Thinking of getting the new GTO
04-02-2004, 06:49 PM
#41
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Granted GM's don't have the best reputation but how about we give the car a chance to be f#@$%& up! Some of you are already selling the car short. This is not Detroit product. Its Australian. During my time there I'm sure I saw alot more Monaro's on the road there than I've seen Camaro/Trans Am on the road here. Maybe there quality control is better "down under". Consider yourselves lucky as well. 'Cause the top of the line HSV GTS (400hp) costs about $101 Australian, or +$65K US!
04-02-2004, 06:51 PM
#42
Duck Fuke!
Originally posted by jriga
In Ohio, sales tax is paid in total - not on the payment. So in Ohio it's stupid to pay sales tax, and then spread it out over the lease - you end up paying INTEREST on the sales tax...
So here, the $2400 I talked about covers the tax and document fees for Ohio. In Michigan I'd put down about $500-$800 and have the sec.dep. waived.
GM GMC A-Plan? Meaning you get to buy their cars at invoice while the rest of the world gets $5k rebates and 0% interest? That's the only way American cars sell is with rebates and incentives... if US Auto Makers removed these things and tried selling Malibus, Mustangs, etc... without them the market would go WAY down.
You won't see BMW, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus whoring out their products like that - there is a certain 'perceived value' there.
As far as I'm concerned - I work on the inside of the leasing biz - I think I have some clarity and experience with numbers. You might have bought a few cars, but I've leased hundreds - I've seen what works and what does not.
Does this mean I don't understand the leasing business? Ha. I'm sure you're right...
In Ohio, sales tax is paid in total - not on the payment. So in Ohio it's stupid to pay sales tax, and then spread it out over the lease - you end up paying INTEREST on the sales tax...
So here, the $2400 I talked about covers the tax and document fees for Ohio. In Michigan I'd put down about $500-$800 and have the sec.dep. waived.
GM GMC A-Plan? Meaning you get to buy their cars at invoice while the rest of the world gets $5k rebates and 0% interest? That's the only way American cars sell is with rebates and incentives... if US Auto Makers removed these things and tried selling Malibus, Mustangs, etc... without them the market would go WAY down.
You won't see BMW, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus whoring out their products like that - there is a certain 'perceived value' there.
As far as I'm concerned - I work on the inside of the leasing biz - I think I have some clarity and experience with numbers. You might have bought a few cars, but I've leased hundreds - I've seen what works and what does not.
Does this mean I don't understand the leasing business? Ha. I'm sure you're right...
A) Your "interest" on sales tax is minimal, not to mention you just said there is no interest in leases
B) The US would sell Malibus and Mustangs w/o rebates as the price itself would be lowered.
C) You will see high line brands "whoring out " cars ...*cough* QX4 *cough*,not to mention certain lease specials these companies run.........your low money factor thats not an interest rate
On a side note: Comparing cars soley on price will get you no where. This $32k GTO doesnt compare with the $31k CL. Two different cars. Go buy a Sienna minivan for $40k and tell me you have nicer car than the guy with G35C
04-02-2004, 06:52 PM
#43
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Originally posted by JaDia4
This is not Detroit product. Its Australian.
This is not Detroit product. Its Australian.
04-02-2004, 06:54 PM
#44
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I think the GTO is awesome. Slap some staggered 19s, a Holden bodykit and drop it and it would look a lot more aggresive.
The AWD Morano in Austrailia has fender flares, it really helps the boring lines. The car is a Caddy Catera 2-door exterior wise.
The interior is swell as well but I would miss the sunroof. For me, between the GTO and G35c, it would be a very tough decision.
The AWD Morano in Austrailia has fender flares, it really helps the boring lines. The car is a Caddy Catera 2-door exterior wise.
The interior is swell as well but I would miss the sunroof. For me, between the GTO and G35c, it would be a very tough decision.
04-02-2004, 10:10 PM
#45
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Geeeeezus.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jts1207
[B]A) Your "interest" on sales tax is minimal, not to mention you just said there is no interest in leases
B) The US would sell Malibus and Mustangs w/o rebates as the price itself would be lowered.
C) You will see high line brands "whoring out " cars ...*cough* QX4 *cough*,not to mention certain lease specials these companies run.........your low money factor thats not an interest rate
Again - you are misunderstanding the function of a lease.
In a retail purchase, the bank loans you the money to BUY the car - you pay an Annual Percentage Rate for the privelage of doing this. This is calculated as INTEREST PER DAY. Hence, as you pay off your loan you begin by paying more interest than you pay on the principal itself (or the actual car in this case.).
As time passes, the APR stays steady and the interest becomes lesser than the principal, i.e. your paying more on the car than you are to the bank.
This is not the case for a lease. When you lease, the bank details how much the car is going to depreciate, and then you pay for this depreciation in a DEPRECIATION CHARGE. On top of this, the bank still needs more money, so you are also charged a MONEY FACTOR.
The money factor, UNLIKE an APR for a retail purchase, is always the same. If you have a $400/mo lease payment: it *might*, depending on your state, breakdown like this:
Depreciation: $300
Rent : $70
Tax : $30
TOTAL : $400
There will never come a time in this lease that you will be paying on the principal of the car, never ever. This is WHY it's not called interest. Interest increases or decreases based on the principal paid on a loan - but when leasing there is NO principal - just lease payments.
Leasing is an AWESOME business tool, the govt lets bizs write off portions of the lease payments...
Interest on sales tax is minimal? I suppose it is, but still...
Tax on $35k = $2400
MF = .00188
Rent paid monthly = $6.48/mo *36mos
Infiniti whored out the QX4 because the line was discontinued. We're about to whore out the I35 too, it is also discontinued.
I can't ever remember walking into Lexus and seeing a sign that says "SC430! $7000off MSRP!"
But I DO remember going into a Chevy dealer and seeing the Corvette in that position.
If GM and Ford started selling cars the way Import makers do, their market would collapse. The whole thing is based on discounts and rebates, NOT automotive value.
[B]A) Your "interest" on sales tax is minimal, not to mention you just said there is no interest in leases
B) The US would sell Malibus and Mustangs w/o rebates as the price itself would be lowered.
C) You will see high line brands "whoring out " cars ...*cough* QX4 *cough*,not to mention certain lease specials these companies run.........your low money factor thats not an interest rate
Again - you are misunderstanding the function of a lease.
In a retail purchase, the bank loans you the money to BUY the car - you pay an Annual Percentage Rate for the privelage of doing this. This is calculated as INTEREST PER DAY. Hence, as you pay off your loan you begin by paying more interest than you pay on the principal itself (or the actual car in this case.).
As time passes, the APR stays steady and the interest becomes lesser than the principal, i.e. your paying more on the car than you are to the bank.
This is not the case for a lease. When you lease, the bank details how much the car is going to depreciate, and then you pay for this depreciation in a DEPRECIATION CHARGE. On top of this, the bank still needs more money, so you are also charged a MONEY FACTOR.
The money factor, UNLIKE an APR for a retail purchase, is always the same. If you have a $400/mo lease payment: it *might*, depending on your state, breakdown like this:
Depreciation: $300
Rent : $70
Tax : $30
TOTAL : $400
There will never come a time in this lease that you will be paying on the principal of the car, never ever. This is WHY it's not called interest. Interest increases or decreases based on the principal paid on a loan - but when leasing there is NO principal - just lease payments.
Leasing is an AWESOME business tool, the govt lets bizs write off portions of the lease payments...
Interest on sales tax is minimal? I suppose it is, but still...
Tax on $35k = $2400
MF = .00188
Rent paid monthly = $6.48/mo *36mos
Infiniti whored out the QX4 because the line was discontinued. We're about to whore out the I35 too, it is also discontinued.
I can't ever remember walking into Lexus and seeing a sign that says "SC430! $7000off MSRP!"
But I DO remember going into a Chevy dealer and seeing the Corvette in that position.
If GM and Ford started selling cars the way Import makers do, their market would collapse. The whole thing is based on discounts and rebates, NOT automotive value.
04-02-2004, 10:27 PM
#46
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Re: Thinking of getting the new GTO
Originally posted by TeKiZeRo
Hey guys,
I saw a brand new Pontiac GTO drive by me the other and my jaw dropped at how nice that thing looked! I decided to stopped by the dealership to take a look at it and.. oh boy is it purdy
I decided I am gonna go get a black or silver one this weekend! But first I would like to get some input from the community on the pros/cons of this car before I purchase it, thanks!
Hey guys,
I saw a brand new Pontiac GTO drive by me the other and my jaw dropped at how nice that thing looked! I decided to stopped by the dealership to take a look at it and.. oh boy is it purdy
I decided I am gonna go get a black or silver one this weekend! But first I would like to get some input from the community on the pros/cons of this car before I purchase it, thanks!
Dude, buy it. First of all, i'm 6'4 and I didn't touch the headliner, 2nd this car has a nice interior with seats that are just ohhh so comfortable, 3rd, 13.5 is rolling and the grip measured for the tires is well beyond the cl's. But its buy what you like, me, I'd get a mustang GT in the fall.
04-02-2004, 10:37 PM
#47
Duck Fuke!
^^^^ Your taxes for leasing in Ohio is wrong. You are simply paying sales tax on the total of payments up front now as opposed to per payment, hence the minimal "rent". You are never paying on the "principal" of the car per say but you are paying for the depreciation. If the lease works as its supposed to, your car should be worth the buyout at the end of the lease. As the case with Infiniti's(QX4,Q45, I35) however, the car is never worth the buyout and should be turned in. You "rent" while not exactly like interest, functions as the same. This is why youll see some banks with a lower residual and a higher money factor a more profittable deal than the bank with the higher residual.
If GM was selling the Malibu for $13k(real market value) w/o rebates and rate against a $20k Accord/Camry, they would sell.
If GM was selling the Malibu for $13k(real market value) w/o rebates and rate against a $20k Accord/Camry, they would sell.
04-03-2004, 07:56 AM
#50
Administrator Alumnus
Originally posted by jruss9819
the only good thing from the land down under is Fosters Beer!!!
:pee:GM
the only good thing from the land down under is Fosters Beer!!!
:pee:GM
You realize Fosters isn't even available in Australia.
OWN3D
04-03-2004, 08:42 AM
#52
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
I think the GTO is awesome. Slap some staggered 19s, a Holden bodykit and drop it and it would look a lot more aggresive.
The AWD Morano in Austrailia has fender flares, it really helps the boring lines. The car is a Caddy Catera 2-door exterior wise.
The interior is swell as well but I would miss the sunroof. For me, between the GTO and G35c, it would be a very tough decision.
I think the GTO is awesome. Slap some staggered 19s, a Holden bodykit and drop it and it would look a lot more aggresive.
The AWD Morano in Austrailia has fender flares, it really helps the boring lines. The car is a Caddy Catera 2-door exterior wise.
The interior is swell as well but I would miss the sunroof. For me, between the GTO and G35c, it would be a very tough decision.
:lickit:
04-03-2004, 08:44 AM
#53
04-03-2004, 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by jts1207
^^^^ Your taxes for leasing in Ohio is wrong. You are simply paying sales tax on the total of payments up front now as opposed to per payment, hence the minimal "rent". You are never paying on the "principal" of the car per say but you are paying for the depreciation. If the lease works as its supposed to, your car should be worth the buyout at the end of the lease. As the case with Infiniti's(QX4,Q45, I35) however, the car is never worth the buyout and should be turned in. You "rent" while not exactly like interest, functions as the same. This is why youll see some banks with a lower residual and a higher money factor a more profittable deal than the bank with the higher residual.
If GM was selling the Malibu for $13k(real market value) w/o rebates and rate against a $20k Accord/Camry, they would sell.
^^^^ Your taxes for leasing in Ohio is wrong. You are simply paying sales tax on the total of payments up front now as opposed to per payment, hence the minimal "rent". You are never paying on the "principal" of the car per say but you are paying for the depreciation. If the lease works as its supposed to, your car should be worth the buyout at the end of the lease. As the case with Infiniti's(QX4,Q45, I35) however, the car is never worth the buyout and should be turned in. You "rent" while not exactly like interest, functions as the same. This is why youll see some banks with a lower residual and a higher money factor a more profittable deal than the bank with the higher residual.
If GM was selling the Malibu for $13k(real market value) w/o rebates and rate against a $20k Accord/Camry, they would sell.
Here - I hope this fuckin clear enough for you:
In the case of the lease of any (1) motor vehicle designed by the manufacturer to carry a load of not more than one ton, (2) watercraft, (3) outboard motor, (4) aircraft, or (5) business equipment (other than motor vehicles designed to carry loads in excess of one ton), the vendor is required to calculate the Ohio sales or use tax due on the entire amount, to be paid during the lease period. The tax is due at the time the lease is consummated. Under prior law, the tax on these leased items was paid with each lease installment over the life of the lease. Otherwise, tax is generally collected on each installment paid for the use of the property involved.
Here is the site it came from...
There are not many cars in the world that have their declared value at the end of a lease - A LEASE IS MEANT TO BE TURNED IN. Insurance companies make millions on this principal - and banks get to write off the difference between what they sell it for at the auction and what it's actually worth.
If people wanna argue the leasing business at least bring something to the table that is a decent argument... hell, even try bringing some facts??
You can bash the Infiniti I35, QX4, and Q45 - and I will care less and less. Our products now are the G35, Coupe, and FX - these are our statements to the world...
And they sure as fuck look better, function better, and have better VALUE than ALOT of cars on the road right now. As a matter of fact, they have the BEST RESIDUAL values of ANYTHING in their class... beating Mercedes and straight COCKWHIPPING Lexus and BMW.
Enjoy your Malibu - GM makes cheap shit now and they probably always will.
:whocares:
04-03-2004, 09:34 AM
#57
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Wait!! You're not absolutely fucking wrong, I AM!!
HAHA! Decided to run a contract to make sure I wasn't full of shit, which - I was. Ooooops.
You are correct, sales tax is a factor of the depreciation... in Ohio anyway - it appears that it comes close to being like a normal state and being taxed on the payment... within $10 anyway.
I gotta run and get my head out of the toilet bowl now... I stand on my other points, but I screwed the sales tax deal up! lol
I might have had too much coffee this morning.
HAHA! Decided to run a contract to make sure I wasn't full of shit, which - I was. Ooooops.
You are correct, sales tax is a factor of the depreciation... in Ohio anyway - it appears that it comes close to being like a normal state and being taxed on the payment... within $10 anyway.
I gotta run and get my head out of the toilet bowl now... I stand on my other points, but I screwed the sales tax deal up! lol
I might have had too much coffee this morning.
04-03-2004, 01:12 PM
#58
Duck Fuke!
Originally posted by jriga
Wait!! You're not absolutely fucking wrong, I AM!!
HAHA! Decided to run a contract to make sure I wasn't full of shit, which - I was. Ooooops.
You are correct, sales tax is a factor of the depreciation... in Ohio anyway - it appears that it comes close to being like a normal state and being taxed on the payment... within $10 anyway.
I gotta run and get my head out of the toilet bowl now... I stand on my other points, but I screwed the sales tax deal up! lol
I might have had too much coffee this morning.
Wait!! You're not absolutely fucking wrong, I AM!!
HAHA! Decided to run a contract to make sure I wasn't full of shit, which - I was. Ooooops.
You are correct, sales tax is a factor of the depreciation... in Ohio anyway - it appears that it comes close to being like a normal state and being taxed on the payment... within $10 anyway.
I gotta run and get my head out of the toilet bowl now... I stand on my other points, but I screwed the sales tax deal up! lol
I might have had too much coffee this morning.
You beat me to it.It is not uncommon with Hondas, for people to sell their car before the end of the lease and make money. For the most part lease turn ins through Honda dont lose money. (Passport excluded)
04-04-2004, 08:07 AM
#60
GEEZER
Originally posted by Scrib
You realize Fosters isn't even available in Australia.
You realize Fosters isn't even available in Australia.
http://www.fosters.com.au/corporate/...ry/history.asp
04-04-2004, 09:23 AM
#61
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Better read that Motor Trend article before you make a final decision - then go to the one year update and read the STi review.
I had to reread the 3 pages alotted to this topic to make sure no one recommended what is obvious to me - test drive a comparably priced STi and then decide!
Interestingly, the dealers are practically giving away Evo's here in Omaha. I saw a new 03 for 27k.
03 six speed CLS
Icebox
I had to reread the 3 pages alotted to this topic to make sure no one recommended what is obvious to me - test drive a comparably priced STi and then decide!
Interestingly, the dealers are practically giving away Evo's here in Omaha. I saw a new 03 for 27k.
03 six speed CLS
Icebox
04-04-2004, 03:38 PM
#64
WHO'S NEXT!!
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Originally posted by phil2
and an acura is just a honda.......If the GTO was badged as a volvo or a saab and priced at 45k you guys would be all over that shit
and an acura is just a honda.......If the GTO was badged as a volvo or a saab and priced at 45k you guys would be all over that shit
Honda IS better than pontiac
04-04-2004, 04:48 PM
#66
Administrator Alumnus
Originally posted by 1killercls
Actually ..yes it is. Fosters and Castlemans XXXX (Four X) are the Budweiser and Coors of Austrailia. The Fosters we get here in the states is brewed in canada and sold under license from Fosters Brewing in Austrailia.
http://www.fosters.com.au/corporate/...ry/history.asp
Actually ..yes it is. Fosters and Castlemans XXXX (Four X) are the Budweiser and Coors of Austrailia. The Fosters we get here in the states is brewed in canada and sold under license from Fosters Brewing in Austrailia.
http://www.fosters.com.au/corporate/...ry/history.asp
A co-worker of mine went over there and said they didn't sell it and the locals even laughed when you mentioned "Fosters".
Oh well...
The GTO still kicks ass, BTW!!!
04-04-2004, 05:54 PM
#68
GEEZER
Originally posted by jriga
You're absolutley fucking wrong on the sales tax issue. In Ohio - sales tax on a lease is now paid (as of Feb 1, 2003) on the FULL PURCHASE PRICE. Why would you even argue this? I work in this business - I DO THIS EVERYDAY!
Here - I hope this fuckin clear enough for you:
In the case of the lease of any (1) motor vehicle designed by the manufacturer to carry a load of not more than one ton, (2) watercraft, (3) outboard motor, (4) aircraft, or (5) business equipment (other than motor vehicles designed to carry loads in excess of one ton), the vendor is required to calculate the Ohio sales or use tax due on the entire amount, to be paid during the lease period. The tax is due at the time the lease is consummated. Under prior law, the tax on these leased items was paid with each lease installment over the life of the lease. Otherwise, tax is generally collected on each installment paid for the use of the property involved.
Here is the site it came from...
There are not many cars in the world that have their declared value at the end of a lease - A LEASE IS MEANT TO BE TURNED IN. Insurance companies make millions on this principal - and banks get to write off the difference between what they sell it for at the auction and what it's actually worth.
If people wanna argue the leasing business at least bring something to the table that is a decent argument... hell, even try bringing some facts??
You can bash the Infiniti I35, QX4, and Q45 - and I will care less and less. Our products now are the G35, Coupe, and FX - these are our statements to the world...
And they sure as fuck look better, function better, and have better VALUE than ALOT of cars on the road right now. As a matter of fact, they have the BEST RESIDUAL values of ANYTHING in their class... beating Mercedes and straight COCKWHIPPING Lexus and BMW.
Enjoy your Malibu - GM makes cheap shit now and they probably always will.
:whocares:
You're absolutley fucking wrong on the sales tax issue. In Ohio - sales tax on a lease is now paid (as of Feb 1, 2003) on the FULL PURCHASE PRICE. Why would you even argue this? I work in this business - I DO THIS EVERYDAY!
Here - I hope this fuckin clear enough for you:
In the case of the lease of any (1) motor vehicle designed by the manufacturer to carry a load of not more than one ton, (2) watercraft, (3) outboard motor, (4) aircraft, or (5) business equipment (other than motor vehicles designed to carry loads in excess of one ton), the vendor is required to calculate the Ohio sales or use tax due on the entire amount, to be paid during the lease period. The tax is due at the time the lease is consummated. Under prior law, the tax on these leased items was paid with each lease installment over the life of the lease. Otherwise, tax is generally collected on each installment paid for the use of the property involved.
Here is the site it came from...
There are not many cars in the world that have their declared value at the end of a lease - A LEASE IS MEANT TO BE TURNED IN. Insurance companies make millions on this principal - and banks get to write off the difference between what they sell it for at the auction and what it's actually worth.
If people wanna argue the leasing business at least bring something to the table that is a decent argument... hell, even try bringing some facts??
You can bash the Infiniti I35, QX4, and Q45 - and I will care less and less. Our products now are the G35, Coupe, and FX - these are our statements to the world...
And they sure as fuck look better, function better, and have better VALUE than ALOT of cars on the road right now. As a matter of fact, they have the BEST RESIDUAL values of ANYTHING in their class... beating Mercedes and straight COCKWHIPPING Lexus and BMW.
Enjoy your Malibu - GM makes cheap shit now and they probably always will.
:whocares:
04-04-2004, 05:55 PM
#69
GEEZER
Originally posted by Scrib
Crap...
A co-worker of mine went over there and said they didn't sell it and the locals even laughed when you mentioned "Fosters".
Oh well...
The GTO still kicks ass, BTW!!!
Crap...
A co-worker of mine went over there and said they didn't sell it and the locals even laughed when you mentioned "Fosters".
Oh well...
The GTO still kicks ass, BTW!!!
04-04-2004, 06:42 PM
#70
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Originally posted by tnymntana
IMHO domestic autos suck, but domestic trucks/suvs rock. Pontiac is probably the worst of the bunch looks wise. OK so maybe Buicks are worse
IMHO domestic autos suck, but domestic trucks/suvs rock. Pontiac is probably the worst of the bunch looks wise. OK so maybe Buicks are worse
04-04-2004, 10:20 PM
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The GTO is a wonderful car... I say buy it and stop listening to Acura biased people. Hell I drive a Honda and could care less if the GTO isn't a luxury car, its one hell of a car... Its not a Lexus, nor a mercedes... Its a Pontiac and while it is made of plastic it is still one hell of a fun car to drive.
And BBsAcuraRacing: Making a statement that "It would be beneath me to drive one..........." Is one of the STUPIDEST statements I have ever heard. If you were joking thats fine... ha ha.
But come on; grow up.
Dustin
And BBsAcuraRacing: Making a statement that "It would be beneath me to drive one..........." Is one of the STUPIDEST statements I have ever heard. If you were joking thats fine... ha ha.
But come on; grow up.
Dustin
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