follow suit like the new civic Si. HP didn't change, but torque did increase. Also, I'm curious to know what these cars are actually putting out at the crank... I find it a little hard to believe that Honda exactly matched the previous Civic Si's horsepower... Me thinks it might be just a bit under rated, if anything. It's one thing to match HP from one NA engine, to another. It's another thing to match HP from an NA engine to a turbo one.

TacoBello

youre right. Those carbon bits are really just for aesthetics. They do nothing for performance. I too would option the car as you suggested. I think the only thing I would add is the carbon roof, because it looks pretty. The other carbon bits I failed to even notice unless I was directly staring and looking for them. Otherwise they just look like matte black plastic .

at about ~170k, it is a lot of performance. People say "well shit, just add 80k and buy a lambo. If you can afford an NSX, you can afford anything." Uh, yeah, no. Not at all. We have members here looking to buy or already have bought an NSX... I believe 80k to them is still a huge pot of money.

You're on drugs. The original NSX was going for 100k. Now add 12 years of inflation on top of that, a super modern drivetrain that no carrera or r8 has, two turbos, the 9 or 10 various radiators the car has, amongst a shit ton of other stuff, and yeah, the price starts to justify itself. Let's not forget that you can get the NSX out the door for 156k. If you want some carbon, you gotta pay to play. These aren't cheap ass Seibon carbon parts. They're just for looks anyway. So you get all the performance for 156k.

also, don't forget that it doesn't matter how much tech a car packs, it can only be so fast due to physics. Super cars are turning into whose got the wildest tech, not who's the fastest anymore. These cars are all within a cunt hair of one another, and even their ratings are ambiguous at best, with zero consistency behind them whatsoever. If you want to be fast for cheap, get a 15 year old Subaru and boost the shit out of it. That's not what people buy an NSX for.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I think what you are describing here might actually happen. From what I've heard, Acura will have up to 5 different models of NSX:
NSX: The one we see right now
NSX Type R: ditch front motors, up the engine power, more light weight parts, more money
NSX Convertible:
NSX EV
NSX base: no sport hybrid system <--- this is the one closest to what you want.

Again, the NSX is only $200k if you add all those useless CF dress up parts. You can configure a Porsche 911 Turbo S to be close to $300k too if you load it up.

For sure man, the area under the curve will be vastly superior than the J series or the V6 Camry. From the reviews so far, the off the line acceleration seems to be much faster now.

The Civic 1.5T sedan with its 174hp engine has been dyno'ed at 190whp on a dynojet. My guess is that the 205hp Si is probably close to 215whp.

LOL love your styling..you're on drugs...hahaha!

Yup, if you are looking for bang for the buck, I suggest getting the Corvette Grandsport with the Z07 package for less than $80k. According to car and driver, you will be smoking:
McLaren 570S
Huracán LP610-4
GT-R NISMO
458 Italia
Mercedes-AMG GT S
911 Turbo S

Lightning Lap 2016: Results, Historical Lap Times, and More ? Feature ? Car and Driver

HondaGuy347

Again, I said take OUT the fancy hybrid stuff, and a lot of that other stuff goes with it. Basically, you end up with a mid-engined GT-R with SH-AWD. I don't think expecting that for $120k is ridiculous.

And how much of the cost of the original NSX was wrapped up in the one-off factory in Japan? The new one is built in Ohio, leveraging a lot of the existing infrastructure. Also, the original was crack-pipe-priced at the end.

HondaGuy347

Cool if that happens.

Last time I built one up the $10k carbon brakes were mandatory, so with those and a couple other odds and ends (nav/ELS, leather, etc) it was $175k. I see now you can knock $10k off that for the iron brakes if so desired. Still too much, IMO, but in the right direction. Note the 570S starts at $188k, too....

TacoBello

Except that if you remove the "fancy hybrid" stuff, you will not have SH-AWD. You're complaining about the car costing 156k loaded with tech, but think it's completely reasonable to be absolutely bare bones at 120k?

also, they built a brand new facility to build the new NSX in Ohio. They didn't leverage existing infrastructure. You need to get your facts straight.

It's a super car, intended to be for a select few. They have no desire in diluting it.

HondaGuy347

Umm, you can do SH-AWD without hybrid stuff, the TLX and others do just fine with it. Basically, take a V6TT TLX and flip it around to make it mid-engined and RWD-based.

Absolutely bare-bones? It's still a V6TT mid-engined car. I'm literally talking about just ripping out the hybrid garbage.

It's on the existing Ohio campus. It is exactly leveraging existing infrastructure (land, facilities, warehouses, labor, supply chain, etc etc etc). Yes it's a new building, but it's not like they built it in PA or something far away from their Ohio site.

Or selling it, apparently.

TacoBello

Bro, there's no drive shaft going to the front. You can't just magically cram one in and be like "oh yeah, this'll work jus' fine!" They would have to redesign the car

the "hybrid garbage" is what defines the NSX as it currently is. What you are asking for will come in the form of the Type R. Expect to pay another $50,000 for that car though. Why don't you buy a used Audi R8? It'll suit your budget and you'll get what you're looking for.

Do you have any idea how much money Acura/Honda had to invest into that facility in Ohio? And they needed new supply chains, new labor, new tooling equipment, new training of labor, new...


This is a matter of your own opinion. I'm guessing you took another member's opinion and treated it as gospel. According to the Acura monthly (or quarterly? I dunno) sales reports that get posted on AZ, the NSX is selling exactly as Honda/Acura wanted it to sell. Here, let me help you:



Honda was shooting to sell 600 NSXs per year. By the end of May (after 5 months), they have sold 247 units. That makes the NSX sales rates on par, or just ever so slightly below what they were expecting. And yes, they specifically wanted to limit sales numbers to about ~600 units/year, because they didn't want to have the same thing happen that occurred with the 1G NSX... it sold like hot cakes for the first two years and then sales severely plummeted.

HondaGuy347

Calm down, bro. I was saying that's how it should have been done in the first place.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha yup, if you look a few posts up, that's how I'd configure my NSX if I ever had that kind of spare money - $156k base + CF brakes + Trofeo R tires for about $170K. May be get the ELS/Nav for $175k total. Yup, the 570S is a great choice in this segment. It's pretty much the most fun to drive one and perhaps the fastest one too. It does gives up a bit of refinement and build quality compared to others in this class though. Also, you can load it up to well over $200k if you want some Carbon brakes, CF parts, nicer stereo, some luxury features, etc.

TacoBello

Let's add in to that price the maintenance schedule of an NSX vs the maintenance schedule of a 570S, and the reliability of each car as well. That 570S will end up costing a whole bunch more than the NSX, no matter how you split it.

HondaGuy347

Is Mclaren maintenance that bad? I hadn't heard that before. If you want a Daily Driver, the NSX (or the R8, or a 911) is the way to go. But that's not how I'd use them so I don;t care. Would be a toy for me.

Saintor

He doesn't know. He ass-umes.

TacoBello

McLaren is a very small company, with very limited dealerships. They are a boutique car manufacture, producing cars no cheaper than ~200k US. Have you ever seen maintenance frequency and costs on a Ferrari or Lamborghini? They are astronomical and require servicing much more frequently than your average car.

McLaren charges about $2000-2500 a year to maintain a 570S. This is just basic maintenance though. Fluids, etc. Haven't seen prices regarding brakes, as the 570S is still new and no one seemingly has had to do them. The biggest fear would be stuff related to reliability in the car. You only have warranty for 3 years and then you're on your own.

But if you look at cars like the McLaren F1... That thing needs a $30,000 US servicing, every year.

to boot, look at the McLaren forum (McLaren life). Guys have little issues there all the time and they can be rather expensive to fix. Once again, it's just something that comes along with owning a boutique car.

the beauty of the NSX is that you can likely take it any Acura dealer and get it fixed. It's maintenance is much cheaper too. Don't have a McLaren dealer nearby? Too bad!

svtmike

Do people in the supercar market really cross shop them like you would a Civic and Corolla?

These cars always struck me as much more of an emotional purchase than a logical one. You have the money, one speaks to you, and you buy it.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Agian, keep your ramblings e-fight crap out of the model forums.

TacoBello

yes... But which car evokes the most emotion for you? Which one speaks to you the most? I mean, even if I could burn a cool million on cars, I'd still shop around to see what makes me the happiest. Get the best bang for my buck. That, and I could easily spend $500 million on cars, so....

HondaGuy347

That's Ferrari and Lamborghini. Do you know about McLaren, specifically? Also, if you're going to have a meltdown about people calling the NSX a $200k car, I'll point out that the 570S starts at $188k.

So that's $2k-2500. Doesn't seem out of line.

That's a 25 y/o car that sold for $1M when new and $10M+ now. Come on man.

Meh.

You say that, but it's not necessarily true. Will every Acura dealer be equipped to service an NSX? Will every Acura dealer be equipped to service it competently? I have my doubts.

At any rate, I live pretty near Lake Forest Sports Cars. Saw this last time I was there....

TacoBello

I've quashed every argument you had. I've already posted costs. do I need to do this all over again?

I like how you purposely say "meh" to

Ok baller. "I whine about a 156k car, but have no issues dropping 188k plus way more over the ownership period. Also, the NSX better only be 120k, based on my non scientific review of the car and knowing all of acura's profit margins, and anything else related to the NSX"

Also, any dealership that sells the NSX needed to be upgraded to be able to service the NSX also. This included training and mandatory equipment/tool purchases by the dealerships.

Continue to embarrass yourself. I have all day

HondaGuy347

What are we, in combat here? Calm down man, we're just BSing about cars.

At the end of the day I don't think the NSX has the prestige or appeal to demand the price Acura is charging. And I think once the initial demand burns off, the sales will reflect that.

Others, like McLaren, Audi, and Porsche are in a far better position to do so. And their sales reflect it. And of note, I am in no position to buy any $100k+ car, and don't expect to be any time soon, but I do feel that I can opine on the relative merits and costs of these cars. It is possible to simultaneously think that an NSX is overpriced and the price to maintain a 570S at ~$2500/yr is not out of line. You disagree, that's fine with me.

TacoBello

I'm still not sure how you're confusing me laughing at you (hence the ) as me being angry.

Again, you missed the great big part of my argument, saying it is expensive to own a car like a McLaren. it goes beyond the maintenance price. If you're car is creeping up with gremlins post 3 year warranty period, you're likely going to want them fixed on a 200k car, are you not? That's when you get hit with the big dollars. Those maintenance prices are also for "Basic" maintenance. It didn't even include brakes. The cost to own the NSX is still way cheaper overall.

HondaGuy347

Your whole "quashing arguments" schtick. Again, we're just BSing here. There's nothing to "win."

How are there gremlins post warranty, the 570S isn't three+ years old yet. And it is substantially simpler than the other McLaren cars (no hydraulic suspension, etc). I'm not going to dispute that a 570S is more expensive to run than an NSX, I believe that, but I don't think we're in the F355 engine-out-service-every-3-years bad old days and I think the spread is probably not that substantial. And I also think that for most people who are going to use these as a toy rather than a DD, they will accept slightly higher running costs in return for more prestige, a most interesting drive, and other intangibles. Basically the NSX is way cheaper to own because it has to be.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

NSX IS expensive because of its price tag, because of the Acura brand image, and because there's a huge price gap between the NSX and the next most expensive Acura.

It doesn't mean it's not a good deal in a sense that the things Honda put into the car is well worth that price tag.

cu2wagon

Is Honda selling this NSX in other "Honda" markets?

Is the price compatible/equivalent to the US market where it's got the prestigious Acura brand and marketing associated with it?

TacoBello

Yes of course. In Germany, they have the Honda NSX and it costs more than an in the US. And yet they had two with sold signs in the windows.

SebringSilver

If memory serves, the NSX is sold as a Honda in Japan, in the UK and Europe, in Australia, and certain parts of Asia. I think this is actually hurting the Acura brand, to a certain extent. Acura seems to be handicapped by the fact that it's not truly a global brand.

TeamAcura

The pricing for the NSX is a bit ambitious and a big jump for the Acura brand. It definitely qualifies and has everything a supercar or halo car should have but Acura does not have the prestige and history to compared to the Ferarris and McLarens of the world. Maybe if they limited production to a few hundred, I can understand but that's not the case. IMO it should of been priced more in line with the GTRs and 911s instead.

SebringSilver

As I look for something to replace my R8 V10, I've definitely thought about the new NSX. Part of that is also out of nostalgia as I had two NSXes when I was in my 20's. They really gave me wonderful memories. If you analyze the new car, it really is worth the money they want for it. But Acura's ongoing problem seems to be one of marketing. They haven't taken the time to upgrade the brand across the entire product range, the way Audi did for almost 15 years before they launched the R8. It's a bit amazing that they don't understand that. Still a great car though the new NSX.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Ya the NSX looks expensive because the next most expensive Acura is what, $65k RLX Sport Hybrid Advance? Whereas for Audi, they have the $150-$200k R8, but they also have several $100K+ cars like the RS7 and S8. And I'd imagine one can configure a S7 and A8 to be above $100k too.

It's more of a perception issue.

Ideally, when the NSX was launched, the other Acura models should be well in place to compete with others. But it is what it is, and the next best thing is to hope that the next gen Acura models are truly competitive.

nebula

So how does a thread about Honda ending the accord V-6 ends up being a discussion about the NSX, just saying .

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Honda Dropping V6 in Accord -> will a V6 becomes a premium item in the next TLX -> is J series really a premium product -> is Acura a premium brand that is good enough to sell a $150-$200k NSX

nebula

I get what your saying and appreciate an in depth discussion, I just feel we combined two subject matters into one thread. Not trying to start a fight it just feels like we left the original subject matter, that's all.

TacoBello

Soooo anyone else (besides Saintor) excited about the Honda Accord turning to turbos, or nah?