Tajam

read somewhere that american cars are more reliable than european cars now... I think consumer reports.

brahtw8

Finally, somebody had the creativity to BMW bash on an Acura site.

Who knows, there might even be thread someday where BMW owners bash Hondas?

acuraddict

I like what this guy says. Other than digital's comment, this thread is ridiculous. You guys need to log off and go get some fresh air. This argument is pointless. I'd put it up there with religion and politics - there's just no point in discussing it with people who are on the other side of the argument.

jdriver

If you want to test drive a BMW or 10, check out "The Ultimate Drive" promotion BMW is doing (http://www.bmwusa.com/Joy/EventsandPrograms/UDSK/). I did it last year, and it's coming to my town next Saturday. They let you drive all the BMWs you want, one after the other, no questions, no salesman (but unfortunately a pre-determined route). And they give you lunch while there, and every mile driven equals a dollar BMW gives to cure breast cancer.

Last year I drove a 325i sedan, 325i convertible, 330i sedan and coupe, and 540i before I had to get back to work. This year I hope to drive at least an X5, X3 and Z4. The web site lets you reserve only a couple cars, but if it's like it was last year, you just hop out of one and ask for another. They were more than happy to let me drive anything that was available.

Great fun and a good cause.

TLud

I don't need the gadgets and toys. I just want a car that I can DRIVE. Is the TL's interior nicer? Does it have better reliability? Is it a better value? Yes, but don't even try to tell me that it's more fun to drive than a BMW, regardless of how aggressively you drive. You don't need to get on a track or drive like a moron to feel the difference.

It's all about what you want/need. German and Japanese cars are about two different goals (although the line is starting to blur with cars like the TL and G35). Pick which side of the fence you fall on and enjoy what you have. No need to justify your choice and start up senseless debates with complete strangers.

SmokeTL

I guess this is like bubba and earl arguing over ford and chevy pick-ups.

brahtw8

Say what you want about the BMW drivers, but they are having more sex than those who drive Japanese cars.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4891758/

Funny that Porsche scored the lowest (obviously for demographic reasons, in that its owners are older, but still amusing nonetheless).

Since I have two Japenese cars, does that mean I get to multiply the number by two?

geminis2

I have friends withe BMWs and they seem to be in the shop alot. Id rather drive the car.

Fauman

:argue: 04' TL is on the way should get it next week, but if I could afford it an M3 would be in there. Over 5 BMW's have been owed by my family and all I can say is that these cars as far as I can remember have never given us any trouble what so ever, just sure driving pleasure. Sure it doesnt have bluetooth or or touch screen gps, but what everone is forgeting is that BMW doesn't drastically change anything in their cars until the new body styles come out. So far the 5 and the 7 have had changes with the 3 coming out next year. BMW however has gone more with the iDrive rather than touch screen and after getting the hang of it its not hard at all. It would be overkill to have a touch screen system and iDrive as well. Acura is a great car and so is BMW. But I would take a 333hp M3 anyday, or better yet a fire breathing 500hp V10 M5!!!!But unfortunately I don't crap out benjamins and don't wipe my ass with golden TP!!!

ndabunka

My Lotus elise will SMOKE you guys with your lowly M5's and porcshe's

BarryH

I had a MDX and TL-S and now have a 325cic. My convertible is more solid and rattle free than either Acura and it's had its roof cut off. I’ve had a V70R for a year now and it too is rattle free and solid. DVD-A, Bluetooth, and a talking Navi have nothing to do with the inherent design of a car. Headliners stuck on with two-sided tape, gaps in interior panels, no under hood light, repeaters that don’t flash, and irresolvable rattles do. BMW's are better engineered than Acura's, which as someone said above, probably doesn't matter to most people. For those that it doesn't matter to, Acura's are a great value. To those that it does matter to, myself included, I see and feel the difference and am willing to pay for it. Overall, I'd say Acura's are more reliable than BMW's but not to the point that it would make BMW ownership unattractive. I've had my Acura's serviced at multiple dealers in NJ, IL, and WA and have to say they're a mixed bag at best. My M-B, BMW, and Volvo experiences have been better. The fact that the E46 is still selling 40K+ units after being out for four years says something in itself. Acura's can still be good cars without every other make having to be made bad in the process. And it doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't buy one and chooses something else is stupid, blind, and ignorant. While I probably wouldn’t buy another Acura (never say never), I’d recommend one to a friend in a heartbeat depending on what they were looking for. My 325 has been a great car so far but I could care less if anyone else buys one and haven’t made it a personal mission to educate the world on the virtues of BMW ownership. Just be happy with your choice and stop trying to convince the rest of the world that you made the right decision.

Xpditor

Yeah, but my Honda CBR954RR will smoke your Elise any which way you want to go (except on the scales).

Did you get your Elise yet?

XP

Scott P.

You don't have one. In fact I don't either. I am #6 On the list at my dealership waiting for it... but until then it won't smoke anything. Now.. when they arrive... THAT'S a different story!!!!!!

Xpditor

Ask the man who owns one.

I have a 2004 TL and a 1995 BMW318i that I bought new. The TL has 500 miles and the BMW, 115,000.

I just spent a week detailing/restoring the BMW to like new condition. Here are my observations (as opposed to speculation):

1) The Beemer is built like a brick shit house. It is over-engineered and has system reduncancy like a Space Shuttle. The door openings are triple sealed AND has moleskin in addition. The interior pieces cleaned up like new with no deterioration of the material. The pleather seats cleaned up like new (parchment). No tears, rips, sags, or wrinkles. The black and gray trim dressed up (Back to Black) like new.

2) The Beemer has 3 drivers including a teenager. It is NOT babied. It has received routine maintenance from BMW while under warranty and from Helmit, the German shade-tree mechanic afer that. It has had to be repainted twice (red).

3) The Beemer, even with a 4 cyl 1.8 and auto, is a blast to drive. It's a dog off the line but soon gets on the cams and screams. Even sounds good. It's hard to drive it slow.

4) Problems with the Beemer have been: drooping headliner under the moon roof, a leak in the moon roof, radio system ate a cassette tape and now the radio won't work (even after the tape was removed).

5) The shocker for me was the blatant copying that Acura has done off BMW. Everyplace I looked on the BMW, I saw similarities to the Acura. Whether is was door handles, the trunk pull down, the pedals/dead pedal, the engine bay, the mechanical bits, the styling, etc., etc.

These cars are so similar, it's scary. It seems Acura reverse engineered the BMW 5 series when they designed the new TL.

I love both cars. They both have their shortcomings. They are both world's better than most cars on the road today.

When I made the choice between a BMW 530 and TL, I gave great weight to value, styling, and ammenities. Although it was close (except for styling since I hate the new 5), I chose TL.

It doesn't mean I still don't love BMW. I just think the cars are so close today that I can't justify spending $15,000 more for the marque.

XP

Xpditor

Unless you're getting an Elise S or R, you can't count on beating a TL, let alone the others.

With 120HP standard, it does 0-60 in about the same time as a TL 6MT.

Now, the S- or better yet- the R is a different story. With about 189HP, the R should kick some ass.

Bring it around for my CBR954 (Mwa-ha-ha!) 140 HP and 362 lbs.

XP

brahtw8

The only engine in the US elise is the Toyota VVTi 1.8 making 190 hp. It will do sixty in under 5 seconds.

savageTL

Correct. The Federal Elise is essentially the new Lotus 111R. Tests have it at 4.8-4.9 0-60. When it comes to handling, well its in another world, its handling traints turn a Modena green with envy. No road legal production car car touch it in handling for twice the price. I still have the dream that the Elise will do so well I can replace my track car with an Exige, but likely it will not come and I will have to "settle" for the Elise.

Vandy

cK TL

The elise is quick in the 0-60 category. I think it does a 12 second flat 1/4 mile. Handling is unmatched. The only setback is the top end speed which i believe is around 130-140 mph. I'm not saying this isn't fast but for a car that has such impressive numbers low end should have a higher top speed. Since the car is so light, I guess it will go airborn if it goes any faster. =)

OuTLAw4422

German cars tend to have problems because they generally introduce the latest technology in their vehicles. For example, BMW's iDrive had a lot of bugs in the beginning when it was introduced. The electrical systems of German manufacturers have had average or below average reliability but they are extremely reliable when it comes to the engine, suspension, etc... The Japanese have had a great track record because they are less likely to come out with innovative technology and tend to stick with what’s reliable to time tested. Having purchased vehicles from Acura, BMW, MB, Lexus, etc, I can truly say that I have never owned a vehicle that I was COMPLETELY satisfied with. That is probably why I never keep a car more than 3 years. I was going to either purchase the TL or the BMW 545i. I ultimately went with the TL mainly due to value more than performance. One thing that I love about Acura is that almost everything is standard. I couldn’t justify spending an extra $20,000+ for a base 545i when I could get a loaded TL which performs pretty dam good and includes everything that the Bimmer does not. Besides, my wife already owns a 745i and I thought my garage would look a little better with more variety and I’m waiting for the new 05 M5. I have to change my underwear every time I see pictures of it! :facelick:

savageTL

The 12s flat was a misprint/misinformation in one of the mainstream US rags. It is a low 13 1/4 with a trap around 108. The top speed is redline limited, Evo shows it at 150. In the end it is a mainly a track car not an Autobahn roamer, there aren't many tracks (if any) where you will be hurting for top end. It has 5 mph less than the limited Euro cars, most are.

Vandy

NightRider

I'm not sure what these facts are based on, but one of my buddies has a couple year old 3 series and I have sex more while being single than he does with a girlfriend :hitit:

Xpditor

My girl friend has a BMW. If she is having more sex than me, I want to know with whom??? :rocketwho

brahtw8

The source of the information is listed in the article. Perhaps you should have read it before posting? As stated in the article:

The German magazine “Men’s Car” found in a survey of 2,253 motorists aged 20 to 50 published in its inaugural May issue that male BMW drivers say they have sex on average 2.2 times each week while Porsche drivers have sex 1.4 times per week.

NightRider

Nice Xp, I like that post. Brahtw8, that's a funny but useless survey, but it just all depends on the person and not the car. Women have sex with you for YOU, ho's have sex with you for your car. Then again, sex is sex.....

1SICKLEX

Ya'll know Lotus chose the Celica engine to use in the Elise we get over the RSX engine. And I hear the next Espirt will use a Lexus V-8. Sorry had to throw that in there..

brahtw8

Where did you hear that? I keep my ear pretty close to the ground, and I hadn't heard anything about the RSX engine being considered for the Elise, and I thought the next gen Esprit was going to use a different V8, the source of which I cannot recall at the moment. Ah yes, for some reason I am thinking I heard it might be the V8 from the current BMW M5.

savageTL

Well, you COULD also say the Celica engine beat out the Modena engine since they searched basically all production engines. Ultimately, Lotus pursued the Toyo lump since it fit the needs AND they had a previous relationship with Toyota. I haven't heard the Esprit/Lexus rumor.

I have it on good authority that the next C&D has a comparo with 4 other "track" useable cars (Caterham 7, FFR Cobra, S2K and Mazdaspeed Miata) and the Elise smacks down all comers. They get 4.4 to 60, 13.0 1/4 and 1.06 skid pad, for reference the Enzo pulls a 1.05... scary stuff.

Vandy