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Acura vs Lexus...and reliability?

 
Old 02-15-2019, 07:29 AM
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Tardym should get credit for posting the information here, but if you don't want to click the link, it shows Honda in the middle of the pack for dependability and Acura almost at the bottom at 26. Mind you, this 26 rating is hanging out along with the likes of Land Rover (a notoriously and overwhelmingly poor reliability brand for 20+ years) and RAM, Dodge and Fiat, which comprise the Fiat/Chrysler Group FCA, who have been nothing short of abominable in essentially every single reliability/dependability survey and measurable metric researched by any publication or quality group over the last 6 years.

So why did I buy my TLX? I thought all those studies were wrong and Acura would never produce such unreliable vehicles. After my experience, I was wrong and they were right.

Originally Posted by CPR View Post
Since '98, have leased 7 Acura's; 2 CL's, 3 TL's, & 2 TLX's; 5 with SH-AWD
Only real concern, was the "bum" 9 speed ZF tranny, in my 2015 TLX; (which after many complaints, was replaced, free of charge)
For 20+ year's of reliability, that's pretty damn good
Case closed
I'll just point out the obvious here that you indicated you don't drive cars longer than 3 years old and you don't drive them further than 36k miles (maybe you did with a mileage surcharge). It should surprise no one that you experienced few issues driving brand new Acuras every third year, especially during that period in which they were considered remarkably reliable. Many people buy used or CPO and associate reliability with any issues up to 5yrs/60k (powertrain warranty period) or even 10yrs/100k and beyond, for which it appears you have no applicable experience.

Research on "reliability" can be found here. It's the ability of a system to function under stated conditions for a specified period of time. If anyone reading this right now spends a little time reading feedback from owners and researching TSBs available on this forum, they will find that the TLX is far from that. Look at the TSB list for starters. These are basically an admittance of a generally universal and underlying issue. With the TLX, there are/were numerous customer issues documented and TSBs issued with transmissions, vibrations, electronic gadgets/gizmos and squeaks/rattles. On this forum, there are lessees who couldn't wait to give back their TLX after the lease, and there are buyers who took baths trading in their new TLXs for huge losses ($thousands$). TLX resale value is awful in light of these issues. In 20 years of car ownership, I've never given thought to how my transmission shifts, how my steering wheel shakes on the expressway, how my engine squeaks, or how my door seal pops until my TLX. I wanted to let your post slide, but the "case closed" part sounded so absolute and pompous that I had to clarify how misleading it was for anyone who read it.

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Old 02-15-2019, 05:23 PM
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I've owned a '15 TLX for 10K miles so a short timeframe but to report thus far.....The shifting on the 8 speed when cold is a bit jerky but smooths out quickly after a minutes or two driving, it's somewhat annoying but not a huge deal. I had the clutch relearn done and things are better but not perfect, again, only when car is cold (40 degrees and below).

Otherwise I really like the 4 cyl / DCT combo, lightning quick and smooth shifts. I don't have any rattles to complain about maybe I got a good one or maybe they haven't shown up yet. I am however thinking to sell the car due to not fitting great in it (6'2" big guy) but that's an entirely different story. It's just a bit small for me and something I didn't realize on the test drive but found out after spending some time in it.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:55 PM
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Get an RLX...
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fiatlux View Post
One additional data point to consider; Consumer Reports has the Lexus IS in the top 10 of cars that owners are least satisfied with: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...-satisfaction/. Keep in mind that the IS is already 6 years old and the Lexus Enform infotainment system is arguably worse than the Acura infotainment system, which is saying a lot.

Interesting note; the ILX is still at the top of that list (and for good reason).
The ILX is, after all, nothing more than a glorified Civic.
.
.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:34 PM
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:23 PM
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A recent article about JD Powers:
"no weighting assigned to the problems reported in the survey. And that still appears to be the case. Therefore, a problem with an infotainment system or a loose piece of trim is deemed as serious as a blown engine or leaky transmission. (And yes, infotainment is still the biggest problem across the board.) If the categories of problems were weighted, you'd see a different picture."

Honda scores very poorly as well but I don't hear people that own them saying they are unreliable. Surveys like JD powers would not have me running out to by a mercedes, audi, chevy or any of the other "more reliable" cars. My own experience has been Acura both my 2017 RDX/TLX and 2018 TLX have been 100% problem free as have prior Acura's over long periods of ownership. Could the trans shift better or infotainment be better? Yes, but that's nothing that putting the car in the shop. Just not as good as it could be.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:29 AM
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I've owned alot of Acura's and Hondas and even a Lexus ES300 but once I got my 2007 GS350, I knew that Acura was behind Lexus in every way. I purchased that GS with 120K on the ODO and it was in perfect condition. 170K on it now and it still rides like a dream. I've only done fluid changes and brake pads on the car (aside from lowering and adding new wheels). I now also own a 2018 GS350 F Sport and that car is leaps and bounds ahead of anything I've ever had from Acura in fit, finish, and quality. I'm still anxiously awaiting a proper turbocharged Acura just to appease my inner fanboy but Lexus quality and reliability is no myth.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by EL19 View Post
I've owned alot of Acura's and Hondas and even a Lexus ES300 but once I got my 2007 GS350, I knew that Acura was behind Lexus in every way. I purchased that GS with 120K on the ODO and it was in perfect condition. 170K on it now and it still rides like a dream. I've only done fluid changes and brake pads on the car (aside from lowering and adding new wheels). I now also own a 2018 GS350 F Sport and that car is leaps and bounds ahead of anything I've ever had from Acura in fit, finish, and quality. I'm still anxiously awaiting a proper turbocharged Acura just to appease my inner fanboy but Lexus quality and reliability is no myth.
You know, that's kind of the same experience I've had with older high mileage Lexuses (Lexi?). My parents have an 11 year old ES350 with 200K miles on it, and it still feels just as solid, smooth, and refined as it did on day one. I've driven higher mileage Acura TLs and those just felt tired and used, with rattles, random squeaks, etc.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fiatlux View Post
You know, that's kind of the same experience I've had with older high mileage Lexuses (Lexi?). My parents have an 11 year old ES350 with 200K miles on it, and it still feels just as solid, smooth, and refined as it did on day one. I've driven higher mileage Acura TLs and those just felt tired and used, with rattles, random squeaks, etc.
Strange right? I've had some high mileage Honda/Acuras as well and while they were mechanically reliable, I was always changing mounts and tracking down "loose" parts.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by EL19 View Post
I've owned alot of Acura's and Hondas and even a Lexus ES300 but once I got my 2007 GS350, I knew that Acura was behind Lexus in every way. I purchased that GS with 120K on the ODO and it was in perfect condition. 170K on it now and it still rides like a dream. I've only done fluid changes and brake pads on the car (aside from lowering and adding new wheels). I now also own a 2018 GS350 F Sport and that car is leaps and bounds ahead of anything I've ever had from Acura in fit, finish, and quality. I'm still anxiously awaiting a proper turbocharged Acura just to appease my inner fanboy but Lexus quality and reliability is no myth.
Had a 2007 type S TL for 10 years, other than an HFL module going bad nothing but regular maintenance. Have had 5 Acura's since 2007 (across my family) and no problems. I do recall when I was looking at lexus back in 2007 and went for a test drive it honestly rode like a corolla. I don't recall the model, probably a low level but that was my impression at the time. Acura for cost and value in 2007 was way better value for the dollar, that's just one opinion.

Then again the only car I kept that was pushing 200k was a BMW and that was rock solid (but years back).

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Old 02-22-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jhb31 View Post
Had a 2007 type S TL for 10 years, other than an HFL module going bad nothing but regular maintenance. Have had 5 Acura's since 2007 (across my family) and no problems. I do recall when I was looking at lexus back in 2007 and went for a test drive it honestly rode like a corolla. I don't recall the model, probably a low level but that was my impression at the time. Acura for cost and value in 2007 was way better value for the dollar, that's just one opinion.

Then again the only car I kept that was pushing 200k was a BMW and that was rock solid (but years back).

You likely test drove and ES, which honestly still drives like a marshmallow
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jhb31 View Post
A recent article about JD Powers:
"no weighting assigned to the problems reported in the survey. And that still appears to be the case. Therefore, a problem with an infotainment system or a loose piece of trim is deemed as serious as a blown engine or leaky transmission. (And yes, infotainment is still the biggest problem across the board.) If the categories of problems were weighted, you'd see a different picture."

Honda scores very poorly as well but I don't hear people that own them saying they are unreliable. Surveys like JD powers would not have me running out to by a mercedes, audi, chevy or any of the other "more reliable" cars. My own experience has been Acura both my 2017 RDX/TLX and 2018 TLX have been 100% problem free as have prior Acura's over long periods of ownership. Could the trans shift better or infotainment be better? Yes, but that's nothing that putting the car in the shop. Just not as good as it could be.
I would consider it as a Bitch Sheet. Acura's problem is not what the items are its that its been at the bottom of the list for a number of years running now. If people are bitching who own the car its a major hit on word of mouth perception regardless of how serious the problem is.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:35 PM
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I’ll just leave this right here. Saw it on my feed a couple times over the last couple weeks. I’m fixing to stop debating this topic after this post. The fact is Acura is at the bottom of all sorts of lists because of people like me, Tardym, 1Louder and dozens of others who hate/hated their TLX, some enough to give up hope for fixes and trade theirs in. I’m not making this stuff up. Go read the 65-page Hard Shift 2-3 thread and see how many people (at least 10) ditched their TLX for that reason for Audi and Lexus. Go read either of the two 9+ page 70-80mph Vibration threads and see how Acura lost another 10 customers for life. Real owners documenting severe problems that aren’t “infotainment complaints” like fanboys such as jhb31 (who drives a one year old 2018 TLX and proclaims it’s 100% reliable - LOL) suggest. I’d be curious the source of that article criticizing JD Power which he referenced. People are all over this forum are screaming aloud that their TLXs are the MOST UNRELIABLE ACURA THEY HAVE EVER PURCHASED. But the fanboys here are completely dismissive. Hopefully people doing legitimate research here can sift through that BS.

Our cars vibrate on the expressway and shift/shifted hard enough to warrant a transmission replacement. Oh yeah, but JD Power and Kelley Blue Book have it all wrong. Car & Driver and Motor Trend don’t know what they’re saying when Lexus is year after year the lowest cost of ownership. This forum is incredibly biased in the positive direction for Acura - borderline delusional.




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Old 02-25-2019, 04:29 PM
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As mentioned ad nauseum, my 16 V6 PAWS was trouble free during my ownership. But if it makes you happy, you can assume Iím lying (or delusional) and call it a day. Bottom line is that some TLXs were problematic and a good number werenít. Dump it and get an ES350! Nothing wrong with moving on. A 2G version is right around the corner. Trashing the 1G at this point is just beating a dead horse.
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Old 02-25-2019, 10:22 PM
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So my father in law inherited an ES350 and having helped him fix many things I did not walk away impressed with Toyota / Lexus on this example. First was the melting / goo dash:

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...-lawsuit.shtml

Then the oil leak (requires engine removal to fix it):

https://us.lexusownersclub.com/forum...over-oil-leak/

Then the vibration caused by failing passenger side axle bearing:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...le-issues.html

All these issues on a well maintained, family owned from origin ES350 and while I'm not happy about the mediocre ratings of the Acura brand I really struggle to put them on par with a Range Rover and until they add weightings to this system I find it useless.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:09 AM
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Did a quick KBB five year cost analysis of all the models I considered prior to getting my 19 TLX V6.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:27 AM
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Old 02-27-2019, 07:46 AM
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^ It's interesting how the Q50 has the least repair cost out of the group. While the ES gets second best in repair cost, it is also worth noting that the ES get second worst in terms of maintenance cost.
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:57 AM
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What were the purchase prices of the cars in the KBB list?
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
What were the purchase prices of the cars in the KBB list?
You could pull it from a search by the year/trim level shown.
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:35 PM
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A little range topper action (RS400/M3/S4 excluded)
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:35 AM
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@F23A4: Solid analysis but this comes with no surprise. This is what Acura has been building its image on. Solid and reliable at reasonable price. After all these years, their prices are still okay but they are loosing out on the solid and reliable side. It comes down to how much people want to put up with the troubles for saving money.

In additional to that, German manufactures produced cheaper versions of their cars like the 320i, CLA, A3 with attractive lease deals.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by F23A4 View Post


You could pull it from a search by the year/trim level shown.
Not worth going through a full look up. Thought KBB would publish it as part of the analysis. Could be an interesting number since depreciation is usually the biggest hit on cost to own. Typically the higher the purchase price the bigger the raw depreciation dollar lost amount is. Its the built in luxury car tax.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:01 AM
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I've sold both Lexus and Acura, I drive an Acura.

The main difference is Lexus requires 3x the quality control steps as the Toyota products and the paint jobs are immaculate, they even ship the cars better protected. When I sold a Lexus it was perfect every time, and never had a callback as far as I can remember.

I've seen Acura's come in with hair under the body, panel issues etc. They don't seem to have any more QC than the Honda stuff...

Why do I drive the Acura? It's just more fun to drive, and I love the way the Honda engines sound and respond. I had my 2016 TLX for 40k miles with zero issues except oil changes. The Lexus cars are beautiful and very nice, they just don't drive or respond the way the Honda stuff does
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Old 04-09-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by metalrocker View Post
I've sold both Lexus and Acura, I drive an Acura.

The main difference is Lexus requires 3x the quality control steps as the Toyota products and the paint jobs are immaculate, they even ship the cars better protected. When I sold a Lexus it was perfect every time, and never had a callback as far as I can remember.

I've seen Acura's come in with hair under the body, panel issues etc. They don't seem to have any more QC than the Honda stuff...

Why do I drive the Acura? It's just more fun to drive, and I love the way the Honda engines sound and respond. I had my 2016 TLX for 40k miles with zero issues except oil changes. The Lexus cars are beautiful and very nice, they just don't drive or respond the way the Honda stuff does
I will agree on your short feedback... I've been with Acura now Lexus, thinking to go back to Acura if they offer by design I will like.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:16 AM
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While we're on the topic, kinda... I'm curious if anyone here has driven, say, a 2006-2009 IS250 or IS350... How does the steering feel? Is it tight and persice? Or does it wobble and have a giant dead spot like my Kia?


If the steering is good, or atlest, decent, I'd surely like to consider one one day.


I'm mainly cross shopping this with an older Accord or TSX... I know they are in totally different classes, but I feel they are both Touring style sedans...
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:28 AM
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I have driven my brother's 2009 IS350 RWD and I find the steering/cornering ability of the car being unsatisfactory or disappointing. The IS only has 19,000 kms and it is in brand new condition. I was expecting more to be honest. But, I should mention that it has winter tires at the moment with the back tires being only 225 wide. He will install new summer tires next Friday and will be back to the oem staggered setup. Maybe my impression will change after that.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by edmua6 View Post
I have driven my brother's 2009 IS350 RWD and I find the steering/cornering ability of the car being unsatisfactory or disappointing. The IS only has 19,000 kms and it is in brand new condition. I was expecting more to be honest. But, I should mention that it has winter tires at the moment with the back tires being only 225 wide. He will install new summer tires next Friday and will be back to the oem staggered setup. Maybe my impression will change after that.
OK. Thanks...


How is it, say conpared to an Accord or base TL of that 'era? Like, if you've driven one...
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by edmua6 View Post
I have driven my brother's 2009 IS350 RWD and I find the steering/cornering ability of the car being unsatisfactory or disappointing. The IS only has 19,000 kms and it is in brand new condition. I was expecting more to be honest. But, I should mention that it has winter tires at the moment with the back tires being only 225 wide. He will install new summer tires next Friday and will be back to the oem staggered setup. Maybe my impression will change after that.

The handling on the 2nd gen IS is atrocious with the stock sway bars.. Definitely need to upgrade to the F Sport one in the rear to really tighten things up.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:23 PM
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Consumer Reports is just one source for car reliability. You may also want to look at True Delta (www.truedelta.com) for long term reliability data. Lexus, like Toyota, is probably the pinnacle of the industry in terms of reliability. However, Honda/Acura is well above average like most of the other Asian brands.

I am a longer term Acura owner like several other posters on this thread - 4 vehicles over the last 17 years with a combined total of about 400k miles. I can only think of one or two "repairs" that had to be performed, everything else was maintenance. I question the reliability of Consumer Reports reliability data, pun intended. It is inconsistent with every other report I have seen regarding Honda/Acura.

Lexus makes fine cars. They tend to be slightly biased toward comfort and luxury, than sport and performance though the GS and, to a lesser degree, the IS. are more sport oriented. My personal opinion is to purchase the car that appeals to you the most since either brand will most likely provide reliable service for an extended period of time.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
The handling on the 2nd gen IS is atrocious with the stock sway bars.. Definitely need to upgrade to the F Sport one in the rear to really tighten things up.
But isn't that super easy to do, right?
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