Accord Sport 6mt 0-60 in 6.6 - TLX 4cyl 8 Dct 0-60 in ...
02-27-2014, 02:22 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
Agree to some extent but things have always been improving over time. For example, my 1995 Accord LX got 130hp (old rating system - should be less than today's standards) and 24mpg combined. The 2013 Accord is rated at 185hp (new system) and gets 30+ mpg.
02-27-2014, 02:45 PM
#42
Senior Moderator
Just look at what the Corvettes have been doing. They have no problem getting into the 30+mpg hwy with 400+ hp
02-27-2014, 02:46 PM
#43
Yup, my old 160 hp 5MT RSX would struggle to do 25-27 mpg, the 201 hp 6MT ILX does 29-31 mpg.
02-27-2014, 05:23 PM
#44
2G TLX-S
.
02-27-2014, 05:23 PM
#45
2G TLX-S
Highway mileage always sounds best, because the vehicle is running on super-tall, overdriven top gear all day long, and some even with half the cylinder banks disabled.
However, city mileage and/or 50%-city/50%-highway is a more realistic comparison measurement for high hp vehicles.
However, city mileage and/or 50%-city/50%-highway is a more realistic comparison measurement for high hp vehicles.
02-27-2014, 07:35 PM
#46
Drifting
As an example, our 2003 Accord went 0-60 in maybe 8 seconds and got at most 34 mpg on the highway. Our '13 has been measured at 6.6 and gets 40+ mpg in straight highway driving. The old car got about 27 mpg in combined driving; the '13 is averaging about 31 or so. Things that were once thought impossible can be accomplished with advanced engineering and materials.
02-27-2014, 08:43 PM
#47
AZ Community Team
Our 86 Integra 5MT 113HP would average ~28-29 in mixed driving. My 05 TL 6MT 258HP gets ~27. ~1000 pounds more and 2X+ the power with only slightly less fuel usage. Modern engines are pretty good for efficiency.
02-27-2014, 08:51 PM
#48
AZ Community Team
Yup, in fact, NOT being the fastest has been a longtime H/A trait. It has always been the complete package that made the product appealing. I'm not holding my breath, but I hope the TLX gets DWB front suspension. This would help separate it from the Accord in perception and would surly yield a more well rounded car from a handling perspective.
Yeah, and being the fastest is a fleeting title as new cars are introduced.
Yeah, and being the fastest is a fleeting title as new cars are introduced.
02-27-2014, 09:07 PM
#50
+1, also want to see a upper/lower control arm front suspension in the TLX. The one thing that Acura has stuck with for the mid/upper sedans from the beginning was DWB front suspension. Understand the use in the Accord and other Honda models but to me it's worth the extra cost.
02-27-2014, 09:38 PM
#52
^^ LOL, both would be OK but don't sacrifice leather... EVER AGAIN. No more base ILX or RLX.
02-28-2014, 06:50 AM
#53
Honestly, I find some of the leatherette that competitors have to be pretty good and most buyers would not be able to tell the difference. Not saying we should get cloth seats, but a high quality leatherette that saves a bit per car would be just fine with me if the trade-off is I can get a little more power out of the motor and P-AWS along with the double-wishbone suspension setup.
02-28-2014, 10:47 AM
#54
AZ Community Team
Honestly, the Accord is an engineering masterpiece in my eyes. So many compromises balanced so well. Its one of the finest sedans available at any price .
The thing is, the wide ratio stack of an 8 speed transmission should really allow both like nedmundo said. A really tall 7th and 8th gear for highway fuel economy and the ability of the engine to quickly get into it's most efficient operating range and stay there in city traffic.
The 8 speed used by BMW is the same off the shelf ZF unit used by many other car manufacturers now including the Ram pickup
. Not a bad thing since its an excellent transmission but how many parts can different manufacturers share before they lose a chunk of what makes them special. Hondas and Acuras transmissions, going way back, have been more like automated manuals and lack planetary gearsets typical on just about every other automatic car. This is one of the things that contributes to the light and lively feel of Acuras and Hondas. It appears that that Acuras new DCT transmissions are done in house thus preserving this history. Although the 9 speed used in the TLX 3.5 I'm not sure about.
. The thing is, the wide ratio stack of an 8 speed transmission should really allow both like nedmundo said. A really tall 7th and 8th gear for highway fuel economy and the ability of the engine to quickly get into it's most efficient operating range and stay there in city traffic.
The 8 speed used by BMW is the same off the shelf ZF unit used by many other car manufacturers now including the Ram pickup
. Not a bad thing since its an excellent transmission but how many parts can different manufacturers share before they lose a chunk of what makes them special. Hondas and Acuras transmissions, going way back, have been more like automated manuals and lack planetary gearsets typical on just about every other automatic car. This is one of the things that contributes to the light and lively feel of Acuras and Hondas. It appears that that Acuras new DCT transmissions are done in house thus preserving this history. Although the 9 speed used in the TLX 3.5 I'm not sure about.
02-28-2014, 11:05 AM
#55
Suzuka Master
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Why is DWB so important to everybody? Despite what one poster said about struts are only for cheap cars Ferrari, Lamborghini & Porsche all use them.
02-28-2014, 11:13 AM
#56
AZ Community Team
DWB is also used on all Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsches. They use a coil over damper arrangement that are technically not struts since they only provide structural support in the tube dimension. A strut provides additionally lateral support in place of the upper arm.
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02-28-2014, 11:51 AM
#57
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Was curious what the answer would be with the TLX. Not sure based on typical usage that DWS is all that necessary as opposed to a nice to have thing for the enthusiast forum guys. I would guess 99% of the buyers have no clue or could care less using what is under the car as long as its comfortable. Tell a typical prospect it has DWS & the response would be “what’s that”. Most would take Leather if a trade off was necessary.
BTW Agree with double wishbones & coil overs for more precise wheel placement. I am using that style front suspension on the car I am building but its use will be a lot different than a 4 door daily driver that needs to be built to a specific price.
BTW Agree with double wishbones & coil overs for more precise wheel placement. I am using that style front suspension on the car I am building but its use will be a lot different than a 4 door daily driver that needs to be built to a specific price.
02-28-2014, 01:16 PM
#58
From my point of view, some of the answer is the same as the above answer to the leather question. For some customers, knowing they have a suspension modeled after race cars is enough, for others, they might actually exploit the difference. From a sales perspective, I welcome the opportunity to explain something "new" to customers.
03-01-2014, 05:49 AM
#60
AZ Community Team
^ but that brings the question could the 2013 9G Accord been better with a DWB?
FWIW, the first two generations of Accords had struts. The 3G which came out in 86 copied the 2G Prelude front DWB suspension.
FWIW, the first two generations of Accords had struts. The 3G which came out in 86 copied the 2G Prelude front DWB suspension.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 03-01-2014 at 05:52 AM.
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03-01-2014, 09:43 AM
#61
Drifting
We have an '03 and a '13 Accord. Granted, the '03 (which my son drives now) has nearly 200K miles on it, but I believe the '13 handles better than the '03. The newer car is a bit softer and does lose a little steering feel with EPS, but overall, turn-in is crisper and the car tracks beautifully.
I don't know whether the TLX will offer DWB, but I'm confident that with Acura suspension tuning and the already very solid platform of the 9G Accord, it will handle very well.
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03-01-2014, 01:51 PM
#62
Senior Moderator
DWB gives more precise camber control over the travel of the suspension which provides a better contact patch with the tire to the road.
DWB is also used on all Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsches. They use a coil over damper arrangement that are technically not struts since they only provide structural support in the tube dimension. A strut provides additionally lateral support in place of the upper arm.
DWB is also used on all Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsches. They use a coil over damper arrangement that are technically not struts since they only provide structural support in the tube dimension. A strut provides additionally lateral support in place of the upper arm.
And people really need to stop thinking of Strut tech like it was in the 80s as if you will have shit for handling. A lot has been done recently in design to make them much better. (ie the Revo knuckle and the super strut design like gm use on the buick. Many publications have stated that the Focus ST is one of the best if not the best handling FWD cars made, and it has Macpherson struts up front. (that said though, i too would rather have DWB)
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03-01-2014, 02:20 PM
#63
AZ Community Team
, you're right. I should have also know since I changed my brother's brake pads on his 996 last month.The Cayenne and Pamamera uses DBW, but with the exception of the GT2/3 the 911's and Cayman/Boxster use front struts.
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...nd-rear-axles/
997 GT2
Not true, Porsche 911 uses Macpherson struts up front...
And people really need to stop thinking of Strut tech like it was in the 80s as if you will have shit for handling. A lot has been done recently in design to make them much better. (ie the Revo knuckle and the super strut design like gm use on the buick. Many publications have stated that the Focus ST is one of the best if not the best handling FWD cars made, and it has Macpherson struts up front. (that said though, i too would rather have DWB)
And people really need to stop thinking of Strut tech like it was in the 80s as if you will have shit for handling. A lot has been done recently in design to make them much better. (ie the Revo knuckle and the super strut design like gm use on the buick. Many publications have stated that the Focus ST is one of the best if not the best handling FWD cars made, and it has Macpherson struts up front. (that said though, i too would rather have DWB)
Last edited by Legend2TL; 03-01-2014 at 02:26 PM.
03-04-2014, 11:14 PM
#64
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What's with the 6s?
2012 Acura TL SH-AWD 3.7 V6 0-60 mph 5.4
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html
2012 Acura TL SH-AWD 3.7 V6 0-60 mph 5.4
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html
03-05-2014, 07:01 AM
#65
Senior Moderator
What's with the 6s?
2012 Acura TL SH-AWD 3.7 V6 0-60 mph 5.4
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html
2012 Acura TL SH-AWD 3.7 V6 0-60 mph 5.4
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html
03-05-2014, 10:31 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
Wish for double wishbones
From my point of view, some of the answer is the same as the above answer to the leather question. For some customers, knowing they have a suspension modeled after race cars is enough, for others, they might actually exploit the difference. From a sales perspective, I welcome the opportunity to explain something "new" to customers.
I agree. DWB is appropriate for a premium car, regardless whether a driver makes full use of it or not.
Along with fsttyms1's excellent diagram, I understand that McPherson struts, being more vertical, allow for more interior passenger space. This is important for small cars like the Porsche Boxter, but the TLX is big enough to have DWB. Struts are also are less complex, cheaper, and lighter than DWB.
In contrast, DWB allows for a lower hood line (but pedestrian safety regs probably limit how low a design can go). And compared to struts, DWB keeps more of a tire's contact patch on the road... especially the outer tire on a curve.
So while McPherson struts can be tuned well and made quite capable, DWB are a better fit for the premium, luxury, and performance market. I'd certainly trade PAWS for DWB.
03-31-2014, 12:51 PM
#67
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04-02-2014, 04:40 AM
#68
I'd love to know how you're getting 27mpg in your TL. I've averaged 17.41mpg over the last 24797 miles in my 06 MT. What kind of tires are you running? I must be having too much fun.
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