Honda announces end of v-6 for Accord.

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Old 06-16-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
Sunroof I could not care less about, but no leather? That would be a deal breaker.
Fixed.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CheeseyPoofs McNut
Originally Posted by horseshoez
Per the Honda press release I read a few days ago, there will be three drivetrain setups:
  1. Hybrid
  2. 1.5 liter turbo with either a 10-Speed automatic or a 6-Speed manual
  3. 2.0 liter turbo with either a 10-Speed automatic or a 6-Speed manual
I suppose that technically makes five drivetrain setups, but hey, if three pedals are being offered under the dash, I don't care how they count them.
No more CVT??? Interesting - they have a fair amount invested in it - I thought for sure it had another generation left in it.

Anyways - good news on the 6MT.
Correction.

1.5T gets either a CVT or 6MT
2.0T gets either a 10 speed auto or 6MT

All-New 10th Generation Honda Accord Launching This Year with Advanced New Powertrain Lineup - Honda News

The 2018 Accord will feature two available high-torque, high-efficiency turbocharged powerplants, a 1.5-liter direct-injected DOHC Turbo with dual variable cam timing (dual VTC), mated to either a Honda continuously variable automatic transmission (CVT) or 6-speed manual transmission; and a 2.0-liter direct-injected DOHC Turbo with i-VTEC® valvetrain, paired with a 10-speed automatic transmission – the industry's first 10AT for a front-wheel-drive passenger car – or a 6-speed manual. An all-new, even more refined Accord Hybrid will be powered by the next-generation of Honda's innovative two-motor hybrid technology, which uniquely operates without the use of a conventional automatic transmission.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser
Fixed.
To each his (or her) own. I have my sun shade back maybe 15% of the time and the actual roof open maybe 5% of the time; I have no issues buying a car with no moonroof at all. That said, only leather for my butt.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser
Correction.

1.5T gets either a CVT or 6MT
2.0T gets either a 10 speed auto or 6MT

All-New 10th Generation Honda Accord Launching This Year with Advanced New Powertrain Lineup - Honda News
Thanks for the correction; I guess my brain was more fixated on the availability of the 6MT than the autotragic transmissions.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
I wonder if Honda fears the long term reliability of the CVT. I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but a friend of mine working at a Nissan dealership says they have on average 2 vehicles a day come in with shot CVT transmissions.

Ive heard a number of people suggest that CVTs are a bit concerning when it comes to long term ownership. No idea how true it is. I wouldn't buy one even if they were bullet proof.
CVT's are garbage. Always were and always will be. Yes in terms of drive-ability they have come so far, but in terms of long term reliability they just don't have it. Go look on Kijiji at the murano's and rogues and subarus that use CVT's, many will state "New transmission added X kms ago". I have seen it so often now that I will never buy a CVT equipped car. Nissan somehow even gave the pathfinder a 5000 (6500?) tow capacity with the CVT, good luck with longevity with that transmission.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cu2wagon
Hmm... Do we bet that the 2.0T with the 6MT will not be available with Leather or sunroof?
If 2.0T is replacing V6 and V6 was only available on EX-L and Touring trims (all of which had leather interiors), then I'd bet that all 2.0T Accords will have leather interiors.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor
Most useless reply of the day.
Thank you, coming from you that is high praise indeed.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
To each his (or her) own.


What I meant is that the correct phrase is "I could not care less." You wrote "I could care less" which implies that you do care whether it has a sunroof or not.

Grammar Girl : "Could Care Less" Versus "Couldn't Care Less" :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?

People say they could care less when, logically, they mean they couldn’t care less.

The phrase "I couldn’t care less" originated in Britain and made its way to the United States in the 1950s. The phrase "I could care less" appeared in the US about a decade later.

In the early 1990s, the well-known Harvard professor and language writer Stephen Pinker argued that the way most people say could care less—the way they emphasize the words—implies they are being ironic or sarcastic.

Other linguists have argued that the type of sound at the end of "couldn’t" is naturally dropped by sloppy or slurring speakers.

Regardless of the reason people say they could care less, it is one of the more common language peeves because of its illogical nature. To say you could care less means you have a bit of caring left, which is not what the speakers seem to intend. The proper "couldn’t care less" is still the dominant form in print, but "could care less" has been steadily gaining ground since its appearance in the 1960s.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser
Correction.

1.5T gets either a CVT or 6MT
2.0T gets either a 10 speed auto or 6MT

All-New 10th Generation Honda Accord Launching This Year with Advanced New Powertrain Lineup - Honda News
this makes sense. Honda probably felt/knew that the 2.0T torque would destroy the CVT in due time.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
this makes sense. Honda probably felt/knew that the 2.0T torque would destroy the CVT in due time.
And most people who buy the 1.5T version don't even know or care what kind of transmission they have in the car.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser
Correction.

1.5T gets either a CVT or 6MT
2.0T gets either a 10 speed auto or 6MT

All-New 10th Generation Honda Accord Launching This Year with Advanced New Powertrain Lineup - Honda News
This make sense. The CVT is paired to the 1.5T in all other model applications (that I can think of atm), so it should in the Accord as well.
Old 06-16-2017, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CheeseyPoofs McNut
And most people who buy the 1.5T version don't even know or care what kind of transmission they have in the car.
Old 06-16-2017, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser


What I meant is that the correct phrase is "I could not care less." You wrote "I could care less" which implies that you do care whether it has a sunroof or not.

Grammar Girl : "Could Care Less" Versus "Couldn't Care Less" :: Quick and Dirty Tips ?
As it turns out, the way I originally wrote it holds true to my intent; if a moonroof is offered I'll most likely opt for it but if it isn't, I don't really care. Said another way, I do have some caring left, just not enough for it to be a deal breaker either way.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser
If 2.0T is replacing V6 and V6 was only available on EX-L and Touring trims (all of which had leather interiors), then I'd bet that all 2.0T Accords will have leather interiors.
Yeah, I now realize what I was thinking of... It wasn't across the board Accords, it was the Manual Sedan. When they brought out the "Sport" version and it didn't come with leather or sunroof. Or maybe there was leather. And I think it only came in silver or white or something like that.

There was some dumb Honda-ism about it that really grinded my gears (no pun intended, in fact the POS I test drove had the CVT). Ultimately leading to buying the TSX, which brought be to Azine, which as Tacobello so succinctly pointed out, has lead to my absolute lack of useful contribution to this or any topic.

There's just this nagging feeling I have that Honda will be like, "Hey consumers! Here's a potentially cool car that you can't equip like you want... Enjoy driving your appliance! Dumbasses."

But who know. Maybe they'll get it right?
Old 06-16-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cu2wagon
But who know. Maybe they'll get it right?
Agreed; a full boat Accord EX-L 2.0T with a 6MT will go a heck of a long way toward getting it right.
Old 06-16-2017, 03:16 PM
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I wonder what is Honda's justification to add a 10th gear (like GM or Ford did with their partnership on the 10-speed). I have 9 and not feeling that I am missing it (and would do with 7).
Old 06-16-2017, 03:19 PM
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Better fuel economy?

More gears = more time in the optimal power range.

CVT with it's theoretical infinite "gears" seemed to be the magic bean. Except it generally sucks, so cramming as many gears into a slushbox will get as much KM per litre as possible.
Old 06-16-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cu2wagon
Better fuel economy?

More gears = more time in the optimal power range.

CVT with it's theoretical infinite "gears" seemed to be the magic bean. Except it generally sucks, so cramming as many gears into a slushbox will get as much KM per litre as possible.
The thing about the theoretical "Optimal Power Range" on modern engines is there really is no such a thing. Given dynamic valve timing (and sometimes lift and duration), multi-path intakes, and overall computer control of the engine, the so called optimal power range is very broad, and as such, I rather doubt there will be any performance and/or fuel economy benefit when comparing say a 6-speed automatic to a 10-speed automatic, all else being equal (which of course it rarely, if ever, is).
Old 06-16-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cu2wagon
Yeah, I now realize what I was thinking of... It wasn't across the board Accords, it was the Manual Sedan. When they brought out the "Sport" version and it didn't come with leather or sunroof. Or maybe there was leather. And I think it only came in silver or white or something like that.

There was some dumb Honda-ism about it that really grinded my gears (no pun intended, in fact the POS I test drove had the CVT). Ultimately leading to buying the TSX, which brought be to Azine, which as Tacobello so succinctly pointed out, has lead to my absolute lack of useful contribution to this or any topic.

There's just this nagging feeling I have that Honda will be like, "Hey consumers! Here's a potentially cool car that you can't equip like you want... Enjoy driving your appliance! Dumbasses."

But who know. Maybe they'll get it right?
The US got screwed on the accord sport also. Canada got the moonroof and leather and some other mumbo jumbo on the Sport. I'm confused as to why they differentiate that much between neighboring countries.
Old 06-16-2017, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
The US got screwed on the accord sport also. Canada got the moonroof and leather and some other mumbo jumbo on the Sport. I'm confused as to why they differentiate that much between neighboring countries.
Couldn't agree more. My soon to be sold 2001 Honda Accord EX V6 Sedan was not available in North America south of the Canadian border with heated mirrors, meanwhile north of that same border ALL Accords, regardless of trim level, were equipped with them. Seriously? What is it about say Michigan versus Ontario where the former shouldn't have heated exterior mirrors, but the latter absolutely needs them?
Old 06-16-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
The thing about the theoretical "Optimal Power Range" on modern engines is there really is no such a thing. Given dynamic valve timing (and sometimes lift and duration), multi-path intakes, and overall computer control of the engine, the so called optimal power range is very broad, and as such, I rather doubt there will be any performance and/or fuel economy benefit when comparing say a 6-speed automatic to a 10-speed automatic, all else being equal (which of course it rarely, if ever, is).
I can't speak to the first part. Sounds logical but I have no experience.

For the second part though, the 6 vs 10 speed; well, I think the biggest discriminator there is the fact that the auto manufacturers are being pressed into an EPA fuel economy figure (at least in the USofA) that they are moving towards with smaller engines and higher # gear boxes (along with other tricks).

But the thing is that it's all basically the standardized testing of the car world. Since that's basically what they're being graded on, that's what they're working towards; to pass a test under highly controlled variables and environments.

In the real world will you or I see an appreciable difference between 6 and 9 or 10 or CVT∞? Probably not. Maybe. Depends.

But on the lab test under closely controlled conditions? Sure. Probably makes a big difference.

SO in the end, AutoCo gets an A+ on their test but the consumer gets some autotragic box of rubberbands to commute with.
Old 06-16-2017, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
The US got screwed on the accord sport also. Canada got the moonroof and leather and some other mumbo jumbo on the Sport. I'm confused as to why they differentiate that much between neighboring countries.
2017 Accord Sport SE has leather seats.

2017 Honda Accord Arrives in Showrooms with New Sport Special Edition - Press Releases - Honda News

For 2017 Honda is introducing the Accord Sport Special Edition sedan with premium features consisting of leather seats with red stitching, heated seats and "Special Edition" badge.
Old 06-16-2017, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AZuser
Just like clockwork before a new gen release. I think they release an SE version each time.
Old 06-16-2017, 04:17 PM
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But still no moon roof
Old 06-16-2017, 04:21 PM
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They should slip in a Sport V6 w/6MT.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
But still no moon roof
But no moon roof = lower curb weight and lower center of gravity.
Old 06-16-2017, 09:09 PM
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Fuck that, I'll take the moonroof! Canada also got some other shit, like (I think) turn signal lights on the mirrors, and I dunno, a handful of other things. As oonowindow pointed out, Canada is fuck all of a market. I'm surprised Honda differentiates between Canada and the US.

However, It appears lots of Canadians do buy Honda products though. And it appears we likely spend a few more dollars on our cars than the US (beyond the exchange rate), attributing for more features.
Old 06-16-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
Fuck that, I'll take the moonroof! Canada also got some other shit, like (I think) turn signal lights on the mirrors, and I dunno, a handful of other things. As oonowindow pointed out, Canada is fuck all of a market. I'm surprised Honda differentiates between Canada and the US.

However, It appears lots of Canadians do buy Honda products though. And it appears we likely spend a few more dollars on our cars than the US (beyond the exchange rate), attributing for more features.
No shit, they even get a 4cyl Touring model with a 6sp manual. You'd think that would sell here.
Old 06-16-2017, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
As it turns out, the way I originally wrote it holds true to my intent; if a moonroof is offered I'll most likely opt for it but if it isn't, I don't really care. Said another way, I do have some caring left, just not enough for it to be a deal breaker either way.
as far as I know, the 13+ I4 EX sedan was offered with a 6MT, so it had the moonroof, keyless start, display audio, ect.. Not sure if they kept it that way on the 16 refresh though
Old 06-16-2017, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by crazyasiantl
as far as I know, the 13+ I4 EX sedan was offered with a 6MT, so it had the moonroof, keyless start, display audio, ect.. Not sure if they kept it that way on the 16 refresh though
They might have a typo on their website. It shows the Touring with a 6 speed manual still. I assumed it was still the case, but it doesn't come up in the "Build" section.

Old 06-17-2017, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
Fuck that, I'll take the moonroof! Canada also got some other shit, like (I think) turn signal lights on the mirrors, and I dunno, a handful of other things. As oonowindow pointed out, Canada is fuck all of a market. I'm surprised Honda differentiates between Canada and the US.

However, It appears lots of Canadians do buy Honda products though. And it appears we likely spend a few more dollars on our cars than the US (beyond the exchange rate), attributing for more features.
Acura /Honda is like the ONLY company that favours the Canadian market when it comes to features and content. Like we had the white on black leather interior option for a long time before the U.S could and our 3G MDX had surround view camera and real wood trim among other things before they could even option it on the MDX. But it appears it's starting to tip in the other direction because our TLX A-Spec can't be had with red or blue on red like it can in the states.
Old 06-17-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RDX10
Acura /Honda is like the ONLY company that favours the Canadian market when it comes to features and content.
Not really; same stuff seems to happen in the Mazda world. Back in 2009 I bought a new Mazda3, and similar to my 2001 Honda, I found the ONLY way to get heated exterior mirrors was to live north of the Canadian border; apparently New Hampshire doesn't get enough winter weather to justify heated mirrors; funny thing though, the first winter I had that Mazda we got over 100" of snow.
Old 06-17-2017, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RDX10
Acura /Honda is like the ONLY company that favours the Canadian market when it comes to features and content. Like we had the white on black leather interior option for a long time before the U.S could and our 3G MDX had surround view camera and real wood trim among other things before they could even option it on the MDX. But it appears it's starting to tip in the other direction because our TLX A-Spec can't be had with red or blue on red like it can in the states.
I'm ok with that. The superman look is an eye sore. But, I doubt it's tipping back. Unless Americans all of a sudden want to spend more on their Honda or Acura products. Canada has in the past had different or limited color options, when it comes to Acura or Honda. Not always. But there have been other instances.
Old 06-17-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
Not really; same stuff seems to happen in the Mazda world. Back in 2009 I bought a new Mazda3, and similar to my 2001 Honda, I found the ONLY way to get heated exterior mirrors was to live north of the Canadian border; apparently New Hampshire doesn't get enough winter weather to justify heated mirrors; funny thing though, the first winter I had that Mazda we got over 100" of snow.
I can't say I have ever paid attention to Mazda Canada vs USA. Many companies actually tend to give us more cold weather options but in my previous post I was talking about total feature content. Heated mirrors is a funny feature to cut out on any car period but I was talking about more options and features than just one thing.

Originally Posted by TacoBello
I'm ok with that. The superman look is an eye sore. But, I doubt it's tipping back. Unless Americans all of a sudden want to spend more on their Honda or Acura products. Canada has in the past had different or limited color options, when it comes to Acura or Honda. Not always. But there have been other instances.
I don't really mind the superman look, but I agree it can be a bit much. Also I don't know man, the TLX now gets power fold mirrors and heated steering wheel in the states, the MDX now also gets power fold mirrors and surround view camera with real wood trim...etc. With this last facelift of every model Acura has been putting previously exclusive Canadian features in the US cars as well. So IMHO it is tipping back.
Old 06-17-2017, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello
Fuck that, I'll take the moonroof! Canada also got some other shit, like (I think) turn signal lights on the mirrors, and I dunno, a handful of other things. As oonowindow pointed out, Canada is fuck all of a market. I'm surprised Honda differentiates between Canada and the US.
Honda's sales and research data must be telling them there's something different between Canadian market vs US market. But yeah, you Canadians do get nicer features/specs/options than those in the US
Old 06-19-2017, 01:08 PM
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2018 accord sketch

https://www.yahoo.com/news/honda-releases-accord-concept-sketch-163640129.html
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:14 PM
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https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...ut-on-july-14/

sorry xedap....your link did not work so I have posted another
Old 06-19-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RDX10
Acura /Honda is like the ONLY company that favours the Canadian market when it comes to features and content. Like we had the white on black leather interior option for a long time before the U.S could and our 3G MDX had surround view camera and real wood trim among other things before they could even option it on the MDX. But it appears it's starting to tip in the other direction because our TLX A-Spec can't be had with red or blue on red like it can in the states.
But Canada you can have a 4cyl Aspec TLX, plus you can even have both 4cyl and V6 Aspec Elite trims, which is basically advance + aspec
Old 06-19-2017, 06:17 PM
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Something telling me this will be an evolutionary FMC nothing overly radical since the resize of current gen.
Old 06-19-2017, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HondaGuy347
NSX should've been a $120k car, even if that meant ditching the hybrid drivetrain. At $200k +/-, you're more expensive than most 911s and up against some serious competition like the McLaren 570S, R8 V10, etc. NSX should be a Carrera alternative, not $50k more expensive.
And even $120K is too high based on the fact the GTR out performs it. I waited and waited for the NSX to finally come out, but finally gave up and bought 911 Turbo S Cab. Couldn't be happier, car is worth every penny.



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