TacoBello

I would expect the 4 cylinder to sell more. Cheaper trim levels generally sell better than the more pricey counterparts. Not that there's anything wrong with the V6, but when it comes to spending money on a car, lots of people get the lower-mid to mid trims way more than the absolute base or more loaded options.

I still think acura moves plenty of the V6s though. If the 4G or 3G TL came with a 4 cylinder, no one would have bought the TSX

Redsand353

This ^

In my 5 years of combined ownership of my '06 and '07 cars, I had quite a few loaners. I was always thrilled when they would throw me the keys to a 3.7 SH-AWD 4G....the styling was "meh", but it was an absolutely fun car to drive. Now, the TLX on the other hand just seemed like a downgrade in every aspect to me....handling, power delivery, very floaty, I can keep going....

But...thats just my opinion, shoot me

TheAcAvenger

I don't know about all of that. Some people just want smaller cars. In fact, my biggest gripe with the 4G was that it was way too big. If they'd offered a 4G 4-banger TL, I still would've picked the tsx over it. When you consider the price overlap between german cars and their engine grades, usually the higher engine grades of lower series cars cost just as much, if not more than the entry level motors of the higher series cars (i.e. C43 vs E350, S4 vs A6 2.0, 340 vs 525) and smaller ones sell better because they're usually more fun to drive

I remember when the first gen TSX came out and I got one as a loaner. Was it as nice as the 2g TL-S? No way. As fast? Not even close. But it was really fun to drive. When the 3G TL came out, they were an amazing 1-2 punch of sedans. The 3G was probably the one instance where a 4-banger would've dented TSX sales because it had extra size without significant loss in fun-to-drive (This is why the E39 5 series was so popular. You weren't losing much fun moving from the E46 3 series to the E39 and that's saying a lot).Both were pretty much as fun as FWD got. Then all of a sudden, the script completely changed, and both the TSX and TL got more mature, heavier, less fun. If you weren't in need of carrying 4 adults or you lived in/near a city, the 4G was obnoxiously big and heavy. The SH-AWD was actually a solid performing car, but raw numbers never feel as exciting when you know you're piloting around a whale. If you wanted a new acura that was like the 3G, neither the 2G TSX nor the 4G TL were very close, but I feel like the 2G TSX shared a bit more of the spirit. Acura almost had the right idea when they brought in the ILX. When the 5 series became a baby 7 series and the 3 series started to balloon, BMW finally gave north america the 1 series/2 series, which have a lot more "old school bmw" feel. The ILX could've harkened back the spirit of the integra, 1st gen TSX, 3G TL, but was actually the most bland, uninspiring car they ever produced. I think the TLX is a step in right direction in terms of size and engine options. It's back to 3G proportions, it has engine options that cover the old TSX fans and the old TL fans...

... But I don't think Acura accounted for the power of the crossover. If all you want are luxury appointments and transportation from point A to point B, most people these days buy a crossover. Why wouldn't you? More utility, more space, the footprint is usually actually smaller, people feel safer, they're easier to see out of, etc. etc. The reason you buy a sedan over the crossover is because it's more fun to drive. I don't think the TLX does that well. It's uninspiring. I'm not really sure that a super high performance turbo v6 is the way to fix that, because you're just going to drive the price point into a space where Acura isn't going to be able to compete. Granted, a nice low 300s turbo v6 as the regular V6 motor should be done, but Acura can do a lot more of the little things that appeal to enthusiasts. And I think appealing to enthusiasts is relevant, because if you're not an enthusiast, you're probably buying an Accord or a crossover instead.

1) Offer AWD on the 4 cylinder. I can't believe they don't do this. It'd be the key difference from the Accord. People who live where it snows want AWD. Need it? No, but they want it and they have a ton of options to get it. DC isn't a major snow city, but with nearly every luxury car I can think of, I see more of the AWD variants than the RWD variants, and I see more AWD variants than big engine variants. It'd be the one most able to convince me to buy a new acura.

2) Transmissions. I get it. No one buys manuals anymore. It's probably not worth making one unless it's on a high performance Type-S model. Don't get me started on how obvious an ILX SH-AWD with a 6MT is, but I think there are too many fun options on the market to bother making a 6MT for a FWD car. The people that are still clinging to manuals are probably not going to compromise to FWD anymore. With all of that said, stop the ZF 9AT. It's a damn SUV transmission. Sure, some people are convinced that DCTs can't be smooth (I guess they haven't driven current gen Audis, but okay) so go ahead and blasphemously add a torque converter to it if you must like you do on the 4cyl.

3) Limited slip differentials. If Acura can make it fit, it's a subtle add that 99% of their customers won't understand but it will make the car feeeeeel sportier. I think this all comes down to feel. If you look at the spec sheet, you could convince yourself that the TLX was a sporty car until you drive it. The car is missing the perception of fun during test drives. I wonder how many previous Acura owners drive the TLX and say "nice car but it's bland/missing something". I don't think the TLX is a bad car at all, it just feels uninspired. Little things like this go a long way to fixing that perception.

4) Exhaust note. This is tough, considering one of the draws for the TLX is how isolationist it is on the interstate. It's like a bank vault and people like that. I hate the trend of piping in fake exhaust through the speakers, and I get why the car mags bash it all the time. But, I can also admit that it doesn't add a more visceral experience to the drive. Some sort of valved sport exhaust might be a draw for some people here. When someone shows up to dealer lots in some sort of enthusiast's car, that's what you need to give them to test drive them. Again, it all comes back to planting sporting seeds in customers heads.

TL/DR... upmarket appliance sedans aren't going to sell well in the crossover era. You have to give someone to pay a premium for a sedan and the TLX doesn't feel inspired enough for a lot of Acura fans that frequent this site and the sales numbers seem to be agreeing with us. The high performance engine offerings from hyundai, kia, and infiniti suggest to me that just giving it a stronger motor isn't going to be a magic cure. It's the little things.

Saintor

I can find you a few isolated transmission replacements in 3-series as well. Like this one published today.
Transmission replaced 2015 335 sport auto - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

How many do you need?

It just isn't a trend like we saw in its first year.

I did and It does, IMO. Because it is basically one. At least for that premium price, my Sciroccos had some sex appeal. This Golf has the sex appeal of a shoe. Ah I miss them.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree with this 100%. The TLX is a pure civilian non-boosted family car, not a no nanny, high powered, street legal race car that will kill you if you don't learn to dive it properly. Any reasonably competent driver should be able to get into a car & have it perform up to its full potential without having to learn to play games with the controls to get the car to do the things any reasonable family oriented street car should do as a basic set of functions..

TacoBello

Why do you keep using BMW as your justification for Acura's problems? BMW has nothing to do with it; we're just looking at Acura as a whole and Acura's issues alone. If you want to compare Acura reliability to BMW reliability, maybe you should compare them as a whole, in all aspects then. Sure, Acura may somewhat win the reliability segment- but what about power, handling, materials, fit and finish, customer service, etc... Yeah, not much of a contest.

Fibonacci

We will simply have to respectfully agree to disagree. I don't dispute that the Golf R looks like an econobox, but it doesn't drive like one. As for lacking sex appeal, totally agree it lacks style points, but didn't buy it for looks and actually dig the sleeper style.

As for reliability, it is a concern of mine. But after my two year stint in the TLX with the various recalls and TSB's, it was a test run for German.

TacoBello

Thanks for taking what I said at 100% face value and thinking it applies to all scenarios and options and blah blah blah. Their are always people on the outskirts of any spectrum in the car market that make any possible scenario not be black and white. I don't think it is out of the norm to say that your average car buyer wants as much car as they can get, for as cheap as possible. Yes their are those who don't necessarily feel the same. I'm not talking about them.

Gen4MDX

i agree that people should discuss the pro/con. The issue I have, is that it is the same suspects (I won't name user names) but you each know who you are. Your bitterness and negativity has grown way too old in the tooth. Give it up finally and move on!

BEAR-AvHistory

That he had a trans replaced is the bad news but the rest of the sentence is pretty typical:
"It has 21k on the odometer. Not abused, never driven it on a track. I do drive somewhat aggressively, when conditions allow, which does not happen too often in NYC. This is my fourth bimmer and a first serious issue."

Personally I have had 5 since 2004, two modified & tracked, with no major problems.

Yes because as was mentioned whatever you have is always the best. Guess it was that PREIMUM price that made it so. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but if you think the car in the picture is sexy have you considered glasses?

TacoBello

When has the Golf, regardless of trim, had sex appeal? It's never been about sex appeal whatsoever. I'm not hating on the car either- it just was never designed for that purpose.

The Scirocco, 35 years ago, WAS sold as being a sexy car. That's part of the allure of a sports/sporty car. The Golf always played on its more, dare I say, utilitarian configuration. It was a normal car designed to do normal car things, like hauling shit, hauling people and being economical all while doing that. VW decided to spice things up by taking a "utilitarian" vehicle and giving us sport focused trims, like the GTI or R. There is a fine line differentiating the two, right from conception on some designer's desk, and actually, likely before that too.

Energia

The Golf R drives really nice.....I think the GTI is frankly a bit ooverhyped and at that price point I would pick something else, especially if I do not need the hatchback practicality but the Golf R is a different beast.

In terms of "econoboxiness" (pass me the neologism), the Golf is technically as refined as the Accord (and the TLX is based on the Accord) so one is not more econobox than the other.

As far as reliability, just do not plan to keep a high performance car longer than its warranty (or extended warranty) from any brand and you will be all right.

BEAR-AvHistory

Key is two things. The BMW costs more than a TLX so its a safe target here. He got no respect on the BMW board about his version, think it was an older 323 or something like that. Said it was the only one to have because the others cost too much. It was an older base NA I6 & according to him very much superior to the new I4Turbos that would kick his butt. Was also big on fuel economy & could run 87 in his car. Turbos wanted higher octane more expensive fuel. Think that covers it.

Fibonacci

Not bitter and still am an Acura owner, it's just a car. Happy to learn that there is a new career for me to aspire to.

RDX10

What the hell does BMW have to do with anything? Your failed attempt at a strawman argument holds zero weight and even less validity if that is even possible. Giving me some random statistic about a completely unrelated car in no way discredits my response to you stating emphatically that there is no longer any issues with the ZF9 AT...if anything you just mentioned another car with a ZF box (although unrelated) that is having issues and supports my argument even more, indirectly.

I never said no other companies have issues with their transmissions, just simply that you need to stop misleading people by saying the ZF9 AT no longer has issues when it clearly does. I went on to say that it could be an isolated case and your response is to come at me with a completely unrelated car and somehow try and pawn that off on me?

Thank you!

But Taco why are you poking more holes in the strawman argument? Other companies have issues too, therefore Acura is awesome and we should never ever say anything negative about the brand.....rolling my eyes heavily.

steve_97060

there is nothing wrong with any of your posts, sorry you got caught up in the crossfire. the bitterness referrals are not directed at you.

Saintor

Confused delirium for old folks.

Finally.

pyrodan007

You're a troll, pure and simple. Go put you "Captain TLX - First Acura Avenger"TM suite and come back to say "you're wrong I'm not an Acura troll, my opinion is always right". People really can't have a good conversion with you. I was enjoying this thread with perfectly legit pros and cons until you typed something as usual. When people type pros, you stay quiet. When something remotely non-positive is mentioned you scream bloody murder and start comparing all other companies non-related faults (now VW is part of your list with BMW, Audi, Infiniti, Lexus ...etc ) to Acura.

Do do me a favor, go for a drive in your Acura mobile please.

Jakes_tl

Fibonacci - how about some pics of the R?

wlkeel

Agree completely - not directed to you at all, Fibonacci. They are directed at a handful of folks who express their bitterness over and over and over again, in almost any thread started on this forum.

The Ignore List is my friend , but it's still hard to avoid them since someone always makes the mistake of quoting them .

Gen4MDX

you are not one of the "usual" suspects I was referring to.

mk5

I can get on board with this. Honda seems to have a clear vision for itself, but not for Acura. Honda is all about safety, sustainability, environment, and autonomous driving (which, if you haven't noticed -- and I don't know how anyone couldn't at this point -- is the main objective for most, if not all, big-time automakers right now). Honda wants to be fully autonomous by 2020.

In contrast, Acura is "Precision Crafted Performance," but, as you aptly point out (and have folks all over this board for months) -- the product does not convincingly meet the slogan, save for the new NSX. Honda needs to decide if Acura is going to further the gas economy and safety mantra or if will truly be a performance line. Acura should be the R&D playground for Honda. It's supposed to be a luxury line; you want more HP? OK, we can do that -- that's a luxury. Better handling than an Accord? We can do that, too -- that's a luxury.

A Honda Accord should not have a faster/just as fast 0-60 time than its Acura counterpart.

That said, I challenge anyone to find any other car with the same features and technology as the TLX for the price that the TLX is selling for. Acura right now is a value and, aside from the dreaded transmission jerks and vibrations, everyone knows they are pretty much bulletproof in reliability vs. everyone except Toyota/Lexus. The good thing is, I don't think Honda/Acura likes being the "value luxury" brand...time will tell.

pyrodan007

^Well said, fully agree!

Saintor

This is an Acura enthusiast site (see title as evidence), not an Acura bashing site. I think that some people need to get their constant frustrations elsewhere.

mindanalyzer

I have owned both Honda and Acura vehicles in the past. About the current models, I really like the ones made by Honda; ... as for the Acura's, in my opinion, they are a disgrace and are basically destroying the solid reputation that this brand was able to achieve for a number of years. Many people are still buying A's on rep alone but many others are opening their eyes ...

mindanalyzer

Acura

really? where ... at http://www.I-hate-Acura.com?

weather

Saintor - I agree that people shouldn't bash for the sake of bashing and anti-Acura comments only to infuriate or condescending without facts shouldn't be encouraged but that being said, as a guy who drove 2 TSX, 1 TL, 1RDX and 1 ILX, I feel that I have been a significant contributor to this forum and a big fan of Acura till now. A site where people only sings sunshine and lollypop is not productive either and if Acura people read this site, it will give a false sense that all is OK and their 9 speed ZF unit is flawless and that their design team is hitting home runs and where will that leave everyone?!? We need to be able to hit Acura hard enough to wake them up, to a point where they wake up as they did with the shield (beak) and dual exhausts....eventually, reality will hit them in the face. I mean look on how often Toyota has been accused of bland designs.....Have you see the freakin' new Camry?!?! Look at that picture with the white color on Motor trend. Shit, if Acura released a model like that, we'd all stain our shorts (front).....Why can't Acura who is supposed to be the adrenaline division of Honda producing designs more bland that Honda is....YOu talked about delirium for old folks, I think that is who Acura has become lately.

tsturbo - not sure if your post was geared at me? While I recognized I am critical lately, I have been and will continue to help members and speak as openly and truthfully when I am here. While I will never bash for the sake of bashing, I will also not sugar coat my opinion for the sake of just saying what people want to read. I have been here for a long time and very respectful member who dislike confrontation and disrespectful posts towards members and posters. Yes, I am critical of the management and design team at Acura but they are responsible for their own mess. I feel that we, car enthusiast and Acura owners (or those like myself waiting to come back) are the one truly hurting......

TheAcAvenger

+1000

It's not like those of us complaining are just trolls who joined AZine to complain about the new models. We've been here for a long time. Most of us have owned several models over a long time period and want the company to do well. Acurazine is an enthusiasts site, a site for Acura enthusiasts to share their opinions. Clearly we're enthusiasts, or else we wouldn't bother talking about Acuras on a car forum. There's a difference between being an enthusiasts site and a just a fan-site. The mere fact that so much negativity exists illustrates that it's not all sunshine in rainbows in acura land.

Nukem

Unfortunately Acura's quality in vehicles has been sinking for the past few years. This past summer I was dead set on trading my '05 TL in for a '16 TLX Advance. After a test drive, I had second thoughts. It is not just the TLX. All the models (Can't speak for the new NSX) have gotten worse. For the TLX it is not even a jack of all trades, master of none, it is just an econobox. Someone said it earlier in the thread. Honda has a clear and precise direction for Honda, but Acura always seems like a second thought. Gone are the days of the Integra, Legend, and the old NSX. In the 90s Acura competed against the likes of BMW and Mercedes. To those that are being very disrespectful to the OP for complaining, you are just making this forum feel like a high school drama. Keep it up and no one will take this forum or you serious. Are you seriously proposing this thread be closed because they said something negative about the TLX. It was not Acurazine that dropped the ball, it was Acura who dropped the ball. Something that they have been doing it for a while now. There is suppose to be a mass model refresh coming down from Acura. Hopefully it will get Acura back in the right direction.

Energia

Unfortunately the consensus out there is in contrast with what you are saying. From a purely feautures/tech/performance for $$$ actually there are some non premium sedans that beat the TLX.
Two major car publications (Car And Driver and Consumer Report) stated that the TLX fail to distinguish itself even from mainstream midsize sedans.
Even the sales number for 2016 are not a strong indication that the public at large find strong value in the car. In its intended segment it did beat only the ATS, the A4 pretty sold as much despite the new model was introduced only in late March.

And these two new sporty sedans are coming from non premium brands this year
I suspect they will offer a very strong value for the dollar.

Kia Stinger (top trim 3.3 twin turbo with AWD)








Buick Regal (top version with a V6 turbo 330 HP and AWD with active Torque Vectoring)

weather

...and while this is off topic, I mean look at this!! Toyota Camry - Panoramic roof, gorgeous lines, aggressive styling, beautiful wheels....

But we are asked to keep saying the design team at Acura is doing a great job and are delivering - this pic says it all, again, off topic but Camry!! and for those that may not notice...NO TAPED ON (with adhesive at the dealer) bodykits!!

pyrodan007

^ Holy shit, that's a Camry?! Reminds me of the old Buick commercials lol

And that Stinger is what the new/current TLX should have been, very unfortunate

weather

Yeah!! Crazy eh??!

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Folks, thanks for the discussion but this thread has gone off topic and subsequently closed. Wishing you the best of luck with your new ride Fib!