Yumcha

Ah, the irony.

[/quote]
An Eastern Shore man who was the state director of an organization that lobbies for the rights of motorcycle owners — such as the right not to wear a helmet — was killed Wednesday when an SUV collided with his motorcycle. Martin L. Schultz died at the scene, while the SUV driver had only minor injuries after she struck a telephone pole. Police said a helmet was recovered from the scene of Schultz's crash, but it was not immediately known if he was wearing it at the time of the accident. Often, anti-helmet activists carry helmets on their bikes in the event they are pulled over by police, but do not ride with them normally. The group Schultz led — "A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments" — had a "Helmet Law Protest Ride" scheduled for October.[quote]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/09/...on-bike-crash/

jz-97-c7

damn....killed by irony

SeCsTaC

An Eastern Shore man who was the state director of an organization that lobbies for the rights of motorcycle owners — such as the right not to wear a helmet — was killed Wednesday when an SUV collided with his motorcycle. Martin L. Schultz died at the scene, while the SUV driver had only minor injuries after she struck a telephone pole. Police said a helmet was recovered from the scene of Schultz's crash, but it was not immediately known if he was wearing it at the time of the accident. Often, anti-helmet activists carry helmets on their bikes in the event they are pulled over by police, but do not ride with them normally. The group Schultz led — "A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments" — had a "Helmet Law Protest Ride" scheduled for October.
fucking women suv drivers!

Whiskers

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/anti-seatbelt-guy-dies-not-wearing-seatbelt-293106/

teranfon

It's unfortunate that he was killed, but even more unfortunate his death won't encourage helmet use for some motorcyclists. I can see a number of riders claiming that he died doing what he enjoyed with the wind running through his hair and the rest of that bullshit. I've been riding one form or another of motorcycle for most of my life and have never considered helmet laws "Totalitarian Enactments". I'm sure that riding helmet-less appeals to some people, but not the EMT's that have to hose your brains off the asphalt. Or the police officers who have to inform your family of your death and why your body can't be viewed. Or the doctors, assuming you've survived, try to make you somewhat more of the drooling individual with the mentality of a cabbage you've become.

Terry

Costco

Ben Roethlisberger died?

j/k

sxlova07

never got the riding w/o a helmet thing......as it is I am not 100% comfortable riding without full leathers

stangg172004

am i evil for chuckling?

jerzpwr

wow.. hjahahaha

Trojanman750

after seeing pictures of motorcycle accidents, i would NEVER ride without a helmet. just the thought of having half your face grinded away like shaving a block of chedder cheese, with gravel in your eyeballs and your cheek bone sanded smooth


WEAR A FUCKING HELMET



on a sidenote...woman SUV drivers are pitiful. i see them everywhere out here.....get a damn prius or even a highlander hybrid you stupid bitches...you have no need for a 20,000 pound 350hp v8 chevy tahoe

fla-tls

I see a trend here. First there was Billy Lane - and now this...

truck -> motorcycle -> telephone pole

It's happened twice now. Things are getting creepy!!!

parshooter

That would make a great bumper sticker

Bdog

Maryland and Virginia have helmet laws and there are a lot of people lobbying to get that changed, but I've never seen someone not wearing a helmet... hard-core biker or not. Now most of the Harley riders I do see wearing helmets, wear the fake helmet that fits really snug on your head and has no padding inside. It works to not get stopped by the police, but is basically worthless. It's not a safety issue to these guys it's a freedom issue... same as seatbelts.

Maximized

Let me fix that.

teranfon

I wonder how much it REALLY is a freedom issue. Or is it merely the attempt to portray an image of rebellion and "biker" attitude. I've been riding for most of my life and I find it somewhat hypocritical to overhear someone bitch and moan at helmet laws, proudly displaying the decals on their helmet reinforcing their beliefs, and look over and see a five year old cruiser with less than 4000 km. on the clock. It's especially amusing to see them wobbling out of the parking lot. I wonder if the majority wear their seatbelts? Somehow I bet they do. And I wouldn't think they continually complain about it either.

A few long term riders I have known have ridden without a helmet to see what its like, and most actually prefer a helmet of some sort. If you want to ride without a helmet thats fine. But don't expect the healthcare I have to pay for to cover your stupidity, or more precisely, your attempt to portray a particular image. Same as insurance rates. It someone rides without a helmet and turns himself into a vegetable, I'm sure my rates increase to cover the costs of a family suing an insurance company to care for said vegetable.

Terry

Tigerriot

I think people that ride motorcycles are dumb. Harsh, but it's the truth.


A minor car accident becomes a fatal motorcycle accident.


"But I enjoy the open road feeling with the wind in my hair".

Well, it's a shame but sometimes the most "fun" thing isn't alway the best thing to do in life.

SouthernBoy

Two of our people at work (on our project) have had motorcyle accidents this year. One, a systems admin manager, had his accident last weekend. Personally, I do not like helmet laws for the same reason I don't like seat belt laws. However, I wouldn't think of moving my car or truck onto the street without first buckling up. And if I was a motocyclist, I for certain would not ride without a helmet. I just don't like the government mandating this.

teranfon

Hi Southernboy

I hope your two associates are doing well.

Not to be off-topic, but last weekend I saw a beautiful 1966 Chevelle 396SS. Beautiful car. Black vinyl and dark red. Restored quite well. Had redline tires on it as well. Was this an option? Anyway, knew it was close to yours so thought I'd let you know.

Terry

SouthernBoy

The first one was a lady across the hall from me. I just can't seem to put a face with her name, but she had just started back into riding. She hit a guard rail.. her husband was behind her on his bike. She is still out with her injuries.

The sys-admin manager is a funny good-ole-boy fella. He has several broken ribs and a separated sceptula (??spelling??).

My '66 396 was maroon with a black vinyl top. The redline tires you speak of were standard on all four GM supercars at the time. Your posting takes me back to that car.

I know it sounds strange, but there are times when I can still smell that car when it was new. Not the kind of smells you might normally associate with a new car, but a little different. And the sound of the stock exhaust at idle.. I still remember that as well.

teranfon

Again, some valid points. And yes, some motorcyclists do take unnecessary risks, whether it be to speeding and/or recklessness. But are you saying that an individual, by choice of his or her type of transportation, should negate you of any responsibility on the roadways? That an individual, riding any sort of motorcycle, allows you to place the onus or responsibility of how YOU operate your motor vehicle on the motorcyclist? That if you make a mistake while operating a motor vehicle you have absolutely no responsibility because the person you killed or maimed due to your wrongful actions is at fault because you determine his or her vehicle not appropriate? I find your reasoning somewhat frightening. Perhaps bicyclists, convertibles, commuter cars, and any other vehicle smaller of less visible than the one you are driving should be responsible for YOUR actions as well. Perhaps bus drivers, truckers, and other drivers of large vehicles should be absolved of their actions as well if they kill or maim drivers operating smaller vehicles such as yourself. Perhaps infants, the elderly, and those with limited mobility should not be in an automobile since they are most likely to be injured as well.

You mention that motorcyclists are everyone's problem. Respectfully, I instead see drivers such as yourself to be more of everyone's problem. Instead of worrying how your admittedly wrongful actions would be of detriment to you, perhaps you should be more concerned with sharing the roadways with other's and being more attentive to you own actions.

Terry

Python2121

So motorcycles are bad because you are too irresponsible to check your blind spot? I think you made a better argument for why all drivers should have a drivers ed refresh every 5 years.

Ironic that this guy died, but if you play with fire you are going to get burned.

Tigerriot

I'm not living in that motorcycle riding fantasy land where every driver on the road drives exactly as they should. Thats just not reality. So, for the purpose of my argument I made the driver in the wrong. That doesn't even account for the many situations where the motorcyclist is the one in the wrong. I wasn't trying to blame the "blind spot" on either party, but I was simply mentioning it as it is a reality of motorcycles on the road way. They're simply harder to spot than a car.


So, on the topic of bad drivers. Yes, they exist. Yes, they will always exist. Unfortunately a lot of motorcycle riders like to act like they drive in a land where no one makes mistakes, accept for the driver that they got in an accident with. As part of being a motorcycle driver you have to accept the fact that there are some really bad drivers out there. Just as i'm sure there are some really stupid motorcycle riders out there as well.


No matter how you slice and dice it though, the fact remains that motorcyclists by choice, are putting themselves in a much less protective vehicle, and thus they are putting all of the drivers on the road at a higher risk of being involed in an accident with results in fatalities. Thats my beef with it.

Of course we can't account for those that drive with children, or elderly. But the fact is that motorcycles are clearly the least safe among the many transportation options we have available to us on public roadways.


Also, on my point about all drivers being at risk because of a potential lawsuit if they hit a motorcycle rider. Regardless of the true fault in the case of each accident, the fact remains that the family of a motorcycle rider may still try and make the case that they lost a loved one, and it was that big bad person in the car that is the reason. I just find that to be an absurd argument for anyone to try and make. Because once again, we all know who choose that dangerous mode of transportation. The same accident with another car would result in very minor injuries in most cases.

teranfon

So once again, in essence, the driver of an automobile has no liability when a collision occurs with a motorcycle. And it makes absolutely no difference if the automobile driver is at fault as it was the motorcyclist's choice to use such a "dangerous" mode of transportation. It doesn't matter if the motorcyclist was operating his bike in a proper, safe, respectful, and legal manner. I still find your views to be absurd. I also find your comment that all motorcyclists on the road are putting non motorcycle drivers at risk. It seems to me it is often the other way around. I'm certainly not condoning the actions of all motorcyclists, but there are just as many poor drivers in automobiles as well.

As well, please cite examples where the driver is at liability where the motorcyclist is at fault, as you repeatedly make reference to this. You also make the claim where motorcyclists ride around in a state of ignorant bliss, totally unaware of the dangers and hazards around them. As someone who has ridden for thirty years, and of those thirty street ridden for over twenty, I can tell you this just isn't true. And I can assure you that I don't drive my autos in a state of ignorant bliss as well, especially knowing there are individuals out there who feel they have no responsibility, or more importantly, the desire to share the road with others.

In all modes of transportation there are good and bad drivers. And in the end its up to everyone to share the road accordingly. As a motorcyclist I'll continue to always wear my gear and helmet. No exceptions. And unlike yourself, continue to respect all forms of transportation around me.

Terry

Tigerriot

I fully accept your right to ride a motorcycle Terry. I simply disagree with the laws that make it legal to do so.

I am in no way interested in debating who is the more careless driver between cars and bikes. I'm simply saying that we ought to all realize that the cycle riders are clearly choosing the least protected way in which to drive around. 2 wheels is simply less stable then 4.

So, with that fact established, I believe it should be a law that if a motorcycle rider chooses a cycle as their form of transportation, than it should be noted in the event that an accident does occur, that the driver of the car is simply not responsible for the injuries sustained by the cycle rider, as that rider chose an inherantly less stable form of transportation.

Thats not to say that I excuse a dumb mistake by a car driver, who hits a motorcycle rider. It's simply that I think it's unfair to blame a driver for the death of a rider when we'll never know exactly how injured the rider may have been had they been in an actual automobile.

I simply don't like the uneasy feeling of driving behind a motocycle rider on the highway, when I know darn well that if this dude falls off his bike, and I run him over, there is a chance that I could be blamed for his death. I don't think thats fair to burden others with that kind of thought.

teranfon

If that's your belief, then so be it. If you are that insecure to be around other forms of transportation and not prepared to accept any consequences of your actions behind the wheel of an automobile then I suppose we won't agree on this matter. Perhaps I will take your logic to heart if, through no fault of my own, involved in a collision in my accord with a driver without ABS, side air bags, and crumple zones I feel to be inadequate.

Terry

YeuEmMaiMai

humm killed by his own ideaology.......

Forrest Gump

"my Momma always said "Stupid is, stupid does.""

Tigerriot

I knew that was coming.

Yes, we all know there are cars out there with far less safety features than others. But it seems just a bit ridiculous to ever try and compare a 4 wheeled vehicle as somehow being equal to a 2 wheeled vehicle when it comes to safety.

We all know that the 2 wheeled vehicle is far less stable on the road than a 4 wheeled vehicle. It's kinda silly that I even have to explain such things.

We both know that a minor bump from a car hitting a motorcycle is gonna cause the motorcycle to go down almost every time. However, that same car bumping a car would likely cause a minor scratch/dent. There is simply no comparison.

If I knew I was gonna be in an accident today, i'd gladly choose to be in the 85' Ford Escort rather than any modern day motorcycle.

teranfon

Perhaps you SHOULD explain it to me. You continually claim the driver of an automobile should never be at fault when striking a motorcyclist. Whether the rider is at fault or not. As another poster has mentioned, perhaps you should check your blind spot when merging. And instead of worrying about a motorcyclist falling off his or her motorcycle while riding on the highway and you subsequently running over him, try spending a little more time and attention following at a safe distance. This applies to ANY sort of vehicle in front of you. I still find it totally absurd that you feel that even if the automobile driver is at fault, the motorcyclists still bears the responsibility. I believe there is another posting on this site where a well known motorcycle builder passed on a solid yellow line and into the path of a motorcyclist, killing him instantly. By your logic the motorcyclist is the one at fault.

It seems to me that you spend an exorbitant amount of time worrying about the liability issues if you strike a motorcycle. Have you ever? You certainly seem concerned about this, and seem to think you have don't have the responsibility to share the road with motorcyclists. You also make repeated claims that a motorcyclist, while entirely at fault, can sue, in your words, "the big bad car". I'm still waiting for the examples and referrals I asked you for.

You claim to prefer to be in a collision with an 85' escort that a motorcyclist. I, however, would prefer NOT to be in a collision with either. Or ANY vehicle in fact. And if I am, would certainly own up to any responsibility rather than condemning the other party by their choice of vehicle. You can spend all the time and effort you want complaining about legislation enforcing equality on the roadways, and driving in constant fear of motorcyclists around you, but perhaps instead should should try to respect and realize that ALL parties have a responsibility to each other.

Terry

Python2121

If you get on a motorcycle you are accepting a higher level of danger. If you get into an accident with a car everyone basically goes "oh well, motorcycles are unsafe," no one screams "THE DRIVER OF THE AUTOMOBILE KILLED HIM." Just because you have unrealistic expectations of who is at fault doesn't mean that everyone else does. Frankly I can't believe an auto enthusiast would be so against motorcycles for such a backwards reason. Now, wearing helmets is more of a good driving habbit law than anything else.

Land of the free? I'm glad you aren't making the laws...

teranfon

Well said.

Terry

Tigerriot

Terry,

You continue to to focus on my comments about liability, but yet you seem to ignore my reasoning behind my opinions.

I am totally with you on your feeling about how we should all be careful drivers. Thats the fantasy land I talked about in an earlier post. We all know we would like to be perfect drivers, but REALITY says that won't EVER happen. Just like we'll never cure every disease in this world. What we hope for in this world, isn't usually what we get.

So, once we establish the concept that there are always gonna be bad driver, careless drivers, drunk drivers, and all around bad vehicle operators, we can begin to have a realistic discussion about why motorcycles are such a bad idea for both riders, as well as fellow motorists who choose to drive automobiles.


No, I have never struck a motorcycle rider. I've actually never caused an accident in my 14 years of driving. I am simply someone who does a lot of thinking sometimes, and it's occured to me over the years that motorcycles are something I simply do not like in this world. I don't deny their fun, I don't deny the entertainment they provide people. I simply believe they are too dangerous, and too risky for them to be legal on our public roads.

We all know of vehicles such as funny cars, and racing cars that are capable of extraordinary things. Have you ever asked yourself why they're not street legal? Hey, what if I told you that I know I can drive my professional funny car on public roads. It's outrageous that in the "land of the free" i'm not allowed to do so!

What would you say to me? Why were they made illegal to drive on public roads? Why are certain foreign sports cars deemed "not street legal" sometimes? They don't even have to be considered "funny cars" to be considered illegal, and yet they are. Why?

It's because someone (usually some politicians somewhere) have deemed those automobiles too dangerous to drive on public roadways. They're either too fast, or too poweful, or they simply aren't safe for the driver to operate around other drivers for whatever reasons they've found. But guess what? I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who could handle driving these cars on public roadways perfectly fine.

Unfortunately motorcycles are sort of one of those things that have been "grandfathered" into daily life. They're one of those things that NO politician would have the balls to ban no matter how much evidence was shown to them to prove their danger to the roadways of the world. It's just too late for such things to happen. Politicians don't always make laws based on what's right, but rather what they think will help them get re-elected.


So, when it comes right down to it, i'm well aware that my desire to ban motorcycles on public roads is not an opinion held by the majority of Americans. However, I also know that the majority of Americans don't sit around and consider all the possibilities every day if they were involved in an accident with a motorcycle.


Lastly, i'll leave you with this. Do a quick google search for "motorcycle accidents". Notice how many lawyer ads pop up? Interesting isn't it? It's all the proof I need that if I hit a motorcycle rider it's very possible my life could be forever altered because of my momentary mistake which every single human being is capable of making. Only difference is that those who are most unfortunate to be involved in a small accident with a motorcycle rider could have that tiny mistake turned into a life altering event that will haunt them til the day they die.

Here is just one article I noticed when I did that google search.

http://injury.freeadvice.com/injury_...15_136_628.htm

Some kid on a motorcycle was hit and killed by a drunk driver. Obviously we all know that drunk drivers are idiots, and deserve a serious punishment for doing it. I had a friend who got a DUI years ago. But consider for a moment how fair it is that the one drunk driver who happens to hit a motorcycle rider is now responsible for that kids death. Of course we know that if that same kid had just been in a car that night he would likely still be alive, but because he was on a motorcycle he lost his life. So the kid dying is a tragedy by itself, but now the stupid drunk driver is responsible for someone's death because THEY CHOSE TO RIDE ON THAT MOTORCYCLE.

You guys can talk all you want about "we motorcycle riders know that we are taking a risk when we get on our bike", but you seem oblivious to the fact that you are also putting the rest of us at risk as well. If we happen to make that instanteous mistake that all of us are capable of in life, we might just end up being responsible for your death, and your family may just happen to find out of those "helpful" lawyers from a google search and ruin our lives forever as well. Sad but true.

teranfon

Tigerriot:

I must admit that I find you ignorance amusing. But your compassion and paranoia sickening. You mention the reasoning behind your beliefs. What reasoning? The belief that one form of transportation has more rights than another? Regardless of fault? It seems to me that your "reasoning" is simply your admitted hatred of motorcycles. Comments such as,".........motorcycles are simply things I do not like in this world..........................they are dangerous, and too risky for them too be legal on our public roads", demonstrate this quite well. Once again, please provide details. And NOT simply because you do not like them.

Motorcycles are "grandfathered"? A political issue?

And please, don't insult me by asking me do go a google search for "motorcycle accidents". I suggest you do the same in regards to "auto accidents" and YOU see how many results come up. Interesting, isn't it? What do you have to say about that?

And the best you can do is find a link to a motorcycle death is one where a passenger died because of being struck by a DRUNK DRIVER! And the death of that passenger is HIS fault because he was on a MOTORCYCLE! In essence, the drunk who hit the rider is less responsible than the motorcycle rider! That the motorcyclist could have prevented the death by simply not being there?! You sir, are pathetic. You claim that motorcyclists put YOU in jeopardy because of the "instantaneous mistake" that you could make resulting in death or injury to a motorcyclists.

Again, I for one will defend the rights of EVERYONE on the road. Except perhaps for the ignorant, selfish, insecure, and paranoid individuals such as yourself. Defending the actions of an impaired driver........................thought I had read it all.

Terry

YeuEmMaiMai

from my experience I have noticed that Idiots can drive just about anything from a motorcycle to an 18 wheeler.....

Would I ride a motorcycle? Not a chance becuase I have witnessed far too many accidents where the rider was killed or mamed by a collision with a car.

Drunks just don't kill people on motorcycles, they can kill people who are doing just about anything from walking on the sidewalk to driving a car as well........