niray9

Just noticed that Consumer reports downgraded the rating of TLX 4cyl from an earlier 79 to now 57 & the V6 rating is now at 55(can't remember where it was earlier).

My guess is this is all due to the transmission issues??? Anybody have any idea?

Marcelechka

Said it once before...

TLX =

Saintor

Well, I'd rather say that the IS looks like a . Would rather have a paper grocery bag on my head while driving this horror.

CR should continue .... on appliances. As repeatedly shown in the past, they don't know about cars, obviously.

youngTL

That certainly hasn't been my experience. The only thing I wish the car wouldn't do is add throttle while manually downshifting to engine brake (behaviour addressed in a very recent TSB, so I have to wait a little bit since I'm Canadian). Every other aspect of the car has been perfect, including fit and finish, fuel economy, and driving feel (for me). It strikes a good balance of comfort cruiser and sporty in SH-AWD form.

'16 owners haven't had the trans issues of the 2015, which I agree was terrible when I test drove a 2015.

TacoBello

We'd all be happy if that bag was on your head... and hopefully tied really tight around your neck. Get over it. Besides AZ, lots of people do not like the TLX.

And now back on topic... I thought the transmission issues have been resolved... that doesn't overly explain the drop in rating. Unless it is back dated?

youngTL

I think it's for the past year, not current. The '16's were only released in late 2015, so most of the 2015 owners surveyed would have had the old transmission.


I'm not really disagreeing with you on the fact that there are a number of people who dislike the TLX, but I'll outline why I think that is below, and what my personal process in making my decision on one was:

I test drove an IS350 AWD about 5 times before I settled on the TLX. They were dead even in my mind for the most part, with some advantages one way and some the other way. If you think the 9AT is lazy in the TLX, that's nothing compared to that lame 6AT in the IS350 AWD (RWD NOT AVAILABLE, lol). I generally liked the car, but the TLX had key advantages in fuel economy and useable space, and yes, the 9AT was sharper and quicker to shift than the 6AT in the IS350. And it wasn't really a more luxurious car. The IS350 had a better design on the door cards and some fake dash stitching. I think if Acura added those two things, the car would seem more luxurious (the door cards in the TLX suck). But the seats are a wash, and the TLX has a better sound system than the ML system in the IS. The TLX rides nicer, the IS has less body roll and better weight balance. The IS350AWD is actually slower than the SH-AWD TLX while being worse on gas (much worse, over 20% on the take-home test drives I had).


But yes, the TLX is considered a lot more 'boring' based on the very conservative design. It certainly won't win many enthusiasts over except for a few of us like me. I'd buy it again. But I'd also rather buy a Type-S version. I think that's its problem. It's good at everything but not necessarily standout in any single area. A lot of the people that don't like it don't like it based on either the appearance of luxury that other makes have (only the MB C-class is truly more luxurious, everyone else in that price range is about equal to the TLX, just have better door cards and a more exciting design), or they don't like it based on the fact it doesn't stand out, or because they drove a 2015 with a bad tranny.

Also I think too many people overlook just how good the TLX is on fuel in the real world outside the EPA ratings. For me to be getting 5.9L/100 km on the highway and averaging 9.8L/100km in city driving, while NOT driving like a grandma, is pretty impressive if you ask me for an N/A V6 heavy AWD sedan. And it has a fat torque curve without having to deal with turbo lag like so many of the 2.0T engine options in this segment.

If Mercedes-Benz weren't so expensive, the C450 4MATIC (Canada does NOT get the RWD option as of 2016, AWD only), is the only other car in this segment I'd even consider, but it's kinda priced itself out of this segment entirely at this point (the lesser C300 4MATIC is just as luxurious, but it's slow as balls). BMW interiors are just plain spartan, and so are Audi until you spend 60k+ (CAD). Lexus are good, but the IS is rougher inside than the ES (and the ES is truly boring, my dad bought a 2015, but it's quite nice). And Infiniti are too overstyled for me. The 3.7L VQ engines are pretty harsh in the NVH department.

niray9

Personally, I don't stomp on the accelerator at low speeds. However, after it gets past the first 2 gears it gets ok.

I got my AcuraCare for any protection. Hopefully that helps .

youngTL

We drive very differently, lol. I redline the damn thing every day, multiple times a day. I did it with my 3G TL-S and doing it now with the TLX. Seems to like it. But I keep up on maintenance under the 'severe' schedule.

baelim

I used to put an emphasis on CR in the past. Now as far as I'm concerned lower the CR score the better! I shall wear it with pride

weather

YoungTL....You know me, I am not one to challenge or argue people's point of view, that is an individual thing - but from my perspective, I have a different view on the IS350. I agree that the fuel consumption is far inferior to that of a TLX....But with the exact same driving style and condition as my former 2012 TL, the difference isn't that significant.

niray9

I stopped trying to do that at low speed, meaning from stops.

youngTL

I certainly don't dislike the IS350. I almost bought it in fact. But it was just the 'wrong' combination of priorities for me.


And the 2012 TL had what I consider abysmal fuel economy. That scared me off way more than the beak.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

TLX drives really nicely. Comfortable and enough power for what anyone would need on the road. Great sound system...

Marcelechka

Drove a slew of vehicles in this segment prior to pulling the trigger on the IS; TLX being one of them... before even starting the car, I didn't get that first impression "holy shit this cabin is sick!" sitting behind the wheel... Wasn't just the car either; the Lexus lease program was a no brainer.

Everyone has different priorities as youngTL said; TLX just didn't cut for me at the end of the day.

Perhaps with a TLX-S (assuming that'll ever happen), I/former owners might venture back.

youngTL

For me, neither the TLX cabin nor the IS350 cabin blew me away. There were aspects I didn't like about both. Unfortunately the Lexus Canada lease program is just as shitty as every other manufacturer up here. A lease for any car in this segment ($40-50k) is going to be $650-800 per month for a 3-year.

I think a lot of the cars in this segment are a close call with each other. In the US things are a bit different because the Germans and sometimes Lexus offer cheap leases (which they do NOT in Canada).

hddnav

If you've ever listened to their "Talking Cars" podcast, you would hear that they've completely changed the way they review cars. Back in the 1990's they used to rate cars the same way they did refrigerators. Nowadays, they're much more sophisticated, emotional, and, quite frankly, intellectual than garbage car magazines such as Car and Driver and Motor Trend.

In one of their podcasts, they described the TLX as having been launched with a pair of bad transmissions. If I look on this forum, as well as the MDXer's forum, it's quite clear that most of the complaints are exactly of that sort, which is enough to scare off any objective shopper without blind brand loyalty. Heck, I'd even steer clear of the Honda Pilot 9-speed, as well! My wife just bought a Lexus RX, and we didn't even consider the MDX precisely because of the 9-speed transmission.

Marcelechka

Interesting.

You really didn't like the cabin? I love how inviting it is... definitely a driver's car IMO.

Regarding the lease program, it was just bonkers...

Zero down, $269 / mo, 7.5k mi/yr, 27 mos. (Fully loaded)

The 350 F pkg would've been floating around $300 ~ $315.

No other manufacturer was remotely close.

TLX 3.5 Advance was quoted at ~$440 10k mi/yr, 36 mo. They didn't offer 27 mos nor 7.5k miles.

Canada prices

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Which dealer in south florida did you get that deal from?

Lexus of PP has a non F pkg IS 200t for 0 down, 7.5k miles a year, 36 months, 369 a month.

They also have a 200 month/ for 27 months with 4995 down and 7.5k miles a year.

Marcelechka

^ Went through a broker, car came from JM Lexus out of Coconut Creek.

See thread below:
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-tal...-921503/page3/

I'll PM details if interested

Nedmundo

You're absolutely right about CR's transformation in analyzing cars. I've been reading CR and the car mags for decades, and the transformation was obvious around 2000 when they picked the Passat over Camry and Accord because the Passat had superior driving dynamics. They really are enthusiasts at CR, though it's usually more obvious in their videos than the written reviews, and their focus on practicality and reliability can create a different impression.

Disagree about C&D though. They lost me for awhile, but have been getting back to their previous high standards of late. For example, I haven't seen anyone else analyze the issues with electrically assisted steering the way C&D have. Whenever I've suspected BS in one of their reviews, then driven the car myself, I've found they've been 100% accurate.

I also suspect you're right that the TLX's problems stem from the transmissions.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Agreed. I enjoy the Talking Cars podcast even though it's mostly based on their opinions - which is completely different than the ratings the cars get which is derived from the end-user studies on reliability.

I'll wager a million bucks the score dropped primarily because of complaints on the ZF transmission which is 100% reality.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Joe, put that checkbook away!

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

it's not for me- a friend is in the market for an IS so that is why I was asking

TacoBello

But the V6 models are more expensive, which means that Acura sells less of them as compared to the I4. To have a score drop THAT much must mean there was a lot of unhappy 9AT customers out there

Mr Hyde

Compared to an IS200? Lol.

mindanalyzer

A new Accord (checking every possible box) is a much better purchase than the current TLX. Appearance wise It almost looks like a Mercedes.
I cannot believe that most new Honda vehicles look and ride better than the Acura's equivalent

note: Most of Acura fanboys are oblivious to the truth. In my opinion modern Acuras are

My

mapleloaf

IMagine having Acura enthusiasts on an Acura forum. Astounding. As one who has owned lots of Hondas and Acuras, I actually have an informed opinion. The new Accord is a very nice car, one that I have test driven extensively, but it neither looks as good as my TLX, it is does not drive or handle as well. Pretty close, but no cigar. Why is it that the most uninformed opinions are stated in the most extreme way? The louder the opinion, the generally more biased and uninformed it is, in all walks of life….in my humble experience.

dezymond

Test drove both the new Accord and TLX. I now own a TLX and two of the main reasons I chose it over the Accord is because it looks and rides better.

No doubt the newly designed Accord is a great value car.

Marcelechka

No - compared to the 350.

We opt'd for the 200 since it made the most financial sense.

We'll get a proper weekend toy

Marcelechka

I'd also like to point out that a tune is now available for the 2.0T line courtesy of Tuning Tech FS (TTFS).... so yeah, why not compare it.

Mr Hyde

Riiightttt

Calling it a POS is pretty harsh. Was expecting to see more than a base model IS in your stable being used as the yardstick.

Having owned an IS300, the new one never even made my short list. The exterior styling, lackluster interior design (barely evolved from the original), cramped rear seats, tiny trunk, and fuel economy tossed it right from the get go. It was also the worst car I've even driven in the snow, and I owned a 540 sport at the same time, so that says a lot. Unless you get the 350, performance from a RWD "sports" sedan to put it in terms you'd better understand is also

Lol. I won't even get into modifying vehicles and comparing them to stock vehicles.

TacoBello

Right, so:

1. Looks are subjective. So either way is a wash.

2. The IS sucked in the snow due to the tires. You can't tell me the TLX would be any better on the same tires. Unfortunately Lexus nor Acura cannot put different tires on the same car, simply due to region. Everyone gets the same. Each company chose each specific tire for a reason. Tires will always compromise on something, where they excel at another thing. Why do you use 3-season tires in the winter, anyway?

3. I will give you the upper hand on the size of the TLX vs IS, however, not everyone is looking for the biggest car for their buck.

4. I will give you the upper hand on fuel economy.

Mr Hyde

Where did I say anything about using 3 season tires in the snow?

Also the RWD IS with all seasons (Conti DWS) was worse than my RWD 540i with all seasons, and way more HP and torque. The FWD TLX with its awful tires will run circles around both, let alone the AWD version.

The IS was bought by my then girlfriend, now wife. I daily drove it after trading in my 5 on an SUV for her. It was a very dull 2 years.

Mr Hyde

Btw. Yes looks are subjective, but that's like saying the front of the pre MMC 4th gen TL wasn't hideous since that's subjective.
When polarizing looks is a common issue with a vehicle it's more than a wash.

niray9

I disagree. I have driven the Acura TLXs and Honda accords back to back(dealership are in adjacent lots) & and in my opinion the Acuras are clearly better in terms of NVH, quality of materials,driving dynamics & looks. I think the 8 speed is better than the CVT from a driving dynamics perspective. Just from a build perspective, inspite of both cars being of equal size on the outside the TLX is 250 pounds heavier.

Price wise the additional $s is not that much more. For e.g. in the SF Bay Area the truecar average price of a Acura I4 Tech pkg is $34739 vs Honda Accord 4 cyl EXL CVT with navigation for $$29182. So, for additional $5.5K I'm getting a better built car which also drives better.

I have used the truecar price average just so that the price comparison is Apples to Apples. I bought my TLX I4 for $33xxx. People who bought after me have got it cheaper & I would guess the same for people who bought the Accords.

niray9

FYI, the Lexus IS 250 is rated at 65 currently. Since, it's a new model I doubt it's been re rated.

From my understanding TLX has been re rated due to consumer complaints on the transmission. However, the initial rating was 79. Personally, I'm happy with the transmission on the I4. Have no experience on the V6.

Comparing just the Consumer Reports initial rating of TLX to IS, the TLX definitely was superior.

BeezleTL85

Same, and yes, it does like it. My 3G took a beating everyday going 100+ and redlining and I only ran into one real issue and it was a crappy water pump. I hope the TLX is half the car my 3G was.

Saintor

Right on.

Coming from a few Bimmers, no way I would have considered another Honda (owned 3). The TLX is clearly a more luxury proposition than any Accord.

CybrRdr

I amuses me how liking and/or defending an Acura is a bad thing on an Acura Forum.

I agree that the TLX does have issues, but calling the TLX a is a bit extreme.

That being said... I also like the current Lexus designs which is why my wife has a Lexus NX F-sport. I think the current IS is sporty but the size has always been an issue to me.

TacoBello

Right, so referring back to where I said "manufactures put on one tire for all regions because they have to". 9 times out of 10, OEM tires are garbage anyway. But sure, lets rate a car based on the crappy and easily replaceable tires it comes on

Right, and so the tens of thousands of more people who buy Lexus' over Acuras must all be crazy then It's ok if you don't like it, but calling the new Lexus design language anything similar to the 4G TL is a bit of a stretch. Last I checked, 4G sales went down because of the hideous looks. I don't think that happened to Lexus at all.

You know what, forget it. The TLX is the greatest automobile the planet has ever seen since the release of the Model T. It supercedes EVERYTHING, including hypercars, in the looks, power, quality, reliability, handling, braking and customer satisfaction departments.

Add that to your signature so that you can give yourself a pat on the back every time you read it for buying the greatest car on earth. The rest of us will face reality for what it is