Accord 18 pics released...TLX killer?
11-17-2017, 12:19 PM
#921
Team Owner
Sibling Rivalry: All-New 2018 Honda Accord ($416/Month) vs. Acura TLX ($291/Month)
https://leasehackr.com/blog/2017/11/...a-tlx-291month
https://leasehackr.com/blog/2017/11/...a-tlx-291month
11-17-2017, 01:30 PM
#923
Team Owner
Accord still wins hands down, for me.
I'll take a brand new model for 125 bucks a month more, vs one that will be replaced in a year or so.
also: who leases an accord?
I'll take a brand new model for 125 bucks a month more, vs one that will be replaced in a year or so.
also: who leases an accord?
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11-17-2017, 01:47 PM
#924
Team Owner
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11-17-2017, 02:13 PM
#926
Azine Jabroni
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11-17-2017, 03:36 PM
#929
Three Wheelin'
Thanks for sharing but I have my doubts that Stinger will impact TLX, RLX, Q50 or IS.
I find a Touarge is a lot more premium than a MDX and better looking than a RX350 (this is my opinion). But yet again, why VW is struggling to increase sales. The same exact assumption was made when Sante Fe, Tuscon, Elantra came...people started saying CR-V, Rav 4, Corolla and Civic sales will suffer...did it suffer?
Brand is brand...people pay more to get the little logo buddy! You might not be one of them but believe me many of us are...It's sad but it's the truth! If not, most of clothing and designer companies would shut down by now.
I find a Touarge is a lot more premium than a MDX and better looking than a RX350 (this is my opinion). But yet again, why VW is struggling to increase sales. The same exact assumption was made when Sante Fe, Tuscon, Elantra came...people started saying CR-V, Rav 4, Corolla and Civic sales will suffer...did it suffer?
Brand is brand...people pay more to get the little logo buddy! You might not be one of them but believe me many of us are...It's sad but it's the truth! If not, most of clothing and designer companies would shut down by now.
11-17-2017, 03:53 PM
#930
Senior Moderator
yep, I cross shopped the 16 AV6 Touring (as well as a Q50 3.7) before going with the TLX 3.5. The Accord at that trim level leased for quite a bit more than my TLX and the Q50.
11-17-2017, 04:13 PM
#931
Burning Brakes
Probably because of it's high residual value, which makes sense since Accords do have a somewhat high resale value. Time will tell for MMC, but original TLXs have awful resale value.
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11-17-2017, 04:50 PM
#932
Burning Brakes
I was going to say. Lease is based on the residual value of the car. A higher payment isn't a bad thing. Don't want a higher payment and plan to own the car, put it out to 72 months and it'll be a lower payment. Don't lease something you plan to keep for the long run. That's just stupid.
11-17-2017, 08:46 PM
#934
Team Owner
I guess comparing lease numbers only, yeah, ok, go for the cheaper one. But I dunno. 125 bucks is pretty much fuck all. I'd pay that for a newer model. I'd be much happier with the Accord overall, simply due to the 6MT transmission. That alone is worth 125 bucks a month to me.
Last edited by TacoBello; 11-17-2017 at 08:48 PM.
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11-17-2017, 11:22 PM
#935
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Assuming a constant sticker price and interest rate, a higher residual value means a lower lease payment. I suspect the decline in the TLX residual value is one reason why there are significant incentives to lease or buy, particularly for those that are monthly payment focused.
Last edited by mapleloaf; 11-17-2017 at 11:25 PM.
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BEAR-AvHistory (11-18-2017)
11-18-2017, 12:13 AM
#936
Burning Brakes
Assuming a constant sticker price and interest rate, a higher residual value means a lower lease payment. I suspect the decline in the TLX residual value is one reason why there are significant incentives to lease or buy, particularly for those that are monthly payment focused.
Incentives and lower interest rates benefits TLX right now. Accord is too new, you pay for it if leasing now.
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TacoBello (11-18-2017)
11-22-2017, 05:09 PM
#938
Banned
Quoted for truth.
Dyno Testing the Honda Accord's New Turbo Motor Against the Old V6
lol at the new 2.0toy.
Dyno Testing the Honda Accord's New Turbo Motor Against the Old V6
Originally Posted by Road&Track
What would the 2.0T have done if it had been permitted to run to 6500rpm? It’s hard to say, but as you can see from the superimposed curves in the photo, the turbo is never as strong as the six anywhere in the rev range. Like it or not, the V6 is simply a more powerful engine. The fact that it sounds marvelous and offers a bit of that authentic Honda VTEC redline rush is just icing on the cake.
...
There’s one final number to consider. Over the course of a 192-mile round-trip, and including the dyno pulls and drag races, the 2.0T managed to return 27.1 miles per gallon. The V6 was at 26.5. So there is a slight fuel-economy benefit, although V6 automatics are known to return better mileage than their stick-shift counterparts.
...
There’s one final number to consider. Over the course of a 192-mile round-trip, and including the dyno pulls and drag races, the 2.0T managed to return 27.1 miles per gallon. The V6 was at 26.5. So there is a slight fuel-economy benefit, although V6 automatics are known to return better mileage than their stick-shift counterparts.
11-22-2017, 05:26 PM
#939
Team Owner
Honda seems to have maxed out it's ability to make the V6 any more of a fuel sipper. The turbo, while not sounding as pretty, helped them gain another 0.6mpg. Yeah, it's minimal, but in the world of ever stricter growing fuel economy standards, what choice do manufacturers have but to try something different?
Either way, all I know is if I bought a 2.0T accord, I'd be making a call to Hondata soon after. For under $1000, the accord will then for sure destroy the TLX in any performance figure. Generally, with aftermarket tunes, fuel economy improves also. Manufacturers put conservative tunes on turbo cars, dumping more fuel than necessary into the engine. Not a ton more. But enough to keep manufacturers from sweating bullets about longevity. Aftermarket tunes easily clean that up and I for one don't think I've ever heard of someone blowing an engine due to an unsafe tune from Hondata, Cobb, Stasis, etc.
I will admit though, the accord will never sound as good. As more manufacturers turn to turbos, I think the days of NA V6s is coming to an end. I'd be surprised if they're still around in 5-8 years from now. The biggest culprit being fuel economy.
Either way, all I know is if I bought a 2.0T accord, I'd be making a call to Hondata soon after. For under $1000, the accord will then for sure destroy the TLX in any performance figure. Generally, with aftermarket tunes, fuel economy improves also. Manufacturers put conservative tunes on turbo cars, dumping more fuel than necessary into the engine. Not a ton more. But enough to keep manufacturers from sweating bullets about longevity. Aftermarket tunes easily clean that up and I for one don't think I've ever heard of someone blowing an engine due to an unsafe tune from Hondata, Cobb, Stasis, etc.
I will admit though, the accord will never sound as good. As more manufacturers turn to turbos, I think the days of NA V6s is coming to an end. I'd be surprised if they're still around in 5-8 years from now. The biggest culprit being fuel economy.
11-22-2017, 05:28 PM
#940
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Nice cherry picking.. here are some details you missed.
We'll wait for your expert opinion on dynos and engine dynamics 
There was one little problem. We couldn’t get our hands on a six-speed manual 2.0T Touring, so we had to settle for the 10-speed automatic..
Getting a dyno reading with the 2014 was simplicity itself. Just turn traction control off, disable Eco mode, and let ‘er rip. There was one small problem, however: the Accord’s direct-drive fourth gear reaches the 122mph speed limiter before hitting redline. So we had to run in third. Luckily the Dynocom uses a visual reading of RPM and can make the proper calculations.
Next up: The 2.0T Touring. Getting a number out of this much more advanced car was considerably tougher. The transmission wouldn’t hold a particular gear, even in Sport mode, so we couldn’t keep it in the direct-drive sixth for the full rev range. The very first pull was 212.3 horses at 5500 rpm, with 214.1 lb-ft of torque at 4950. Honda quotes peak power for the 2.0T automatic at 6500rpm—but in our test, the car cut boost and performed a mandatory upshift at 5750 or so.
What would the 2.0T have done if it had been permitted to run to 6500rpm? It’s hard to say
With all of that said, there is one area where the new car beats the old one. From a standing start, the 2.0T is far, far better at maintaining traction. It accelerates away while the V6 is still axle-tramping madly and spinning its wheels to no end. Don’t bet against the 2.0T at a dragstrip. Everywhere else, however, it’s not even close.
Getting a dyno reading with the 2014 was simplicity itself. Just turn traction control off, disable Eco mode, and let ‘er rip. There was one small problem, however: the Accord’s direct-drive fourth gear reaches the 122mph speed limiter before hitting redline. So we had to run in third. Luckily the Dynocom uses a visual reading of RPM and can make the proper calculations.
Next up: The 2.0T Touring. Getting a number out of this much more advanced car was considerably tougher. The transmission wouldn’t hold a particular gear, even in Sport mode, so we couldn’t keep it in the direct-drive sixth for the full rev range. The very first pull was 212.3 horses at 5500 rpm, with 214.1 lb-ft of torque at 4950. Honda quotes peak power for the 2.0T automatic at 6500rpm—but in our test, the car cut boost and performed a mandatory upshift at 5750 or so.
What would the 2.0T have done if it had been permitted to run to 6500rpm? It’s hard to say
With all of that said, there is one area where the new car beats the old one. From a standing start, the 2.0T is far, far better at maintaining traction. It accelerates away while the V6 is still axle-tramping madly and spinning its wheels to no end. Don’t bet against the 2.0T at a dragstrip. Everywhere else, however, it’s not even close.
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11-22-2017, 06:16 PM
#941
Burning Brakes
I think Saintor should just stop posting. With all his "on paper" talk, it seems he has little to no real world knowledge or experience. Lol. Don't cherry pick the info YOU want to hear dude.
The new Accord is great in person and on paper. With boost kicking in low and pushing to the redline unlike the falling powerband in the V6 and more torque, multiple test have been done and the new 2.0t beats the V6 every time.
The new Accord is great in person and on paper. With boost kicking in low and pushing to the redline unlike the falling powerband in the V6 and more torque, multiple test have been done and the new 2.0t beats the V6 every time.
11-22-2017, 09:21 PM
#942
Suzuka Master
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Only two things anyone needs to know.
1. They could not get a clean dyno run & were in the wrong gear for a dyno run on the Accord so the chart is meaningless. Might not be possible to get one based on the info posted. In that case you have to accept whatever the factory claims there engine dyno said unless you want to pull the engine & dyno it yourself. Torque curve is unlike any I have ever seen on a turbo engine as they are all generally very flat from low 1200/1500RPM through 5000+RPM
2. Side by side on the street out of a traffic light the Accord will kick the TLX's butt if for no other reason then lack of drive wheel control. (Axel Tramp which if severe enough will break things & no one with any brains will try to drive through it).
1. They could not get a clean dyno run & were in the wrong gear for a dyno run on the Accord so the chart is meaningless. Might not be possible to get one based on the info posted. In that case you have to accept whatever the factory claims there engine dyno said unless you want to pull the engine & dyno it yourself. Torque curve is unlike any I have ever seen on a turbo engine as they are all generally very flat from low 1200/1500RPM through 5000+RPM
2. Side by side on the street out of a traffic light the Accord will kick the TLX's butt if for no other reason then lack of drive wheel control. (Axel Tramp which if severe enough will break things & no one with any brains will try to drive through it).
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-22-2017 at 09:36 PM.
11-23-2017, 12:59 AM
#943
11-23-2017, 04:59 AM
#944
Senior Moderator
Only two things anyone needs to know.
1. They could not get a clean dyno run & were in the wrong gear for a dyno run on the Accord so the chart is meaningless. Might not be possible to get one based on the info posted. In that case you have to accept whatever the factory claims there engine dyno said unless you want to pull the engine & dyno it yourself. Torque curve is unlike any I have ever seen on a turbo engine as they are all generally very flat from low 1200/1500RPM through 5000+RPM
2. Side by side on the street out of a traffic light the Accord will kick the TLX's butt if for no other reason then lack of drive wheel control. (Axel Tramp which if severe enough will break things & no one with any brains will try to drive through it).
1. They could not get a clean dyno run & were in the wrong gear for a dyno run on the Accord so the chart is meaningless. Might not be possible to get one based on the info posted. In that case you have to accept whatever the factory claims there engine dyno said unless you want to pull the engine & dyno it yourself. Torque curve is unlike any I have ever seen on a turbo engine as they are all generally very flat from low 1200/1500RPM through 5000+RPM
2. Side by side on the street out of a traffic light the Accord will kick the TLX's butt if for no other reason then lack of drive wheel control. (Axel Tramp which if severe enough will break things & no one with any brains will try to drive through it).
Originally Posted by Jack Baruth, Road & Track
Although the 2.0T always pulled half a car or so at the beginning of every 40mph roll, the V6 crushed it in short order, usually well before the speedometers hit 60. In a traditional 40-120 roll, the new car wouldn’t be within shouting distance of the old one’s taillights.
We’ll be happy to repeat the test with a six-speed 2.0T if we can get one, but you’d be foolish to expect too much difference in the numbers. The V6 in the old car is closer in output and behavior to the boosted-up version of the 2.0T that powers the Civic Type R than it is to the family-car variant in the Accord Touring.
We’ll be happy to repeat the test with a six-speed 2.0T if we can get one, but you’d be foolish to expect too much difference in the numbers. The V6 in the old car is closer in output and behavior to the boosted-up version of the 2.0T that powers the Civic Type R than it is to the family-car variant in the Accord Touring.
11-23-2017, 06:13 AM
#945
yeah, but if you keep the TLX in Sport + mode.......
11-23-2017, 06:20 AM
#946
Senior Moderator
I assume you're referring to braking and handling, to which I would agree.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...al-test-review
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...wd-test-review
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...al-test-review
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...wd-test-review
11-23-2017, 06:59 AM
#947
Banned
Indeed, those are details and NOT the essential. I missed nothing. The "traction" finding has nothing to do with the engine.
And the V6 is also quicker on the 5-60, which belies their statement. If an engine is strong from the idle "real life", it is where it is proven. The reality is that, like all 2.0toys, this one has lag from idle.
And the V6 is also quicker on the 5-60, which belies their statement. If an engine is strong from the idle "real life", it is where it is proven. The reality is that, like all 2.0toys, this one has lag from idle.
11-23-2017, 08:26 AM
#949
Wow, 24 pages and going strong.. The conclusion? Nonone is anyone's "killer"! We live in a democratic society where people have incredibly diverse interests and opinions. TLX will live on in 2018 and possibly beyond. And if it doesn't, it won't be because of its alleged "killer" 2.0 T Accord. Everyone should just lighten up and stop using one Honda product to bash another. It's pointless and laughable.
11-23-2017, 08:56 AM
#950
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And if I may add on to that, we also live in a society with rampant untreated mental health issues where two people can look at the same sky and one sees blue with white clouds and the other sees some sort of cartoonish tie-dye effect full of fuzzy pterodactyls.
The thing is, one of those people is delusional and should probably be on medication.
The thing is, one of those people is delusional and should probably be on medication.
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11-23-2017, 09:03 AM
#951
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Jesus Fuck Joseph and Mary
You're the best Fucketh Joseph
Happy Thanksgiving
You're the best Fucketh Joseph
Happy Thanksgiving
11-23-2017, 09:06 AM
#952
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Do you think tlx2017 was already taken, fat finger, dyslexia, or homersimpson?
11-23-2017, 09:18 AM
#953
Happy Thanksgiving, all!
11-23-2017, 09:22 AM
#954
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Already taken, I would have gone with tlx2018
But then others would have judged you for not beingaccord2018 tlxkiller2018
But then others would have judged you for not being
11-23-2017, 09:39 AM
#955
11-23-2017, 09:45 AM
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11-23-2017, 12:08 PM
#957
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I love random assholes
#woodknot
#woodknot
11-23-2017, 12:16 PM
#958
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Physics being what it is with cars of equal size & weight the win will eventually always go to the car with more horse power at some point in time. Think what we have here is a better application of torque in normal DD use with the Accord. That said an Accord with an inexpensive COBB or similar tune would have the horsepower required with just keep piling onto its lead. The TLX has no such options for those interested in some basic mods.
Bottom line is the turbos give you many more options for performance improvement & is something Acura should have looked into years ago..
11-23-2017, 12:33 PM
#959
Be interesting to know why anyone would run either of these cars from a rolling start? That is generally the preserve of high powered cars not looking to kill tires or shock break parts. Expect 99% of all non-legal street runs of these two cars would be out of a traffic light up to 40-50MPH to get lane choice in a merge or to the front of the line into the quicker lane. If it goes on long enough the V6 can always do a ricer flyby but by then who cares.
Physics being what it is with cars of equal size & weight the win will eventually always go to the car with more horse power at some point in time. Think what we have here is a better application of torque in normal DD use with the Accord. That said an Accord with an inexpensive COBB or similar tune would have the horsepower required with just keep piling onto its lead. The TLX has no such options for those interested in some basic mods.
Bottom line is the turbos give you many more options for performance improvement & is something Acura should have looked into years ago..
Physics being what it is with cars of equal size & weight the win will eventually always go to the car with more horse power at some point in time. Think what we have here is a better application of torque in normal DD use with the Accord. That said an Accord with an inexpensive COBB or similar tune would have the horsepower required with just keep piling onto its lead. The TLX has no such options for those interested in some basic mods.
Bottom line is the turbos give you many more options for performance improvement & is something Acura should have looked into years ago..
11-23-2017, 12:46 PM
#960
Team Owner
Stock for Stock, the 2.0t exceeds the V6 mildly in fuel economy. That's why Honda chose to go with it. Honda never intended it to be a tire shredding badass turbo car. They are waaaaaay too conservative to ever do something like that. And so stock for Stock, maybe the v6 is a wee bit faster, quicker, whatever.
But last I checked, this is a forum, and a huge part of any car forum is modifying. Instantly the V6 loses in that department.
Honda never intended the 2.0t to exceed the v6 in terms of performance. It very easily could. But honda didn't want it to. Honda intended on giving us an equivalent to v6, in terms of performance, and the 2.0t more or less does that. Its slightly better in one aspect. Slightly worse in another.
But coming into a forum, this is where the turbo should shine. Instead we have a bunch of people who bought a nice car and want to talk about how nice it is, as opposed to what AZ used to be, where people used to try squeezing every last ounce out of their car.
In pretty much every other car forum, everyone would be all over the turbo like fat kids on chocolate bars. No one in their right mind would take an NA platform. Why would they? For the sound? That's It?
But last I checked, this is a forum, and a huge part of any car forum is modifying. Instantly the V6 loses in that department.
Honda never intended the 2.0t to exceed the v6 in terms of performance. It very easily could. But honda didn't want it to. Honda intended on giving us an equivalent to v6, in terms of performance, and the 2.0t more or less does that. Its slightly better in one aspect. Slightly worse in another.
But coming into a forum, this is where the turbo should shine. Instead we have a bunch of people who bought a nice car and want to talk about how nice it is, as opposed to what AZ used to be, where people used to try squeezing every last ounce out of their car.
In pretty much every other car forum, everyone would be all over the turbo like fat kids on chocolate bars. No one in their right mind would take an NA platform. Why would they? For the sound? That's It?
Last edited by TacoBello; 11-23-2017 at 12:49 PM.