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False. If it would be the case, it would do it in Sport +. *It does not.* You are just confused by the throttle mapping and programming.
Not sure what you are saying is false, but the ZF8 shifts are fast & seamless in any mode. They do engage harder in sport, sport+ & manual. Its a function of varying gripping force applied not shift speed. In comfort you don't even know what gear you are in unless you count the tach drops.
ZF says " the new 8-speed automatic transmission offers extremely short response and shift times below the threshold of perception."
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 10-22-2018 at 07:04 PM.
Not sure what you are saying is false, but the ZF8 shifts are fast & seamless in any mode. They do engage harder in sport, sport+ & manual. Its a function of varying gripping force applied not shift speed. In comfort you don't even know what gear you are in unless you count the tach drops.
ZF says " the new 8-speed automatic transmission offers extremely short response and shift times below the threshold of perception."
He has been argumentatively bludgeoned. He has no counter any longer. This is usually where he resorts to name calling but he's already called all the clever names and somehow hasn't managed to get banned.
He has been argumentatively bludgeoned. He has no counter any longer. This is usually where he resorts to name calling but he's already called all the clever names and somehow hasn't managed to get banned.
When it gets to that point you know you won the debate as its an easy way to keep score.
Not sure what you are saying is false, but the ZF8 shifts are fast & seamless in any mode.
Because it is not related at all.... ZF8 shifts no faster than the ZF 6HP in 2006. It is the same typical 150-200ms it was 12 years ago. And the ZF9 is directly derived from that 6HP.
ZF says " the new 8-speed automatic transmission offers extremely short response and shift times below the threshold of perception."
You are just believing marketing people, aren''t you? lol. "threshold of perception" can be defined as less than eye blinking (300ms) and even the 6HP was doing that.
He has been argumentatively bludgeoned. He has no counter any longer. This is usually where he resorts to name calling but he's already called all the clever names and somehow hasn't managed to get banned.
Kid, go back to those Jetta forums where you belong. You have no business being here for the sole purpose of provoking people.
Problems with this transmission are well known. This transmission locks up the torque converter in all gears, increasing wear. Combined with a sealed transmission pan and "lifetime fluid", some people have experienced catastrophic transmission failure.
There are also problems with the valve block and solenoids. When this failure starts to occur, shift quality and speed, torque transfer and even loss of ability to engage gears can occur. These problems led Volkswagen AG to extend the warranty on all of their vehicles equipped with this transmission to 100,000 miles or 10 years.
Current ZF 9 - ZF says "The ZF9 transmission can downshift in 450 ms, with a 150 ms response time."
The transmission has been problematic, as customers of Jeep, Chrysler, and Acura models equipped with the transmission have experienced problems in their vehicles regarding slow shifting and noisy operation. ZF has said this is due to software problems, not mechanical issues.
Original ZF8 - ZF says "Due to changes in the ZF8's internal design, the shift times have reduced to 200 milliseconds"
New ZF8 version - Alpha'a data sheet lists 150MS for the current ZF8.
Two words: shift quality. The 8HP transmission from German supplier ZF is quick enough to serve sports cars and graceful enough for large luxury sedans, and it combines those elements of speed and smoothness whether it’s installed in an Aston Martin, a Rolls-Royce, or a Jeep.
All one-gear and two-gear shifts use just two shifting elements: one opens, another closes. The 8HP also executes certain multigear shifts in this manner; witness the leaps from sixth gear to third and even eighth to second.
Has the dual-clutch transmission met its match? You might think that’s the case, given the recent defections by the Audi RS5 and the BMW M5, which switched from dual-clutch transmissions to ZF’s 8HP torque-converter automatics.
That’s also the opinion of Andy Palmer, CEO of Aston Martin, who claims ZF’s 8HP is lighter, cheaper, and quicker than a dual-clutch transmission.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 10-23-2018 at 07:50 PM.
BTW the ZF8 is good enough for both Rolls-Royce & Bentley on the luxury end & Lamborghini & Ferrari on the performance end. That says just about all that needs to be said & more then I can say about the ZF8's capability. Are there any outstanding cars with the ZF9?
The comment on shift speed reduced to 200MS was a comparison to the ZF6.
Pictures don't show any commonality among the three transmissions. Maybe its there but I don't see it. Got two longitudinal boxes & one transverse all with different types of gear sets.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 10-23-2018 at 08:26 PM.
2018 variation is the one against that you should concentrate your [futile] efforts. Yeah it doesn't meet your elitist agenda, we got it.
In recent years, Acura econo-programming have been tuned down and we can see that in EPA figures, down a bit. Meaning that most modern ZF9 are less reluctant to downshift.
Above, comparing the 450ms against the 150-200ms just shows your ignorance or bad faith of what is meant for. To be clear, it is NOT a 450ms gear change.
Are there any outstanding cars with the ZF9?
So flawed question; is there any FWD outstanding car with the ZF8 is the proper question. That is the job of the ZF9, isn't it?
So flawed question; is there any FWD outstanding car with the ZF8 is the proper question. That is the job of the ZF9, isn't it?
The ZF8 is a RWD design for the first team cars so it was not the question. The question was "is there any outstanding FWD car with a ZF9?". As far as I know the answer is NO. The ZF9 is just not a prime time transmission for the reasons so many have posted here over the years including people with current year cars. Having to drive around in sport to get close to a normal shift is ludicrous.
The only first team brands that use FWD transmissions BMW, Audi & Mercedes Benz all have avoided using the ZF9.
Its interesting to see how the company's expectations met with reality a number of years down the road. Also interesting his tap dance on the ZF9 being the go to unit for the TLX. "Hargett is tight-lipped on whether Acura will transition to an in-house transmission in the V-6 TLX".
Its pretty obvious that it was just an interim solution plugged in to get the car launched. He did not want the fans to have this confirmed or they might start asking why.
Personally am surprised that a company with ZF's reputation built around the ZF8 could do such a poor job with the ZF9. Everything I read indicates they are trying to pass the buck saying its the integration software not their hardware.
That said, have personal experience building Muncie M22/23 dog clutch 4MTs in the 1960's into "Slick Shifters". I am not surprised it would be a difficult integration in a passenger car automatic.
If only that in-house 10AT was ready and launched with the TLX. I imagine the forums would have been very, very different. I test drove the new RDX last week and that 10AT is very nice. The 2-3 shift is a bit rough but otherwise very snappy, upshift and downshift. The ZF9 serves its purpose and I've gotten used to it just fine, but I'm definitely looking forward to moving back to a transmission without the lame dog clutches (had the ZF8 on my previous vehicle and loved, loved, loved that transmission).
The ZF8 is a RWD design for the first team cars so it was not the question. The question was "is there any outstanding FWD car with a ZF9?". As far as I know the answer is NO. The ZF9 is just not a prime time transmission for the reasons so many have posted here over the years including people with current year cars. Having to drive around in sport to get close to a normal shift is ludicrous.
The only first team brands that use FWD transmissions BMW, Audi & Mercedes Benz all have avoided using the ZF9.
You are twisting the truth again. Find one single FWD ZF8 car. One. Oh you can't. That closed that flawed argument of yours.
Despite 2015 minor problems (and they are MINOR compared to the misery Acura/Honda endured with auto trannies for 6 years early 2000), the ZF9 has become a very decent transmission, no matter the whiners who confuse a lot of things to pretend a point.
And the 10-speed also has its share of complaints about reluctance to downshift in non sport(+) modes like the ZF9. And it must be compared to 2018 version of ZF9, not the early productions.
You are twisting the truth again. Find one single FWD ZF8 car. One. Oh you can't. That closed that flawed argument of yours.
Despite 2015 minor problems (and they are MINOR compared to the misery Acura/Honda endured with auto trannies for 6 years early 2000), the ZF9 has become a very decent transmission, no matter the whiners who confuse a lot of things to pretend a point.
And the 10-speed also has its share of complaints about reluctance to downshift in non sport(+) modes like the ZF9. And it must be compared to 2018 version of ZF9, not the early productions.
The only thing flawed is you ability to understand what you read. You are the absolutely last person in this forum that should make any comment on truth twisting.
A quote of the original paragraphs for your education in reading comprehension 101.
10-23-2018, 09:21 PM #47 BEAR-AvHistory Are there any outstanding cars with the ZF9?"
Follow up when you asked about FWD ZF8 avoiding answering my original question.
BEAR-AvHistory 10-23-2018, 11:26 PM #49The ZF8 is a RWD design for the first team cars so it was not the question. The question was "is there any outstanding FWD car with a ZF9?".
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 10-25-2018 at 09:42 PM.
The only thing flawed is you ability to understand what you read. You are the absolutely last person in this forum that should make any comment on truth twisting.
A quote of the original paragraph for your education in reading comprehension 101.
He agrees with us. His tranny is crap, but it was the best Acura could do until the Honda 10 speed.
He agrees with us. His tranny is crap, but it was the best Acura could do until the Honda 10 speed.
Yeah he also is working very very hard to deny that rather then use the FWD ZF9 like Acura all the upscale manufactures that have front wheel drive cars use in house developed transmissions or transmissions by the worlds largest manufacturer of automatics Aisin transmissions.
He seems to be having a lot of trouble differentiating between the transverse mounted FWD ZF9 & the longitudinal mounted RWD ZF8. Expect that is because he doesn't know squat about things automotive.
The COBRA is trapped in the garage behind a skip while we are doing some renovations & have been driving the 440 ZF8 a lot more.
When the wife is in the car run it in Comfort instead of Sport or Sport+ because I have the automatic suspensions softer settings linked to comfort. Its true that you cannot feel shifts or know what gear you are in during normal driving. The car shifts up or down & its not noticed at all. Wish there was some one here that could take a ride with me & verify my statements. Would quickly end the nonsense.
Find it interesting the JD Powers comments are the result of a 2017 V6 Advance road test, 2015 test not available. This would suggest that Saintor's its all well with the gearbox as of 2015 is not valid. He is correct to say the work around is to drive in SPORT all the time & manually shift the automatic transmission for the best driving result.
Manually shift the automatic transmission, really?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 10-27-2018 at 12:19 PM.
I found the unavailability of 15 data curious as well.
I’ve never driven my TLX in anything but Sport mode. But, I wonder if I should try Normal and/or Eco mode just to get a sense of what some have experienced. I’ve rarely tried Sport+ mainly because it’s largely impractical except when ‘racing’.
I found the unavailability of 15 data curious as well.
I’ve never driven my TLX in anything but Sport mode. But, I wonder if I should try Normal and/or Eco mode just to get a sense of what some have experienced. I’ve rarely tried Sport+ mainly because it’s largely impractical except when ‘racing’.
Depends what Sport+ vs Sport does in the TLX. In mine its pretty much a non-event not really a race only setting. Sport+ eliminates the "Kick Down" will hold gear at red line till a manual shift is made & adds Launch Control to the system. All else is the same in both Sport & Sport+.
Warning - personal attacks are not permitted in this forum. A spirited debate and differing opinions are fine however if you cross the line and attack other posters you will receive a vacation from the site.
Is straying off topic punishable with a wet noodle slap? Just curious....
The difference between the 2.4 and the 3.5 is the engine displacement and the transmission. Looking at engine displacement, the choice seems clear, but Honda was unable to pair their brilliant dual clutch transmission with the TLX v6 motor. As a result, they went with a lesser, worse ZF9 speed used predominantly by economy cars. While most of us would find this transmission fine, a number of people are disappointed with numerous apparent issues.
Some have defended the ZF9 transmission by erroneously comparing it the the ZF8 transmission used in RWD and upscale cars. So now people are trying to say "there's nothing wrong with the ZF9, Audi uses it!" but that's wrong.
Is it off topic? A little. Is it important to know the difference? Yes.
It's frustrating because I think the current TLX looks great and is well equipped for a great price, but when you buy a car, you have to live with the transmission every time you drive it.
But I do know armchair moderation is punishable around here
The difference between the 2.4 and the 3.5 is the engine displacement and the transmission. Looking at engine displacement, the choice seems clear, but Honda was unable to pair their brilliant dual clutch transmission with the TLX v6 motor. As a result, they went with a lesser, worse ZF9 speed used predominantly by economy cars. While most of us would find this transmission fine, a number of people are disappointed with numerous apparent issues.
Some have defended the ZF9 transmission by erroneously comparing it the the ZF8 transmission used in RWD and upscale cars. So now people are trying to say "there's nothing wrong with the ZF9, Audi uses it!" but that's wrong.
Is it off topic? A little. Is it important to know the difference? Yes.
It's frustrating because I think the current TLX looks great and is well equipped for a great price, but when you buy a car, you have to live with the transmission every time you drive it.
But I do know armchair moderation is punishable around here
Some excellent points. I would just add that there are many 3.5 owners that enjoy their transmission/engine displacement, including lots of folks who don't use car forums, keep their cars in normal mode, and drive in a style that minimizes any down shifting issues. Similarly, there are lots of folks who enjoy the 2.4 engine with the 8 DCT - as I do, and are even less likely to read and post on car forums. Like good food with wine, you should have the right pairing between the engine and the transmission.
Some excellent points. I would just add that there are many 3.5 owners that enjoy their transmission/engine displacement, including lots of folks who don't use car forums, keep their cars in normal mode, and drive in a style that minimizes any down shifting issues. Similarly, there are lots of folks who enjoy the 2.4 engine with the 8 DCT - as I do, and are even less likely to read and post on car forums. Like good food with wine, you should have the right pairing between the engine and the transmission.
Agree, but, always a but, if I was still in Acura Land I would be so unhappy they did not provide an upgraded 8DCT for the V6. Had a 7DCT behind my I6 for three years & was the best transmission IMHO that I ever owned going back to 1960.
A fully mechanical gearbox behind a super fast pair of clutches shifted by high speed electronics, whats not to like?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 10-28-2018 at 06:26 PM.
False. If it would be the case, it would do it in Sport +. *It does not.* You are just confused by the throttle mapping and programming.
just because it shifts better, still not as crisp as a ZF8 in higher gears does not mean the lower gear changes are not a design issue. Clearly if Acura could have mapped it better to allow for better shifting it would have. The fact that this is as good as it gets says it is at least partially a crappy design.
It is incredible how TLX- haters (read trolls) just come here to dismiss the TLX invoking lame pretexts as the transmission although there is no significant complaint from the MDX owners (same) . An AZ fashion thing, not smart. lol.
Of course.
Your name calling would be more effective if there weren't a number of TLX owners disappointed in the ZF9
Last edited by CheeseyPoofs McNut; 10-30-2018 at 07:33 AM.
That only shows how Acura takes care of the whiners and how they trust their product. Valid for old ZF9, not valid for recent ones which has no issue, despite the vain efforts of the trolls.
That only shows how Acura takes care of the whiners and how they trust their product. Valid for old ZF9, not valid for recent ones which has no issue, despite the vain efforts of the trolls.
Yeah the last thing Acura/Honda needs is loosing another transmission based class action lawsuit. Good to see they are being proactive.
BTW calling paying customers dealing with a crappy product whiners is not a very good marketing strategy.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 11-01-2018 at 10:35 AM.
10-22-2018, 05:35 PM
