GrigioTL

Based on the pictures alone, the new TLX seems to lack the Wow! factor that is needed to challenge competitors like the Infiniti Q50, Cadillac ATS or Lexus IS. I intentionally don't mention the German offerings as competitors, as it would still have been a very tall order for the TLX to challenge the 3 series, C-class or A4 even if Acura exceeded expectations on the TLX.


The most concerning thing for me is Acura let the same Chief Engineer who led the development of the underperforming 4G TL to also lead the development of the TLX. As we all know, the TL went from one of the best selling entry luxury sedans to one of the worst with the introduction of the 4G.


Honda seems to be a company that rewards loyalty even if the team underperforms. Unlike other luxury brands (Cadillac, Infiniti) that have brought in new people to lead design and development after years of disappointing launches, Acura seems to have kept the same team in place that continues to preside over the brands' decline.


If I were in the market for a new entry luxury sedan, I would probably pick the Q50 or ATS over the TLX based on what I have seen so far. However, maybe Acura will prove me wrong when the vehicle arrives showrooms later this year. I will have to wait and see if the TLX looks better in person than in pictures.

weather

^^ While I agree 100% percent on the disappointment in the TLX, I have to make a few comments that will contradict your statement so please don't take it as a disrespect or criticism....

1. I think the 4G TL was not an under-performer. The styling is VERY controversial and its a love it or hate it, but very few will discredit its handling or performance. As you said, its not a RWD so we have to compare apples to apples.

2. Before adding the Q50 to your shopping list, please be aware of its serious problems!! I do like its styling and especially its interior. Had it not been for its serious bugs, I would have put this on my shopping list.

Otherwise, the rest I agree with you.

BEAR-AvHistory

^^^^^
He might mean underperforming in the marketplace losing 1/2 its sales with the change to the 4G

Treblig

It might be that Acura knows what it wants to do, it just hasn't quite figured out how to do it. The 5G is being panned for its "blandness" while the 4G was panned for its "boldness".

Tonyware

Maybe Acura wants to change the type of customers they want to attract (i.e. not us here - lol). I typed up a 2 page explaining all that and then thought "oh screw that, I just got a MM A123 to do tomorrow"

weather

Oh good point...never thought of it that way

George Knighton

I think I'd object to the premise.

The TLX, to me, seems clearly superior to the Q50 and IS.

Have you tried to fit an American frame into the rear of an IS? For that matter, have you tried to fit an American into the passenger side of an IS?

:-)

The Cadillac ATS is a very nice design, I admit. With both the ATS and CTS, Cadillac got at least good enough with specifications and technology that I'd consider them...if I could get over the possibility of a ten-year-plus long criminal conspiracy to defraud the people of the United States over a 2.00/ea ignition switch that is evidently killing people.

It's a little early to say the ATS or CTS will be more reliable than your typical Acura, too.

I dunno what you're looking for, but if we have to build a TLX based on the new Accord chassis, I think they did a hell of a job.

George Knighton

The 4G TL is one of the very best cars that Acura has ever had, and it is a great start for the American team.

It's unfortunate that its 2009 model year introduction came right on the heels of the 2008 economic collapse and Americans weren't willing to accept anything new and bold when they were too busy trying to keep their heads above water.

I recently gave up a 2010 TL 6-6 SH-AWD after 86,000 trouble free miles...and I don't baby cars. Never faltered, not a dime spent other than regular maintenance.

weather

^^^ ...and while some have had a hard time appreciating the looks of the 4G, many are now coming around and the MMC has helped in that respect. A friend of mine who disliked my TL when I got it is now telling me that he finds that this car was years ahead of its time.

When I tell him that I am shopping for a replacement car, he tells me that I am crazy and that I should keep it given its low mileage, amazing styling and the PRISTINE shape its in. I must say that the last week, I have had the chance to drive it after barely using using in the last couple of months and it IS a nice car indeed! Heads are turning everywhere I go, and what a gorgeous interior at night!!

I feel there is very little out there to get me really excited, especially in the TL's price point.

internalaudit

The 4G's looks did grow on me. Maybe 2012+ had a better front fascia? I don't dig the MPG numbers though so TLX it is when I'm able to save up for one.

02 Civic and 11 Accord doing fine but I want a car with SH-AWD so that I can save the wear and tear on my brake pads!

bigl27x

I When to the NY Auto show this weekend and the TLX did not wow me at all. The look was so bland and looked like a buick IMO. Being 4G owner i was looking forward for the TLX and sorry to say i probably wont be upgrading to a TLX. I might end up just keeping my 4G after my lease or go to an IS 350 F sport

Also the Acura Show booth was sooo empty... I feel Acura is not going in the right direction (with the exception of the MDX and RDX which look really good )

or maybe they just trying to attract an older audience which is understandable but not for me

internalaudit

I think you are right. Maybe they thought the older audience, which I may be part of (close to 40), will be more loyal and won't be wow'ed by competing offerings when they come on board a year or two down the road? It's probably cheaper to hold onto clienteles like George Knighton and myself (new to Acura besides the 94 Integra my dad gave me brand new) because we still believe in Acura products, though we understand Acura is not on the cutting edge. Why do I need unproven technology when my life is held captive inside an automobile though? I'd rather other drivers be the guinea pigs.

Good choice on the IS 350 F though. Didn't even realize it's still tight in the rear passenger area for the current model though we are not by any means humongous.

H_CAR

Can you blame Acura for going for so such a conservative approach considering what happened when they went bold in 2009?

The car doesn't really look much different than the prototype, and having scene it yesterday, I think it look great in person.

jbawden

Can we please stop referring to the 4G as bold? It was awkward looking and the subjective majority felt it was not attractive. As I said in another thread, if the TLX was on sale in 2009 it would have continued the sale trajectory depressed economy or not. No one here is panning "bold", in fact BOLD with Acura driving dynamics is sort of what we're all asking for. But with bold it must be attractive in the way Cadillac has done with the CTS over the 3 generations.

internalaudit

I think owners of the 4G have the right to describe their vehicles in whatever way the want though. Of course, non-owners can express whatever opinion they have but the opinions of owners weigh much more heavily, at least to me. Just my humble opinion of course.

jbawden

Of course we/they do, you're stating the obvious about all forums. My point is boldness and the economy do not explain sales dropping off a cliff. Suggesting that it's a design that didn't resonate with the market as a whole is not a cut on the folks that did find it appealing. Time will tell if the TLX is the car that gets Acura back on target but if this board is any indication it's going to be slog until a type S comes out or a refresh in 2-4 years.

H_CAR

Provided Acura prices the TLX well it'll sell fine.

Back in 2007-2008 the regular TL still outsold the TL Type S by a lot so it won't make a difference. Overall, outside of Azine, the reactions to this car have been mostly positive.

boe_d

It's a sad thing for me to say but I think they need to poach the designers from Kia who've significantly improved the old KIA designs.

BEAR-AvHistory

KIA poached him from Audi

Devil Dog 21

I agree completely.

Admittedly I loved the 4G even before the MMC and bought my 2010 used in 2011. Early on I had a few people say that Acura hit the TL with the ugly stick and a few tell me it was a sharp car that looks a little futuristic. My father in law wasn't a fan of the TL but just picked up a 13 for his wife and now understands exactly what I've been saying about how great the car actually is.

I'm reserving judgement on the TLX until I can drive one and see it for myself.

Goosew

iTrader: (1)

I disagree with this statement. Owners in of themselves will have an inherent bias in their own cars.

I actually take the opinions of non-owners more heavily. I find them to be more critical (maybe a bit more 'honest'), than owners.

jbawden

I've already owned a "you have to drive it to appreciate it" car ('04 GTO). Like Acura, Holden makes a fantastic car but the GTO was way behind the styling language of the era but I wanted an affordable rear drive v8 coupe REALLY bad:-). I've never felt inclined to say anything bad about Acura in terms of driving refinement and daily driving performance, its among the best in class.

internalaudit

Not a problem at all.

Non-owners took a test drive for ten to twenty minutes.

I think you will agree that the best source of information would be previous owners who moved to another brand, many of which are still active here on Acurazine.

Nari

You might laugh like a hyena at this but imo this is the best that Acura has ever been run. People forget that they used to take an Isuzu Trooper and put an Acura badge on it. I remember when they produced the same old integra with the quad headlights for 8 or 9 years in a row - this was supposedly back in their salad days. Remember when they produced the NSX, practically unchanged, for like 14 or 15 years - and that NSX was a Honda in the rest of the world.

Acura was genius when they had little competition in the late 80's but when Lexus and Infiniti showed up they went into a funk and have been there up until today. Yes the cars were much better than the American alternatives but the tables have really turned from that paradigm.

One thing is for certain and that is that the controlling board of Acura has never really seemed that engaged to the 'luxury' market or to quickly creating compelling luxury cars and staying ahead of the market the way the Germans are doing now.

The best news that has come out recently is that Acura is being spun off into its own brand separate from Honda. That might not seem like such a big deal but it's very important in terms of Acura finding its own substance and identity.

KeithL

So I think Acura has learned from its mistakes, but I also think Acura still has a lack of vision. Some will say only Acura knows what they intend to do and if they are meeting those objectives. Regardless it is fairly evident Acura does NOT have aspirations of being a Top tier luxury brand or competing with them. Sure they appear happy taking some sales from them for people that are looking for a value based luxury alternative that is very reliable. They also seem happy going after the Honda type buyer that is looking for something more luxurious p, but again looking for a value. They clearly are not targeting the sporty buyer or anyone looking to drive a car that makes a statement. I am a huge Acura fan and hope to come back some day. I do worry that withe Hyundai and Kia coming up from behind and Acura apparently not serious about the top tier players that they will be squeezed into what I like the call the Subaru position. Again only Acura knows what their goals are and vision is and whether they are on track, but just looking at the market one has to question what they are really trying to do.

George Knighton

Considering Buick and Cadillac sales, maybe that's not a bad thing.

mynameisjacob

Damn... I must have a sick and twisted sense of style because I loved the '09-'11 TL's styling which led me to specifically seek after it. I was alittle iffy on the front beak but I absolutely adored the rear styling... especially with the quad exhaust tips (fake or not). Funny thing, although I get some jeers from car guys about the styling... all the girls seem to love it (so far). Especially those in fashion, jewelry, art and design professions... they all thought the car looked fantastic. Go figure.

Love it or hate it, back in 2008 the 4G TL was NOTICED on the road. Whether you said "WOAH?" or "DA FCK?"... it caught your eye and you noticed it. I've said it when I purchased my used '10 SH-AWD and I'll say it again... this car will age well. With designs from all manufacturers becoming more and more overstated and in-your-face (Lexus, Nissan, etc)... I'm betting that "the beak" and the rear space ship/concord design won't look as extravagant and hopefully look "current" for years to come.

internalaudit

4G's rear look slick. Not sure if losing the horizontal chrome near the trunk tip would make it look better though.

TL14

Couldn't agree with you more. I love the 12+ TLs. Very clean lines but also aggressive looking.

Treblig

Ditto!

Although I find myself liking the TLX and it's potential, it would be hard to part with my '12 TL. Decisions, decisions.... But then, I won't have to make that decision until the 2016 model is released. So another year+ to enjoy the TL!!!

Bo_Darville

this.

let's wait and see what it weighs, how many G's it can pull in a turn, how long it takes the 9AT to realize the gas pedal is kissing the floorboard, how the steering wheel & front tires react when it does, how many nannies are built into the touch screen & nav, the quality of the cabin, the quality of the paint, how it fares with IIHS & NHTSA safety ratings and EPA ratings, and last but not least, how it is priced.

and for those of you that whine of such things, whether it's doors make a solid sounding 'thunk' upon being shut.

until then your rants or praises are being speculative.