AutoGuide: A4 or TLX Poll
05-18-2017, 09:03 PM
#81
Azine Jabroni
We're not talking about the S4. Also, the DCT is tuned for the American models to provide more lower end aggression, which comes across as a little jerky, but is perfectly suitable for the comfort setting. Jerky, noisy and expensive to maintain - that is correct.
Both cars are new and the TLX has been a mess out of the box. Ressassing old arguments is irrelevant now. Audi has way many more horror stories than Acura. Which one will you trust to 300000 miles again?
It's too bad your fancy V6 from 1994 can't outrun my Jetta and it's "2.0Toy". These things all add up to a significantly better car for a significantly higher price. Sorry but that glorified 2.0Toy in that glorified Golf is definitely an inferior car. German knows that the noise are harsh enough that they chose to tame the 2.0T or create an artificial sounds (BMW...) to offset that tin-can noise, unfit of a $45K car. You can change your signature to Golf instead of Jetta. Indeed Audi updated the MLB platform up to MQB specs (Golf VII, although longitudinal) and calls it the MLB Evo. My bad.
And (before I get flamed), I have owned an Acura. I know why people buy them. I really liked mine. I just wanted something a little nicer. I cross-shoped my TSX with Mazdas and Hondas. The TLX is a great option compared to those brands, a good option compared to Buick, Volvo, and a value option compared to the Germans. But don't start bringing in this "TLX is a better car". - The TLX is certainly a better car and 2018 probably even better . I have zero interest for a car with an horrible interior as in A4 B9 (see above pics ) and 2.0Tin-can engine. The TLX V6 has a real noble engine, that knows how to howl with dignity. Of course the S4 is better with a noble engine to start with , but certainly not an A4 with 2.0T that means "compromise". You can keep it and no need to bring your pointless propaganda here - Audi forums must be as boring as their cars . Thanks.
Both cars are new and the TLX has been a mess out of the box. Ressassing old arguments is irrelevant now. Audi has way many more horror stories than Acura. Which one will you trust to 300000 miles again?
It's too bad your fancy V6 from 1994 can't outrun my Jetta and it's "2.0Toy". These things all add up to a significantly better car for a significantly higher price. Sorry but that glorified 2.0Toy in that glorified Golf is definitely an inferior car. German knows that the noise are harsh enough that they chose to tame the 2.0T or create an artificial sounds (BMW...) to offset that tin-can noise, unfit of a $45K car. You can change your signature to Golf instead of Jetta. Indeed Audi updated the MLB platform up to MQB specs (Golf VII, although longitudinal) and calls it the MLB Evo. My bad.
And (before I get flamed), I have owned an Acura. I know why people buy them. I really liked mine. I just wanted something a little nicer. I cross-shoped my TSX with Mazdas and Hondas. The TLX is a great option compared to those brands, a good option compared to Buick, Volvo, and a value option compared to the Germans. But don't start bringing in this "TLX is a better car". - The TLX is certainly a better car and 2018 probably even better . I have zero interest for a car with an horrible interior as in A4 B9 (see above pics ) and 2.0Tin-can engine. The TLX V6 has a real noble engine, that knows how to howl with dignity. Of course the S4 is better with a noble engine to start with , but certainly not an A4 with 2.0T that means "compromise". You can keep it and no need to bring your pointless propaganda here - Audi forums must be as boring as their cars . Thanks.
Car and Driver:
US News
Audi A4 - 9.0/10
Acura TLX - 8.4/10
Consumer Reports
Acura TLX - 61
Audi A4 - 80
No expert in their right mind suggests the TLX is even in the same ballpark as the A4.
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05-19-2017, 11:11 AM
#82
Burning Brakes
Lol
05-19-2017, 11:33 AM
#83
Team Owner
05-19-2017, 12:14 PM
#84
Banned
Oh I am subscribed to many car mags including C&D and R&T. LOL @ Car&Driver putting the Alfa 1st. I like their numbers but for ranking, they ago along the last fashion. Sorry, $45-50K+ cars need a better and noble engine than a compromised 4-cyl. that sounds questionable. Might be ok at $30-35K, but no more. At that level of price I would take a 340i or TLX before an A4 with an inferior engine. I was in a S90 4-cyl. recently.... yikes!
Last edited by Saintor; 05-19-2017 at 12:17 PM.
05-19-2017, 12:42 PM
#85
Team Owner
You're subjective choices are subjective.
05-19-2017, 01:27 PM
#86
Azine Jabroni
Didn't he just say the BMW 3 series was a tin can or a piece of junk or something? Now he would take it or the TLX over the A4. lol
And I HATE having to go on offensive against the TLX because I grew up driving in bad cars (my dad is a Chevy nut) and as a young adult I would kill for the TLX. It's just not fair to the TLX, TLX drivers, or Audi drivers to say the TLX is better than the A4.
And I HATE having to go on offensive against the TLX because I grew up driving in bad cars (my dad is a Chevy nut) and as a young adult I would kill for the TLX. It's just not fair to the TLX, TLX drivers, or Audi drivers to say the TLX is better than the A4.
05-19-2017, 02:23 PM
#87
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Nope, all I did was choose my province (AB) and then selected the TLX and selected the add taxes and fees button. No options or accessories added. It says 48190 pre taxes and 52k post taxes on the build sheet. Did not select any protection packages or the aero kit or anything.
A4 Prestige: $50600
Advanced Driver Assistance Package - $2000
Comfort Seat Package - $1350
Heated rear seats - $350
Side Air bags - $500
Total: $54800
Not sure what the destination charge is but assuming $1500, plus 5% tax, that's close to $60k. It has a few more features than the TLX such as power lumbar adjustment.
No, what this means is that the 2.0T starts to peter out at 100mph, or, 160km/h. The 2.0T is faster in what i'd call "normal" speeds, but eventually loses out in the upper speed echelon, simply due to the tuning Audi has put on the car, or rather, has limited the car to. On the other hand, Honda isn't exactly limiting power on the 3.5L.
And there in lies the benefit of the 2.0T- tell me, how often do you drive at 160km/h. or faster? how often do you drive around 60-100km/h? The A4 is faster in the normal driving portion of the speed scale. The thing is, as mentioned, Audi limits the tuning on that car- if it doesn't produce enough power for you in the upper echelon, you can have it retuned at a very reasonable cost and get that extra power out of it- something you simply cannot do with the 3.5L.
And there in lies the benefit of the 2.0T- tell me, how often do you drive at 160km/h. or faster? how often do you drive around 60-100km/h? The A4 is faster in the normal driving portion of the speed scale. The thing is, as mentioned, Audi limits the tuning on that car- if it doesn't produce enough power for you in the upper echelon, you can have it retuned at a very reasonable cost and get that extra power out of it- something you simply cannot do with the 3.5L.
I think you are misunderstanding my post. I never said people drive 100mph + all the time...lol.
I'm saying the A4 2.0T is very fast for 0-60mph and 1/4 mile ET because it has a dedicated launch control system, as well as a fast shifting DCT.
A4: 5.2s
TLX AWD: 5.8s
Now, let's have a look at 5-60mph, where there's no launch control system involved. You just get the car up to 5mph, then smash the gas pedal:
A4: 6.0s
TLX: 6.2s
Without the launch control system, you can easily easy how the gap is much smaller. The fast shifting DCT still plays a role though. We don't need to get to 100mph to prove anything. The 5-60mph already shows enough.
Now, when we get to higher speeds, say 0-120mph, we have the following:
A4: 21.9s
TLX 21.7s
No one in their right mind will be driving 120mph on public roads in the US. But the point here is that, with just 0.2s difference, these figures show the A4 and TLX are pretty similar when it comes to acceleration. Stock vs stock, unless you are actually racing each other with the launch control system on, it's really a driver's race. Whoever steps on the gas first would win.
This is what I love about turbo cars (ESPECIALLY VAG cars). The capability to add a tune for a few hundred and bump up the power considerably is really not possible in naturally aspirated vehicles. With VAG specifically you have Revo, Unichip, GIAC, Uprev(?), APR...etc. I was going to get a Q5 and had to choose between the 2.0T and 3.2, I probably would have went with the 2.0T with a tune, but chose to go with something a little cheaper.
For me, I'd go with a boosted V6 for the best of both worlds - V6 sound quality and smoothness + potential for more power
05-19-2017, 04:47 PM
#88
Banned
Coming from a great E46 M54 with excellent aural experience, thanks to its mid-range growl that made for like 50% driving experience, I have been totally APPALLED by all those modern 2.0T "6-cyl. wannabe" in $45-55K segment, including BMW 328i, Audi A4 and C-Class I didn't buy this kind of car at that price level to hear an engine that would sound at home in a Corolla - like the A4 just does. I'll forgive $30-35K car but at $40-45K, I expect more.
Last edited by Saintor; 05-19-2017 at 04:50 PM.
05-19-2017, 05:02 PM
#89
Team Owner
Oh didn't know you included taxes. Here's the A4 Prestige that I priced:
A4 Prestige: $50600
Advanced Driver Assistance Package - $2000
Comfort Seat Package - $1350
Heated rear seats - $350
Side Air bags - $500
Total: $54800
Not sure what the destination charge is but assuming $1500, plus 5% tax, that's close to $60k. It has a few more features than the TLX such as power lumbar adjustment.
Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by limiting power man. I doubt Audi would limit the power once you get to 100mph.
I think you are misunderstanding my post. I never said people drive 100mph + all the time...lol.
I'm saying the A4 2.0T is very fast for 0-60mph and 1/4 mile ET because it has a dedicated launch control system, as well as a fast shifting DCT.
A4: 5.2s
TLX AWD: 5.8s
Now, let's have a look at 5-60mph, where there's no launch control system involved. You just get the car up to 5mph, then smash the gas pedal:
A4: 6.0s
TLX: 6.2s
Without the launch control system, you can easily easy how the gap is much smaller. The fast shifting DCT still plays a role though. We don't need to get to 100mph to prove anything. The 5-60mph already shows enough.
Now, when we get to higher speeds, say 0-120mph, we have the following:
A4: 21.9s
TLX 21.7s
No one in their right mind will be driving 120mph on public roads in the US. But the point here is that, with just 0.2s difference, these figures show the A4 and TLX are pretty similar when it comes to acceleration. Stock vs stock, unless you are actually racing each other with the launch control system on, it's really a driver's race. Whoever steps on the gas first would win.
For NA vs turbo, it comes down to your preference. It's definitely cheaper to get a nice boost of power with a turbocharged engine. On the other hand, a V6 engine is inherently be smoother, refined, and more premium. This is why there are some upset people over at temple of vtec forum - the new Accord might no longer have a V6. Instead, the V6 could be replaced by the 2.0T. We all know how poweful that 2.0T is, and people are getting 400whp easily with it. But there's no denying that the J35 is one smooth and sweet sounding engine despite its age.
For me, I'd go with a boosted V6 for the best of both worlds - V6 sound quality and smoothness + potential for more power
A4 Prestige: $50600
Advanced Driver Assistance Package - $2000
Comfort Seat Package - $1350
Heated rear seats - $350
Side Air bags - $500
Total: $54800
Not sure what the destination charge is but assuming $1500, plus 5% tax, that's close to $60k. It has a few more features than the TLX such as power lumbar adjustment.
Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean by limiting power man. I doubt Audi would limit the power once you get to 100mph.
I think you are misunderstanding my post. I never said people drive 100mph + all the time...lol.
I'm saying the A4 2.0T is very fast for 0-60mph and 1/4 mile ET because it has a dedicated launch control system, as well as a fast shifting DCT.
A4: 5.2s
TLX AWD: 5.8s
Now, let's have a look at 5-60mph, where there's no launch control system involved. You just get the car up to 5mph, then smash the gas pedal:
A4: 6.0s
TLX: 6.2s
Without the launch control system, you can easily easy how the gap is much smaller. The fast shifting DCT still plays a role though. We don't need to get to 100mph to prove anything. The 5-60mph already shows enough.
Now, when we get to higher speeds, say 0-120mph, we have the following:
A4: 21.9s
TLX 21.7s
No one in their right mind will be driving 120mph on public roads in the US. But the point here is that, with just 0.2s difference, these figures show the A4 and TLX are pretty similar when it comes to acceleration. Stock vs stock, unless you are actually racing each other with the launch control system on, it's really a driver's race. Whoever steps on the gas first would win.
For NA vs turbo, it comes down to your preference. It's definitely cheaper to get a nice boost of power with a turbocharged engine. On the other hand, a V6 engine is inherently be smoother, refined, and more premium. This is why there are some upset people over at temple of vtec forum - the new Accord might no longer have a V6. Instead, the V6 could be replaced by the 2.0T. We all know how poweful that 2.0T is, and people are getting 400whp easily with it. But there's no denying that the J35 is one smooth and sweet sounding engine despite its age.
For me, I'd go with a boosted V6 for the best of both worlds - V6 sound quality and smoothness + potential for more power
2. Audi does limit the power of the A4, so it does not step on the toes of the S4. You think it's magic that Honda squeezes 316hp out of a 2.0T, or Mercedes squeezes 380hp out of a 2.0T? Audi can do the same but chooses to keep a wide margin of separation in its line up.
3. Your argument of 2.0T vs V6 is the same as anyone's argument wanting a 6MT. Sadly, both the V6 and 6MT are going the way of the dinosaurs, and whether you choose to admit it or not, there's a reason for it. Hey, I'm still in denial about 6MTs. I won't hold it against you for wanting a V6.
either way, thanks for confirming the 2.0T is faster, except when pushed to the limit. At those speeds, you're in top gear and getting high in the RPM band, meaning torque is starting to drop and only HP continues to climb. As is obvious, the V6 makes 40hp more and so has the more grunt to move the TLX 0.2s faster, up to 120mph.
05-19-2017, 05:11 PM
#90
Banned
05-19-2017, 05:19 PM
#91
Team Owner
That's his opinion. My opinion is it doesn't matter. Everyone has an opinion.
Judging by the number of people buying A4s vs people buying V6 TLXs, I'd say peoples opinions on turbos are changing, and rather quickly, at that.
Judging by the number of people buying A4s vs people buying V6 TLXs, I'd say peoples opinions on turbos are changing, and rather quickly, at that.
05-19-2017, 05:24 PM
#92
Banned
Now is a good time to remind that TOYOTA will introduce a new NA 3.5L in its 2018 Camry (and Lexii). Probably 300HP or more.
Lotus also use Toyota old 3.5L with success. No compromise.
Lotus also use Toyota old 3.5L with success. No compromise.
05-19-2017, 05:24 PM
#93
Poeple are buying more A4's than TLX's because the A4 is clearly the MUCH better car. Regardless of engine.
05-19-2017, 05:24 PM
#94
Azine Jabroni
This argument is disco. The 4 cylinder turbo is as refined as most production V6 models. There are better, more refined 6 cylinder models, but the Honda J35Y6 you can buy in the Honda Pilot and the Honda Odyssey is NOT that model.
05-19-2017, 05:26 PM
#95
05-19-2017, 05:29 PM
#96
Banned
05-19-2017, 05:31 PM
#98
Team Owner
Yeah that's a super nice interior. That picture doesn't do it justice. When you sit inside you just want to touch all the nice materials.
And I'm glad you post the interior with a manual transmission. How's acura doing on that? Then again, how is acura doing on reliable transmissions altogether?
And I'm glad you post the interior with a manual transmission. How's acura doing on that? Then again, how is acura doing on reliable transmissions altogether?
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05-19-2017, 05:36 PM
#100
Azine Jabroni
Give it a rest. You search the whole internet and that was clearly the only photo you found making the B9 A4 look ugly.
I'm sure Honda dumped boatloads of R&D money into the 2.0T JUST to put it in the Civic Type R. Are you serious?
05-19-2017, 05:41 PM
#101
Banned
This interior is actually very inspired of the A6 2012... *which I hated*. I was in a $90K S6 and couldn't believe that I wasn't in a economizer 2.0T...
Last edited by Saintor; 05-19-2017 at 05:43 PM.
05-19-2017, 05:43 PM
#102
Banned
05-19-2017, 05:46 PM
#103
I'm pretty sure it's practically verified somewhere on here. Oh and that Toyota V6 ypu were talking about makes more power and is more modern that the dinosaur in your "premium" TLX. A camry makes more power than your "sports" sedan. Ouch!
Thank you. He's trying so hard to find a picture that makes it look bad. I see a sick digital dash in that pic. Looks cool to me.
05-19-2017, 05:50 PM
#104
Team Owner
I love the "tacked on ipad".
I know plenty of people don't. But I do. I've liked them since day one on pretty much every car that had it.
I know plenty of people don't. But I do. I've liked them since day one on pretty much every car that had it.
05-19-2017, 05:53 PM
#105
Team Owner
Part of why that Audi interior looks bad is because it is light grey. Even Acuras with a light grey interior look awful. It just makes an otherwise beautiful interior look so drab.
But when in black, oh man, so much nicer. The 3G TL was the same. I couldn't stand the light grey interior some people had. The black interior always looks so much more luxurious.
Again, Saintor isn't comparing apples to apples. A black TLX interior vs a black A4 interior is a different story altogether.
But when in black, oh man, so much nicer. The 3G TL was the same. I couldn't stand the light grey interior some people had. The black interior always looks so much more luxurious.
Again, Saintor isn't comparing apples to apples. A black TLX interior vs a black A4 interior is a different story altogether.
05-19-2017, 06:00 PM
#106
Banned
Part of why that Audi interior looks bad is because it is bad. None of A4 2017+ let me a positive impression. Actually I even prefer the GTI/GLI interiors.
Last edited by Saintor; 05-19-2017 at 06:12 PM.
05-19-2017, 06:26 PM
#107
Team Owner
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05-19-2017, 06:31 PM
#108
Team Owner
whether you like it or not, "iPads" are here to stay and it is just a matter of time before Honda/Acura joins the club (if they were smart).
Acura is the follower now, not the leaders.
Acura is the follower now, not the leaders.
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05-19-2017, 07:03 PM
#109
05-19-2017, 08:44 PM
#110
Suzuka Master
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either way, thanks for confirming the 2.0T is faster, except when pushed to the limit. At those speeds, you're in top gear and getting high in the RPM band, meaning torque is starting to drop and only HP continues to climb. As is obvious, the V6 makes 40hp more and so has the more grunt to move the TLX 0.2s faster, up to 120mph.
Turbos/Superchargers + DCT = the winner vs N/A + 6MT.
05-19-2017, 08:50 PM
#111
Banned
In most useable driving speeds torque wins every time.
Available horsepower/lbs is the one you need. At any speed.
Last edited by Saintor; 05-19-2017 at 08:53 PM.
05-19-2017, 09:58 PM
#112
Suzuka Master
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On turbos the last major holdouts Honda & Toyota are already dipping their toes in the water. HONDA is up to their knees with the CIVIC & most likely Accord. Toyota is in to its ankles with the small turbo cars in Japan. Next N/A might be the last one for them. Right now the need displacement to move the Camry but emissions & fuel economy targets will keep squeezing them till they have o drop displacement & boost for drivability. Good guess will be electric powered blowers.
Was also looking at the chart someone put up on can prices by C&D. had not idea there was that much overlap, its easy to see why other brands are stealing the TLX's lunch money.
The were king of the hill when they definitely undercut the other brands prices. With price parity its easy to see them loosing sales to the more recognized premium brands. The rough handling of the RLX for the past 10? years should have taught them they cannot go head to head on pricing with some of these brands.
Was also looking at the chart someone put up on can prices by C&D. had not idea there was that much overlap, its easy to see why other brands are stealing the TLX's lunch money.
The were king of the hill when they definitely undercut the other brands prices. With price parity its easy to see them loosing sales to the more recognized premium brands. The rough handling of the RLX for the past 10? years should have taught them they cannot go head to head on pricing with some of these brands.
05-19-2017, 10:13 PM
#113
Team Owner
I love my A4.
I'd be kicking myself if I'd settled for a TLX and then had this great car come out.
I'd be kicking myself if I'd settled for a TLX and then had this great car come out.
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05-19-2017, 10:17 PM
#114
Team Owner
05-19-2017, 10:23 PM
#115
Suzuka Master
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Maybe the BMW 330' 248BHP 5.4 to 60MPH against 5.7 for the 290BHP TLX - 1/4 mile 330 14@ 100MPHvs the TLX 14.3 @ 103mph. Torque got the BMW going & the TLX never caught up but it was going 3MPH faster at the finish. A little more distance & the TLX with more horsepower would have driven on by.
05-19-2017, 10:23 PM
#116
Banned
05-19-2017, 10:28 PM
#117
Team Owner
Clearly shows how little you know... what's even sadder is I posted that formula for you before and you obviously couldn't understand how it works.
Last edited by TacoBello; 05-19-2017 at 10:31 PM.
05-19-2017, 10:29 PM
#118
Team Owner
05-19-2017, 10:31 PM
#119
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And a serious dislike for cars that are more expensive or are perceived to or actually do outperform whatever he has bought at the time. Same story on all the forums.
Funny thing my oldest daughter has a car with double my 440's MSRP. Instead of finding fault & nit picking with it because its costs more than mine I am happy she has made such a great choice & has the income to easily afford it.
Funny thing my oldest daughter has a car with double my 440's MSRP. Instead of finding fault & nit picking with it because its costs more than mine I am happy she has made such a great choice & has the income to easily afford it.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 05-19-2017 at 10:36 PM.
05-19-2017, 10:37 PM
#120
Banned
And a serious dislike for cars that are more expensive or are perceived to or actually do outperform whatever he has bought at the time. Same story on all the forums.
Funny thing my oldest daughter has a car with double my 440's MSRP. Instead of finding fault & nit picking with it because its costs more than mine I am happy she has made such a great choice & has the income to easily afford it.
Funny thing my oldest daughter has a car with double my 440's MSRP. Instead of finding fault & nit picking with it because its costs more than mine I am happy she has made such a great choice & has the income to easily afford it.
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