LMK5

My MY2014 BMW 3-series lease is up in 3 months and I'm out looking for replacements. I'm more interested in the TLX i4 but will also try a V6. Yes, I know the BMW is more powerful and has a nicer interior, but believe it or not I'm sure the TLX will equal or beat it in: seat comfort; audio performance; AC performance; ride comfort; road noise; lower acquisition and maintenance costs. But I also know that this car has, at the very least, not garnered a lot of praise in the automotive press, so I'd like to know what specific things I should look out for in the test drive.

For those of you who are very familiar with the base 3-series, I'd really be interested in knowing what I might gain from a TLX and what I'd lose.

mapleloaf

To be honest, I would not go with too many pre-conceived notions based on the biases of others, negative or positive. Drive both extensively, be observant, try different driving situations, but drive the way you normally do. Ultimately, most will chose based upon what's important to them and, usually, the best value for their budget.

wlkeel

What mapleloaf said

Saintor

Ex-E46 and E90 owner here. I passed the F30 and am very happy with my 2016 TLX, for 15 months. My life is now far less complicated without the BMW non-sense (at least long term).

In your list, the only "pitfalls" are the seat comfort and audio performance. Audio performance will be ok in the Tech version but in the base version, it is not good. Seat comfort is generally better in the BMW.

As for the test drive, if you expect something '"dynamic', put it in Sport+ (not Sport). The three other modes (Eco, Normal and Sport) have to deal with an infuriating throttle response, as bad as my E90 had. But at least in Sport+ it is ok.

rocket_pup

Being a former BMW owner myself, here are my thoughts: Maintenance is cheap compared to BMW. Even if you find a good independent. (BMW parts are obviously more expensive.) As far as comfort, BMW are more supportive, but TLX seat are more comfortable. Also, Germans don't quite have AC figured out. I always felt a little warm in my 3 series, but Honda's AC spools up quite nicely. (If you want to be in a meat locker, nothing beats American car AC though.) Lastly, you don't usually find yourself at the dealership too often for warranty issues. I little nicknacks failing all the time in my BMW for the first 3 years. The only reason I put up with it because it was fun to drive. If you don't like going to the dealership, Acura is the better way to go.

shazi00

You are in the same boat I was 8 months ago. I have a 2014 328i RWD with sport, lighting package, navigation, moonroof and heated seats which I ended up buying after the lease.
I had always wanted a TL/TLX and was contemplating even back in 2013 when I was getting the bimmer. Anyways this time I pulled the trigger and got a i4 TLX with Tech, White exterior and Espresso interior. For the first 6 months, I didn't like it as I kept comparing to the bimmer but it has started to grow on me.

Here is my experience comparing both the configurations:

Pros
-TLX is a bigger car. More interior and trunk space
-Nicer quality interior. The seats and headrest are so much more comfortable
-ELS Sound System is very good and of course on par with the stock 328i
-I like the looks of this car as well as the bimmer
-Standard LED Headlights
-Drives pretty good on Sport & Sport + Mode and 8 Speed DCT with Paddle Shifters
-A Lot less road noise compared to the 328i due to ANC
-My top requirement for getting the TLX was Remote Start since I live in cold weather
-Shows all 4 tire pressure and has tire fill assist system
-Blind Spot Monitoring

Cons
-Backup Camera looks crap compared to the bimmer but it does have rear pass by detection
-Side mirrors are not auto-dimming and do not power fold (TLX Elite folds)
-Navigation system is sore to the eyes to look at. The graphics look like they're from the early 90s. Overall a very slow system.
-Trunk does not open all the way like the Bimmer's so you have to push it with your end for the rest of the way
-The center stack that shows mpg, trip, compass etc seems like it's made for people with vision problems. There is only one piece of information per page.
-Door does not lock if you have the car started and if they key is in your pocket and far away from the car either
-Bimmer had three 12V Outlets. This car only has 2 and none for the back seat.
-No cupholders in the door for rear passengers
-I get about 24 - 26 mpg on the car with mix driving and 91 octane. I was putting 89 in the bimmer and never fell below 29mpg. Mpg seems to be getting better in sport mode compared to comfort.

Anyways I am now getting used to the car and liking the drive specially the reduced road noise. The car has been in Sport Mode for the past 2 months and I feel the power is adequate. For $10k less, I feel it's a pretty good car but now Accord has more features than the TLX but once again doesn't drive like a BMW but does the job for the $$$

LMK5

Thanks for all the replies. After reading lots of posts in this forum, it seems that just about no one is really jazzed about their TLX. Many have just learned to accept it. That's a shame. I had a 1991 Acura Integra LS Special with 5 speed MT that was the best car I ever had. Fun to drive, tons of cargo room, and bulletproof. I guess those says are long gone.

But anyway, I'll look at the TLX tomorrow at the dealer. Funny, he sent me an email saying I could have a TLX i4 with Tech for 29k and change. That's quite a starting point for negotiations.

Truth is, I don't find the 328i fun to drive except in a straight line. The drivetrain is great but that's where the greatness ends with the car. I drove my kid's 2008 Honda Fit this weekend and would you believe that it's more fun in the corners than the BMW? What a wakeup call. I also find some of the idiosyncrasies annoying, like the dumb lock/unlock toggle on the dash, the zero tint on the windows, the lack of options to do simple things like open the locks when in park, etc.

'm a little alarmed that the ELS system may only be equal to the base audio in the BMW. Is this true? I thought the ELS system is supposed to be one of the best and is a prime reason for me looking at a TLX.

shazi00

Wow thats a good starting deal for i4 Tech. The MMC will be coming out soon anyways so guess everyone is getting ready to clear their inventory.

As for the ELS...it sounds much better than the BMW base system at the cost of lower bass. It sounds phenomenal when the car is in accessory mode but once you start the engine, Active Noise Cancellation kicks in which is basically Low Frequency pumping through the speaker so while driving the bass isn't as punchy but I like it. Mids and Highs are great.

rocket_pup

As far as the ELS audio quality, it's very good compared to a run of the mill audio system. I would say it's on par with the standard Harmon Kardon of BMW. You'll have to listen for yourself though.

FYI, you'd be surprised that most OEM car audio speakers still use paper cones, even some "premium" systems.

LMK5

Oh I believe it. They save money anywhere they can, especially in places they don't think the customer can notice.

When you say it's on par with the standard HK system, do you mean the base BMW system (presumably HK) or the upgraded Harmon Kardon surround sound audio?

Saintor

Same initial impressions here. I wasn't sure in the 2-3 first months and was thinking to my new MX-3 GS V6 1992 resold within 13 month. Not this time; it turned out very well. There are many minor accessories not available on BMW AFAIK that I would have trouble to let go.

- sunglasses location above the rear visor (like most Honda)
- button on the door handle, didn't touch it the first 6 months... now I use it every day (it is just a door lock)
- tire pressure live (with actual readout).
- real tires (not RFT, I swapped them on my E90 though), room to put a spare (you have to remove the foam insert).
- a 6--cyl. (without breaking the bank)
- remote starter + block heater
- avalanche of standard goodies

pnoi521

I'd say the ELS system in my TLX is far better than the "upgraded" Harmon Kardon in my dad's 2015 535. People complain about the lack of bass in the ELS system, but it has much more bass than the HK. To me, the best thing about the ELS system is its ability to still be clear even when turned all the way up. There's always a certain volume level in BMWs where the bass starts to get distorted.

I disconnected the ANC module in my car so that may be why I'm having a better experience with my ELS than the others on this forum.

E90 Skye

speaking from experience (previously owned an e90 for 9yrs, a TLX 2.4 tech for 1.5yrs, have rented for 2 weeks a f30 328i with sport/premium, and also still own an old e36 m3) the F30 and the TLX are very different cars dynamically but I never felt the F30 was absolutely worth it's cost of entry (at least for purchase, lease specials are another thing)

My E90 330i actually gave me very few problems as I bought it new and maintained it extremely well for the 9 years I owned it, but yes servicing a german luxury brand will be more expensive than servicing an Acura, that being said Acura service costs aren't as cheap as ppl think, I was keeping track of my services for 1.5yrs of ownership of my TLX and have been thoroughly keeping track of my 2013 MDX service costs and it wasn't much less than the regular service costs associated with my BMW. Now reliability is typically better with Acura for sure, and you get a lot more tech/safety/features for your money.

Driving Dynamics: The F30 wins this, it's rear drive, has ample power in any of it's engine configs (maybe not in that 320i... but haven't driven that), has a pretty tight balanced chassis, and if you live in a place with a lot of windy roads and you like that sort of spirited driving then you'll miss that in the TLX unless you go for an SH-AWD model which has a fantastic AWD system.

Seat Comfort: purely subjective, some ppl like the "comfort" of having a very nicely bolstered seat, with lower back and hip support, not necessarily softer/cushier seats (which is why I like most BMW sport seats, and love the seats in my GTI). But if you like softer leather with comfortable seat cushions the TLX seats are comfortable in that respect for sure. They are also wider in both the hip and back/shoulders.

Audio Performance: if you get a tech pack TLX or better then you'll enjoy the ELS sound system, while it's not as customizable as some other optional audio systems in luxury cars it is definitely tuned well, and performs well. Performs especially well b/c of how quiet the car is. However BMW HK/BO upgraded systems are on a higher level audio fidelity wise, but you have to be really nit picky to really hear the difference with most music (especially if it's streaming from a phone etc), and for a lot of ppl it's not worth paying 2-4k just for a better sound system. ELS sound in Acura's is a real bargain since they package it with all the tech/nav/safety features. I think ELS is better than base audio in the F30 (as my friend has one with base audio and it's kinda meh)

Other Comfort: A/C and road noise are top notch in the TLX. very quiet car, Lexus-like. A/C is plenty powerful. As far as ride comfort goes, that depends on what you value most. If you're talking about how it goes over bumps then yeah the TLX is more comfortable in that you feel less of an impact, it definitely floats more, and isn't as stiff. The F30 by no means feels uncomfortable to me though, but it does have a tighter suspension, offers better turn in and handling, but hey ride/handling is a give and take. On smooth roads without imperfections you won't notice much of a difference between the two cars. BUT if you hit potholes/road imperfections you'll notice the difference in favor of the TLX, just as you'll notice a difference on quick transitions/windy roads/sharper turns going in favor of the F30.

Interior trim quality etc is about the same I think... I remember not being too impressed by the F30 interior quality (plastics and fit and finish). I felt it was a downgrade from my E90. A tech/advance/elite TLX will feel very nicely equipped inside.

my gripes with the TLX
-not as dynamically fun to drive
-outdated infotainment interface
-use of space is meh (no door pockets in rear)
-hate the base wheels on the 2.4 (v6 wheels are decent! and is minor gripe as wheels are easily changed)

but enjoyed with the TLX
-extremely quiet
-great highway cruiser
-features for $
-LED headlights standard

I would check out what a lease runs on a new A4 though. Those are pretty freaking nice. Tho probably won't have some features in base trim the TLX has and to get more options it's gonna cost you a lot more.

Saintor

I don't think that AWD has anything to do with driving dynamic.

Although overall very stable, I can detect some floatness when something sudden happens.

IMO, it can be related to the 225/50 tire profile...a bit high, I am sure that there would be improvement with 225/45 as on F30 with 18".

E90 Skye

Sorry but can't agree with that, try mid corner throttle on/off in front wheel drive vs SHAWD and you'll see a big difference, the SHAWD will hunker down a bit and pivot you around the turn as it sends power to the outside wheels especially the rear outside will help keep it stable as it pivots/powers out of a corner. I can even feel this occuring in my SHAWD MDX at low speed. Front wheel drive TLX will just understeer if you do mid corner throttle on.

Saintor

C&D made those tests a while ago comparing Audi FWD and Quattro. In such a context, they observed that the additional mass was more of a detriment and in practice, that theory didn't hold up to expectations. Ultimately Audi kinda agreed too.

pyrodan007

I think Audi fixed that on the new 2018 S4. For 'only' 2k more, you can get an upgraded Quattro system that works like SH-AWD where it'll do rear torque vectoring. It really should be standard on all models, but that's just my opinion. Acura does the same with the RDX where the SH is subtracted ...

E90 Skye

never mentioned quattro, I said specifically acura's SHAWD system vs front wheel drive applications on the same car.

pyrodan007

I never mentioned Acura, my response was to Saintor for Quattro only (new vs old). As for Acura, major difference between FWD and SH-AWD. I had both (though on different cars TL/TLX) and you really feel it.

E90 Skye

I know I was replying to Saintors claim that AWD doesn't make a difference in vehicle dynamics.

JM2010 SH-AWD

A lot (most?) of the Quattro Audis lacked the torque vectoring capability of SH AWD, which not only transfers power to the rear wheels (and particularly the outside rear wheel) but also over-drives the outside rear wheel about 1.7% faster. That means you can get on the gas, the car hunkers down, and pivots you right out of the turn. Truly magical stuff.

Read the Automobile comparison from a few years ago where they tested the TL SH-AWD with the Audi S4. The Acura was faster in every turn on the track and was within a few tenths of the S4 on the high-speed track despite being down over 30 HP to the Audi. The difference was all in the turns.

F23A4

Not that I would recommend it but my MDX SH-AWD is far better in corners while under throttle than my TLX PAWS. That said, I love my TLX V6. The main thing I would recommend to prospective buyers is to get the SH-AWD if opting for the V6. While my FWD has fantastic mid-range acceleration, standing start acceleration definitely requires lite throttle application or the wheels will spin.

Saintor

My money is still on a FWD (even 300HP) preferably with a mechanical LSD. AWD is grossly overrated.

kurtatx

All the garbage transmission, none of the handling.

Go I4 or go SH-AWD

Saintor

When I think garbage, I think more Audi than Acura. Has been there, done that.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Friendly warning to all - the model specific subforums on AZ are designed for civil discussion - if anyone wants to be a bit more aggressive I suggest a visit to the Car Talk subforum: - Car Talk - AcuraZine - Acura Enthusiast Community

Otherwise please stay on topic and treat your fellow posters with the same respect you would if you were sitting across the table from them.

E90 Skye

Not starting a fight, actually curious. If you think AWD is grossly overrated and just adds weight, why did you opt for a SH-AWD TLX? You could have saved some money and gone with FWD right?

Saintor

Short answer; the 2016+ TLX V6 is AWD only in Canada. So are the BMW 320i/328i BTW, no more RWD and manual, thanks to low sales.

E90 Skye

Oh gotchya, did not know that.

reddogTL

This.

320 is utter crap and should have never been made.
328 is only good if you can get the sport package with active dampers and 20+ way sport seats.
Outside of that I wouldn't touch the 3 series unless it's at least the 335.
TLX V6 and 328(up until 2016 MY) were about the same 0-60. Newer 328 are lower-mid 5s now.
I seriously considered the 3 before buying my TLX and test drove both the 328 and 335. I couldn't muster getting the 328 over the TLX with all the sacrifices in features. 335 was my only option as the better overall vehicle but couldn't find one in time in the color/feature combo i wanted

reddogTL

Ive experienced this sensation you're describing. It doesn't happen often as long as you stay in throttle mid corner to exit but if you full throttle mid corner and suddenly let off the gas you feel that floatyness. I think it's also in part of the TLX being more nose heavy and that sudden weight shift throws the balance off for a split second or so.

Edit: also the god awful Goodyear Eagle LS tires that came with car without a doubt I think play into this.

9SpeedTran

Tires on the TLX suck. If you are used to BMW handling, you will need to replace the tires right away -- I had Pilot Sport AS/3 put on before I drove it out of the showroom. With those tires on there, it grips the road unbelievably. If you drive the V6, drive the SH-AWD, and remember - for SH-AWD to work, you need to be accelerating, so brake before curves and then power through them. The effect is dramatic.

ZipSpeed

I love that torque vectoring. The sensation as you feel the vehicle rotate through the curve never gets old!

F23A4

Tires suck on the 2.4 and SH-AWD models; they're just mediocre on the V6 FWD. 😕

chris2k5

Interesting the OP mentions lower maintenance cost with a TLX...

Since it's a lease the BMW comes with maintenance already and Acura doesn't.

rocket_pup

Since BMW has decreased it's compllimentary maintenance by 1 year and removed brake pads/rotors, they aren't too far off. Oil changes are cheap, and a little more if you use fully synthetic.

Here's generic break down in vehicle costs from 2012: Cost of Vehicle Ownership - Consumer Reports

rocket_pup

The Bridgestone Potenza (V6 FWD) were not good for other than Sunday driving. They squeaked every chance they could get, the side walls were soft, and off the line traction was horrible. I can only imagine how the Eagle LS was other than a worse tire.

Many have upgraded their tires to Michelin or Continentals. I run Continental ExtremeContact DWS S06, and they are very good for the price, performance, and handling for the TLX. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 may be better, but they're more expensive.

LMK5

Well, finally took the test drive. Drove an i4 and a V6 FWD. You know how it is with test drives--can't tell with everything but you get an impression. Here's my take on the i4 with tech:

Pros
1) Quiet and smooth ride
2) Comfortable seat
3) ELS audio quite good
4) Aggressively priced (28.9k with no negotiation)
5) Lots of features
6) Reasonable acceleration

Cons
1) Some float in the suspension
2) Cabin doesn't feel very upmarket
3) Instrument cluster is legible, but uninteresting.
3) Navigation maps and infotainment in general appears slow/dated. When changing audio sources, the source menu appeared quite dim.

Questions
1) I only listened to the ELS via USB audio when the car was at idle, and I iked it. If I listen to it while driving, will the ANC change the character of the sound noticeably?
2) Problems with jerky transmissions (rough shifting) in these cars appears to be common from all the posts on the Net. Does anybody here know whether the issues in the 8AT have been largely resolved for MY2017? Any way to truly tell during a test drive?

E90 Skye

at this point if you're planning on buying new I would wait for the 2018 as the nav/infotainment is worth the wait and potentially not getting as great of a mark down off sticker. Apple Carplay/Android Auto is definitely worth it, so much faster/more responsive than what my 15 TLX had.
(I actually liked how clean and simple the instrumentation was in the TLX, but yeah not as wow factor I guess)

as far as your questions:
1) ELS audio is great, active noise cancellation never made a noticeable difference in audio quality. It's not the best premium system out there, but unless you're very picky about audiophile level quality I think you'll be very happy with it.
2) Jerky transmission issues were mostly for 2015 V6 models with the 9speed ZF. The 8 speed DCT in the 4 cylinder doesn't have a jerky problem per se, but being a DCT it is inherently not as smooth at low speeds as a traditional torque vectoring automatic. It's just one of the inherent characteristics of dual clutch transmissions, but the TLX DCT is one of the smoother ones I've driven, and you'll love how quick it shifts in hard acceleration especially in sport/sport+. No lag in shifts, and gets you into gears very quickly. (for example I know some friends that were coming from Camry's/Accords with traditional automatics and thought the TLX 2.4 was kinda jerky at low speeds and I would tell them it's just a trade off for having super fast shifting capability of a DCT.

Good luck to you! My recommendation would be to wait if the infotainment/nav performance bothered you on a test drive, it's something you use daily, so it'll only be magnified over your months/years of ownership.

LMK5

Have you tried out the 2018 infotainment system? I heard it's supposed to be 30% faster.

It's always difficult to decide whether to go with the present model at a discount or the new one with improvements but at a better price.