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Acura TLX vs Audi A6 2.0T Quattro

 
Old 07-01-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Kind of apples to oranges but with the Corvette C8 about to reveal you can get a brand new C7 Corvette for $44.000. If I was a one car household with no kids between a TLX & the Stingray for almost the same money I would be very sorely tempted. With 15CuFt of cargo space the coupe can make a Costco run.
I look at the Corvettes, and I think how sad it is that most of us have to wait until we are old to buy them.

My TLX cost $10,000 less than the $44,000 Corvette you mention, and, I have two kids - my wife has a car she drives to work and this is my "daily driver" which needs to be a good choice for: groceries, taking kids to school, driving around kids + friends + family members, and, taking the family on long road trips.

The Toyota Sienna had adequate, somewhat satisfying performance from it's V6 engine - certainly wouldn't think of taking it to "track day" other than as a joke, but it is FANTASTIC as a "family vehicle". I'm almost disappointed that we traded in the Sienna and got the TLX, but, features like Lane Keep Assist and a more advanced Adaptive Cruise Control and superior Blind Spot Monitoring make the long drives lower stress while the drying dynamics of the TLX are just enough to be fun to me, to bring a smile to my face, particularly when I'm in the car by myself. It may be unsatisfying to you folks who have cars like Porsche Boxers, or fun little two seat roadsters, etc. But for me, I couldn't afford a BMW "M" car, or Audi "RS", so about the only other cars which would have been worth considering would be the Kia Stinger, or a Genesis. From what I could tell, the Infiniti Q50 was just too disappointing in terms of the feel of both the steering and the suspension, but that may have been addressed in recent models?
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
This thread might not be ideal, but it does make a lot of sense. I have both cars and I want to compare them - if someone else were in a similar situation, I would absolutely want them to do the same and share their experience here as I have done! More threads like this is far better than less threads like this!

Yes, this is not the latest and best Audi has to offer, and yes, they have some very nice offerings with far more performance that leave the TLX behind (like the RS3), but, they are quite expensive at around double the price, or more, than the TLX.

Actually, what I'm saying is: it seems almost silly to find a $50,000 German "near luxury" Sedan with this weak of an engine used in a car this heavy. The 2.0T engine makes sense for the A4, but not the A6. Yes, it is fine for some people, but even those people who were not trying to buy a "sports sedan" probably often like knowing that the excess power is there, if they did for some reason wish to use it.

I like the TLX but the area where I am most disappointed is in it not really living up to the "Precision Performance" claim. The $15,000 more expensive A6 2.0T Quattro is significantly less satisfying from a "driving enthusiast" perspective.
I like comparo shootouts and think everyone gains from a nice pros/cons thread once in a while. But in following this one, you don't really make a great point. Car & Driver certainly wouldn't write things like "it uses fake wood trim compared to the others that also use fake wood trim" or "you have to hold the seat memory button to get to its position" as flaws. Driving experience, power, handling, fit and finish - yeah. But to say "I'm not sure why someone would spend $15k more on this than that" isn't really making a case or even a legitimate comparison. I wouldn't start a thread about how I wish I had an Audi because quattro sounds cooler than super handling all-wheel drive. Arguing about preferences or perception is not really effective.

The fact is that some people have the means and choose to spend that much more - for whatever reason. The TLX is tremendous bang-for-the-buck. Acura excels at that compared to their competition. Historically, they also excelled at reliability compared to their competition. There is a premium feel to driving MB, Audi and BMW. I don't mean the C or A3 or 1 series. I mean the A6 or A8, 5 or 7 series, or E or S class you can't find anywhere else (maybe the Lexus LS).

I thought I would chime in because of your last statement. Any real "driving enthusiast" isn't in a 2.0T quattro A6. They're in a Porsche, S4, RS7, M3, M5, or AMG, which <insert laugh here> I mean, are so far above the TLX that I don't even need to say it. But so are their price tags. The car you're driving is an entry-level base-model Audi - a poseur for what Audi can do. No different than ripping a TLX 2.4 FWD Base based on the driving experience of a TLX V6 SH-AWD ASpec. Base models exist for people who don't care or can't afford more. No reason to judge people who can afford to drive Euros. The rest of us are more budget conscious - and our TLXs show it.

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Old 07-01-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Kind of apples to oranges but with the Corvette C8 about to reveal you can get a brand new C7 Corvette for $44.000. If I was a one car household with no kids between a TLX & the Stingray for almost the same money I would be very sorely tempted. With 15CuFt of cargo space the coupe can make a Costco run.
My TLX V6 PAWS was effectively $30k. If I could get a C7 for that price, Id squeeze my two little kids into the cargo area and call it a day.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:12 PM
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Do the Lamborghini Huracan next, OP!
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by someguy11 View Post
I like comparo shootouts and think everyone gains from a nice pros/cons thread once in a while. But in following this one, you don't really make a great point. Car & Driver certainly wouldn't write things like "it uses fake wood trim compared to the others that also use fake wood trim" or "you have to hold the seat memory button to get to its position" as flaws. Driving experience, power, handling, fit and finish - yeah. But to say "I'm not sure why someone would spend $15k more on this than that" isn't really making a case or even a legitimate comparison. I wouldn't start a thread about how I wish I had an Audi because quattro sounds cooler than super handling all-wheel drive. Arguing about preferences or perception is not really effective.

The fact is that some people have the means and choose to spend that much more - for whatever reason. The TLX is tremendous bang-for-the-buck. Acura excels at that compared to their competition. Historically, they also excelled at reliability compared to their competition. There is a premium feel to driving MB, Audi and BMW. I don't mean the C or A3 or 1 series. I mean the A6 or A8, 5 or 7 series, or E or S class you can't find anywhere else (maybe the Lexus LS).

I thought I would chime in because of your last statement. Any real "driving enthusiast" isn't in a 2.0T quattro A6. They're in a Porsche, S4, RS7, M3, M5, or AMG, which <insert laugh here> I mean, are so far above the TLX that I don't even need to say it. But so are their price tags. The car you're driving is an entry-level base-model Audi - a poseur for what Audi can do. No different than ripping a TLX 2.4 FWD Base based on the driving experience of a TLX V6 SH-AWD ASpec. Base models exist for people who don't care or can't afford more. No reason to judge people who can afford to drive Euros. The rest of us are more budget conscious - and our TLXs show it.
Yes, that's right, now that I've had a chance to spend time with the A6 2.0T I agree with you calling it the "poseur's Audi".

But, it is a common theme that the Acura TLX is "what you get if you want a kinda luxury car and you can't afford BMW/Mercedes/Audi" and I'm saying, hold on, I'm trying both and maybe they're wrong!

And here's why: in terms of things I notice in day-to-day use, including many different categories which are important to me: how do I like the look of the car on the outside, how comfortable is the car inside, and how does it make me feel to be in the car, when operating and using features such as the media/nav system, the heating/cooling, the seats, the sunroof, what "feels right" and what annoyances just get under my skin?

I think a BIG part of the "phbtttt (raspberry tongue) my Audi is better than your Acura" is just like if someone pays more for a bottle of wine, they'll likely think that it's better while they're drinking it, even if they would have actually liked it less in an unbiased blind test. Sure, particularly with the latest Audi's the way they moved the Nav screen map to the middle of the console gauge cluster is FANTASTIC and beautiful. But, me pointing out these little annoyances I'm finding in the Audi are totally legitimate points!

I think I could make a detailed video and go over every aspect with a fine tooth comb giving explanations at ever step and fairly, have the TLX come out as the winner in this comparison. But, yes, to your other point: if I had over $50 K to spend, I could indeed find a German (or perhaps even Korean) car that I like better than my TLX.

I can't wait to experience Acura's next gen multimedia/NAV system in the next generation TLX - I'm assuming it will still be behind the current Audi one in some areas, but I think it will be pretty good anyway?
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
Do the Lamborghini Huracan next, OP!
I love that idea, care to loan me one for a week? I've vaguely looked into renting a car like that - would probably be just for one day though.

For driving around town, getting groceries, taking family road trips, and maybe, just maybe, for gas miliage, the TLX probably still wins - but, unlike the A6 2.0T, the Huracan would totally blow away the TLX in terms of driving excitement! We'll probably get the peanut gallery chiming in with "those two cars are not in the same class" again though, I expect?
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by F23A4 View Post
My TLX V6 PAWS was effectively $30k. If I could get a C7 for that price, I’d squeeze my two little kids into the cargo area and call it a day.
Hard to find a better price than that for a car which is as satisfying, and both practical and fun for any type of family guy to use as their main daily driver. Sure, Accord is close, and comes out slightly on top for value, but it kind of depends on how much the quiet interior, exterior appearance, and a few other details you get with the Acura are worth to you.

I kind of wish I had gone with the Accords Sport MT, but then, if I'd gotten that, of course I would have wondered how much more I would have appreciated the Acura TLX for those 7 - 9 hour drives I take to the East Coast - I drive from Ohio to places like NYC, Baltimore, North Caroline (Outer Banks), etc, and plan to keep taking more road trips like that.

F23A4 - do you drive just you around in your TLX, or are you carrying kids etc.? I'm not saying it's a bad choice for the single guy/guy without kids, to drive to work every day, but if that were my situation, I probably would have spent more time considering other options - like maybe a Miata.
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Old 07-01-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Kind of apples to oranges but with the Corvette C8 about to reveal you can get a brand new C7 Corvette for $44.000. If I was a one car household with no kids between a TLX & the Stingray for almost the same money I would be very sorely tempted. With 15CuFt of cargo space the coupe can make a Costco run.
Frankly that it's an orange to zucchini comparison....you definitely do not need to bother the Corvette to find practical cars with more bang for the back value and enjoyment factor compared to the TLX IMHO....
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Old 07-01-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
Do the Lamborghini Huracan next, OP!
Guys on the Corvette forum are doing exactly that renting Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren & comparing them to what they expect the new mid engine C8 will be like. Then again a lot of the guys already own them & are looking to the StingRay as their bad weather day car. Nice to be in the 1% when you like cars.

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Old 07-01-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
Hard to find a better price than that for a car which is as satisfying, and both practical and fun for any type of family guy to use as their main daily driver. Sure, Accord is close, and comes out slightly on top for value, but it kind of depends on how much the quiet interior, exterior appearance, and a few other details you get with the Acura are worth to you.

I kind of wish I had gone with the Accords Sport MT, but then, if I'd gotten that, of course I would have wondered how much more I would have appreciated the Acura TLX for those 7 - 9 hour drives I take to the East Coast - I drive from Ohio to places like NYC, Baltimore, North Caroline (Outer Banks), etc, and plan to keep taking more road trips like that.

F23A4 - do you drive just you around in your TLX, or are you carrying kids etc.? I'm not saying it's a bad choice for the single guy/guy without kids, to drive to work every day, but if that were my situation, I probably would have spent more time considering other options - like maybe a Miata.

I guess my humor was lost in my last post. That said, Ill take that as a rhetorical question.
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by F23A4 View Post
I guess my humor was lost in my last post. That said, Ill take that as a rhetorical question.
Well, I wasn't certain you were joking about the kids in the cargo space, but I thought you might be.

With two kids in the equation, about the only other car I can imagine that you would get as much satisfaction from ownership/daily use, for $30K or less would be the VW GTi? Of course the choices could expand a lot if you were also considering a used car and you got a good deal (not one of those ones where the two year old cars are selling with no discount!).
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:59 PM
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Well, I'm off on an 8 hour drive w/the Audi A6 tomorrow, will glean insight into how I like it on long trips.

Let's hope I don't get pulled over by these guys ->

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Old 07-02-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
But, it is a common theme that the Acura TLX is "what you get if you want a kinda luxury car and you can't afford BMW/Mercedes/Audi" and I'm saying, hold on, I'm trying both and maybe they're wrong!

I think a BIG part of the "phbtttt (raspberry tongue) my Audi is better than your Acura" is just like if someone pays more for a bottle of wine, they'll likely think that it's better while they're drinking it, even if they would have actually liked it less in an unbiased blind test. Sure, particularly with the latest Audi's the way they moved the Nav screen map to the middle of the console gauge cluster is FANTASTIC and beautiful. But, me pointing out these little annoyances I'm finding in the Audi are totally legitimate points!
I hear ya. I think you're trying to convince the world that spending more on the Audi doesn't get you a better car. That flies in the face of pretty much common knowledge, general consensus (from those who have owned both), professional drivers/critics, magazines and comparisons/reviews. Publications, as noted elsewhere on this forum, have even stopped including Acura in Euro comparisons because they can't compete or fell out of the class altogether. Even few, if any, members here on an Acura forum agree with you. People don't spend more to think they drive a superior car. They spend money to drive a superior car. Which Euros are. They have practically perfected drivetrain, handling, performance, comfort and technology. The only thing they haven't perfected is reliability. After that warranty expires, be prepared to shell out thousands for repairs. I've been there, done that. To me, those costs aren't worth the superior driving experience. By the way, as I said, you're basing your "Acura isn't inferior to the Euros like everyone says" on a base model A6 quattro 2.0T, ignoring that they also make a plethora of S and RS cars. That's like saying "Everyone makes better cars than the Americans" because you were assigned a Chevy Sonic loaner for a week, ignoring that they also make SHOs and Corvettes. You are and will continue having a very difficult time convincing anyone that your Acura V6 is up to par with BMW, Audi, MB or Porsche.

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Old 07-02-2019, 12:13 PM
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This thread is more bloated than an episode of my 600lb life. 😀
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:33 PM
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End of the day people are voting with their wallets. When I bought my TL in 2006 I joint 78,347 other people. Compared to 2006 last year 40,888 chose not to buy one & went elsewhere. Based on the posts Audi did very well in conquest sales against Acura owners, maybe better then other makes did. Personally not a great AUDI fan prefer BMW. That said they must have seen something to cause them to open their wallets further then before, no point in beating a dead horse over what we think cause it. Fact is it did happen.

Time to button this thread up as its now a circular debate.
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
End of the day people are voting with their wallets. When I bought my TL in 2006 I joint 78,347 other people. Compared to 2006 last year 40,888 chose not to buy one & went elsewhere.
To be fair, in 2006 the SUV mania was just starting but it is a very good point....and the TLX had an entry level 4 cylinder version (basically the TSX part of the equation) that the 3G and 4G did not have to push sales....I wonder how many V6 TLX have been sold.

Based on the posts Audi did very well in conquest sales against Acura owners
Absolutely true, Audi went to town with Acura owners at least here in the northwest....several cases just in my circle of acquaintances/neighbors.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 4G-Lover View Post
To be fair, in 2006 the SUV mania was just starting but it is a very good point....and the TLX had an entry level 4 cylinder version (basically the TSX part of the equation) that the 3G and 4G did not have to push sales....I wonder how many V6 TLX have been sold.



Absolutely true, Audi went to town with Acura owners at least here in the northwest....several cases just in my circle of acquaintances/neighbors.
Could also be an age thing; back in the 2000s Acura owners tended to be younger (mostly because the cars like the RSX and TSX were cheaper). These days, fewer and fewer young people are buying cars, so it's no wonder this end of the market is drying up. The folks in my social network that used to be Acura owners are now driving Audis and MB; those that used to be STI and Evo owners are now driving M3s and Porches. It's only natural to move up as your buying power increases.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:09 PM
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Would have been interesting to compare against latest A6 version to see how new MMI ( dual screens) and mild hybrid engines compare to current gen environment.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 4G-Lover View Post
To be fair, in 2006 the SUV mania was just starting but it is a very good point....and the TLX had an entry level 4 cylinder version (basically the TSX part of the equation) that the 3G and 4G did not have to push sales....I wonder how many V6 TLX have been sold.
Thing is the other brands in the general 2006 performance grouping did not lose over 50% of their sales in a single model year. Acura was hard hit before the SUV/Crossover boom really kicked in. They dropped 50%+ in one model year & never recovered where the other cars in the group saw a slow erosion in sedan sales over time.

BMW owes a lot to its entry level 4 cylinder turbo but they do turn in similar or better performance numbers to the 328/330CI 6 cylinder N/A cars they replaced. The 335/340/440 & new 382BHP 340 took it to a new level. They sell a lot more 330 4 Cylinder turbos then 6 cylinder 340/440 turbos.

A lot has been made they could not sell TL cars because of the tsunami but Acura management has said that was not the case as the cars were almost all USA sourced parts & not materially affected by the disaster in Japan. Regardless the Tsunami is now ancient history & hopefully Acura has broken the code with the 3.5 DOHC V6 development. A price/performance competitor on equal footing is in the best interest of all of us regardless of which car we choose.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Thing is the other brands in the general 2006 performance grouping did not lose over 50% of their sales in a single model year. Acura was hard hit before the SUV/Crossover boom really kicked in. They dropped 50%+ in one model year & never recovered where the other cars in the group saw a slow erosion in sedan sales over time.

BMW owes a lot to its entry level 4 cylinder turbo but they do turn in similar or better performance numbers to the 328/330CI 6 cylinder N/A cars they replaced. The 335/340/440 & new 382BHP 340 took it to a new level. They sell a lot more 330 4 Cylinder turbos then 6 cylinder 340/440 turbos.

A lot has been made they could not sell TL cars because of the tsunami but Acura management has said that was not the case as the cars were almost all USA sourced parts & not materially affected by the disaster in Japan. Regardless the Tsunami is now ancient history & hopefully Acura has broken the code with the 3.5 DOHC V6 development. A price/performance competitor on equal footing is in the best interest of all of us regardless of which car we choose.
BMW was already successful before the introduction of the turbo 4....the NA 6 cyl 328i and 528i were very popular, their FI 4 banger simply mimicked (or even improved) the same level of performance.....the TLX switching to a 4 cylinder NA as a base engine had significant performance reduction compared to the entry level V6 TL...it was a downmarket move.
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by someguy11 View Post
I hear ya. I think you're trying to convince the world that spending more on the Audi doesn't get you a better car. That flies in the face of pretty much common knowledge, general consensus (from those who have owned both), professional drivers/critics, magazines and comparisons/reviews. Publications, as noted elsewhere on this forum, have even stopped including Acura in Euro comparisons because they can't compete or fell out of the class altogether. Even few, if any, members here on an Acura forum agree with you. People don't spend more to think they drive a superior car. They spend money to drive a superior car. Which Euros are. They have practically perfected drivetrain, handling, performance, comfort and technology. The only thing they haven't perfected is reliability. After that warranty expires, be prepared to shell out thousands for repairs. I've been there, done that. To me, those costs aren't worth the superior driving experience. By the way, as I said, you're basing your "Acura isn't inferior to the Euros like everyone says" on a base model A6 quattro 2.0T, ignoring that they also make a plethora of S and RS cars. That's like saying "Everyone makes better cars than the Americans" because you were assigned a Chevy Sonic loaner for a week, ignoring that they also make SHOs and Corvettes. You are and will continue having a very difficult time convincing anyone that your Acura V6 is up to par with BMW, Audi, MB or Porsche.

I tend to generally agree on everything however there are instances of cars from different brands that punch above their price/segment level from time to time....unfortunately the TLX is not one of them.
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Old 07-03-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 4G-Lover View Post
I tend to generally agree on everything however there are instances of cars from different brands that punch above their price/segment level from time to time....unfortunately the TLX is not one of them.
FIXED I tend to generally agree on everything however there are instances of cars from different brands that punch above their price/segment level from time to time....unfortunately the TLX is not one of them since the Generation 3 TL was replaced.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
FIXED I tend to generally agree on everything however there are instances of cars from different brands that punch above their price/segment level from time to time....unfortunately the TLX is not one of them since the Generation 3 TL was replaced.
As you know, we agree to disagree...the 3G was not punching that particularly high either (better then the TLX for sure) it was just a very pretty, well executed FWD sport sedan....content wise (look is subjective) a much as you dislike it, the 4G did....with the RL, it was the beginning (waiting for the RWD dedicated platform, V8 and so on that never materialized) of the Tier 1 pushing effort from Acura....power, fit and finish, Torque Vectoring when it was a novelty, etc...it was the pinnacle of Acura sport sedan genealogy and I think that is not in doubt, bash the look all you want.

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Old 07-05-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 4G-Lover View Post
As you know, we agree to disagree...the 3G was not punching that particularly high either (better then the TLX for sure) it was just a very pretty, well executed FWD sport sedan....content wise (look is subjective) a much as you dislike it, the 4G did....with the RL, it was the beginning (waiting for the RWD dedicated platform, V8 and so on that never materialized) of the Tier 1 pushing effort from Acura....power, fit and finish, Torque Vectoring when it was a novelty, etc...it was the pinnacle of Acura sport sedan genealogy and I think that is not in doubt, bash the look all you want.
Yeah but disagreement over cars has existed as long as there have been cars. Fun stuff to debate.

So I disagree as I believe the car failed, lost 50% of the G3's customer base on day one & never recovered them. If it can't sell against its rivals its not punching above its weight. Finished 4th in most 4 way compares.

C/D TEST RESULTS AT:
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.6 sec
Standing -mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 125 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 178 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.86 g

FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 18/26 mpg
C/D observed: 21 mpg

Only the MT was on a par with the others in acceleration with maybe 2,000 units a year not much of a factor in creating a sporting image for the car.

C/D TEST RESULTS MT:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing -mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g


FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 17/25 mpg
C/D observed: 21 mpg

Agree the SHAWD was an excellent product, well ahead of its time. Problem was they took away the Brembo brakes & Summer tires & the differential by itself could not pick up all the slack. Would suggest as the MT was a pretty limited production item it could be fairly compared to the also small volume 2011/2013 335is that also came with a 6MT or 7DCT.

C/D TEST RESULTS 7DCT:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.4 sec
Zero to 140 mph: 25.7 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.0 sec
Standing -mile: 13.3 sec @ 108 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 148 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 169 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.93 g

FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 17/24 mpg
C/D observed: 17 mpg

3G performed with its rivals including the ZHP BMW's till the BMW went turbo with the 335 & was typically #1 or #2 in sales during its life cycle.

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Old 07-05-2019, 12:50 PM
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Well it certainly didn't help that the 4G TL had a front end that even a mother couldn't love, and a back end that looks like a squashed front end. Calling it ugly would be a huge understatement.

But maybe I'm biased, because I think the 3G TL (and especially the Type-S) was the best looking car Acura has ever built outside of the original NSX.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Yeah but disagreement over cars has existed as long as there have been cars. Fun stuff to debate.

So I disagree as I believe the car failed, lost 50% of the G3's customer base on day one & never recovered them. If it can't sell against its rivals its not punching above its weight. Finished 4th in most 4 way compares.
You are confusing "punching above its weight" specs, quality and performance wise with selling well, two very different things....again do not let your dislike of the car cloud your judgment...there are plenty of crappy cars that sell very well.....

Ended up last in comparos?? Read the reasoning, most was because of the look (mystery, the press, especially C&D initially liked the car then it decided it was not pretty..go figure) and the size...but at least the 4G was included in these comparos (with machinery such as the 335i and the S4) where the TLX never managed to be measured even against a lowly 320i af far as I know...

Do not forget the Automobile comparo between the 4G SH-AWD and the S4 on a track where the cars finished pretty much even......today you would not even put TLX and S4 in the same sentence....

From 3G to 4G the TL experienced a MSRP price rise, the worst recession since the great recession, a significant size increase (which for many was a negative) and yes, a polarizing look....the TLX went back to its original size, arrived in a much better economic environment and at a lower MRSP....and still I bet that the "TL part of the TLX", meaning the V6 and SH-AWD trims sold less than the 4G....too bad we will never know for sure....

To be fair I think the SUV craze has affected sales of the TLX compared to the glory days of the 3G but so the 4G was also in part affected by this....

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Old 07-06-2019, 02:02 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by dezymond View Post
Lastly, as for value, yes the Acura is a great value compared to the Euro big 3 and Lexus. However, Honda and Toyota have quickly caught up. So Acura is in this weird middle ground where you want just a bit more luxury in an Acura, but not so much where you're in Euro Big 3 and Lexus territory.
So... Time to check back in after taking a road trip for about a week and a solid 30+ additional hours of highway + city driving.

"not in the same league" (other posters were making this, or similar statements.

Yes, in terms of pleasure of use - how low stress, how comfortable to use for hours on the highway, how nice are the helpful features, how is the handling and performance, how responsive to my needs and desires is the car? Correct, they are not "in the same league", the Audi is not in the same league - the Acura has come out head-and-shoulders above the Audi. It's not even close.

Yes, the Audi feels like a quality well built machine (not that the Acura does not, IMO). Yes, it feels like a heavier car and I understand a person who is wealthier, and wants to feel like they are driving a more expensive vehicle the additional weight of the car along with the higher price, reputation, and actual quality can all contribute to the owner's satisfaction. And yes, I understand, the typical owner of this (Audi A6) car probably places less priority than I do on the factors like "road feedback through the steering wheel", "peppyness", or an over all "sporty" feel to the car - even with that in mind, The Audi simply does not pull ahead in any area beyond cost to compensate in areas where it falls behind. I'm talking about areas that are more significant than my nit-pick about "fake wood" - things like: LKAS, Blind Spot Monitoring, Active Cruise Control, side impact warning system integrated with the backup camera, smoother + faster acceleration, perforated leather seats, easier Android Auto control/integration with the car, lack of the hated auto engine off, audible beep with you press lock on the remote again, auto all windows down when you press and hold unlock on the remote, and probably a few other small things I'm forgetting at the moment - all added up to me really wanting to get back to my car.

Other things I learned from having this car: I will absolutely NEVER purchase a black car with black leather seats if the car will be used in the summer - UGH it was awful, so hot that it HURT to get in the car, several times on this trip. I know my car didn't come standard with Remote Start, but I would not be willing to pay for/own a car that's supposed to be "Premium", "Luxury" or "Near Luxury" without Remote Start. It's not just the ability to cool off my car or heat it up in advance, but I really like the two-way remote and how it confirms to me that the car is locked and the alarm is activated - I'm a fairly absent minded person and the ability to just press that "Lock" button again before bed, then seeing the green light flash on my remote telling me "Yes sir, your car is secure" gives me peace of mind. It was nice having a little extra room in the back (in the A6) so one of my front passengers could lay their seat all the way back and the back passenger could still lay down on the whole back seat (sideways). I also like the independent rear climate controls and knee height vents for the rear.

Originally Posted by 4G-Lover View Post
To be fair I think the SUV craze has affected sales of the TLX compared to the glory days of the 3G but so the 4G was also in part affected by this....
Absolutely - that is/was HUGE! And hugely upsetting IMO - I hate SUVs, in a sense, they are a symbol of all that's wrong with the world today.

EDIT: And yes, I know that a car like the Audi RS3 (or maybe even a 2020 S4?) would address basically all the shortcomings I found with the 2018 Audi A6 2.0T, but, the cost is almost DOUBLE what you can get a V6 engine Acura TLX for!?! I know the A6 cost $50,000, but, when considering everything including the features I got w/the "Technology Package" version of the TLX, the TLX is not just a better value, but a better overall car, even though it cost $15,000 less.

Last edited by Christopher.; 07-06-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
So... Time to check back in after taking a road trip for about a week and a solid 30+ additional hours of highway + city driving.

"not in the same league" (other posters were making this, or similar statements.

Yes, in terms of pleasure of use - how low stress, how comfortable to use for hours on the highway, how nice are the helpful features, how is the handling and performance, how responsive to my needs and desires is the car? Correct, they are not "in the same league", the Audi is not in the same league - the Acura has come out head-and-shoulders above the Audi. It's not even close.

Yes, the Audi feels like a quality well built machine (not that the Acura does not, IMO). Yes, it feels like a heavier car and I understand a person who is wealthier, and wants to feel like they are driving a more expensive vehicle the additional weight of the car along with the higher price, reputation, and actual quality can all contribute to the owner's satisfaction. And yes, I understand, the typical owner of this (Audi A6) car probably places less priority than I do on the factors like "road feedback through the steering wheel", "peppyness", or an over all "sporty" feel to the car - even with that in mind, The Audi simply does not pull ahead in any area beyond cost to compensate in areas where it falls behind. I'm talking about areas that are more significant than my nit-pick about "fake wood" - things like: LKAS, Blind Spot Monitoring, Active Cruise Control, side impact warning system integrated with the backup camera, smoother + faster acceleration, perforated leather seats, easier Android Auto control/integration with the car, lack of the hated auto engine off, audible beep with you press lock on the remote again, auto all windows down when you press and hold unlock on the remote, and probably a few other small things I'm forgetting at the moment - all added up to me really wanting to get back to my car.

Other things I learned from having this car: I will absolutely NEVER purchase a black car with black leather seats if the car will be used in the summer - UGH it was awful, so hot that it HURT to get in the car, several times on this trip. I know my car didn't come standard with Remote Start, but I would not be willing to pay for/own a car that's supposed to be "Premium", "Luxury" or "Near Luxury" without Remote Start. It's not just the ability to cool off my car or heat it up in advance, but I really like the two-way remote and how it confirms to me that the car is locked and the alarm is activated - I'm a fairly absent minded person and the ability to just press that "Lock" button again before bed, then seeing the green light flash on my remote telling me "Yes sir, your car is secure" gives me peace of mind. It was nice having a little extra room in the back (in the A6) so one of my front passengers could lay their seat all the way back and the back passenger could still lay down on the whole back seat (sideways). I also like the independent rear climate controls and knee height vents for the rear.


Absolutely - that is/was HUGE! And hugely upsetting IMO - I hate SUVs, in a sense, they are a symbol of all that's wrong with the world today.

EDIT: And yes, I know that a car like the Audi RS3 (or maybe even a 2020 S4?) would address basically all the shortcomings I found with the 2018 Audi A6 2.0T, but, the cost is almost DOUBLE what you can get a V6 engine Acura TLX for!?! I know the A6 cost $50,000, but, when considering everything including the features I got w/the "Technology Package" version of the TLX, the TLX is not just a better value, but a better overall car, even though it cost $15,000 less.

Where I could agree with some of what you said, you cannot compare a TLX with an Audi A6 2.0 from a sport sedan perspective...I definitely believe that on that point of view the TLX could be "better" in some regard (agility for example)..luxury? Not a chance...

However, today the alternative is not just the "big German trio"....if you think a TLX is a good bargain for a sport sedan, do yourself a favor and rent a Charger RT at your closest rental desk....from a sport sedan perspective, you will forget the TLX very quickly.....and we are not just talking about performance.....transmission (it uses the ZF 8 speed a real premium transmission used by cars costing a lot more), infotainment system, etc.....you can also get now a Nappa leather wrapped dashboard and upper door panes, so the Charger pulls ahead even in terms of "luxury"..the Charger optional sport seats are simply fantastic in comfort.

Do not trust American brands?? The Kia Stinger is a killer car (great warranty, gorgeous look, good quality) that put the TLX to shame.

When you put together all the pluses and minuses even the Fusion Sport pulls ahead of the TLX in value for the money IMHO
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 4G-Lover View Post
You are confusing "punching above its weight" specs, quality and performance wise with selling well, two very different things....again do not let your dislike of the car cloud your judgment...there are plenty of crappy cars that sell very well.....

Ended up last in comparos?? Read the reasoning, most was because of the look (mystery, the press, especially C&D initially liked the car then it decided it was not pretty..go figure) and the size...but at least the 4G was included in these comparos (with machinery such as the 335i and the S4) where the TLX never managed to be measured even against a lowly 320i af far as I know...

Do not forget the Automobile comparo between the 4G SH-AWD and the S4 on a track where the cars finished pretty much even......today you would not even put TLX and S4 in the same sentence....

From 3G to 4G the TL experienced a MSRP price rise, the worst recession since the great recession, a significant size increase (which for many was a negative) and yes, a polarizing look....the TLX went back to its original size, arrived in a much better economic environment and at a lower MRSP....and still I bet that the "TL part of the TLX", meaning the V6 and SH-AWD trims sold less than the 4G....too bad we will never know for sure....

To be fair I think the SUV craze has affected sales of the TLX compared to the glory days of the 3G but so the 4G was also in part affected by this....
Think it was Acura that was confused not me & pitching the car to a market that did not see it as a player. Never said I thought it was a bad car, FUGLY yes, but not mechanically or equipment wise was it a bad car, it was quite good overall. Also thought HONDA did not know what to do with it so it was marketed as a semi hot rod, after they took away the brakes & tires so it did not have the performance chops to run with the turbos or large displacement G37S, MB which were the hot rods of the segment. Neither did Audi with 211BHP.

Wish I had kept the reference but on its handling would agree under specific circumstances it could corner with the other cars. Only thing is the tests were set up with very tight low speed corners. Honda own handling revel at thrir location took a lot of social media abuse at the time.

Remember posting at the time under the same circumstance my Morgan +4SS could run with a B production Corvette till the course straightened out a little then I could watch him blow by.

In today's time frame its like my COBRA running a parking lot Auto-X against a Miata vs running one at a track based Auto-X.

Would agree its a better performance car then the TLX. IIRC in addition to killing the 6MT that added so much to the TL they also downgraded the internals in the SHAWD differential used in the TLX beside sadling it with the 9ZF.

Car had so much against it going into the current market they might have done better making a evolutionary change to the 3G body style loading it onto the 4G chassis with the 3G brake/tire options & selling that as the TLX.

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Old 07-06-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Think it was Acura that was confused not me & pitching the car to a market that did not see it as a player.
The press saw it as a player....you do not have to be the sales leader to be considered a player...would you not consider, for example, the Alfa Giulia a player even if it sells way below the market leaders??
At the end of the day the 4G up to 2012 sold low to mid 30K....exactly as the A4, the C Class sold in the 50K...only the 3 Series was a blowout (in the 90K) but at that time sales figures included the coupe and the Wagon versions.

Never said I thought it was a bad car, FUGLY yes, but not mechanically or equipment wise was it a bad car, it was quite good overall. Also thought HONDA did not know what to do with it so it was marketed as a semi hot rod, after they took away the brakes & tires so it did not have the performance chops to run with the turbos or large displacement G37S, MB which were the hot rods of the segment. Neither did Audi with 211BHP.
The 2009-2011 vintage actually had the performance tires option, Acura did take that away with the MY 2012+ refresh...and the brakes of the SH-AWD (or at least the manual SH-AWD) were bigger compared to the regular trim...the SH-AWD with performance tires was indeed the Type S of the 4G

in addition to killing the 6MT that added so much to the TL they also downgraded the internals in the SHAWD differential used in the TLX beside sadling it with the 9ZF.
Exactly on the SH-AWD...it has been gradually downgraded from the debut on the RL.....first they took out the acceleration device in the TL (from the RL) and on the TLX they took away the step-up gearing...SH-AWD does not mean always the same thing....similarly to Audi that sells under the Quattro label everything from just a glorified Haldex AWD system all the way to a crown gear with torque vectoring setup on the high end models...

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Old 07-07-2019, 01:50 AM
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I still feel the 4G 6-speed was a true performance sedan! And very rare, at that!

Who wants a 3-Series? Or even a C-Class?

They're toasters!!!



Atleast if you get an Acura, you'll be the only one with one...
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pyrodan007 View Post
Would have been interesting to compare against latest A6 version to see how new MMI ( dual screens) and mild hybrid engines compare to current gen environment.
Yes. The A6 I'm using (returning it on Monday) would be much better as a hybrid (if you can't disable the auto engine off).

And I could see that with a few improvements the Audi MMI could be way better than the 5G TLX's system. I'm really curious to try Acura's 6G TLX system though.

I found that the nav screen right in the middle of the gauge cluster was really cool at first, but, basically useless while actually using the car because I don't use the car's navigation system when Android Auto is available, and, I would not want a car without that feature. Once Audi let's the Android Auto nav map display on the Gauge Cluster I'll be sold on that feature being absolutely fantastic.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
Yes. The A6 I'm using (returning it on Monday) would be much better as a hybrid (if you can't disable the auto engine off).

And I could see that with a few improvements the Audi MMI could be way better than the 5G TLX's system. I'm really curious to try Acura's 6G TLX system though.

I found that the nav screen right in the middle of the gauge cluster was really cool at first, but, basically useless while actually using the car because I don't use the car's navigation system when Android Auto is available, and, I would not want a car without that feature. Once Audi let's the Android Auto nav map display on the Gauge Cluster I'll be sold on that feature being absolutely fantastic.
The MMI system in the A6 you've rented is already 2 generations old and quite long in the tooth. If you do have a chance, a better comparison would be the current generation MMI in the A3, A4, Q5, Q7s, or the new generation that is being rolled out in the 19 A6, A7, and Q8s. Audi's navigation system map has always been sourced from Google, which I find easy/accurate enough where I end up using it more than Carplay navigation. Acura has always been and still is behind in this area. I had the new RDX as a loaner for a few days and found the functionality of the new infotainment system to be largely the same as the old, only with better looking graphics and maps. There were a few reports of inaccurate maps with the new RDX as well, which I'm sure will be slowly fixed as Acura starts to roll this infotainment system to the MDX and TLX.

Don't know where Google's plans are for Android Auto, but with the upcoming iOS 13 update, Carplay will allow automakers to extend Carplay functionality (maps, music, phone, etc) to virtual instrument clusters, so we can likely expect to see that in new vehicles in the coming years. That should alleviate most people's gripes about manufacture navigation systems.



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Old 07-07-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Denali05 View Post
The MMI system in the A6 you've rented is already 2 generations old and quite long in the tooth. If you do have a chance, a better comparison would be the current generation MMI in the A3, A4, Q5, Q7s, or the new generation that is being rolled out in the 19 A6, A7, and Q8s. Audi's navigation system map has always been sourced from Google, which I find easy/accurate enough where I end up using it more than Carplay navigation. Acura has always been and still is behind in this area. I had the new RDX as a loaner for a few days and found the functionality of the new infotainment system to be largely the same as the old, only with better looking graphics and maps. There were a few reports of inaccurate maps with the new RDX as well, which I'm sure will be slowly fixed as Acura starts to roll this infotainment system to the MDX and TLX.

Don't know where Google's plans are for Android Auto, but with the upcoming iOS 13 update, Carplay will allow automakers to extend Carplay functionality (maps, music, phone, etc) to virtual instrument clusters, so we can likely expect to see that in new vehicles in the coming years. That should alleviate most people's gripes about manufacture navigation systems.



Android Auto has a pretty significant update coming soon from what I've heard. Almost like a complete overhaul.
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dezymond View Post
Android Auto has a pretty significant update coming soon from what I've heard. Almost like a complete overhaul.

Agree, Am on the beta team & you will like the new (upgraded) package.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Agree, Am on the beta team & you will like the new (upgraded) package.
Nice!

I wish I had Android Auto in my TLX. Have been on the fence about a NavTool for the longest time....
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:50 PM
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Thumbs up

Denali, as I mentioned, it wouldn't take much "fixing" of the "old" A6 MMI system I've used over the past week to push it over the top and be preferable to me over my TLX system (w/Android Auto being used). Absolutely, if not for Android Auto, even the old Audi MMI is superior...
Originally Posted by Denali05 View Post
Don't know where Google's plans are for Android Auto, but with the upcoming iOS 13 update, Carplay will allow automakers to extend Carplay functionality (maps, music, phone, etc) to virtual instrument clusters, so we can likely expect to see that in new vehicles in the coming years. That should alleviate most people's gripes about manufacture navigation systems.
If that is implemented, as you say, (for Android Auto, not Carplay, as I don't use Apple products for ethical reasons) then I'm completely sold on this upcoming Audi MMI system. About the only shortcoming that would bug me still after getting used to not having a touch screen would be the lack of my phone's navigation app being integrated with the "gauge cluster" display.

I don't anticipate being satisfied with a car's navigation system after having used Waze and Google Maps - unless the car system shows me things like where police are, the latest speed limit changes, up to date construction areas, and real time traffic re-routing as good as what I'm accustomed to w/Google nav apps.

------------------------

Yes, I was quite surprised at how deficient this 2018 Audi A6 was, in a few key areas including both the driver assist technologies and power train (from a "driving enthusiest's" perspective). I'm also not surprised by you pointing out that other recent Audi models are not deficient in these areas.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Denali05 View Post
...

I have one more question, regarding the above image ^ : is that carbon fiber real or fake? Because if it's fake, then that car is a "hard no" for me. Fake carbon fiber is the ultimate zenith of sleaziness, a step beyond even fake wood, worse than vinyl seats and fake air vents (which would have almost stopped me from buying a Civic Type-R, had one been in stock the day I was at the car dealer).
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher. View Post
I have one more question, regarding the above image ^ : is that carbon fiber real or fake? Because if it's fake, then that car is a "hard no" for me. Fake carbon fiber is the ultimate zenith of sleaziness, a step beyond even fake wood, worse than vinyl seats and fake air vents (which would have almost stopped me from buying a Civic Type-R, had one been in stock the day I was at the car dealer).
My A4 has real wood, real leather, and real vents as standard equipment. Similar priced cars from BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus all have fake leather standard. I believe most Acura's also have fake leather standard.

The MMI with virtual cockpit on my A4 is great - far better than anything offered at any price from BMW, Lexus or Acura.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserchuck View Post
My A4 has real wood, real leather, and real vents as standard equipment. Similar priced cars from BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus all have fake leather standard. I believe most Acura's also have fake leather standard.

The MMI with virtual cockpit on my A4 is great - far better than anything offered at any price from BMW, Lexus or Acura.
Not an Audi fan but agree it has the best glass cockpit in the industry. The new generation BMW package is a nice improvement over mine but Audi is still better. What keeps me happy is the HUD so I don't look at the panel so much.
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