jimcol711

I think i must be missing something...i dont understand all the hoopla about freakin bimmers...ive never owned one of my own but i know plenty of people who have owned them or currently owned them. EVERY single person i know that has owned a bimmer has had more service problems than they care to remember. (we are talking 95 325 coupe, 99 327 4 door, 2000 5 series, and a mid 80's 5 series.) everyone i know has complained that the cars break down way more than they should and that service is ridiculously priced...not only that but the cars all look the same, the interiors are so plain and unimaginative and every BMW is way overpriced....not to mention that any bimmer pre early 90's is so ass ugly i dont see how anyone would want to be seen driving one. ok ok ok M3, M5 performance cars those 2 cars are nice...and rare enough to be cool but everyone and their grandmother from 16 year old kids to 70 year old grannies has a 3 series or a 5 series...why be so typical? why does everyone sweat these cars sooo bad? like i said, maybe im missing something but all i know is that they break down, require high priced service, are very plain looking..especially inside, are incredibly over priced, and everyone has one....i may bitch about my CL-S rattling or whatever but ill take that any day over a plain jane 3 series or even a 5 series....at least the CL-S isnt at every street corner and in every yuppies driveway...

Smitty02CLs

My g-friend has a new 330i, I personally would take my CLs over it any day, it's doesn't fell right to me. You get alot more for your money in an Acura, my 02 cents

CharlesNguyen

It's kind of a status symbol, that's why many yuppies have them.
They do make the drivers have a connection w/ cars & roads.
The only ones that look good are the M3s, M5s, ect..
Yes they're overpriced, & not worth for bang-for-the bucks.

Like I said, status symbol.....

jimcol711

if anything, i think the CL-S is more of a status symbol than a new 330i...ALOT more people notice me in my CL-S than they would in a 330i or even a 5 series...people dont give those things a second glance around here, but my CL-S stands out for sure

CharlesNguyen

True, I see tons of bimmers, but hardly any CLs, & mine do get lots of looks

oldfart

Nah, you guys aren't looking at the whole picture. The BMW is the gold standard for sports sedans--period. It has worked hard year after year to fine tune it into a car that does everything from a performance perspective well--handling, acceleration, braking are great. When taken as a whole package, no one does it better. Sure, others have single dimensions that are better (like the G's acceleration) but nobody puts the whole performance package together better--it's the target that everybody shoots for.

Having said that, however, there are a couple of dimensions of the BMW that suck--it costs too much to buy and repair and it breaks down too much and the styling is nothing to write home about anymore.

It's interesting that on a G forum the BMW guys are trying to explain away the noisiness of their car compared to the G by saying that noise is a design feature!!!They say that they want the noise and like it that way! hahahaha. By that standard they should loosen up a few more bolts (to go with all of those loose ones in their head).

soopa

the thing about bimmers is the quality & attention to detail.


they use high quality materials... pay an extreme amount of attention to the most minute details... just to make sure everything "feels" right.

the buttons on a BMW feel just perfect. The only manufacturer that can touch them in this level of quality is Audi.


Both of these companies set aside vast amounts of resources towards worrying about the small things. This is something Acura does not do.


one of my best friends has a new 2002 BMW 325i. The feel of the car makes mine feel like a worn out whore... the beemer is super smooth... quiet... handles like a champ... and just simply feels good.

BUT... I love my car cuz I get awesome power... tons of features they only have as options... and UNIQUENESS... the most important thing BMW is lacking.

3-series are literally a dime a dozen. In any given "pack" of cars on the road... your bound to see a 3-series in the group. Whereas with the CL... you see maybe 1-4 a day... and rarely modified.


I love both cars. I would have no complaints about owning a BMW... but if I was buying again... I can't say I'd pass up the CL.

The grass is always greener. and what do those who are jealous do? Talk about how much better what THEY HAVE is.



For a good article on how Audi (and BMW follows the same rules) goes about making sure their cars feel right...


Control Haptics Team at Audi.
http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/haptics/content.shtml

cob3683

I happen to think MB is a hell of a lot better. Audi is good, but both fall behind the Benz.

scalbert

BTW, there was no '99 327 4 Door... There was an E46 328i Sedan...

Everyone has different tastes when it comes to styling. But riding in one with a person who bought it just for the symbol provides no feel for the cars intended purpose.

Now get behind the wheel and go to the track or the mountains and DRIVE it hard and you get the picture...

someguy

BMW does spend millions of dollars on sound research. They try to isolate the "bad" sounds and let thought the "good" sounds. Most enthusiasts want to hear exaust noise and the engine rev when you hit the gas. Notice how many people get performance exhausts, etc.

You are right, in terms of the overall package, BMW has it. The 3 series is good in almost every respect. Great suspension tuning, great engine, gearbox, brakes, interior layout, etc...

someguy

Mercedes USED to be tank like with incredible build quality, they have slipped a lot.

https://ssl.bergen.net/cjw/h840s.jpg

amir was here

bmw are the coolest cars ever made in mass production.

someguy

Ass ugly?

been drinking?

Just a few of what I consider to be gorgeus pre-1990 BMWs

cusdaddy

BMW's are nice, but here in Fairfield County, they are one of the most common cars on the road. The parking garage at the business I work at, almost HALF!!! yes, HALF of the cars parked are BMW's. (probably 40+) On any given day, there are 5 E46 M3's parked, yet only one CL-S (mine).

2 of my co-workers who have 330's care less about the handling, performance. They like it because it's a BMW. Total status symbol.

They are nice cars, but way overpriced. That's one reason why I am happy that other manufacturers (even GM maybe) can compete, because competition drives prices down. There is no reason whatsoever the 3 series should cost so much (I won't even get started on the M3/5)

nate'sCLS

Think Chrysler.

gto2050

I guess it's hard to explain. While American auto companies were complaining and whining about the gas crisis in 1973 with the huge hogs American cars had become, Germany was busy building the Mercedes 220 series and BMW was building the infamous Bavaria and 2002tii sedans. I owned a 1974 BMW Bavaria which later became the 530i in 1975. They were stark, light, incredible performing cars with a slant six with 2 Zenith INAT carbs. They were a bitch to keep synchronized but they got great mileage and handled well. They were rear wheel drive but then so was everything else. After owning one, I was hooked. I knew what road handling was all about.

Then later I bought a 1982 BMW 633CSi coupe. Same engine but with Bosch fuel injection. A little heavier than before but the handling was even more incredible. I put 100,000 miles on that one and sold it for $10,000 after buying it for $25,000 which in 1983 was a whole lot more money than it is today. I kept my 1974 Bavaria for 10 years. I paid $5700 for it, drove it for 4 years on a lease. Bought it for $2700 at the end of the lease and later sold it for $5000 to a friend who still has it today.

They have promoted themselves as the Ultimate Driving Machine for over 25 years. There is a little myth behind it. Today they are better engineered and very well built. I will own another. Maybe my next car will be a 330I. I love automobiles and while I have a great affection for my Acura CL, it doesn't evoke the passion that a finely crafted machine will. Of all the cars I have owned, 3 stand out. 74 BMW Bavaria, 82 BMW 633CSi, and a Mitsubishi 3000GT. All were way ahead of their time for the period which they were made. I am not a snob. I own a 1991 Ford Exploder Beater, 2001 CL-S, 68 LeMans Convertible, 91 Harley FXR, 2000 Audi A6 and none of them except the leMans and the harley evokes any emotion at all.

My next car has to be more exciting. I like the Infiniti G35, 350ZX, BMW 330CI, and I may just opt for a like new 96 300ZX. I've always wanted one of those. Now..... having said all that, the CL-S 6 speed is starting to evoke a little passion.

Chrisbert

They have a following. Just like the American cars of old, beaucoup problems, but people kept on buying them.

cob3683

Yall keep saying that but there are only (I think) 2 cars built at joint factories that MB builds: The slk and M class. To the people who think that they are Chryslers: Have you ever actually sat in a MB? THEY SHARE NONE OF THE SAME PARTS. Just because MB and DC are in a joint effort, it doesnt mean that MB is Chrysler. My moms SC430 has Toyota parts in it but every MB I have ever seen does not have ANY Chrysler parts.

gavriil

Here we go once again trying to explain the "BMW Factor". Beyond sad.

nate'sCLS

It's not so much MB's having Chysler parts that should be a concern to MB enthusiasts. It is the new Chysler prototypes seen containing MB parts that I wonder about.

About the SC430 though, It reminded me of my dad ordering touch-up paint for his Deville from Cadillac the other day and they told him to pick it up at Chevrolet. Like, How could he forget the Cad was a "dressed up" Chevrolet....

ItalianStallion

what are you smoking? BMW is overall the ultimate driving machine. the pricing may be nothing to write home about but has a german car ever? so you shouldnt expect it to be. and yeah the 323 and 325 are on ever street corner at a yuppies house but the 330Ci is amazing, the price is high, true but dont rip on a car company because all you have seen driven is a couple of 4 pots an oldie and a 6 pot 5 series. my dad has the 540i and he's no friggin yuppie. 528's and 530's are for yuppies. dont rip on all the BMW cars expcept the M3 and M5. o yeah and one more thing, the new styles are GREAT you all are weird. ill take home a 745 in a heart beat.

codehead

With the C class, MB has let quality slip in a big way in order to compete on price. Both BMW and Acura beat them in quality at their low end. I don't know this first hand on the Benz, but have heard it from several friends and people in the auto industry. (One of these friends owns a Porche repair shop--and he has a Benz for his wife, so I know he doesn't just dislike them; he puts BMW ahead of MB in general too, as far as quality.)

codehead

I think the 330ci is an awesome car--not that it's perfect at any one thing, but it's an incredible balance of engineering. For me it costs too much for that "perfection". So far, I like my CL-S 6MT more every time I get in it. Not quite the perfection of the 330ci, but it has a nice personality, and it's an outstanding value.

TypeSKid

YESSUR.

BMW will always be trying to CATCH Mercedes Benz.


Mercedes Benz is the best automobile on the road.

More reliable, safer, and the attention to detail is much more refined than BMW.


My next car will be an //AMG, not sure which one yet, but I definitely will have one someday...

nate'sCLS

Wow, I've never met a lotto winner before... congrats
Let me know which one you decide on, or hell, just collect them all.

Weasel_RENAMED

It's easy...

...drive one.

A car can be more than the sum of its parts.

nate'sCLS

Just so long as its price does not grossly exceed that sum...IMO

Infamous425

gimme the benzo... if a fuse blows the engine wont light itself on fire

eclipse23

GT,

Very good post. In topics like this I like to see past owners opinions. Very well put.

someguy

I suppose that's why the BMW E46 3 series is one of the top ten best selling cars worldwide

nate'sCLS

Notice the IMO at the tail end. That should tell you that this is how <b> I </B> felt about it. Not you and the other top ten buyers of the world. But it is always interesting to see people still like to follow the pack.

Type S

yah..but i only like its m series cars....especially e36 m3...maybe people like it because of its name....loud and clear....but the price is not reasonable.... re sell price is terrible too

Paul

I personally have had a bmw before and know alot of people that had or still have one. In my opinion, BMW's interior looks and feel cheaper than a civic. Ok, the feel for the road is great. But THats about it. Everyone has one, its so boring. Wayyyyy overpriced. If they drop the price about $3k more plus the euro delivery option. Then the price is more resonable. And yes, alot of problems with them. My lights died after a month, windows wouldnt go back up, etc etc. And they give u fords as loaners, u pay $50k for a car cause u want to look good, and when u bring it in for service, they give u a $20k car... what are ur clients gonna think when they see u driving in that... The handling is not all that great either, its better than most cars, but do people really use it? 90% of bmw owners dont even use that, the rest races so much that they have to hook it up anyways. Basically bmws are a waste of money, now MB are different. Great quailty, great ride.....

scalbert

Obviously the interior aspects are very subjective. But I find the interior quality tops. Every material surface is of excellent quality. All switch gear is firm and positive to use just screaming quality. You turn a knob or depress a switch and it feel like it should, touch and reaction.

They must treat you Jersey guys bad, when I have dropped off my wife's E46 328i I have gotten an equal 3-Series, 528i, 540i, and the last one was a Z3 3.0 Coupe (fun as heck to toss around). Most Atlanta Acura dealers hardly ever have a loaner. But things are always different across the country...

I have to disagree about the handling but agree that most don't use it. I find the handling excellent and so controllable. Way better than all other vehicles in the same or near categories.

zeroday

am I the only one who can't understand how anyone can think the BMW interior (3 series in particular) is cheap looking? My buddy has a 330ci and the interior of it is really classy looking with alot of attention to detail (his is tan leather w/aluminum trim) and very functional. His seats have a cool adjustment that let you extend/ retract the forward portion of the bottom seat cushion. At night, it feels like you are in the cockpit of a plane... the illumination is really nice; there's an overhead dash illumination light that would be perfect in the CL (non-navi is too dark at night). How anyone can compare this to a honda civic I have no idea. I think the interior is one of the highlights of this car. I guess I can't even see how it could be subjective.

gto2050

To each his own. I like BMW's I don't like Mercedes. But that's my opinion. Audi's are okay but they seem to be lacking in the HP dept. AT the NY Auto show, I sat in the 330Ci and while it looked great, when I shut the driver's side door, it sounded like a rental Neon. The passenger side was fine so maybe it was just the show car.

You guys are ready to break into a fight over this. What's up with that?

Tom T

Simple... Primarily a rock solid feel & handling. I have a 2002 325ci & it's a beauty. I loved my '97 CL that I recently sold, but the Bimmer does have a different feel plus I love the rear wheel drive. Tom

TypeSKid

LOTTO WINNER?


It ain't like they are $100K dude.


I work for a Fortune 50 company, sales, I think an AMG is in my price range...

nate'sCLS

Haha... what are you wating for then dude?? :P

nate'sCLS

The CL 55 and SL 55 are over $100k. But you must have something else in mind. :pfawk: