graphicguy

That makes the most sense. Given the very low volumes on the RLX, and the amount of development they put into that hybrid power plant, popping it into a Type-S TLX would be a way to recoup that investment and add another model to the TLX lineup.

TacoBello

i believe you're completely, entirely wrong on this. Sorry, but people who are considering an accord aren't looking to step up another 8k in price. Otherwise, they wouldn't even consider the accord in the first place and stick to vehicles in the range of the TLX.

case in point: As pointed out, only 10% of accord buyers were buying a V6. 90% of people were looking for a "value added" vehicle and don't seem to really care for a bigger engine. Now you think they'll spend several thousands more to get a V6 TLX? I highly doubt it.

Also, I retract my yesterday's statement regarding the 2.0T. After more consideration, I think it may suit the car pretty well. As for those who want to get more power, Hondata exists for a very safe boost in power. Also, an intake and exhaust would free up some good power, without having to change boost levels. The only downside is tuning would be required for any mods then (same like a Subaru, etc.). It just means it'll be some extra $$$ to mod, but, the good news is the gains will likely be more substantial than the same mods on an NA engine.

Its nice to see the whole world turning to turbos and realizing they are the future, regardless if some people don't love them. This will also help keep the future for modding interesting, when the cars come off warranty and become cheaper to purchase... You're already packing an engine with fairly robust internals and set up for turbos. That's 3/4s of the battle to go boosted.

Either way, it's cool to see Honda joining the turbo ranks in full force. Also interesting to see VTEC start going the way of the dinosaurs. It was what made Honda, Honda, back in the late 80s throughout the 90s.

TacoBello

Also, I wonder what kind of power levels the Accord will feature. I think HP will remain the same as the current V6, which means it will be lower than the new Camry... But dat torque curve. It will put the Camry to shame. The nice thing, although the HP is lower than the Camry is that the useable daily power will be greater than at of the Camry. To hit 301hp in the Camry, you'll have to rev it to near red line... That's not what a car like the accord or Camry were ever intended to do.

I'm soooo stoked for the future of Honda!!! Seriously, I haven't felt this excited for the brand (both H and A) in at least a decade. The future looks good!!

b4hand

?????

I think we all need to look on the bright side. The Acura version of the engine will probably have more HP then the Type R, I am thinking 320-340. PLUS its turbo. Easy tune and a downpipe, maybe and iintercooler and we could see big gains. Once we see what Cobb/Hondata will do with the type r 2.0, we can see what the gains will be out of the accord/tlx

RDX10

You also can't assume people are looking at cars several thousands below what they can actually afford either. There is a reason a majority of cars sales of any model are typically the middle trim. People want a balance of features and price. I have read countless times (including on here) that for some people not having the option of X-engine meant they moved to another equivalent brand, rarely if ever do they move up several thousand for that option.

You don't know me, so don't speak for me and stop trying to turn every thread personal. Where did I say I hoped it won't happen? Nowhere. So don't speak on my behalf. Excuse me for thinking Acura won't stick to 20 year old naturally aspirated engine design for another year while simultaneously disappointing their fan base for the 10th year in a row. Excuse me for not jumping for joy at exposed exhaust tips on a "precision crafted performance" sedan. Excuse me for finding it hard to believe that Acura would start producing performance engines when their competitors have been doing so for well over 10 years.I don't need to and won't justify my opinion of the brand to you, I suggest you stop making personal attacks. We get it, you sell Acuras.

Exactly. Thank you. Very very few people look in the class below or above what they can afford. Besides, the general public IMO is not as brand loyal as they used to be. To those who want a V6, the camry will be their only option now along with a couple of domestic options (if they still offer V6's). But I suspect that a large proportion of people simply don't care what is under the hood. It will be the probably superior EPA ratings that will be what they worry about.

RDX10

Agreed. I am actually excited that they are dropping the "archaic" V6 in place of this 2.0T. I am certain the aftermarket support will be awesome and with the DOHC and DI components it should produce a nice bump in power from a simple tune. I don't see anything wrong with sharing engine between Honda and Acura (VW has been doing this for years with Audi) as long as the Acura gets the more powerful version.

Speed_Racer

I hope his definition of "signficant" is more than 16hp or 35hp for the last 2 Type S's. The Sport Hybrid on the MDX is a 31hp gain which seems to fall inline with how they add hp. I'm hopeful Ikeda wanting to compete with S and F models from Audi and Lexus means 100+ hp upgrades from stock. Damn, a 400hp Type S with AWD and a 6 speed manual would be a dream and I wouldn't be able to write a check fast enough. . .

CaliAtenza

If a 6 speed manual is on offer for the Type-S it would be pretty sweet. I'd get the autobox in any case.

cu2wagon

Manual transmission. That's cute.

rowing your own. Hello CVT newgod.

kurtatx

CVT must be executed. Bad. bad. bad.

TacoBello

I retracted my original statement. At first I was like "fuck the accord will never have more than 300hp safely!"

And then I realized I was a tool and realized the accord was never intended to even have 300hp... it's a conservative, reliable, economic family car and daily driver. and if it does, fuck yeah. And there are methods on keeping the engine safe and still getting awesome power down.

Truth be told, I'm super stoked for the 2.0T, after some careful consideration. Some won't like it. And that's fine. You can't please everyone (Saintor). But it has plenty of potential to be plenty of fun. You would never want 400hp to the front wheels anyway. If you could crank it out to 325 whp, you'd have a very fun, reliable and solid daily driver.

My only pipe dream would be a 6mt. I don't see it happening, though.

Also, as Nexx pointed out, it seems acura understands that 350hp won't cut it for a sport model acura. Not that 350hp is bad... but given the market and competitors, it seems they are aiming higher. If They are aiming higher, that means likely a V6T in the future. That means happier acura enthusiasts.

RDX10

I'm genuinely hoping Acura comes out with a V6T. If it finds it's way into the MDX or somehow the RDX I'm on the list for buying one! V6T + SH-AWD!

TacoBello

*if* the TLX-S came as Nexx suggested, with a 6mt option, I'd be walking into the Acura dealer the day it's released with a blank cheque in hand. I'll let the dealership write in the final price. Ok, maybe not day 1, but within the first year. My only hesitation would be to see what kind of gremlins the car may have. If it's problem free, I'm giving them a blank cheque.

RDX10

It's going to be a really important few years at Acura here. They either do it now or stay at mediocre forever. I hope they choose to really push for it this time.

TacoBello

I get the feeling they're [Acura] on the right track.

I dont expect acura to put out M3 slayers, or even competitors. I'd actually prefer them not to. But I do want them to have a distinct level of sportiness, like they once used to have.

RDX10

Agreed! Me too. I don't care for M3 or RS or AMG power levels and capabilities, but I just want that sort of quirky old school Acura back again. What I really don't like about current Acuras is not the styling, nor is it really the powertrain. It is that they feel like appliances to me. I hope they will start having soul again.

F23A4

Jumping ship to another make is one way of accepting this change.

neuronbob

It's really funny. Honda was one of the last aboard of the mainstream makes in offering a V6 in the Accord in the first place....and they are now one of the first to jump off. I'm 100% sure that non-enthusiasts, who make up the majority of Accord buyers, are buying I4s instead of V6s.

It's probably different for the TLX, which at its heart is an Accord, but only Acura knows the take rate for the I4 vs. V6. Here in snow country, it's probably close to 100% as folks here are tuned into the SH-AWD variant.

F23A4

The last time I recall a Honda sales report with a mention of the TLX, I think the V6s far outsold the i4s. But, I think this may have been early in the model lifecycle.

ronricks

x2.

TeamAcura

My guess is the ASPEC will be just like what the Lexus F Sport, Audi S Line and BMW M Sport are offering now. The Type-S will be the real deal performance model that should compete against the RS4/5s, ISFs, M3/4s of the world. And based on your comments, I believe this will be the case. I think it will be loosely based on the TLX GT car.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

The real question about the theoretical Type-S, if it does indeed compete performance wise, is where do they slot it price-wise? The A-Spec with SHAWD sits around 45k USD - does a Type-S sit in the 50's then??

TacoBello

I could see it being in the 50k realm.

No, it's not cheap. But performance is never cheap. And if anything, even at 55k, it's still much cheaper than an M3, etc.

In comparison, I think the 3G TL-S was a relative bargain, but that was another era, without forced induction or sport hybrid technology. I don't imagine Acura will sell a ton of the TLX-S, but I hope it's enough for them to continue the model for generations to come.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

there's the Q60 coupe 2.0T sport pushing 300hp for $48-50k

TacoBello

Yes, but if what nexx said is true, the TLX-S will have something more than a 2.0T. I don't know if that means a 2.0T and SH, or a V6T.

I'm being cautiously optimistic, but apparently Ikeda hinted at shooting for the 400hp range. That's more in line with the Red Sport version of the Q50, not the lower version.

Either way, that in itself is enough to likely push it into the 50k range.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

i was just trying to hit that $50k number...the red sport from $51-53

RDX10

I built and priced a TLX on Acura Canada and the TLX A-spec Elite is going for 55k. I'm not sure what the performance bump is planned to be for the Type S but when it starts pushing that 60K boundry it might be pricing itself too high unless it is a legitimate bump and not just some 20-30hp bump.

SebringSilver

Would be interesting to see if Acura goes after the S4/C43 AMG category first, before diving straight into C63/M3 territory. Having driven the new A-Spec for a couple of days, I'm certain this chassis could easily handle 400 hp. All it would need is bigger brakes, and better rubber. The handling is already there.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Right - let's go crazy and imagine a 400 hp TLX. 55K??

RDX10

I'd imagine Acura would not want to jump in head first to this extremely competitive segment. They will most likely dip toes prior to jumping in.

TacoBello

I meant 55k US. Yeah it's a lot of money. But as Justin just pointed out, the Red Sport is in that realm.


Well, I'm solely going by what Nexx posted (I don't remember which TLX thread it was... There's been many regarding the new car). I have zero to base anything on, but he suggested a ~400hp Type S, and suggested that Acura is well aware that a 305-350hp Type S just won't cut it. We will have to wait and see if this is true, or if it's just talk.

if it is true, 400hp would be keeping it on the same level as the Lincoln equivalent, and the Infiniti Red Sport. As Justin pointed out, the red sport goes for 51-53k, and has 400hp... It would make sense for Acura to try and compete with these cars. I just threw 55k out there, but realistically, Id imagine it would be a couple thousand below that, just like the Red Sport range.

I have no idea why Acura wouldn't shoot for the 400hp range... That would mean a V6T. It's not a far fetched idea in today's car market, even if it is a stretch for Honda/Acura.

Alterntaviely, I could see a 2.0T with the sport hybrid... But I get the feeling it will be just as expensive. Even if it is only putting out around 330hp, I get the feeling it would be nearly as fast as the RS400. That electrical torque will launch the car very quickly. There is one problem though: optics. Even if the car is as fast as a RS400, its specs imply that it is slower. I'm not sure how savvy your average Type S buyer would be, but if people were in that range and debating between the RS400 and the Type S, at nearly the same price point, people might be swayed from the Type S.

I dunno. There's not enough info out right now. Time will tell, I guess.

TacoBello

Either way, even at 400hp, it is still nowhere near M3/C63 territory. The M3 pushes 450hp and is known for its handling characteristics. The C63 pushes even more tire shredding power. But... Consider the pricing... They both are beyond 55k in a big way. As I mentioned before, I don't want Acura to go into that realm.

RDX10

I don't know if it's just me but I don't feel like Acura has the brand cache to steal away buyers from BMW, Lexus, Merc, and Audi. So they have to be careful not to price themseleves too much. Acura has always done best when they provide value-premium cars IMHO.

TacoBello

They would be pricing themselves against the RS400, which is still below the sport German models.

yeah, obviously a top end sport Acura would be in line with lower level German models, in terms of price point. That's unavoidable. But Acura isn't trying to steal German brand customers. They are trying to provide their own customers a sport variant. If you want a sport variant to cost 40k US, well, keep your expectations low.

I dunno. It seems Nexx was more right than wrong in the past, even though I didn't buy into any of it. This time around I think I may just listen a bit more to him.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

That's where I'm headed with this, at 55K-ish they lose the luxury value shoppers. Are there enough Acura enthusiasts who can/would pony up that kind of cash for a TLX? Right or wrong some people want a specific badge in their garage if they're spending that kind of money.

TacoBello

Those who want a 400hp car are not value shoppers, in any sense of the word.

how many RS400s does Infiniti sell?

it's not intended to be a big seller.

SebringSilver

Acura should stop and think about what they learned with the whole 2nd gen NSX exercise. A fully loaded NSX that costs more than a fully loaded R8 V10 Plus isn't an easy sell. It's ridiculously difficult trying to change a company's brand positioning. After all these years of trying, Audi is still mindful of this and doesn't price their cars above their direct Mercedes and BMW competition.

Acura definitely is going in the right direction but they need something to bridge the gulf between an NSX and the next rung down. Not only do they need a performance-oriented sedan like everyone here is talking about, but they should be thinking about a 2-door coupe using that same engine that were all hoping for.

Speed_Racer

Yup. You see this with the NSX. They're just sitting on lots now.

SebringSilver

Oh, I forgot to mention....Honda needs to start selling Acuras in Europe as Acuras, and that includes the NSX. Acura needs to be a global brand, if they're ever going to overcome its branding handicap.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

We will see!

I think I've seen one review regarding the lazy changing gear but most reviews out there are suggesting otherwise. Perhaps it depends if you are in normal mode or sport mode?

Yea the 8DCT is Acura exclusive. Perhaps they might just stuck with the 10AT if it performs well.

Haha I was gonna quote what you said in another thread but realized you changed your stance on this ..lol

I think Honda been exploring this option for a long time, just like direct injection. The key for them is to make sure the real world benefits and reliability are there. Some of the early adopters like Hyundai and some early ecoboost models just did;'t really deliver in the real world.

I heard that the power level will be between the current Accord V6 and CTR, so, anywhere between 278hp - 306hp. My guess is 285hp. That's lower than the Camry, but Honda claims that the new Accord is about 200lb lighter overall than the 9g Accord.