internalaudit

Double Wish Bone suspension vs. Macpherson Strut
8-speed DCT vs. CVT
P-AWS vs no P-AWS

Just wondering if it's worthwhile to go with the I4 TLX but then again, all I want from the V6 is the SH-AWD

Rocketsfan

Since we don't know all the details or pricing on any TLX variant, I doubt anyone can intelligently answer the question at this point.

Just for grins, though, here's a blurb that contains a comment or two about a 2013 Accord fitted with the new TLX I4 engine : http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...rque-converter

KeithL

Did Acura state the TLX would be DWB? I assume they would go struts just like the Accord.

internalaudit

Sorry, you are right. I don't think there has been any mention of what the TLX front suspension type will be. I was jumping the gun on that one.

If it will be Struts, then I might just go with an Accord, even with some complaints about the CVT, since the premium (premium fuel, maintenance cost, extended warranty) for P-AWS is not going to be worthwhile in my book.

jbawden

The Accord is finally decent looking again and now that I compare the Accord and available TLX images, the sheetmetal has similarities (not saying there are the same, but the DNA is undeniable) I think if there is a reason to make the TLX front and rear fascia look like the prototype is to further distinguish the two cars...and look at those two chrome exhaust tips on the Accord, nice!

jshaw

Yeah, if it's struts, then it's a no-go for me. Otherwise, I think ventilated seats, heated steering wheel, parking sonar, and other niceties are probably the main deal, nowadays.

SilverJ

Accord is decent looking for sure. I do hate the Honda Grill though.
One thing I do like about the Accord is the availability of a TRUE manual. Which with a FOUR cylinder can go 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. That's pretty damn good IMO.
Not to mention its at least 10-15 K cheaper than the TLX.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hard to tell at this moment. Here's my list:

8-DCT vs CVT
P-AWS vs no P-AWS
Jewel Eye LED vs halogen projector (Only touring V6 has LED headlights on the Accord)
Engine (it's been stated that the TLX 2.4 will be noticeably different than the Accord's)
Driving dynamics
Drivine modes (eco, normal, sport, etc)
Better sound insulation
Better sound system

I'd imagine many RLX features will be trickled down to the TLX too.

Whether the above upgrades are worthwhile over the Accord is up for debate. It really depends on one's personal preference.

Legend2TL

I'll add '
1) Brembo front brakes (3G 6MT)
2) aluminum front sub-frame (3G)
3) Torsen-type limited slip diff (3G 6MT)

SilverJ

I'm not sure the Brembo brakes are even a plus at this point.
I've had them on both of my TL's and they do a good job and all but they are super expensive to replace and they leave your rims BLACK with brake dust all the time. I bought some Duralast ceramic gold brakes for about 25 percent of the cost and they work very well and don't dust up like the Brembos.
Im sure theres some Road and Track result that shows the Brembos stop a nanosecond faster, but honestly, I don't really care, I'm not racing my TL on a track, its a daily driver.

KeithL

Ditto, my Infiniti M37S had Akebono OEM brakes that were great and left no dust and still had life left at 45K miles. I have Akebono aftermarkets on my A6 and they stop great, and again no dust. Brembos are good, but as stated, dust like hell and expensive to replace.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

like you guise found out, you dont have to use the brake pad your car came with... silly fellas.

use a ceramic pad for less dust!
also, bigger calipers and rotors scrub off heat better. BBK's are more for brake fade, than for stopping distances.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Honestly, I doubt that the Brembos are necessary. Save the money there and apply it to adding the LSD and creating a different, perhaps unique, platform for Acura's cars to differentiate them from Honda's.

Reorge

The TSX I4 has a DWB front setup so at least it's a possibility that the TLX I4 might have it as well.

fsttyms1

Quit thinking of the pads as being Brembo, Its the Brembo Calipers that count. You can change out the pads which will have more bite, less dust and can better handle heat.

seaeyes

I think engine is one of the biggest difference.
Current 2014 accord delivers around 185hp, and I think I4 TLX will make no less than 210hp, since TSX has already 201hp and Honda says I4 TLX will have an "all new" and "high-revving" engine.

210hp is actually not difficult to achieve. If they borrow some tech from the engine of S2000, this number could be even higher.

Of course, tranny is also a big diff between accord and TLX

Legend2TL

The main difference to me is feel, the four piston Brembo's have very low friction with the pistons so they give better control and modulation. Single piston calipers tend to slightly bend and that causes some deformation of the frame that cause less than optimal brake pad to disk contact.

I also changed from the OEM Ferodo pads to Rotex GOld pads. The amount of dust went down dramatically.

+1, yep the pads are from Ferodo and the calipers and rotors are Brembo.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

In general, most of the brake feel is being dictated by the design of the master cylinder as opposed to the design of the caliper itself. BMW did wonders on the last generation M3 with a sliding caliper setup and I think few people would argue that the brake feel of the M3 was poor. Alternatively, Acura used multi-piston calipers on the RL and while brake feel was decent, it wasn't anything amazing.

I think the added cost of a multi-piston caliper is worth it in a car with a huge amount of power, but with only around 300 hp, I really feel like the extra cost that would be spent on the fancy calipers would be better put towards another engineering aspect of the car that will be accessible to the average buyer (better tires would be a good place to start). And this is coming from someone who owned a 3G TL-S and has spent considerable time behind the wheel of all iterations of the 2G RL.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^brake bias.

it's so silly when people change out calipers for a bigger set, while it does improve brake feel, you're stopping longer.

the bigger set has to retain brake bias in order to be effective, matching the properties of the master cylinder

Legend2TL

It's both, I've ridden and driven sliding and fixed calipers on motorcycles and cars. In general there is a difference between fixed and sliding calipers.

I've never driven a M3, but did drive a 3G TL 6MT and 5AT back to back and I could feel the difference in the control and modulation between the Brembo 4 piston and sliding Nissin single piston front brakes.

I've also ridden many motorcycles with sliding and fixed calipers. There is a difference in modulation feel and control.

There is little if any difference in stopping distance as that is mostly affected by tire performance on road vehicles.


FWIW, Brembo have a proprietary process for their pistons with a coating that has extremely low friction with the bores and seals. Sorta like the formula for Coke-cola.

So for 4 piston calipers

Brembo > other manufacturers (Wilwood, Nissin, ATE, Girling,...)

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I still think that as far as accessible stopping power and feel, most drivers will never notice the difference. For a mass market car, it is more important to spend the development dollars on areas that are most visible to the largest segment of buyers (steering feel, infotainment experience, engine performance, exterior design) as opposed to things that only enthusiasts will care about (suspension type, brake components, manual transmission). These extra things can be added to a limited edition performance model or as custom order factory components, but do not make sense to add to the standard car since the number of people who will see those as important is relatively small.

And for the record, I absolutely agree with you that there is a difference, but it is subtle compared to other components in the chain.

SilverJ

But the pads that come with the car ARE Brembo. And that's what I was talking about as far as replacement cost. Why wouldn't I think of the pads as being Brembo when they are ?

geekybiker

Yet tires are relatively cheap and easy to change if you want something better. Adding 4 or 6 piston calipers is usually a pretty expensive prospect and then you start getting into all sorts of issues with finding wheels that fit, etc.

If I had choose between a LSD and BBK I'd go LSD. However I'd like to see both if I'm buying a car at this price point. I'm sure extra cost at the factory isn't a ton.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I agree that I too would take and LSD over the BBK. However, I doubt that we will see either since the average buyer does not care about either.

Again, it is less about the cost of the parts, but rather about the trade-off between adding components that only a few buyers will seriously care about versus developing and upgrading features that the vast majority of buyers want and do frequently complain about.

It is this unfortunate reality that has me pretty much convinced that the TLX will not get a manual transmission within the first model year or two and that we will only see it in a limited production special edition car like a Type-S that will likely also see other performance oriented upgrades, but will only be available with a single set of options. This seems to be Acura's MO.

Legend2TL

Actually it the brake bias valve, that adjusts the bias.

On the 3G TL, the master cylinder is the same for Brembo(6MT) or Nissin(5AT) front brakes but the VSA/ABS modulator which integrates the brake bias valving is different.

Legend2TL

Agree, it must be hard for a manufacturer to decide the feature/functions for particular modes. There is little design and development costs for brake systems (not including ABS) it's mostly recurring costs. But yes, most follks probably don't care as long as they see ABS in the feature set.

3G TL 6MT invisible stuff that encouraged me to buy it included 6MT, LSD, aluminum subframe, stiffer sway bars,...

internalaudit

I know we are talking about the I4's on this thread.

But with the SH-AWD in the V6, will LSD be redundant?

I did read online the LSD could be a detriment on some non-straight line acceleration. Not a techie for sure so I'm not sure how LSD stacks against the SH-AWD.

Rocket_man

I would be surprised if the TLX has DWB. Acura is using the same words they used on the TLX that they used on the 9th Accord... the outside gets smaller but the interior space is larger... the way they did this was to use the space saved by the DWB to improve cabin volume. It also seems to help reduce noise and vibration.

But there is no reason people need to hate on the mac-strut. The new Accord does not seem to suffer from the change. I'd wait to see and drive the TLX before passing judgment.