Mokos23

BMW is overrated, yeah you heard me! Everyone always talks about them as a great car company and such. I like the M3, M5, and 7 series, but to me they aren't the ultimate driving machine, more like the ultimate snob machine.

I personally think a Porsche 911 Carrerra is the ultimate driving machine. I drove a 530i at the Taste of Lexus last yr and it was fast, but it wasn't as fun to drive as the Mercedes E class and the GS430 that were also there to drive. Everyone complains about the interior of Infinitis, but take a look at BMW interiors they're ugly and cheap looking too with the ugly amber orange lighting!!

Yes you get a wow factor and snob appeal ooh they have a BMW and free maintenance for 4 years, but after the warranty expires the cost to maintain a BMW goes skyhigh and the reliablity issues aren't good. You guys also know that BMW is just a common car in Europe and not considered really a luxury marque like in other parts of the world. So a big to BMW, you're overrated!!!

I bet the BMW lovers are going to say that Honda/Acura is overrated or Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infiniti are also overrated, but when your BMW is stuck in the road with reliablity problems or expensive to maintain after the warranty expires, us Japanese car owners are going to see you crying and regretting you got a BMW.

uu

Overrated? Most British cars.. Land Rover, Range Rover, Jaguar (well, Ford).

GreenMonster

They all are...

Mokos23

You mean all cars are overrated? I think all of us need to ride bikes or buy motorcyles then

Let's all buy a Vespa!

cambo

Did you know that a Chevy mini-van is being used as luxury limo's in China? fact is, any car that is made in said country will always be a common car for the masses and not really reach "luxury" status, espically if they dont have a premimum line ala lexus/infiniti/lincoln/etc.

I'd say Honda's are overrated. Reliability has gone down, cars are lack-luster in terms of power, and the lack of a v8 shows that honda has no idea what americans want and will buy.

SpeedyV6

Not really.

Crazy Bimmer

I stopped reading after this.


Are you 16? Talk about jumping on the bandwagon of BMW hating. Learn your cars before you spew such shit.

Mokos23

It's all about preference dude

Crazy Bimmer

Well for one BMWs arent as unreliable as you make it sound. Are the japanese cars better in terms of reliablity? Yes but you make it sound like the bmw will blow up after warranty which is totally untrue. They rank high always on J.D powers if you took the time to look.

I know plenty of guys who have BMWs who had no issues and their cars are running great. You also act as if they got their snob appeal by marketing alone. Many bmw owners are repeated customers and enjoy the experience of ownership. If they were that terrible to own you think many would keep buying them. Racing hertiage also plays a role on why people buy them. Go to any bmw forums and you will see MANY owners who are into track events. Cant say the same about lexus or acura forums.

Back on topic with the title thread. I think the reliablity card is overrated and that all cars have issues. Go to any car forums and you will see issues on every model made. My mom has a 98 Altima with 62k miles that has been over heating.. but wait, its japanese and suppose to last forever. Well no. Shit happens. Doesnt mean nissan as a whole is a bad company though. Hell lexus ranks high on all the charts but i swore recently we had someone complaining on here about their ES300 being a POS.

Mokos23

How about that expensive maintainence I've heard from reading on forums here like they've said oh I'm trading in my 3 series for a TL cause the BMW is so expensive for maintenance once the warranty expires. That has to be true or you think they're just typing BS?

Mokos23

Then what 5 series BMW is fast to you?

cambo

the only thing that could possibly more expensive is parts that may or may not break.

Regular maintenance shouldn't be any more expensive than you want it to be. Of course people who goto dealerships for maintenance should expect to pay more than DIYers. Someone has to pay for BMW tech's salary, and you know BMW isn't.

I should also say that paying $10 for maintenance can sound expensive after you've been getting it all for free for 4 years.

Crazy88

IMHO, Jaguar, Land Rover, low-end Mercedes, Volkswagen, Hummer.

I'm not going into detail about each one because its self explanatory.

cambo

m5

Crazy Bimmer

BMWs are the easiest cars to do an oil change on but yet people will pay $90 for one at dealerships. I wouldnt blame BMW.. i would blame the dumbass owners.

Why go to the dealer after warranty expires?

Also like i said, all forums have threads on how bad their cars are. I can find MANY threads on this forum from people saying they wont buy an Acura ever again. Doesnt mean its a bad company.

SpeedyV6

M3

CLpower

550, and even then, i wouldn't say it's "fast"

vishnus11

Well this is more targeted at a particular model than at a manufacturer, but I think that the Camry is overated. Yes, there I said it. Now, I've driven my fair share of 'em which includes various cars from the past three generations, and I can think of seldom few cars that are DEVOID of that much steering feel.

I drove an 02 just the other day, and it was quite a nerve racking experience. THe steering was numb as could be, had NO feel, and the throttle was WAY too jumpy. Couldn't even being to relax on the hwy.

A few weeks ago, when I was taking a friend's 01 for a spin, I nailed the brake pedal which seemed to travel for miles before engaging.

As far as interior quality goes - yes, it has tight panel gaps, etc. but the quality of materials isn't outstanding or anything. The one thing that the 02-06 gen of camry's have is room and lots of it.

I think I'd go as far as to say that I'd take a Pontiac G6 (yes, a pontiac) over a current gen camry. I haven't driven the very latest gen camry 07+ that supposed to be out soon, so none of the above comments refer to that.

CLpower

Not to mention BMW gives free maintnence on some of their cars. My dad doesn't pay shit for oil changes, etc, even brake jobs.

Crazy Bimmer

My dad just paid over 500 for a brake job on his Acura RL from the dealer

cob3683

Reading Comprehension 101

West6MT

Ahhhhhh, made me look out the window at my old car that is still out in the backyard. Good ole 1992 Nissan Stanza,.........313,000 kms on her. Despite being abused and driven hard at times she still runs strong last time we started her up (like half a year ago). That car has been one reliable SOB. This TSX better do the same LOL.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

All cars are overrated based on your own perceptions of them. That's why you should buy what you like, and not base it on stupid things like "how many of them you see on the road".

If you like it, you like it. Done.

bigman

M3's are way overated. The owners are dumbfounded when i kick their asses, or they get their doors blown off by an SRT-4.

iamhomin

Yes, the SRT-4 kicks a lot of ass.

chiawei

1. Lexus provided a none sport 530i for comparison and equipped with less sticky tires. In return it upgraded the tires used on its own car (Pilot sport 2).

Yes, that's right. Lexus tweak the event.

2. I think Honda/Acura is overrated.

For one thing i don't think the quality is good. I had more mechanical problems with honda/acura than i did with my BMW.

None of the honda/acura i had comes with any decent brake that is not subject to warpage. My last Acura TL was not well assembled with bad transmission. Not to mention other issued i had with my accord (92, 94, 98). None of them are trouble free.

Honda/Acura as also not considered as luxury vehicle either in rest of the world. So what is your point????

Personally i think Honda/Acura is overrated from design and quality point of view.

Toyota may be boring, but their cars are well assembled and last forever. I had many toyota/lexus cars in the past as well. Yes, they are totally boring to drive. But they never dies nor had any mechanical issues.

BMW unreliable??? I will agree BMW is not as reliable as likes of toyota/lexus. Mechanically they are way better than Honda/Acura probably not that far off from Toyota/Lexus. Electrically can be a bad spot, but they are life threatening issues like i had with acura. Warped brakes, self-destructing automatic, failed ABS, SRS not deploying.....

I have issues with my 4 BMW. But none of them was major.

01 530i
I had a blown final stage resistor on the interior fan control on the 01 530i and went through 2 recalls on the aux fan and CD-ROM based navi that would crash from time to time.

03 M3
broken sunroof panel clip
rattling pax seat

03 M5
O ring seal replaced.

06 M5.
Damaged front control arm during transit from germany.

My honda's are just bad compared to the BMW.

92 accord LX
warped/glazed brake at 9k. airbag did not deploy from frontl collision

94 accord EX
ABS failed, two burnt A/C compressor, front dash rattles, power antenna died after 1st winter, and 2 set of warped brakes.

98 accord LX V6
Warped brakes

2000 TL
3 set of brakes in less than 50k miles, transmission issues, broken center console, numerous rattle from all over the car, navi screen would freeze during hot weather.

Yes, BMW is overrated i guess. All i know is that from my own experience, Honda/Acura quality and design are simply not as good.

BTW, i always take trips out to vegas during the summer. Every time i took the TL through the same trip, i usually ended up with warped brakes as heat build up was too extreme and honda brakes simply can't tolerate heavy use in hot temperature.

After TL was totalled and we have driven 3 of the BMW plus my 04 sienna van through the same stretch during the summer. None of them had warped brakes or exhibit the brake fade i experienced on the TL. My sienna was driven in excess of 100 mph and i repeated had to slam the brake. It simply performed like it was suppose to.

teg_to_bike

BMW is overrated?!? Have you ever driven one?

TLoggins

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

SeCsTaC

C-class benz. I see them on every single street corner, 9/10 times it's a C230. 30,000 starting price, and it's equipped poorly compared to a TSX. Add a couple options, and it'll cost more than a TL!

dom

:whocares: about straight line racing.

Mokos23

Yes a previous gen 330i and that 530i at that Lexus event. To me it's not an ultimate driving machine sorry.

KCPreki11

I agree that BMW is overrated. But more in terms of what you get for your dollar. Their nice cars no doubt and drive very well. But you get to a certain price where paying anymore is just not worth it and is more for the name and that is where I feel BMW falls.

GreenMonster

I think that honda/acura reliabilty is overrated... Most of us have the perception of high quality because of the H/A products that have been made in Japan... I don't think the quality of a honda/acura built in Ohio is better then a Ford built in the US

dom

Or a TSX built in Japan.

GreenMonster

We like going fast around corners better !!

CLpower

i'm not a HUGE BMW fan, but i've driven a wide variety if cars, BMW's are some of the best cars to drive for feel next to porsches. The connection between the driver and the car is not even closely matched by most companies.

CLpower

GreenMonster

I haven't been lurking on the TSX forum much, but I didn't think you guys had many problems w/ the japanese built TSX... (other then "rail dust" from the train ride accoss the US for the east coast cars)...

dom

No major problems like engine or tranny but both my TSX's (and most others) are riddled with same small problems. Rattles, buzzes, blown bulbs, cheap paint etc.

Both my previous Honda/Acura products were completly problem free and felt alot "tighter".

My 98 GS-R is still the best car I've ever had.

haiduc

On some levels I agree with you, but for what ammounts to different, educated, reasons.
There are snobs that drive every make and model of every car. You sound like a Honda/Acura snob right now.

Some might agree with you. I would lean towards the GT3, or the GT2. Some people will say that an 88 M3 is the ultimate machine. Others will tout the Ferrari Daytona's. It's all depends on viewpoint.
If you think that a 4,000lb+ sedan with a 3.0 inline six that has less than 270hp is "fast," do I have news for you. Driving a car around at a max of 45mph on what ammounts to a 20-second "autox," is not going to get you a valid impression. Neither is the fact that the car was most likely a base-model, where the Lexus had the bigger motor, and sport package to boot. Marketing > you.
I think Audi's have awesome interiors overall. Please elaborate on "cheap." I doubt the materials were of poor quality. Maybe the design was not to your liking, but it sounds like you are grasping at straws here. I guess if you don't like it, it must automatically be crap to everyone else.

When I got my car, I didn't buy if for the wow or the snob factor. I bought it because of the handling, power delivery, silky-smoothness of the inline six, and, that was before I really knew anything about the car.
I bought my 1996 and it didn't have a warranty. I have not had any major issues with it. Nothing had caught fire, no $2000 repair bills. I have replaced certian parts, but the bill for those has been less than $1000, for the past two years.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Europe contains capitalist countries where import/export is a big business. When a country makes something of good value, and people like it, they will buy large ammounts of it. The concept of economics can't be that difficult to grasp, can it?

I wouldn't assume to say the Japanese cars are overrated. They are excelent cars. Not all of them have the elements that I looked for.
Again, my 328 has not left me on the side of the road wishing I had something else.

I think you need to put down your bong, step off your soapbox, and re-evaluate how you come to conclusions.

p.s. maybe a BMW isn't for you. Maybe the BMW community isn't for you. There is no shame in it. It's certianly not for everyone. (thank God for that)