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2015 TLX Advance - New Owner - Condensation in Light - Who Pays For Warranty?

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2015 TLX Advance - New Owner - Condensation in Light - Who Pays For Warranty?

Old 12-05-2018, 10:21 AM
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2015 TLX Advance - New Owner - Condensation in Light - Who Pays For Warranty?

Lurked here for years, but this is my first post.

Just purchased my 4th Acura - 2015 TLX Advance Package.

Noticed when I picked up the car there was some condensation in the taillight. Mentioned it to the dealer, he said it was a common problem that wouldn't get fixed as a CPO. While completing paperwork I noticed the CPO checklist includes checking for moisture and was marked "passed". I asked about it and was told regardless it wouldn't be repaired or covered. I had the dealer change the checklist and initial it so I had some type of evidence I brought It up.

Inquired about a good-will repair with Acura Client Care since it was my 4th car and 1k miles out of warranty, and they said the service dept. would have to fight for that -> dealer told me they would have to pay and were already losing money (because you know how dealers always lose money on every car they sell). Car has 51k miles (1k out of factory warranty, and was 600 out of warranty yesterday when I bought it yesterday).

Basically, had I not noticed it on the CPO checklist I wouldn't of cared - and it does seem like a fairly common issue that would likely occur again (or on a different light) sooner or later anyways.

Any opinion - should I bother fighting this? And does a dealer really pay for a goodwill repair? I thought out of warranty Acura reimburses dealer for a good-will repair (if Acura approves it)? Client Care did make clear 1/12k CPO warranty does NOT cover moisture.

Thanks!
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:57 PM
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I'd bring it up just for my sanity to Acura of America.
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Old 12-05-2018, 03:12 PM
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I'd push one more time with ACS. Both can pay for goodwill warranty but it really depends. Dealerships pay when they think you are a good customer and will come back and spend more with them. ACS does pay for "goodwill" warranty on case by case basis. But in your case, it's kinda dealer fault that they didn't fix the moisture before certifying the car.

If I was in your situation, I'd probably would not have continued with the signing and taken delivery of the car. I mean if you signed the papers, it meant you were okay with the car and it's condition, right?
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Old 12-05-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hadokenuh View Post
If I was in your situation, I'd probably would not have continued with the signing and taken delivery of the car. I mean if you signed the papers, it meant you were okay with the car and it's condition, right?

Agree
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Old 12-05-2018, 03:19 PM
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Doesn't CPO purchase extend the original warranty 1 year / 12,000 miles??? It's been a while since I purchased a CPO car so things may have changed...........
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:48 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.

As I had mentioned, I'm OK with it as-is. It wasn't an issue to me until I realized it should of been part of the CPO deal. I could of walked away, but price was right, car was right, and it was about a 2-hour trek I didn't want to have to make repeatedly.

I did put a call into the GM to discuss that - and also to discuss the timing-belt squeak - which when I asked the salesman he said its covered under CPO warranty - and I could take it to local shop. However, the local shop just told me the CPO warranty kicks in AFTER 30-days, and the originating dealer is responsible for repairs in the first 30-days of ownership.

The CPO does give a 1/year 12k mile warranty, and 7 year/100k (from original in-service date). The CPO does not cover moisture (although the factory warranty does) as I've been told by two people at Acura.

Thoiboi - when you say bring it up w/ Acura of America - do you mean Acura Client Relations or someone else? I did bring it up with Acura Client relations - they said they would note it in case any problems occurred down the road as a result.

Thanks for the input! Again, not trying to nickel and dime a dealer - if I wanted a perfect car I'd of bought a new one. I dont' care about wear and tear - car drives greatI have no complaints - just didn't sit right with me after the fact it's a CPO vehicle that didn't meet the CPO criteria. I'll keep you folks posted on any updates from dealer. I only addressed it with the sales guy.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:56 PM
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Yeah. ACR is correct! Forgot the nomenclature .



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Old 12-05-2018, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jvah1980 View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

As I had mentioned, I'm OK with it as-is. It wasn't an issue to me until I realized it should of been part of the CPO deal. I could of walked away, but price was right, car was right, and it was about a 2-hour trek I didn't want to have to make repeatedly.

I did put a call into the GM to discuss that - and also to discuss the timing-belt squeak - which when I asked the salesman he said its covered under CPO warranty - and I could take it to local shop. However, the local shop just told me the CPO warranty kicks in AFTER 30-days, and the originating dealer is responsible for repairs in the first 30-days of ownership.

The CPO does give a 1/year 12k mile warranty, and 7 year/100k (from original in-service date). The CPO does not cover moisture (although the factory warranty does) as I've been told by two people at Acura.

Thoiboi - when you say bring it up w/ Acura of America - do you mean Acura Client Relations or someone else? I did bring it up with Acura Client relations - they said they would note it in case any problems occurred down the road as a result.

Thanks for the input! Again, not trying to nickel and dime a dealer - if I wanted a perfect car I'd of bought a new one. I dont' care about wear and tear - car drives greatI have no complaints - just didn't sit right with me after the fact it's a CPO vehicle that didn't meet the CPO criteria. I'll keep you folks posted on any updates from dealer. I only addressed it with the sales guy.
I agree that it should have been caught and replaced under the CPO inspection. I would push to have the taillight replaced. What may be a cosmetic issue right now may become a safety issue later if the LEDs fail prematurely due to excessive moisture.

I had the same taillight issue on my 2018 TLX and had it replaced just this past week. According to the dealer, its a fairly common issue. QC seems to be lacking a bit.

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Old 12-05-2018, 10:38 PM
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My Wife had a tailgate light fail after a long drive in a rain storm on her MDX, and it had less condensation than that. It was replaced just inside the factory warranty. I personally would have told them I would only take the car if that was addressed.

For now, in your case, I would pull the reverse bulb out, heat the lamp with a hair dryer/heatgun on low, and give that moisture a way to escape.

Last edited by Mr Hyde; 12-05-2018 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:07 AM
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Once moisture is in, it's hard to get out. Mr Hyde suggested the best (really the only) fix. That will only be temporary until the root cause is fixed. Either a wiring or bulb grommet/seal is bad or the plastic housing is cracked. Until it's fixed or replaced, condensation will continue to occur after rain and car washes.

You may be getting pushback because the housing and its integrated LED are quite expensive. I agree it should have been replaced as a CPO car. It's always best to negotiate fixes before delivery, but regardless, you spent a lot of money on what shouldn't have passed an inspection. Acura CPO warranty states: ďDuring the first 12 months/12,000 miles, Acura will repair or replace any covered part that is defective in material or workmanship under normal use. All repairs or replacements under this limited warranty will be made free of charge with no deductible.Ē

Here is what I would do - ask if this is a manufacturers defect. If they say yes, ask why it wouldn't be covered. If they say no, ask what else could have caused it. The only logical alternative would be abuse or damage. It's on them to prove the taillight was neglected or in an accident, not defective. Always remember you get more bees with honey than vinegar. Be polite but assertive, not confrontational. Especially remember that the TLX has bigger issues that are even costlier to fix. You really want your dealer on your side for those issues (transmission, vibrations, electronics, etc.). You may not want to die on the taillight hill, but this really ought to be covered under warranty IMO.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:16 PM
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Thanks - I double checked - and later in the warranty it says:

"BATTERIES & BULBS Batteries (except for nickel-metal hydride, lithium-ion, and polymer lithium-ion batteries used in hybrid vehicles); battery cables; high-intensity discharge (HID) headlight assembly; sealed beams; bulbs (with the exception of the instrument cluster bulbs); LEDs (light-emitting diodes) and fuses" in the exclusion list.

Still waiting to hear back from GM of the dealership - but I'll keep you all updated.
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:20 PM
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Understand that there are two parts to the lights (be they heads, tails, etc.)

the tail light assembly is the plastic enclosure. The tail light itself has the bulb or LED boards. If it's leaking, the assembly could be at fault which will eventually cause the tail light LED board or bulb to fail (which is not covered under warranty as it is deemed a consumable).


THe former should be covered if defective.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
Understand that there are two parts to the lights (be they heads, tails, etc.)

the tail light assembly is the plastic enclosure. The tail light itself has the bulb or LED boards. If it's leaking, the assembly could be at fault which will eventually cause the tail light LED board or bulb to fail (which is not covered under warranty as it is deemed a consumable).


THe former should be covered if defective.
interesting. I read sealed beams as (sealed enclosures). Maybe Iíll double back to Client relations and have them indicate where taillight is excluded.

For reference my tail is virtually identical to the one posted previously.
Thanks
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:18 AM
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jvah1980 View Post
Thanks - I double checked - and later in the warranty it says:

"BATTERIES & BULBS Batteries (except for nickel-metal hydride, lithium-ion, and polymer lithium-ion batteries used in hybrid vehicles); battery cables; high-intensity discharge (HID) headlight assembly; sealed beams; bulbs (with the exception of the instrument cluster bulbs); LEDs (light-emitting diodes) and fuses" in the exclusion list.

I didn’t go that far in my research, but wow, that’s a lengthy exclusion list just for batteries and bulbs. It makes the CPO warranty (I pasted above) sort of laughable and less appealing when you need it and start reading the fine print. This is why I don’t futz around with extended warranties, ESPECIALLY third party ones. In my experience, every failure turns into a legal negotiation about coverage. I’m fortunate to know cars and have had success persuading warranties and dealers to cover things they refused, even wear items like CV axles and tie rods. I’m afraid the general public doesn’t know any better when these companies deflect due to legal technicalities. They profit by fixing as little as possible.

Based on what you copied and pasted, they are off the hook for headlamp entirely (assembly and bulbs) even if it was a defect. That’s unfortunate because those are very expensive. However, I see nothing in this list that absolves them from the taillight condensation problem. The pictures you guys are sharing are not normal. Air and moisture are getting into the housing. They can’t possibly claim it’s a failure of the LEDs.

Sealed beam refers to ancient headlight design where bulbs were sealed in the lamp. Bulbs couldn’t be replaced. The whole housing came as a unit – lens, bulb, the whole thing bolted to the car and was reconnected to the vehicle wiring harness. Manufacturers phased these out in the 1980s and 90s. The only possible Acuras with these would be their very early Legends and Integras. For it to show up in this CPO language is totally obsolete/moot.

Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
Understand that there are two parts to the lights (be they heads, tails, etc.)

the tail light assembly is the plastic enclosure. The tail light itself has the bulb or LED boards. If it's leaking, the assembly could be at fault which will eventually cause the tail light LED board or bulb to fail (which is not covered under warranty as it is deemed a consumable).

THe former should be covered if defective.

I agree with thoiboi. Any competent, honest service advisor would agree too.

Last edited by someguy11; 12-07-2018 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:07 PM
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Just to follow up - I did send an email to the service manager. He called me back almost immediately and basically said "Sir.. don't worry about any of this - I'll take care of everything" (meaning the light, and the chirping noise at idle I noticed after the car warms up). It's a bit inconvenient to make the 2 hour drive, but I just got a TLX... Honestly, there aren't many other places I'd rather be than in an excuse to drive my new car for four hours!

I'll keep you posted on any updates.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jvah1980 View Post


interesting. I read sealed beams as (sealed enclosures). Maybe Iíll double back to Client relations and have them indicate where taillight is excluded.

For reference my tail is virtually identical to the one posted previously.
Thanks
Sealed beam is an old term

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Old 12-07-2018, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jvah1980 View Post
Just to follow up - I did send an email to the service manager. He called me back almost immediately and basically said "Sir.. don't worry about any of this - I'll take care of everything" (meaning the light, and the chirping noise at idle I noticed after the car warms up). It's a bit inconvenient to make the 2 hour drive, but I just got a TLX... Honestly, there aren't many other places I'd rather be than in an excuse to drive my new car for four hours!

I'll keep you posted on any updates.
Sounds like they are going to take care of it. It's rough to not have a close dealer to get things fixed. Not sure I would purchase a car without a dealer nearby. Fortunately my local dealer is 15 mins and there are 3 others within 45 mins. I know some have bad experience with the Acura dealers but from the service I have experienced it's one reason why I stick with the brand. Hit a bad pothole and took it in as two of the rims where not pretty but they replaced both rims and tires under the wheel insurance no problem. Paid for an alignment but got the car back and noticed a slight pull with the steering wheel slightly off center. Brought it back and they determined the control arm was slightly tweaked and gave me a loaner and replaced that under the warranty. Got it back and tracked perfect but the wheel was a hair off center. Took it back and they brought it right into the shop and hooked up all the stuff on each wheel and then had me come out and set the wheel for what I thought was straight. 10 mins later out the door. Never gave me a hard time but it was a few trips so if it was 2hrs each way I would have been pretty upset with it all. They have also good willed a couple repairs on other cars I have had that were out of warranty. They never have try to oversell me when in for service which is something I really like.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:57 PM
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The good news is I have an awesome local Acura dealer with great service dept. They just didnít have what I was looking for. Once we fix these first few quirks all future CPO stuff and maintenance will get done with my local dealer.

But as I said, there are worse things in life than listening to the ELS sound system for 2 hours, especially given I still have some of my old DTS CDs.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:05 PM
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Just to follow up on this - the dealer did infact swap out the light with condensation and replaced with another assembly. All is good now. Iím glad I pushed for it given the potential price to repair down the line. Of course there are no guarantees it wonít happen again, but for now no complaints.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:12 PM
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perseverance pays off!
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