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I honest to God would buy one in a heart beat, then. I don't care about being the fastest, or fuel economy for that matter. I care about smiles per mile. The clutch in the new Accord is brutal- zero feedback, like stepping on a dry sponge. But, I'm sure that is something very easily rectified... and probably would be with what we are more or less expecting the Type S to have in terms of power.
They don't have to develop the transmission from scratch- but they need to make it fit and do crash safety testing, emissions testing, meeting CAFE standards, blah blah blah. I'm hoping they see value in it. Honestly, we should start bombarding Acura with letters of "we want a 6MT!!" It might actually get us somewhere. The squeaky wheel gets the grease... and it looks like they listened to us with regards to the new RDX and MMC TLX (as much as they could).
I don't understand the point of a triple clutch setup, as mentioned, in the new 11 speed transmission. What's the 3rd clutch for?
Amen to that. I swear, they'd have a blank check if they could make make a 2nd gen TLX Type S with a manual. The transmission is the only thing I'd change on my '18 Aspec. Everything else is fine and just works.
I didn't realize they had to crash test every version of a model. That would complicate it since it wouldn't be a large volume seller. They should consider it their step up to car from younger people that would go from a Civic Si to an Accord Sport looking for a little more luxury and performance. Meh, realisticly this is all a shot in the dark. Just seems like a longshot.
As far as a triple clutch, I have no idea what's the advantage of that and would stay away from it for a few years if Acura deploys something so new like that. They're track records on many transmissions (other than their manuals) hasn't been too good.
We have to remember that the TLX is not selling well. The A-Spec should have been a home run if it had a power bump but it did not. I suspect the first generation TLX to have cycle of 5 years.
We have to remember that the TLX is not selling well. The A-Spec should have been a home run if it had a power bump but it did not. I suspect the first generation TLX to have cycle of 5 years.
I have a feeling next year this time we will see the new TLX Prototype for the summer of 2019 as a 2020 model.
It will be similar to RDX in terms of features and design. Also, possibility of Type-S.
I think Acura wants to change their entire lineup by end of 2020. The question will remain if they will introduce any new model like CDX between now and 2020.
I think Acura wants to change their entire lineup by end of 2020. The question will remain if they will introduce any new model like CDX between now and 2020.
2020 is possible too! As historically, Acura's version of Accord comes 1-2 years after, I don't think I have seen 3.
As far as a triple clutch, I have no idea what's the advantage of that and would stay away from it for a few years if Acura deploys something so new like that. They're track records on many transmissions (other than their manuals) hasn't been too good.
Moving up past the 7/8 gear trans to 11 the additional clutch would hold torque between shifts from dropping. Faster shifting
I have a feeling next year this time we will see the new TLX Prototype for the summer of 2019 as a 2020 model.
It will be similar to RDX in terms of features and design. Also, possibility of Type-S.
I think Acura wants to change their entire lineup by end of 2020. The question will remain if they will introduce any new model like CDX between now and 2020.
Isn't the MDX also due for a complete overhaul? If we go by the previous launches, the MDX would come first, followed by the TLX. That said, there could be a simultaneous launch, but does Acura have the resources to showcase two new vehicles next year? Personally, I'm hedging my bets on spring or summer 2020 for the next TLX.
If they made an ILX Type S with the 2.0T CTR engine w/ SH-AWD, then I'm ok with trading in my 3G TL-S 6MT for it, even if it's not offered in manual
Assuming it looks a lot better than current ILX's, that is...lol
The looks of the current ILX is something, 9th Gen Si seemed like a better buy. The crazy design of the CTR will probably sell more than the current ILX.
Wonder if having that 2.0 Vtec Turbo motor on the ILX would of helped sales.
You’ll have a fairly small number of buyers who’ll want the CTR’s powertrain and performance without the tacky appearance. But, it’s probably too little too late for the model.
Isn't the MDX also due for a complete overhaul? If we go by the previous launches, the MDX would come first, followed by the TLX. That said, there could be a simultaneous launch, but does Acura have the resources to showcase two new vehicles next year? Personally, I'm hedging my bets on spring or summer 2020 for the next TLX.
What about FMC RLX or its replacement? I thought that vehicle would arrive before next gen TLX.
What about FMC RLX or its replacement? I thought that vehicle would arrive before next gen TLX.
The RLX got a MMC for 2018 so I don’t think we’ll see a replacement anytime soon considering how low volume it is. Acura will probably get their top three sellers overhauled first before they look at the rest of their portfolio.
ILX Type-S with the CTR 2.0 turbo and AWD? And please let it be manual.
I've only said that like 100 times, and said "sign me up now", and I guess me and TacoBello agree 100% about this one thing too...
I can't even remember how many countless times, in how many threads that I have said they need to "Acurize the CTR" basically.
I understand that the CTR is $35,000, but I also understand that most of that higher price (as compared to other Civics) is supply & demand.
Unless you were give me a $150,000 Lambo, I basically could not be more excited about a (potential) car than if you take a CTR except put the ILX exterior on it, add Acura's noise deadening, SH-AWD, and other Acura features such as the leather seats and all the rear cross traffic etc. goodies.
It would simply be what the ILX should have been, in the first place - the only problem I see with this equation is that Honda will be saying to themselves: well, the CTR costs $35K, so, we couldn't make an Acura that was as good as the CTR, and not charge more, right?
Could we? Does the CTR cost Honda more to make than the TLXes that they are selling for ~$35K presently?
OK, so, give the ILX 2.0 the 2.0T engine from the Accord? Hold back some features? Just don't make the ride suck, don't make it LOOK like a CTR, they can still make a GREAT ILX 2.0 and set the price under $35K, one way or another?
Even if it doesn't sell large quantities, if you put the 6MT on it and make it great w/the 2.0T engine, you'll have enough screaming "MY GOD HONDA YES YES YOU HIT MY SPOT, OH GOD, ACURA, I mean not Honda..." enthusiasts will orgasm over the car and tell all their friends how in love they are with this car... Magainzes will love the car, even Jalopnik would love the car.
Oh, by the way, this is why I have been quiet for a couple days:
(Partial detached retina post-op - wish me luck on vision more than blurry shapes and colors returning - the prognosis is good, I expect about 80% - 90% vision return eventually for that eye, other eye is fine thank goodness)
Last edited by Christopher.; 01-19-2018 at 10:07 PM.
All this mainly positive discussion is making me quite giddy! I was a little dubious about the long term reliability of turbos over N/A engines, but there seems to be an agreement among experts that they should be equivalent. I do wonder about an industry who might can increase their profits with generally higher prices on turbos and possibly plan on having to replace those engines/cars sooner, after warranty of course. Industries don't do that, do they? Okay, so now I am being a little negative....
My money is 2021 for the next platform and 2.0T/3.0T in 2019 for the last 2 years of this one.
I said generally 5 years. RDX broke the mold.
They aren't changing the engines and doing another mmc for the tlx. That would be an Acura first. By 2021 the current tlx will be beyond dead (if still sold, unchanged).
I too think it'll appear in 2019 as a prototype and sold as a 2020 model.
All this mainly positive discussion is making me quite giddy! I was a little dubious about the long term reliability of turbos over N/A engines, but there seems to be an agreement among experts that they should be equivalent. I do wonder about an industry who might can increase their profits with generally higher prices on turbos and possibly plan on having to replace those engines/cars sooner, after warranty of course. Industries don't do that, do they? Okay, so now I am being a little negative....
well to be honest, the verdict is still out there with regards to the turbo engine long term reliability. Though it seems if history has anything to do with it, Honda can build a bulletproof engine time and again, even with a turbo, but can't build a reliable transmission for the life of them.
personally, I get the feeling the turbo engines will last a long time, though not as long as an NA counterpart. However, that could still easily be by the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th owner of a particular car. I still think they'll get a ton of mileage on them before they die. Consuming oil eventually? More than likely. But that's a Honda standard, save for the J series which generally never really burn oil.
I guess time will ultimately tell what really happens!
I would be scared if I'm in the German's shoes. The first one to be hit is the Q5, RDX interior is pretty nice and similar to what Audi has.
While the new Q5 exterior looks nice, the interior (virtual cockpit aside) leaves much to be desired. Hard plastics everywhere, 80's design, and confusing MMI controls. Not an Audi hater as I have one myself, but with their recent interiors I don't really get where all the praise is coming from Among the big 3, I feel MB currently surpasses the other two by a long mile...
Interesting takeaways for me:
1) It sounds like the real wood and real metal trim in the prototype will indeed make it into the production model.
2) The same for the 16 way seat - clearly aimed for the higher trims I'm guessing they didn't deisgn a new fancy-pants 16 way seat just for the prototype.
3) The engineer STRESSES the new 10 speed transmission will shift very quickly - no lag when you mash on the gas. I have to wonder if this is stressed because of the performance of the ZF9 on the TLX. I'm guessing this is the next transmission for the TLX.
Last edited by CheeseyPoofs McNut; 01-21-2018 at 04:31 AM.
While the new Q5 exterior looks nice, the interior (virtual cockpit aside) leaves much to be desired. Hard plastics everywhere, 80's design, and confusing MMI controls. Not an Audi hater as I have one myself, but with their recent interiors I don't really get where all the praise is coming from Among the big 3, I feel MB currently surpasses the other two by a long mile...
Honestly, the controls on the A4 (same as the Q5) are all around really good. The only weirdness is the shifter, where the RDX might actually be weirder.
There are a few B9 A4 owners on this board, and we all have the same impression: You have to drive it. For example, the shifter is kind of weird, but Audi made it so that the entertainment knob functionality allows the driver to rest their hand on the shifter. It's an extremely ergonomic function. When you sit in it, nothing about it feels cheap. I would expect the RDX to be a little worse if not as good.
well to be honest, the verdict is still out there with regards to the turbo engine long term reliability. Though it seems if history has anything to do with it, Honda can build a bulletproof engine time and again, even with a turbo, but can't build a reliable transmission for the life of them.
personally, I get the feeling the turbo engines will last a long time, though not as long as an NA counterpart. However, that could still easily be by the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th owner of a particular car. I still think they'll get a ton of mileage on them before they die. Consuming oil eventually? More than likely. But that's a Honda standard, save for the J series which generally never really burn oil.
I guess time will ultimately tell what really happens!
The 10 speed in the Accord seems to be getting excellent reviews. Sounds like the RDX version will be even more sport tuned, but as for reliability, time will tell. I do have to add that the 8 speed DCT in my TLX is an in-house transmission and is a wonderfully quick and responsive. It works just as smoothly in the very cold temperatures we have had this winter. Almost 2 years and counting, but we'll see about the longer term.
Excess oil use is a turbo seals thing. Its a replaceable part & does not effect the integrity of the basic engine.
Not to mention that the old TL's 3.7 engine was also known to use oil, so it's not only a problem with turbos. I'd take them any day, it's what makes my A4 so fun to drive... well adaptive suspension helps too. And both will be in Acura's future!
As for Audi's interior, honestly find it very good and of high quality. MMI takes a little to get used to it, but that's due to high level of options. TLX's wasn't any easier.
I don’t want to get too excited as we didn’t see the prod version of RDX yet. But based on the prototype RDX is by far better than Audi, BMW, LExus and Infiniti. I think MB is the best in the market. Elegant and very premium. Other than MB, Acura is the true winner.
Honestly, the controls on the A4 (same as the Q5) are all around really good. The only weirdness is the shifter, where the RDX might actually be weirder.
There are a few B9 A4 owners on this board, and we all have the same impression: You have to drive it. For example, the shifter is kind of weird, but Audi made it so that the entertainment knob functionality allows the driver to rest their hand on the shifter. It's an extremely ergonomic function. When you sit in it, nothing about it feels cheap. I would expect the RDX to be a little worse if not as good.
I definitely would agree it's not cheap feeling. Sat in an A4 at the car show last December and the quality shows. The shifter did seem strange, but was more intuitive to me than the TLX buttons. It's a good target to aim for if Acura is bench marking the class on interiors. Love the virtual cockpit. Acura better get it's head of out of it's ass and offer that sooner than later. The new touchpad looks promising. Glad it's a 1 to 1 mapping instead of a mousepad like interface. That drove me nuts trying it on the Lexus.
I'll keep saying this until they release the 2nd gen TLX. Acura if you're reading this.
Audi and BMW can do this:So please put one of these in the 2nd Gen TLX Type S so we can get some Performance in that Precision Crafted Performance promise you keep making:
Thanks!
The thing is BMW at least is cutting way back on the models that feature it. There is some question on the boards right now if the new "G" generation of the 3 series coming out will have a six speed or not. Actual take rate continues to fall each year.
The thing is BMW at least is cutting way back on the models that feature it. There is some question on the boards right now if the new "G" generation of the 3 series coming out will have a six speed or not. Actual take rate continues to fall each year.
Audi and BMW both have demand from the European markets to help make the manual transmission make business sense. Even there, it tends to be offered more to the economy driver end of the model ranges.
Audi and BMW both have demand from the European markets to help make the manual transmission make business sense. Even there, it tends to be offered more to the economy driver end of the model ranges.
Acura doesn't have a European market.
Exactly! Did you know that in New Zealand in order to get your license you have to do the test in a manual car? It seems like a funny thing considering autos have been around for decades, but the rest of the world seems to value manuals (even for daily driving, not just sporty cars) much more than we do here.
Global production of Manual Transmissions published by the Statistics Portal.
2012 49.4%
2017 46.2%
They are going away. Example the new BMW M5. The only country that has a 6MT version is the USA. What is holding up the numbers for MT is the bottom end cars due to an average cost of $1000 USD for one. In higher end cars they are going away fast on a global basis.
I, for one, am truly excited about the possibility of a 400hp+ TLX Type-S SH-AWD slotting in above the TLX A-Spec and competing directly with the Q50 RS, 340i, S4. My one gripe is the push button transmission, but I won't let that be a deal breaker if everything else is what I want.
More than this, I'm happy that Acura is finally waking up. I don't know how they convinced Honda to let them have more of a share of the pie, but I'm glad they did.
More than this, I'm happy that Acura is finally waking up. I don't know how they convinced Honda to let them have more of a share of the pie, but I'm glad they did.
I think the success seen in the Civic Type R made Honda realize that the performance aspect of cars always works when done well, especially in the luxury section where people gladly pay more for sport options. They would have been insane to say no and watch Acura die off slowly.
I was at the Montreal Car show today and honestly Audi and BMW did not impress me at all. Interior wise, MB and Lexus are excellent. They feel luxury, premium and high end.
Once Acura RDX is out and again if they maintain the prototype version, I promise you it will be superior than BMW, AUDI and Infiniti. But at par with Lexus and below MB.
I was at the Montreal Car show today and honestly Audi and BMW did not impress me at all. Interior wise, MB and Lexus are excellent. They feel luxury, premium and high end.
Once Acura RDX is out and again if they maintain the prototype version, I promise you it will be superior than BMW, AUDI and Infiniti. But at par with Lexus and below MB.
Unless they get a full virtual cockpit display in place, they can only match the germans but will never surpass them tech and interior wise. I still don't know what's wrong with the A4's interior since it's currently so much better than Acura's, MB's is honestly not that great compared to what they charge. And Lexus REALLY didn't impress me, that analog clock annoys me and the tech is just plain wrong.
RDX's prototype gauge design, looks current but that's about it.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 01-21-2018 at 09:48 PM.
I think the success seen in the Civic Type R made Honda realize that the performance aspect of cars always works when done well, especially in the luxury section where people gladly pay more for sport options. They would have been insane to say no and watch Acura die off slowly.
Agreed. Acura struggled hard with an identity crisis and the attitude from upper management that 'good enough' was truly all that was needed. I'm sure a lack of funding didn't help and they were forced to lag behind the Honda products because they literally need the scraps for their dinner.
I imagine that things came to a head at one point and upper management at Honda was presented with a choice - kill Acura and lose any foothold whatsoever in the NA luxury market (forever), or go 110% ahead with a true revitalization of the brand. You can't half-ass luxury and performance and expect people to overlook it for a brand like this.
Personally speaking, I'm all about the performance side of things. I would like nothing better than a TLX Type-S with a good 6MT, SH-AWD and a sweet turbo V6 making 400hp (as someone on here has hinted at) while cutting out the frills like the luxurious interior, ride comfort, etc. Reality dictates that the MT is dead as far as Acura is concerned, and you cannot have performance without the luxury, so I'm willing to put up with a fast shifting auto transmission (which I hope the Honda 10 speed is) and with paying the premium for luxury.
I still feel like we should be a bit weary. How much sport or luxury will they ultimately neuter from the prototype? Right now, that RDX prototype is a homerun that can rival the best out there in the market, where competitors can cost a lot more. Are they shifting back up market? Bigger, more tech, more power, more luxury, same price? I dunno.
The price is going to go up some. You can't have it all and pay scads less than competitors, but Acura will continue to keep costs competitive by packaging. I would agree that Audis interiors present very nicely, but frankly i find the materials similar in quality to Acura, in terms of soft foam dashes (thinking A4 and Q5) and use of plastics. Leather wise, you need to move up to Sport seats to get something reasonably soft and comparable to the Milano leather, but a little better bolstered. The virtual dash is cool high tech, but honestly, If I can play with a larger viewing area in the middle of the two gauges, I doubt very much I would be constantly changing the whole array. To me, a larger navigation presentation in front of me would be the main benefit. Audis don't have the most intuitive controls, but tech savvy drivers will get used to them quickly, unlike two screens where it seems German car loving reviewers and millennials seem to have trouble adjusting to anything that doesn't look like an Ipad...heh heh.
The "proposed" RDX interior will certainly be very competitive in the segment. I'm presuming with the 1-1 touch pad control, the driver will never be locked out of using all menus while driving. The new voice system also looks very promising, especially if we Canadians can put in an entire address with one voice command.
I guess a CD player and Hard Drive is out - which is kinda sad for those of us that have 1800 songs on the HD and can access whatever we want by voice, whenever we want it. Sigh...progress....
01-18-2018, 04:50 PM
Among the big 3, I feel MB currently surpasses the other two by a long mile...
