rockyboy

Lately, I've fallen in love with the Kia Stinger. I never thought I would like a Kia vehicle so much, but the Kia Stinger has the IT factor. It looks great, has a luxurious interior, ample power and technology. If I got it, I would get the twin turbo v6 that produces almost 400 horsepower. The 2018 Acura TLX, while it also looks great, doesn't hit that emotional cord that the Kia Stinger hits. The Stinger is another vehicle that will be reasonably priced, that can possibly outcompete BMW, Audi, and Mercedes competing lines. Thoughts?

KeithL

Personally while the Acura may be more refined, I am betting the Kia will npbe more fun to drive. The 2 cars on my short list to replace my TLX are the Genesis G80 Sport and the Kia Stinger and likely the Genesis G70 since it is supposed to be like the Stinger.

Nothing will be as refined as the Germans, but then repairs and maintenance will be less.

kurtatx

Depends on what you want to do with it. Are you just going to drive it to and from work every day or something else? If it's just the to and from work thing, get the TLX. Otherwise, Stinger.

But if what Keith says is true, wait and get the G70. Best of both words.

rockyboy

The German luxury cars are refined in one sense, but in terms of refinement in reliability let's face it, they suck. In the past month, driving on the highway, it was all German luxury cars I saw on the side with emergency lights on and with a tow truck loading them up. Mercedes, BMW, Audi. I don't recall ever seeing a Lexus or Acura being towed. Kia has been improving, so I might give them a chance since the Stinger looks so amazing. Also, Hyundai and Kia have the best warranties. If I can grow as an individual and get past the Kia emblem, then I may very well purchase the Kia Stinger (assuming it's at a reasonable price). The thing that makes me want to purchase an electric vehicle, the government here has a $14,000 rebate on certain electric vehicles (like Tesla). So if I buy a Tesla 3, they will pay me $14,000 as a rebate. Why not a Tesla model S? TOO EXPENSIVE.

rockyboy

I want a car that can accelerate so fast on the highway that I can drive past jerks/dangerous drivers quickly; the car also has to be reliable, luxurious, and not at a rip-off price like the German luxury cars (their profit margins are too high, which means they're ripping you off). There are many of those on the road, having a car with almost 400 horsepower and does 0 to 100 km/h in about 5 seconds will definitely help. I don't want to get a German car because I don't want it to breakdown and have to call a tow truck. That will happen because I would keep the car for a long time. I will still keep my 2016 Acura RDX Elite if I get the stinger. I'm assuming the Stinger will be similarly priced as the TLX. From what I can tell, the Stinger offers more value than the TLX because the interior looks more refined, the engine is more powerful (Acura should have at least increased the horsepower on the TLX past 300), and it looks better. A test drive or two will be the deciding factor though. I stopped looking at Genesis because the prices are ridiculously high. The Genesis G80 (which is basically the Hyundai Genesis with a new name) they upped the price like $10,000+. That's insane.

kurtatx

Audi and Porsche are German and near the top of reliability. By comparison, a Tesla is completely unreliable and ridiculously expensive. And the Model 3 has the worst interior on a car I have ever seen.

BC01191980

Speaking of tesla, musk is busy building the snake oil superhighway

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I thought the Stinger 3.3T is rated at 365hp? At this moment I feel that more information is needed regarding its weight, actual performance figures, and price.

The problem I see is that the Stinger is based on the Genesis platform, which underpins the G70, G80, and G90. The G80 and G90 in particular are quite heavy in their class because of all-steel construction. Keep in mind that Hyundai manufactures steel, so to keep costs down, they would just use steel, which adds quite a bit of weight.

From my experience sitting in the G80, the interior isn't all that luxury. I believe the Stinger is based on the G70. I'd think the G70 would be worse inside than the G80, and being a Kia, I'd think the Stinger would be again a step down from the G70. So, I'm not sure if the interior would feel really luxurious once you are inside.

With that said, Kia has Audi designers, and BMW engineers, so, I do wonder if the engineers were able to make the car fun to drive despite its weight limitation.

Saintor

Competition is good. But I don't think that styling or substance will save this Kia, after the initial hit.

There is a reason why finally Genesis was moving away from Hyundai....

pyrodan007

Well at least they are trying with some pretty major/bold changes. Acura is still living happily with minute fixes being promoted as "colossal improvements".
I was reading in Jalopnik that Acura only improved the outside (and some inside) for the TLX since it sensed that people loved the drive train. Acura thought that the decrease in sales was due to the styling. I have no idea where they get this data from, but their analysts should be trained or fired ... People have complained for years about the bottle cap opener and they only finally made the change. However all the complains about turbos and transmissions means money, not what people want for now (because $$$$$). Pathetic. Nissan is not that much bigger yet they're being very bold with all the new tech in the Infiniti lineup.

deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2

AZuser

Would the Kia be elite enough to bring in those fine azz 9+ honeyz though?

F23A4

Having initially read about the upcoming Stinger and then seeing it in person at the NY Auto Show, I can say that this is the first Kia model to appear on my interest radar.

Honestly, Acura (and maybe even Infiniti and Lexus) should take notice of the powertrain offerings in the Stinger as I think they represent some extremely attractive features for enthusiasts in this segment:

Turbo 2.0L I4 - 255 hp/260 lb-ft
Optional Twin Turbo 3.3L V6 - 365 hp/376 lb-ft
Standard RWD layout with LSD
Optional AWD system with torque vectoring

Not to mention, a 5-mode electronically adjustable suspension damping system and optional Brembo front and dual caliper rear braking system.

On paper, this seems to be the real deal.

KeithL

German reliability is improving and some Audi models are doing extremely. My A6 was flawless my 2 years, sure a short period, but I have had Asian/Japanese cars that were problematic.

KeithL

True, but they are still less expensive than the competition. Loaded G80 Sport AWD twin turbo for $58K, find me something comparable for less than $65K. I would love to do another Infiniti, but a comparably equipped Q70S is $63K and lacks Android Auto or Car Play with a dated head unit and aspirated 330HP, and $73K for the V8. And the G80 has 365HP and 376 lb. ft. of torque.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

That's the way to go if Hyundai and Kia want to survive. In the past, they made cheap cars because they could afford to do so. The labour was relatively cheap. However, the labour costs have increased dramatically, and they need products with higher profit margins. You don't get high profit margins from cheap cars. You get high profit margins from premium cars. This is why they are in this market now. And when you are new to the market, you gotta be bold and be different, or offer something that will attract people. That's what Acura was able to do when it came arrived (high tech, sporty cars). Lexus also offered something really unique at a good price (refinement, comfort, quietness) when it first came out.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been enough investments for Acura in the past decade or so. The plans they had before were scraped, leaving the brand in limbo. If Honda didn't give the brand money, there's not a whole not Acura management could do about it. With that said, things seem to be changing now, as Ikeda is now saying Honda is giving more resources to Acura now. But to see real changes, it will take years.

I think one issue is that the Korean models tend look really good on paper, but in the real world, they don't quite deliver at times.

Take a look at the Veloster Turbo with 7-speed DCT:
2016 Hyundai Veloster Turbo Automatic Tested ? Review ? Car and Driver

Power: 201 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 195 lb-ft @ 1750 rpm
Curb weight: 2984 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 7.2 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 34.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 15.6 sec @ 91 mph

Now, look at the Civic Hatch Sport CVT:
2017 Honda Civic Hatchback CVT Automatic | Review | Car and Driver

Power: 180 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 162 lb-ft @ 1700 rpm
Curb weight: 3007 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 6.9 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 30.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 15.4 sec @ 93 mph

On paper, the Veloster has 30hp and 30lbft over the Civic, and it's a bit lighter. It's got a 7-speed DUAL CLUTCH tranny as opposed to a lame CVT in the Civic. One would expect the Veloster to smoke the Civic?

Nope, quite the opposite actually. The Civic is heavier with like 25% less power and torque, along with a boring CVT, and it out accelerates the Veloster. The doesn't shrink either as shown by the 0-120mph metric - the Civic is over 4 seconds faster.

IMO, it's best to wait til we see some real world figures before judging the Stinger.

Saintor

More like 10-15% but that doesn't change your point.

rockyboy

Yes. Because it looks like a BMW/Audi and was designed by BMW/Audi designers. Also, interior looks like a mercedes and it goes really fast.

rockyboy

The Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Kia Cadenza, K900 and Kia Sorento are decent vehicles from that company. K900 is on sale right now, $6750 Canadian off. If the Kia Stinger performs well, it might become a game changer. I hope it does because then you would have a nice sports sedan at a reasonable price, and this might also force some of the other companies to drop their prices.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, for me, it comes down to what it can do in the real world, and how much it will be. It looks like it has the ingredients to do well though.

What would be its competitors though?

F23A4

Good question! Ford Fusion Sport? Genesis G70?

RDX10

Nissan 370Z, mustangs, camaro, charger? Not really sure haha.


But about your comment above in terms of the Koreans looking good on paper, I actually do agree in some respects. I have a 2012 Sorento SX that does 0-60 in 6.8-7.0s and it weighs about 4000 pounds with a 276hp DOHC engine, whereas the 2016 RDX has has a 278hp SOHC engine and weighs about 4000 pounds and yet the RDX does 0-60 in 6.0s. Granted the sorento weighs around 4100-4150, but I don't see how that extra 100-150 pounds results in a whole second slower 0-60 time.

I have driven numerous Honda V6's and it feels (to me) that at the low end the engine don't come alive till vtec kicks in. Whereas if I am not paying attention the Sorento will throw me in my seat due to a hyper touchy accelerator pedal and great low end torque. I drove both the the pre and post lift RDX numerous times and although they felt slower, the official specs don't lie because those are from multiple sources. I personally really dislike the J-series engine but for whatever reason it really does haul ass.

Now in terms of other Korean models, the feeling is still the same. You have all these figures and values that are GREAT on paper but for some reason do not translate in real life and I can't figure out why. I know that for the turbo models, Kia and Hyundai REALLY restrict boost in the first 2 gears and I also beleive in between gears as well. The 2011 Kia sportage with 2.0T was doing 0-60 on 5.6-6.0 seconds while the 2012 models had a software revision making the 0-60 happen in 7.8-8.4s. There was talk on the forums that Kia pulled back boost in between gears to protect wear on the transmissions essentially turning a 260hp/269lbft 3600 pound car into a turd.

kurtatx

I dunno, man. That Kia logo though. Lol

Also, the interior may look like a Mercedes, but when you get right down to it...

boe_d

I think the fact that people are asking kia or acura says a lot about how far KIA has come and how far down acura has gone down.

Sloppy305

I Saw it in person...not my taste. Based only on looks...I wasn't impressed. The car is pretty big if you are comparing it to a TLX. Are they even on the same class? I would compare it more to a A7.
Maybe it was the color...maybe I was just too tired after seeing so many cars... 😊
The car wasn't open so we couldn't get in, but from the outside looking in..well...I'll leave it up to you:

a35tl

^^^^^^
I don't think the Stinger looks bad but it is a bit over styled for my taste. Probably going to be a decent car though.

Kense

Youre not alone, I don't get the hype. I actually think it's ugly. Looks like they are trying to be an Audi A5 sportback but failed.

Saintor

And its front end can't say 'Bloated Kia' enough.

F23A4

Styling is busy. I think it would look more upscale if it didn't have some of the "aesthetic noise" but I do applaud the effort.

Powertrain aside, I'm eager see how it does in the area of chassis dynamics. If it's a confident handler, it'll go a long way with the sports sedan enthusiast crowd.

kurtatx

I think Kia needs a performance line, personally. They make solid vehicles (even if they are hand me down Hyundai's), but brand cache means a lot in the market Kia is trying reach.

BEAR-AvHistory

In the pictures the car looks big. Bigger than I would buy. That said if it has muscle & agility to go with its size it should sell well. One year on we have had no issues with our Genesis R-Spec Coupe. Hyundai is doing well world wide & has a lot of resources behind it, no reason they can't screw together some good cars.

nanxun

Chief designer at KIA, Hyundai, and Genesis is the German-born and educated Herr Schreyer, who did work for Audi and VW until moving to KIA in 2006. Apparently the Stinger was designed by a team based in Frankfurt.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/25/peter-schreyer-hyundai-kia-genesis-design/

http://www.motortrend.com/news/peter-schreyer-2018-kia-stinger-gt-development-nobody-said-no/

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The Ford Fusion Sport, and may be the Charger I guess. I'd pick the Stinger out of these based on the specs. Haha the 370Z, camaro, mustang are two-door coupes though....

As for the engines, I think it's due to the throttle calibration. In my experience, it's quite easy to drive Honda's comfortably without worrying the gas pedal being too touchy. I had a Yaris and 2G TL-S before. The Yaris almost felt like it was more powerful than my TL lol. You really need to press it far down before the TL says "alright you want some fun, ok let's go!"

Nowadays, with the different driving modes, I'm not sure if things are "better" for Acura. For instance, if you turn the knob to sport + in the TLX, is the gas pedal very sensitive?

Acura has always been a Honda+. But in recent years, Honda is becoming Honda+ as well, whereas Acura stays relatively the same. Since Kia competes with Honda, and Honda is like Acura now, so you get a situation where Kia is mentioned alongside Acura.

Isn't the Stinger a sporty version of the upcoming Genesis G70, which competes with 3 series and is a smaller version of G80? May be it's the color hah. But I think when i saw it in person, it felt large as well.

I think Kia IS the performance line of the Hyundai group going forward.

Hyundai - bread and butter line
Kia - performance line
Genesis - luxury line

kurtatx

It's a bit more complicated than that as Hyundai only owns a third of Kia, but I guess that makes sense.

RDX10

You are right, it is a bit more complicated than that. But what he said was correct for the most part. Just look at the drivetrain setups for example, the tucson and sportage are platform mates and share a lot, however the sportage offers a 2.0T while the largest engine in the tucson is a 1.6T. The 2007-2012 santa fe and 2011-2013 Sorento were on the same platform and believe me, my 2012 Sorento handles NOTHING like my 2009 santa fe or my 2007 santa fe limited before that despite both having 18" wheels. The santa fe is floaty and soft, soft electric power steering. Whereas the Sorento is firm and sporty with true hydraulic and heavy power steering.

Just go and drive the comparable Hyundai to Kia model and you'll see what I mean. Hyundai is trying to be premium, Kia sporty, and Genesis performance luxury. Even in terms of looks, Kias are MUCH more aggressive than their Hyundai counterparts.

MSZ

Genesis had stated publicly that Stinger is actually a GT car, G70 will have a shorter overall length and wheelbase, lighter and faster 0 to 60 time. Stinger may be a 3 series competitor price wise, but performance wise G70 is closer to compete with other German rivals.

TacoBello

And the TLX can't say "boring ass shit, with no fucking power, confused style, a shit transmission and fanboi followers" enough. What's your point?

Same shit, different pile, no?

RDX10

No. The Stinger isn't shit. :wink:

TacoBello

You're right. It's a bad ass car, from a brand that's been considered shit for so long... and now they are handily out doing acura in every sense of the word. How fucking embarrassing. Too bad car stigmas die hard. Kias are still considered shit even though they're not, and Acuras are still considered awesome even though they're not.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

RDX10

It's going to take another decade for the Kia stigma to die down I think. In the meantime they continue building cars that punch well above their weight and someday people will wake up and be like holy shit. With every generation they make huge and very integral
changes to their vehicles unlike Acura which is honestly stagnant at this point.

2003 1G sorento was crap with a 190hp 3.5l and 4 speed auto, 2007 facelift brought projectors, 242hp 3.3l or 268hp 3.8p and 5 speed auto, 2011 was a major overhaul to car a based platform and it got a SHIT TON of upgrades and the power train moved up to a 6 speed auto and 276hp 3.5l, 2014 saw it switch to a new more rigid platform and the engine switched to a 290hp 3.3L V6 and they did a BUNCH of changes and overhauled everything. Now in the 2016 sorento they again changed the platform and added a shit ton of changes. The 2018/2019 sorento is rumoured to be getting a turbo V6 and 8 speed auto. Go and sit in a Sorento SXL (SX+ here) and I guarantee you will be blown out of the water with how luxurious and well put together it is. I (without reservation) think it is FAR superior to the MDX. But just really pay attention it. It has suede headliner and all the pillars (only luxury cars do this nowadays), the glove box is lined with a soft felt as is the center console (the RDX and I think even MDX don't have this)....etc. They really are cranking out very good looking and high quality cars. I'm not going to lie and say I don't sometimes hate the badge, but at the same time I don't give a shit what people think, I love my Sorento and it's probably the first car (out of 9 so far) I bought that I am content with and don't see myself changing for a few years. Everything else I wanted out after a month.

boe_d

I like the sports mesh grill a lot. I don't need the chrome near the front door but over all it seems to FLOW - an issue with the current TLX cobbled together look.