D's Up

*CLIFFS*
- New clutch, flywheel and OEM slave cylinder
- car fights me when shifting into 1st, 2nd and reverse
- mechanic says this is clutch drag and that it's normal, will get better as the new components break-in
- Denies it being any installer error, says to contact clutch manufacturer if it doesn't get better/gets worse
- mechanic recommends stopping in neutral for a second and then shifting to first or second gear
- I don't want to buy a new clutch kit twice
- Nervous about driving my car now

Hey guys! So, long story short, my OEM clutch blew up in my 5.0. Ok, no big. I drive the car hard and I'm fairly modded so this was going to happen eventually. I ponied up some cash and purchased a McLeod RXT with a lightened steel fly-wheel as well as a new OEM slave cylinder. Awesome, right? I figure I'll get the car back, go through the break-in period and boom! Back to running her hard again.

NOPE. I picked up the car two days ago from my mechanic and noticed that it's damn near impossible to get into first and second gear. I can *force* it into gear, but that's not what I'm after. The clutch pedal itself is nice and smooth 9 times out of 10. Every so often it loses pressure and I'll have to pump it five or so times. Also, funny thing, the gear lever will move freely towards the right where 5th and 6th gear are. But, it'll fight me and barely move to the left where 1st and 2nd gear are. I took a video, I'll have to post it to this thread once I'm off work (Youtube's blocked). Finally, I got fed up after thinking about how much I paid for the parts + labor and dropped the car back off at the shop last night with less than 60 miles since the install was completed.

Well, today I called to follow up and the owner told me that this was "normal" and to be expected while the clutch is in the break-in period. He claims to have bled the system again and then stated that over time, things will start to loosen up and become smoother. I've been going to this mechanic for over 5 years, I'm somewhat inclined to believe him. But at the same time, it's a $1,300 clutch kit that I don't feel like purchasing again any time soon.

I have tools but nothing close to what I'd need to drop the transmission. Is there anyway for me to check or confirm anything myself? How fucked am I?

Lol. Thanks in advance.

D's Up

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

Maybe they bent the tab where the shift linkage connects to?

Don't know how similar it would be to a CLS6 but when I finished my clutch I couldn't get over to 1st/2nd at all. Ended up bending the tab the linkage connects to and it was hitting the transmission case. Bent it back and all was well.

Hopefully that helps..

D's Up

At this point I'm considering peeling the shifter apart myself to see if it's anything obvious. The problem is that I know jack shit about how things should look down there.

What if I take it to another shop and they diagnose/possibly repair the issue? I wonder if I could get my mechanic to front the bill and then never go back to his shop again. Clutch dragging, from what I've read, is never normal and ok.

Redsand353

The original mechanic claiming it to be typical for the break-in period is FOS. Maybe understandable if you were having that issue with all of the gears.

D's Up

My thoughts exactly. The sad part is that I trust the guy and my whole extended services their cars now since I take my "performance" cars to him.

Crashmaster

Sounds to me like the slave and or clutch master cylinder has not correctly been bleed. This things can be very difficult to bleed. Suggest you rebleed.

D's Up

He re-bled the system today and it made a noticeable difference. Shifting into first and second gear is smoother now but still not perfect. Definitely not like it was prior to all of this.

Crashmaster

You are on the right track. Too often mechanics will bleed this system like a brake system, pump the clutch pedal and open the bleeder procedure. I assume that this is what he is doing. Much better and more effective to use a pressure bleeder. You are on the right track, just keep going.

black label

If it's a bleeding issue, typically the clutch will grab very low. With a new clutch assembly, you should notice it grabbing much higher than before, if it's not, it could be air in the line.

TacoBello

Ask the mechanic if he's willing to pay for everything that gets fucked up, once the break in period is over, and you still keep having these issues.

RDX10

If he continues to be a piece of shit, check and see if he is certified by and board or group, call them and make a formal complaint, also feel free to shit all over his yelp and ither review platforms.

D's Up

I have noticed that it grabs substantially higher than before. It actually caught me off guard a couple times.

I did. I told him that if this isn't sorted by the end of the 500-mile break-in period that I would be brining the vehicle back. It was at this point that he told me that any issue I may be having is in no way related to an installation error and to contact he manufacturer of the product if the issues persist.

I'm hoping it doesn't get to that. Especially considering the fact that most of my family goes to him. But if need be, I'll bury him. I'd rather just get the issue fixed instead of having to badmouth his business. I hope he sees the big picture sooner rather than later. I had an MB dealership treat me like shit when I went to buy a used, early model C63 before the 5.0. In the end, it cost them my money + 3 more sales since I had some family in the market. They took their business to another dealer instead.

D's Up

At the ~3:35 mark, you can see how difficult it is to actually put it in first gear. It goes in, but only with an excessive amount of force.

RDX10

Today I went to a local food joint and had some seriously shitty customer service for the second time in a row. I am not a picky difficult to please person. But when you want to act like I am. I will be. I went home and wrote them a scalding google review. If someone has a good experience, they rarely tell one or two people. But bad experience? They tell everyone they know. I already told a few family members and friends. I will also continue to tell family and friends.

Don't be afraid to do the same.

D's Up

True. It's gotten better but still nerve-racking to drive wondering if everything is installed correctly. I'm going to speak to him about opening it up again. I was thinking about stopping by a dealer on the way home and running through the gears on one of the lot cars to see if the whole issue's just in my head.

RDX10

If it was not there before, what makes you think it is normal now? The fact your mechanic won't open it up just to double check his work is proof of what kind of shit he is. Later on down the road having a stubborn mechanic can only lead to more issues.

D's Up

Again, you're right. I'll be stopping by the shop again tomorrow. Hopefully something good comes of it. I'll also have a local speedshop check it out and see if they have any ammo they can give me in case I have to really argue my case against this guy. Lesson learned - pay the extra $300 and get performance parts installed at a performance-oriented shop. Not your run of the mill mechanic shop. I knew a clutch install for $350 was too good to be true.

black label

Do you have a short shift kit installed?

D's Up

Negative. That'd be nice though. I went on McLeod's website and noticed they had a section titled - "What can cause poor shifting?" and apparently these are the common issues.

1.Shifter installed improperly or shifter linkage improper adjusted or damaged.

2.Misaligned bellhousing.

3.Wrong fluid type used in transmission.

4.Worn transmission parts i.e. synchro gears and/or bent shift fork.

5.Pilot bushing worn or binding on input shaft.

I also got in a touch with another mechanic (recommended via local GT owner) who told me to bring it over tomorrow and he'll take it for a drive and see if he notices anything funny.

Crashmaster

I would suggest that you inform the mechanic that you will be taking it to the OEM dealership to fix the problem. If it is not his fault, then no worry. On the other hand, if the OEM dealership finds that it is a labor problem, then the bill will go to the mechanic. Whether or not the mechanic agrees to this or not, you still need to do this. Just always better to give him a chance to correct the problem first. Once the OEM dealership fixes the problem, it would be your option whether to take him to court or not. I doubt the mechanic has the credentials of an OEM dealership.

black label

It looks pretty short, I thought maybe aftermarket. Typically a short shift kit (even factory issued) will cause more resistance when shifting. My only experience with a mustang manual was a Roush charged mustang and everything required extra effort. The clutch pedal was like going to the gym on leg day and the shifter was super stiff in all gears but those are like a street legal nascar ride.

Aman

D, I think you should first bleed the clutch yourself. It's really not a difficult or complicated procedure at all. The hardest part may simply be getting to the slave cylinder.

You can do it with a vacuum bleeder, or with a buddy to operate the clutch pedal for you. In my experience, the latter is usually easier and quicker. Vacuum bleeding can sometimes show misleading air in the clear line you're pumping fluid through. Plus, they cost money.

If that doesn't work, I'd do or get done a transmission fluid drain and refill. Maybe those transmissions are picky and the wrong fluid was used, or maybe an insufficient amount was used.

Wouldn't a short shift kit make shifting stiffer all the time?

RDX10

Here is hoping that it will all be worked out. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself because I know these situations can be really intimidating. At the end of the day, remember you get what you pay for...clearly we both know that now!

D's Up

Well, I took it to another shop and he said that while he noticed the issue, it could be something as simple as the first shop using the incorrect transmission fluid. He noted that the clutch pedal feel and everything else felt great. He said to just rip it and that 250 miles was enough to break her in. His logic seems to be that some abuse will set everything straight. I'm not sure I agree.. Nor do I want to shell out another $1,300 for a replacement clutch kit.

So, I drove the car back to my mechanic and after discussing things. He agreed to open it back up and take a look but insisted that it's a clutch issue and not an install issue. According to him, they didn't drain any of the transmission fluid during the clutch job. I'm not sure how that works, once it's opened up won't fluid drip out on its own? He also said that the pressure plates are too tight on the clutch discs (unable to fully retract) because the clutch discs are too thick and that this would cure itself over time as it breaks in. That doesn't sound right either. When I asked him to just loosen the pressure plate a tad he insisted that the clutch wouldn't work at all. He flat out told me again that the clutch is dragging, that it's normal, and that it will get better over time. Doesn't seem that way.

I'm at just over 250 miles on the break-in and all the gears are harder to shift smoothly now. I don't want the car back till it's fixed. If it's a clutch issue then I'll take photos and have it warrantied through McLeod. If it's an install issue, then I'm expecting my mechanic to do right by me and either fix it or give me some type of refund. Full, partial, whatever. I'm not sure how much I could get back at this point.

SamDoe1

They wouldn't have to drain any trans fluid while they were doing a clutch job. The fluid is held in the gear case with a seal for the input shaft, none of it would come in contact with the clutch area. That much at least is true. Now whether they bled the slave cylinder properly or not is a different story.

D's Up

Thanks Sam, I'm not too familiar with the internal workings and such. What about his explanation of the clutch drag being caused by the discs being too thick? Does that sound right to you?

D's Up

I just spoke to Billy at McLeod and he said it is indeed possible that the discs are too thick, but it's a very rare case. He said that if we continue to have issues to just send the unit in for inspection where they will determine if the clutch is indeed faulty. He also brought up the possibility of my hydraulics system going bad. I replaced the slave cylinder and my mechanic did say that my master cylinder is fine so it's down to either an improper install or a defective clutch unit from McLeod. I'm just happy to be narrowing the possibilities down at this point.

SamDoe1

Yes, it could be. The clutch is pretty much like a big brake rotor if you will. The slave cylinder moves the friction disc into contact with the flywheel which is what transfers power from the engine to the transmission. If the thickness of the friction disc is too much, it could constantly be in contact with the flywheel and cause drag on the system. One method of seeing if that is the case is to find a flat surface, come to a complete stop, put it in first, push clutch pedal all the way in, give it a bit of gas. If the car moves, the friction disc is dragging, if not there's probably something else going on. If the system is truly not disengaging as would be the case with a dragging clutch, there might be some safety mechanism built into the Mustang trans to prevent (or make difficult) gear changes without the clutch disengaged which could explain your issues as well.

If its dragging, the issue is either in the install or the thickness of the disc is too much (manufacturing error).

D's Up

The first mechanic attempted a similar test to see if the clutch was dragging and he said it wasn't. We were in the car on a flat surface and he put it in first, clutch in and the vehicle went nowhere.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Stupid question David, but is this a self adjusting clutch?
I have an aftermarket one in the TLS and when I first bought the car I could barely squeeze/grind it into 1st, 2nd and reverse...some pedal throw adjustment and I was in business.

Probably something that simple would have already been looked at...

Good luck!

D's Up

Not a stupid question at all! Especially since I don't know the answer to it. Haha. All I've gathered thus far is that my car has a hydraulic system. I would assume it to be self-adjusting? I'm googling it right now.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

No sir...like the TL-S...the clutch system is hydraulic...but the OEM pressure plate is self adjusting in that the pedal will kinda find it's correct spot. The Spec stage 3 was not like that and was directly related to where the pedal throw was set...literally got under the steering wheel with a box wrench, disconnected linkage and spun the rod to shorten/lengthen it to get it to press in correctly.

Basically...since 1st/2nd and reverse are so tall, they were MOST affected by the lack of throw...imagine pedal being pressed and the rod isn't pushing the slave enough on the other end to engage smoothly.

SamDoe1

J might be on to something. I'd bring that up to your mechanic and see what he says.

This is why I'm not a huge fan of not using an OEM clutch (not even because I really like OEM parts but just in general) unless you're putting down quite a lot more power than the clutch can handle. There's honestly no reason to do so other than bragging rights.

D's Up

After reading some McLeod horror stories online, I'm starting to think my clutch actually is faulty. Apparently QC at McLeod is not as top notch as I thought it was. I'll run that idea by my mechanic J! Thanks as always! Sam, I wanted to run a clutch with a higher power capacity so that I wouldn't have to upgrade down the road when the blower gets strapped on.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

you're welcome, man...

and all I gathered from that post was "strap on".

SamDoe1

I'd be surprised if the OEM clutch couldn't handle the blower already provided you aren't pushing +300hp or something nuts like that. But glad things are moving along, good luck!

TacoBello

Man... the blower kits for the new mustang are insane. "Stage 1" takes you to like 640hp...

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

+1 for getting blown

Aman

I think you're doing the blowing