zamo

At least for my sister,

Her 2000 325i was lemoned after 4 failed attempts to correct a problem with water getting inside the car.

Today, her lease return day (2002 325i) the car just died. It was towed to the BMW dealer and it seems to be a timing chain problem (unconfirmed) . It is the second time the car gets towed to the BMW dealer for engine problems.

Good for her that she know has a Lexus. She has assured it was going to be the last BMW she purchased/leased.

Any comments?

Edit: 2000 instead 1999

dom

Wasn't 99 the first year of the current gen 3 series?

zamo

correct

and my bad, it was not a 99, but a 2000 BMW

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Sounds to me like a reason to change to a different mark. She'll probably have bad luck with a BMW again if she gets another one.

F23A4

FWIW, I dont think the Germans are as adept at working out 1st year kinks as Japanese automakers. As a matter of fact, most of those kinks sustain themselves throughout a model's lifecycle.

But, here's a quote that puts a "unique" angle on this:

“The competitors are getting more reliable, rather than Germans getting less reliable,” Graham Whyte, an editor at UK-based newcarnet.co.uk, an online guide to new cars, told DW-WORLD

From this article

(total copout, IMHO)

ianS

Also, there are no 99 or 00 325 or 330! 99 & 00 are 323 & 328. My 00 328i is a piece of crap! I just have my vanos replaced 2 weeks ago (VTEC of BMW) and now my tranny is gone! My car need to visit dealer at least 10 times a year!

F23A4

more like the 'i' in DOHC iVTEC applications.

zamo

I forgot; although it was a 2.5 liter, you are correct, for 2000 it was a 323i.

So you are having trouble too. Extended warranty taking care of you?

ianS

No, I think VANOS is just another name of VTEC and iVTEC is way more advance than VANOS even Double VANOS is still lag behind in the technology department.

ianS

No the extended warranty didn't cover my VANOS issue and still fighting for this and now dunno about the tranny issue yet, they want to blame it on my ssk!

F23A4

...just the 'i' part (cam phasing), AFAIK. And base on your experience it def lags behind in the quality dept.

teg_to_bike

Mom's 325xi spent Christmas and New Years at the dealer. I think they dont like being away from their families during the holidays

The HDC switch in the center console shorted out and there was smoke and a nasty smell coming from that area.

zamo

imagine that happening WITHOUT warranty.

teg_to_bike

Yeah, we're all a little ... the warranty will be over in 2 years. Theres always small problems with the car. The center brake light stopped working, turn signal bulb, and one time the battery died and left my Mom stranded at work.

She wants to sell it and get an X3
Thats not gonna help much!

zamo

Tell her to gent a RX330 or an MDX.
Forget the X3, thats a lifted 3 series, and ugly IMO.

teg_to_bike

RDX! RDX!

ilitig8

Not quite but you have to correct me on the Honda side. VTEC uses two different cam profiles. iVTEC adds VTC to VTEC. Vanos is VTC on the intake side and Double Vanos uses it on both intake and exhaust. Valvetronic is BMW's VTEC on Meth. It provides for continuosly variable valve lift.

So Valvetronic > Vtec
Vanos = i in iVTEC

In the end the technologies are similar with neither much ahead of the other other, pretty much a draw. However is actual usage road car usage BMW has a couple of engines which out perform Honda engines using bits of these technology, the 333hp 3.2L and 500hp 5L are more tech marvels than any Honda federal engine as long as they are running...

Vandy

PS the S2000's engine is great but the specific output is not as significant since it is a 2.0/2.2L

scalbert

Interesting, this '99 E46 328i never had any real problems:

F23A4

Correct.

biker

I think on average the 3 series is one of the better BMWs to have as far as reliability.

It will be interesting to see how the new E90 3 series fares in reliability.

cloudnine

cuz they are german

sipark

If you put more stuff in it, the more it can go wrong..

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. All those new electronics that go into the cars are just causing more reliability problems.

SiGGy

common...

My acura (garage kept, used to drive to work):

4 transmissions in 3 years
A/C blower motor
ABS sensors
auto window down actuator
moon roof squeek
moon roof leaking (still not fixed)
dead homelink computer from moon roof leaking
headlight high voltage tranformers dead
exhaust heat shield rattling
intake actuator
arm rest warped
rotors warped 4 times
rear deck rattle
bad paint
(i'm leaving out a bunch of stuff)

last year of the CLS 2003:
transmission still a lemon
moon roof still rattles
rear desk rattles
rotors warp

04 TL
Acura continues to use the bad transmission on their new model


You really see acura as a reliable manufacturer? Even though they used the same flawed transmission for 3 model years, then introduced it into a new vehicle. Their actions speak loudly for what kind of a company Honda is...

I'll never buy another Acura anytime soon... I would buy a BMW. I have lots of friends with BMWs most have no problems. And any that did exist BMW took care of. None of them carry major design flaws for 3 years into the model

F23A4

most most I'm also the victim of a bad tranny in my 99 Accord @ 32k. So I was a bit surprised by that. However, converse to your experience all of the family, friends and colleagues that I know who have BMWs have traded up to other makes because to the constant shop time needed for various issues.

Just 3 examples: One of my stepfather's brothers traded his E39 530i for a Nissan Murano because the Bimmer had so many issues. --> The other brother unloaded his E65 for a Cayenne S within a year of getting the 745i. --> A colleague of mine is an avid BMW fan and is on his third. He indicated that his E46 328Ci was a chatterbox and his next car Bimmer (X5 4.4) was constantly in the shop. So far, his Z4 doesnt appear to have given him much trouble.

Despite your experience, Acura is better than most: JD Power and Consumer Reports .

But I can see where you'd have a bad taste in your mouth given your personal experience with Acura.

SiGGy

I aprreciate the response. However I don't find consumer reports to be accurate for anything. They are politically baised, and it shows in their reports. I stopped reading their news awhile back...

And in fair comparison fords problems per vehicle is in retrospect of how many vehicles they produce. Those statistics would be a lot more meaningful if they included total production numbers.

Which is better...

187 problems for 200k cars
210 problems for 1.2M cars

...

ianS

Here is a list of issues that BMW dun want to solve it for more than 6yr on E46:
Erratic idling during cold weather
Sub frame cracking
control arm bending
control arm bushing broken
Sunroof clip broken
Window regulators always broken
sticky 5th gear (manual)
Popout gear (manual)
Hard to shift to 1st gear (manual)
Car not move even on D (auto)
Cam sensor & O2 sensor always went bad
Bad Igition coil
.... and much much more! Those are all very common problem on E46 and they always just try to hide the problem by some temp fix during your warranty period such as update your DME. Just go to some bimmer forum and see how many complaints over there are with all those common problems!

bigman

My cousin had an M3 that blew 2 motors and had the frame welds come apart 3 times. When the frame welds cam apart he was on the highway and the car got real floaty. When he got home he noticed the rear fender was wrinkled. The dealer replaced the fender and "fixed" the frame.

SiGGy

I'm on LOTS of automotive forums. Don't see regular complaints on that stuff...

I follow Ford (SVT mainly), BMW, and MB

SiGGy

Scary! E46?

zamo

Just check all the TSBs / General Recalls / Emissions Recalls / Safety Recalls
between the 3 series and the CL

BMW outnumbered Acura.

With my sister's horror stories, I wont be buying a BMW anytime soon.

For me, price of a car should be proportionally inverse to its issues.

But gues what, a Honda Civic seems to be more reliable than any expensive car, and is inexpensive.

I will be really pissed if I had a $40+ grand car sitting for weeks at the dealer for engine or electrical issues (like Audi S4).

SiGGy

Ya, Acura is kinda shameful on what they actually TSB and or recall. It takes and act of god to get a recall from honda.

ya I agree 100%. I'd be looking at a used 5 series myself. Still know a good 10 people with 3 series and no problems besides normal small things.

Anyone who compares a luxury car with technology in it to a economy box is kinda off their rocker if you ask me

BMW has always put more enginering/technology into their cars than Honda has...

Crazy Bimmer

Ditto, i also have many friends with BMWs without any issues. I dont bother defending bmw anymore cuz everyone here is stubborn anyways.

ianS

Here is the latest issue that I am having and I posted on the thread and see how the reply:
sticky 5th gear
Erratic idling issue
Subframe cracking
And Control arm, window regulators and dash light up like X'mas tree are already boring and outdated known issue.
And here is a thread how BMW's owner complaint how fast their car broken down:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=128549

Other than car nuts that always complain on forums, the guy that sit beside me at work and the 2 families that live beside me are also a vitcm of bad BMW quality.

Crazy Bimmer

33 people with the subframe cracking. DO you have any idea how many 3series are there are, let alone how many e46fantic members there are? Its a small % with problems. Did you even read those threads you just posted? Most are saying they have no issues.

You seem to be trying too hard to hate on BMW. IMO

I really love everyones "i know a guy who has problems"
Yea bish i have forum friends who never have problems, WHAT now.

zamo

That is true, I just added the civic as a quick sample. If luxury brands are investing a lot into new technologies, they might be doing something wrong. How come people paying $1,000+ a month for a Mercedez have to live with their problems?

Take the civic to work when the MB is at the shop

Shawn S

Since we’re comparing quality, here’s a detailed list of all the stuff that went bad on my nearly three year old CL-S:


















The End

Python2121

so far my dads 96 bmw e36 has had fewer problems then my 3.0cl

it also drives a shitload better