Is everyone ready for the Type S Concept? (Reveal Pics Page 5)
05-25-2020, 02:29 PM
#1561
Burning Brakes
The same thing can be said for pano sunroofs. Design it from the beginning and engineers can easily do the structural modifications as components are being integrated. Add it after, and not only does the engineering have to be redone, but the entire crash testing as well. In the end, not much is being saved by not adding it early if the tech is available.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 05-25-2020 at 02:35 PM.
05-25-2020, 03:08 PM
#1562
AZ Community Team
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That's because many of them were not full LCD screens. Look at the current RDX, still looks cheap on a luxury car. Not saying Audi has the best layout, but they did their homework and it still looks modern years after it was released. That's how it starts, I don't care for this now .... and then the model gets old. Do it from the beginning, and you'll have less to update as the model ages. Same goes for hp, get a decent portion now and add a few every couple of years.
I know some people value an analog clock in the car. They believe without one, it looks cheap.I don't think that way and it doesn't mean they are wrong and i am right. It's 100% personal preference.
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05-25-2020, 07:41 PM
#1563
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I'm not sure why you doubt it would happen. When is acura going to use the Precision cockpit? All the German competitors are using the some sort of digital gauges and implementing new technology. I'm sure Lexus is moving towards that in the next model. Acura announced it 4 years ago saying we would see it up and down the model lineup. I think it would be a huge mistake if they didn't put it in the tier models of the TLX. Why wait for another model year? People want that new technology to wow them into buying a car. As we have seen if the last year's model, the exterior can be great, but the interior held it back. If Acura is fully in on Precision crafted performance that shouldn't only mean drivetrain. It should be the whole package. Cheaping out in small ways like the gauge cluster wouldn't be the only they cheaped out in if they were cost cutting...
FWIW bought a set of electrically driven analogs with real needles etc, cost me $900.
Tricky part is at night all the white parts radiate electric blue & the needles are red.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-25-2020 at 07:43 PM.
05-26-2020, 12:37 AM
#1564
Three Wheelin'
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That's because many of them were not full LCD screens. Look at the current RDX, still looks cheap on a luxury car. Not saying Audi has the best layout, but they did their homework and it still looks modern years after it was released. That's how it starts, I don't care for this now .... and then the model gets old. Do it from the beginning, and you'll have less to update as the model ages. Same goes for hp, get a decent portion now and add a few every couple of years.
05-26-2020, 12:38 AM
#1565
06 TL 6MT + 18 ATS-V 8AT
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The RDX gauges are actually pretty nice for an analog setup, but there needs to be a full-digital option to even be considered competitive for a 2021 luxury car. Personally I'd probably get it even if the analog ones looked decent, to avoid the car feeling old years later when most competitors and even mainstream cars start offering it as standard. Pretty sure the same debate was made about navi in the 3G's back then, nobody really needed them but it looked nicer and added value to the car later on.
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internalaudit (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 10:04 AM
#1567
05-26-2020, 10:10 AM
#1568
Don't think this will be offered with a manual transmission at all. Regardless, a return to Honda's '90s roots in any way is welcome. Between the S2000 discontinuation and the 2G NSX, I never thought we would see double wishbones on any Honda again. Now they're gonna be on two different models!
05-26-2020, 10:34 AM
#1569
I think people get too wrapped up in power. I’d rather have a good suspension setup vs power as a good balance of power and a good suspension setup is the key here. Power is nothing without control. I do know that Acura was aiming for top of class handling and that power should be competitive,
Last edited by SuperHandlingTL; 05-26-2020 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Adding more text
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05-26-2020, 10:40 AM
#1570
I think people get too wrapped up in power. I’d rather have a good suspension setup vs power as a good balance of power and a good suspension setup is the key here. Power is nothing without control. I do know that Acura was aiming for top of class handling and that power should be competitive,
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05-26-2020, 10:45 AM
#1571
Here's the rub: I think most buyers in this segment wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a DWB and MacPherson front setup, but can tell the difference between less power and more power. Frankly, this needs to be a sales success; otherwise the chances of Honda/Acura continuing to invest in high-performance cars becomes bleaker.
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05-26-2020, 10:51 AM
#1572
Instructor
I completely agree with this. I'll tell you why. Last year I went to go test drive the TLX for the first time. The sales representative was with me and he told me to send it full throttle on the highway on ramp, something I never felt comfortable doing before. I was more surprised by the fact that the car was able to take a turn like that with that much acceleration without any slip. This DWB is going to change that experience for sure.
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internalaudit (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 11:15 AM
#1573
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That's the issue guys! I heard so many people saying that Acura must bring back the double wisbone. Not just Acura but any brand cannot please the entire world. It's a give and take.
Also, we cannot expect to get NSX at the price of Honda Accord
Also, we cannot expect to get NSX at the price of Honda Accord
05-26-2020, 11:22 AM
#1574
I completely agree with this. I'll tell you why. Last year I went to go test drive the TLX for the first time. The sales representative was with me and he told me to send it full throttle on the highway on ramp, something I never felt comfortable doing before. I was more surprised by the fact that the car was able to take a turn like that with that much acceleration without any slip. This DWB is going to change that experience for sure.
”But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second. Although the two all-wheel-drive systems are different in design, they both strive to accomplish the same thing: temporarily routing extra power to the outside rear wheel to help rotate the car in a turn. The big difference here is how these two cars are set up to handle to begin with.
The Acura is blessed with nearly perfect cornering balance, so its rear differential can easily and dramatically alter the car's handling attitude. It takes a little while to build up trust in the system, but you soon realize that if the car can handle any amount of power in the middle of a turn, it can handle anything the V-6 can throw at it. There's no reason to be scared of the right pedal-the TL begs you to steer it with the throttle. The more power you add, the more neutral the TL's cornering balance and the faster it scrambles through turns. Indeed, the Acura was faster than the Audi through nearly every single corner at BeaveRun.
The Audi's all-wheel-drive system is crippled by so much understeer built into the chassis that, at very best, it will help the car approach neutrality. You can feel the computer shuffling power around, but it's slower to react than the Acura's system, so it takes patience and smoothness to get there. Add too much power or turn in too quickly and you're back to drowning in a pool of understeer. The S4 is far less bothered by midcorner bumps or puddles than the TL, but its cornering balance changes dramatically at very high speeds, when it transitions to oversteer. That's a surprise that no one likes.“
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...-2010-audi-s4/
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05-26-2020, 11:46 AM
#1575
I completely agree with this. I'll tell you why. Last year I went to go test drive the TLX for the first time. The sales representative was with me and he told me to send it full throttle on the highway on ramp, something I never felt comfortable doing before. I was more surprised by the fact that the car was able to take a turn like that with that much acceleration without any slip. This DWB is going to change that experience for sure.
The limits for these cars are already so high that unless you're on a track or doing some serious canyon carving, you'll be hard pressed to get to the limit. The DWB just pushes that limit even higher, but in the real world I can't imagine it would be that noticeable (and yes, I've owned cars with DWBs before).
Last edited by fiatlux; 05-26-2020 at 11:49 AM.
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internalaudit (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020, 12:04 PM
#1576
While the SHAWD system is legit, I hate to break it to you but you could have probably done the same thing on quite a few other cars in the same class. Motortrend tested the regular A4 Quattro and found that it was able to hold the same G's on the skidpad as the TLX SHAWD (0.92g) and actually completed the figure-8 half a second faster. Even the RWD 330i pulled 0.95g on the skidpad and also finished the figure-8 faster.
The limits for these cars are already so high that unless you're on a track or doing some serious canyon carving, you'll be hard pressed to get to the limit. The DWB just pushes that limit even higher, but in the real world I can't imagine it would be that noticeable (and yes, I've owned cars with DWBs before).
The limits for these cars are already so high that unless you're on a track or doing some serious canyon carving, you'll be hard pressed to get to the limit. The DWB just pushes that limit even higher, but in the real world I can't imagine it would be that noticeable (and yes, I've owned cars with DWBs before).
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05-26-2020, 12:25 PM
#1577
The current TLX had many compromises in design and performance. Given it was even mentionable in regards to handling to any German competitor is a compliment. With the next car, those compromises have been met with more engineering, much better product execution and a much higher budget which is why this car will offer features, quality and performance vs any Acura sedan before it by good measure.
Maybe I'm jaded by the strange choices Acura has taken in the past with product development. For instance, did they need to give the FWD version P-AWS? I honestly cannot tell the difference it makes, and would much rather that money have been spent on something tangibly usable like a power adjustable steering wheel or a better infotainment system (though given how that turned out in the RDX, I should probably be careful what I wish for). Hell, even sensors for the rear door handles (yes, I'm still salty about that) would have been nicer than a gimmick with questionable utility.
05-26-2020, 12:26 PM
#1578
Instructor
fiatlux, I definitely expect other cars to do the same as well, the Germans, even the other Japanese brands, not saying TLX is the only one, but what stands out is the all around package the TLX offered with that price point. With that said, this next one given all the time and money spent on R&D will probably be priced higher than the current but... will still offer a great all around package for features compared with the other brands because they somehow know how to find the right balance for features among their trim levels.
05-26-2020, 01:38 PM
#1579
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Before everybody gets all bent out of shape on struts vs DWB Porsche models like Porsche 911 GT3 and Cayman GT4 which allegedly handle pretty well us a strut type front suspension.
A lot depends of how they are packaged during their development.
A lot depends of how they are packaged during their development.
05-26-2020, 01:39 PM
#1580
I have no doubt it will be better, but will it be good enough compared to the competitors? That's still to be seen. You mention a higher budget; that's great, but that also translates into a higher price to offset the development cost. We'll have to wait and see what the sales figures look like once these things hit the showroom floor.
Maybe I'm jaded by the strange choices Acura has taken in the past with product development. For instance, did they need to give the FWD version P-AWS? I honestly cannot tell the difference it makes, and would much rather that money have been spent on something tangibly usable like a power adjustable steering wheel or a better infotainment system (though given how that turned out in the RDX, I should probably be careful what I wish for). Hell, even sensors for the rear door handles (yes, I'm still salty about that) would have been nicer than a gimmick with questionable utility.
Maybe I'm jaded by the strange choices Acura has taken in the past with product development. For instance, did they need to give the FWD version P-AWS? I honestly cannot tell the difference it makes, and would much rather that money have been spent on something tangibly usable like a power adjustable steering wheel or a better infotainment system (though given how that turned out in the RDX, I should probably be careful what I wish for). Hell, even sensors for the rear door handles (yes, I'm still salty about that) would have been nicer than a gimmick with questionable utility.
the pricing structure will shift upwards because 1.) the TLX line will move up a tier in its segment. Currently, we have the base 2.4 which competed with the 180hp BMW 320i and the 190hp FWD Audi A4. The current V6 TLX competed with the likes of the 248hp A4 Quattro, the 255hp BMW 330i and the 255hp Mercedes C300. The next gen has no 2.4 variant. The TLX 2.0t will replace the current TLX V6 while the Type-S will be added on the top end. I expect a base price of $37-38k for a base 2.0t TLX with a loaded Type-S being in the high $50’s which puts it in a good position overall while still retaining a good amount of value.
2.) The price will increase will come from the fact that it not on its own platform, the all new tech/features that have never been available on any Acura product before it. All new and/or upgraded drivetrains, better material quality, etc etc.
3.) The car needed to push upmarket like the entire lineup needs to. The next gen MDX will further push as it’ll get features like air suspension, massaging seats etc etc.
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05-26-2020, 01:53 PM
#1584
Those gauges look exactly like the ones in the RDX A-Spec. Guess there's no digital cockpit.
I do like the new rear end of the base model; reminds me of the C-Class.
I do like the new rear end of the base model; reminds me of the C-Class.
05-26-2020, 02:11 PM
#1587
05-26-2020, 02:14 PM
#1590
Advanced
05-26-2020, 02:15 PM
#1591
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05-26-2020, 02:18 PM
#1592
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05-26-2020, 02:24 PM
#1595
tehLEGOman
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That red one is sexy.
I'm going to guess 20, mayyybe 21x10 295/30 tires on that.
I'm going to guess 20, mayyybe 21x10 295/30 tires on that.
05-26-2020, 02:36 PM
#1596
Instructor
I love it... just want to see Digital Gauge clusters in the higher trims. Hopefully that comes true. Not sure if brembos are offered in A-Spec? I feel like those are for the Type S.
05-26-2020, 02:40 PM
#1597
Racer
Here's the rub: I think most buyers in this segment wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a DWB and MacPherson front setup, but can tell the difference between less power and more power. Frankly, this needs to be a sales success; otherwise the chances of Honda/Acura continuing to invest in high-performance cars becomes bleaker.
https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...ont-suspension
The new TLX’s front suspension uses two wishbone-shaped control arms, in place of the more common Macpherson strut setup in many competing sport sedans, to deliver more precise control of wheel camber, caster and toe angles, and to maximize tire-to-ground contact for exceptional handling precision and cornering grip. Due to its inherent performance-enhancing attributes, double wishbone suspension underpins the second-generation NSX supercar and was a staple of Acura performance products of the past, including the Legend (1986-1995), Integra (1990-2001), TL and TL Type S (1996-2014), and first-generation NSX (1991-2005).
05-26-2020, 02:43 PM
#1598
Acura already explained the advantages of the two control arms in today's press release.
https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...ont-suspension
The new TLX’s front suspension uses two wishbone-shaped control arms, in place of the more common Macpherson strut setup in many competing sport sedans, to deliver more precise control of wheel camber, caster and toe angles, and to maximize tire-to-ground contact for exceptional handling precision and cornering grip. Due to its inherent performance-enhancing attributes, double wishbone suspension underpins the second-generation NSX supercar and was a staple of Acura performance products of the past, including the Legend (1986-1995), Integra (1990-2001), TL and TL Type S (1996-2014), and first-generation NSX (1991-2005).
https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...ont-suspension
The new TLX’s front suspension uses two wishbone-shaped control arms, in place of the more common Macpherson strut setup in many competing sport sedans, to deliver more precise control of wheel camber, caster and toe angles, and to maximize tire-to-ground contact for exceptional handling precision and cornering grip. Due to its inherent performance-enhancing attributes, double wishbone suspension underpins the second-generation NSX supercar and was a staple of Acura performance products of the past, including the Legend (1986-1995), Integra (1990-2001), TL and TL Type S (1996-2014), and first-generation NSX (1991-2005).
05-26-2020, 02:44 PM
#1599
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05-26-2020, 02:45 PM
#1600
Racer
Fully loaded Accord Touring 2.0T is $42k CAD. Top of the line (non-PMC) TLX 3.5L V6 SH-AWD is $48k CAD. Hopefully non-Type S top of the line remains a tad below $50k lol!!!