Test drove a MB C450 AMG... underwhelmed. Picked up a BMW 340i xDrive! See post #77
#41
OP, go take a look at the Jag and some audi's, not sure if you got to test the s4 yet.
#42
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
MB allows 10 MSDs? wow...
MSD is the way to go to lower the money factors if you have the extra cash laying around. But i would assume you are still required to put at least 3k as driveoff in addition to the 10 MSDs correct? That is a lot of $$ up front for a $60k car.
Just to give you BMW's leasing program as reference. you can realistically get a 435 GC with MSRP 60k for $610 with tax included and $2000 drive off in total without MSD. with Max MSD i believe is 7 for BMW, your monthly payment will be under $600. Just make sure to go "test drive" during the BMW driving event that will give you an additional $1000 voucher.
I guess check what others are paying for their lease on the forum (not true car) so you will have real expectations. Just keep in mind that you can get a M3/M4 for about 800 a month WITHOUT MSD now![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
MSD is the way to go to lower the money factors if you have the extra cash laying around. But i would assume you are still required to put at least 3k as driveoff in addition to the 10 MSDs correct? That is a lot of $$ up front for a $60k car.
Just to give you BMW's leasing program as reference. you can realistically get a 435 GC with MSRP 60k for $610 with tax included and $2000 drive off in total without MSD. with Max MSD i believe is 7 for BMW, your monthly payment will be under $600. Just make sure to go "test drive" during the BMW driving event that will give you an additional $1000 voucher.
I guess check what others are paying for their lease on the forum (not true car) so you will have real expectations. Just keep in mind that you can get a M3/M4 for about 800 a month WITHOUT MSD now
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Thanks, I just test drove a BMW today and they didn't give me a $1000 voucher - is that going on now? The residuals on the 2016 340xi and 435xi GC are amazing right now - I am leaning more towards BMW right now with the amazing residuals, plus it was a lot more fun to drive than the C450 AMG.
I haven't checked residuals on the 5-series right now, but the 340xi residual on a 2016 for 36 months is 66% ... I should probably jump on a 2016 340xi but I'm going to wait until my GS is up in 2017. Right now I'm leaning towards a 340xi or 435xi GC. Unfortunately the residuals on the 2017s are around 60% or so - have to hope a promotional residual comes up on the 2017s. I want Apple Carplay which will be available in the 2017s for $300
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#43
Team Owner
What is MSD?
#44
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
Multiple Security Deposits for leasing, it lowers the Money Factor (think interest rate) by 0.00007 for each security deposit you put down. Each deposit is roughly the same as 1 month's lease payment (usually rounded up to the nearest $50). The conversion from MF to interest rate is MF * 2400 = Interest rate, so right now BMW's MF is 0.00137 or 3.288% - if you pay the 7 MSDs that BMW allows, you discount the rate by 0.00049 or 1.1176% - so the interest rate goes from 3.288% to ~2.112%.
When you return your car, if there is no wear and tear on the car - all of the MSDs are returned to you. The only drawback would be is if you transferred the lease to someone else - you would lose the MSDs. I guess the other drawback would be is if you default on your payments - then they would use the MSDs to pay your bill as well.
When you return your car, if there is no wear and tear on the car - all of the MSDs are returned to you. The only drawback would be is if you transferred the lease to someone else - you would lose the MSDs. I guess the other drawback would be is if you default on your payments - then they would use the MSDs to pay your bill as well.
#45
#46
The Third Ball
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TacoBello (07-26-2016)
#47
#48
Team Owner
Yup - MSD is 7 for BMW, from what I read MB is 10. The lease calculation I was using for $605/month was with $0 down - I don't know if they would require $3000 down?
Thanks, I just test drove a BMW today and they didn't give me a $1000 voucher - is that going on now? The residuals on the 2016 340xi and 435xi GC are amazing right now - I am leaning more towards BMW right now with the amazing residuals, plus it was a lot more fun to drive than the C450 AMG.
I haven't checked residuals on the 5-series right now, but the 340xi residual on a 2016 for 36 months is 66% ... I should probably jump on a 2016 340xi but I'm going to wait until my GS is up in 2017. Right now I'm leaning towards a 340xi or 435xi GC. Unfortunately the residuals on the 2017s are around 60% or so - have to hope a promotional residual comes up on the 2017s. I want Apple Carplay which will be available in the 2017s for $300![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Thanks, I just test drove a BMW today and they didn't give me a $1000 voucher - is that going on now? The residuals on the 2016 340xi and 435xi GC are amazing right now - I am leaning more towards BMW right now with the amazing residuals, plus it was a lot more fun to drive than the C450 AMG.
I haven't checked residuals on the 5-series right now, but the 340xi residual on a 2016 for 36 months is 66% ... I should probably jump on a 2016 340xi but I'm going to wait until my GS is up in 2017. Right now I'm leaning towards a 340xi or 435xi GC. Unfortunately the residuals on the 2017s are around 60% or so - have to hope a promotional residual comes up on the 2017s. I want Apple Carplay which will be available in the 2017s for $300
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I just did some research on the date for the UDE (ultimate driving event), it seems this year there will not be a national event like previous year but there are regional events, check the link below and enter your zip code and give the dealerships a call. Not all dealers are participating BTW. But you should get 1000 off and the voucher should be valid for 3 months.
https://www.bmwusa.com/secured/conte...testdrive.aspx
#49
Banned
#50
Banned
Yeah 1 year to early for the new 5-series and I don't really want to buy the current 5-series, especially since the reviews on it have not been all that great from a fun to drive perspective. I could get a pretty nice deal on the 5-series right now though.
I am going to have to take a closer look at Jaguar in general - the Volvo S90 was on my list, but early reviews say that it is a great luxury car, but not necessarily a "fun to drive" kind of car. Probably the Polestar version, rumored to have 600hp will be the one to get - but that is likely a year away.
I don't think the E43 AMG is out yet? And even if it was - I'm guessing the car will probably not be as nimble as the C43 ... plus it is probably out of my price range since the E300 is just barely (no options) in my range.
I am going to have to take a closer look at Jaguar in general - the Volvo S90 was on my list, but early reviews say that it is a great luxury car, but not necessarily a "fun to drive" kind of car. Probably the Polestar version, rumored to have 600hp will be the one to get - but that is likely a year away.
I don't think the E43 AMG is out yet? And even if it was - I'm guessing the car will probably not be as nimble as the C43 ... plus it is probably out of my price range since the E300 is just barely (no options) in my range.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Last edited by Saintor; 07-26-2016 at 06:49 AM.
#51
Team Owner
welcome to the family :grouphug:
#52
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
LOL - I am tempted to test drive a 535xi now though since I saw on a BMW forum that people have gotten reasonably equipped models for like $506/month (MSRP of $67k!) using MSDs and he had a $1000 drive event credit that oonowindoo mentioned - but no money down (ie. cap cost reduction). Like you've said it probably isn't fun to drive - and I'll probably kick myself when the new 5-series comes out soon - but it is crazy to think I can lease a 2016 535xi for less than a 340xi!
Last edited by LiQiCE; 07-26-2016 at 12:17 PM.
#53
Banned
Bear in mind that the F3X (F8X excluded) isn't that fun-to-drive either. I would certainly go for the 535.
Last edited by Saintor; 07-26-2016 at 12:44 PM.
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LiQiCE (07-26-2016)
#54
Team Owner
^ i would have agreed with you if you said it is not as fun to drive as the previous BMW. But they are still the benchmark, especially if we are talking about the overall performance.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-26-2016 at 12:54 PM.
#55
Team Owner
LOL - I am tempted to test drive a 535xi now though since I saw on a BMW forum that people have gotten reasonably equipped models for like $506/month (MSRP of $67k!) using MSDs and he had a $1000 drive event credit that oonowindoo mentioned - but no money down (ie. cap cost reduction). Like you've said it probably isn't fun to drive - and I'll probably kick myself when the new 5-series comes out soon - but it is crazy to think I can lease a 2016 535xi for less than a 340xi!
I know i could not wait to ditch that car after having it for 3 days as loaner (not a base model, a RWD M sport with actual m sport suspension).
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-26-2016 at 12:55 PM.
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LiQiCE (07-26-2016)
#56
Team Owner
dude, you are SO wrong. The TLX is the benchmark. As well as the alpha and the omega.
#57
Team Owner
well yah... if you bring TLX in, then we are talking about a whole different level of performance including the ability to travel time and superiority in every imaginable and unimaginable category including the superior bhp.
#58
Banned
#59
Team Owner
That doesn't make a lick of sense ![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
keep trying, saintor! Remember: underwear first, then pants! You'll get it, good buddy!
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
keep trying, saintor! Remember: underwear first, then pants! You'll get it, good buddy!
#60
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
A 48 year old that's been a member here since 2001 acts like that... ![facepalm](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
Surely there are like Buick forums for you to go post on, no?
![facepalm](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
Surely there are like Buick forums for you to go post on, no?
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TacoBello (07-26-2016)
#61
Team Owner
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wackjum (08-03-2016)
#62
Banned
Bear in mind that I didn't do anything in this thread to start anything, wouldn't it be for a few JERKS testing me. *So be it*.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#64
Team Owner
And *I'm* the stupid one
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#66
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
So I'm about to order a 2017 340i xDrive (wanted to get it with particular options and CarPlay is available in the 2017s). I thought about going for the 440i xDrive but it is a good bit more expensive than the 340 and I read the suspension / steering updates that made it into the 340 LCI (Refresh) won't make it into the 4 series until the 2018 models.
Found a great dealer in Maryland that gave me a quote via email for $1000 under invoice without even negotiating, just asked him to send me a price for the car and certain options broken out - and he sent me the order sheet from his internal system with the Wholesale prices - which match invoice pricing dollar for dollar.
Waiting to get all of the paperwork and get everything signed - but car should be here in October when the lease is up on my Lexus. Can't wait!
Will post pics when I get the car - thanks everyone for the advice / help![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Found a great dealer in Maryland that gave me a quote via email for $1000 under invoice without even negotiating, just asked him to send me a price for the car and certain options broken out - and he sent me the order sheet from his internal system with the Wholesale prices - which match invoice pricing dollar for dollar.
Waiting to get all of the paperwork and get everything signed - but car should be here in October when the lease is up on my Lexus. Can't wait!
Will post pics when I get the car - thanks everyone for the advice / help
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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#67
Moderator
Saw a new 340i (non x-drive) outside a restaurant last night (local dealer has a few cars parked around for displays) in Estoril Blue
Looked great!
![Drool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/drool.gif)
#68
Team Owner
So I'm about to order a 2017 340i xDrive (wanted to get it with particular options and CarPlay is available in the 2017s). I thought about going for the 440i xDrive but it is a good bit more expensive than the 340 and I read the suspension / steering updates that made it into the 340 LCI (Refresh) won't make it into the 4 series until the 2018 models.
Found a great dealer in Maryland that gave me a quote via email for $1000 under invoice without even negotiating, just asked him to send me a price for the car and certain options broken out - and he sent me the order sheet from his internal system with the Wholesale prices - which match invoice pricing dollar for dollar.
Waiting to get all of the paperwork and get everything signed - but car should be here in October when the lease is up on my Lexus. Can't wait!
Will post pics when I get the car - thanks everyone for the advice / help![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Found a great dealer in Maryland that gave me a quote via email for $1000 under invoice without even negotiating, just asked him to send me a price for the car and certain options broken out - and he sent me the order sheet from his internal system with the Wholesale prices - which match invoice pricing dollar for dollar.
Waiting to get all of the paperwork and get everything signed - but car should be here in October when the lease is up on my Lexus. Can't wait!
Will post pics when I get the car - thanks everyone for the advice / help
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I am sure you have done this, but just in case, go to F30post and see what others are paying in the month of June/July/August. If you can save $500, that is 500 more in your pocket.
Just for reference i got $6k off MSRP exactly 1 year ago on an F36
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LiQiCE (08-03-2016)
#69
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
So they gave you the quote for $1000 below invoice without negotiation and you took it?
I am sure you have done this, but just in case, go to F30post and see what others are paying in the month of June/July/August. If you can save $500, that is 500 more in your pocket.
Just for reference i got $6k off MSRP exactly 1 year ago on an F36
I am sure you have done this, but just in case, go to F30post and see what others are paying in the month of June/July/August. If you can save $500, that is 500 more in your pocket.
Just for reference i got $6k off MSRP exactly 1 year ago on an F36
There is a larger dealer holdback which is $3141 (5% of MSRP), so technically there is an additional $2141 on the table - but I'm not sure how that is really used, should I be fighting for the remaining $2141 of the holdback? I assumed holdback was normally reserved to help things like pay for the dealership to keep the lights on and stuff.
I'll also check f30post - thanks!
#70
Team Owner
In my experience, F30post has more traffic. There is also sponsored dealerships on the forum who can provide you quotes via PM and their quote is usually very competitive since well they are on the forum and they actually actively participate in the pricing thread.
If someone were to offer me $1000 below invoice without negotiation, my immediate response is this is just an average price. I had worked for dealerships and most of my friends are all still working for different brand from BMW to Acura. No one, i mean No one gives you their best price in their first communication.
They have a gross margin to hold if they can because they can hit a much bigger bonus than doing mini deals (the type of deals you want as a buyer).
Keep digging.
PM me your full quote (MSRP, Selling price, monthly payment and etc...) i can actually verify it for you with my friend here at BMW.
and you don't have to go through the hassle of calculating invoice prices. They are all listed on Edmund and True car. Unless you are buying an i8, otherwise invoice prices mean nothing, other than a marketing tool to sell the car.
If someone were to offer me $1000 below invoice without negotiation, my immediate response is this is just an average price. I had worked for dealerships and most of my friends are all still working for different brand from BMW to Acura. No one, i mean No one gives you their best price in their first communication.
They have a gross margin to hold if they can because they can hit a much bigger bonus than doing mini deals (the type of deals you want as a buyer).
Keep digging.
PM me your full quote (MSRP, Selling price, monthly payment and etc...) i can actually verify it for you with my friend here at BMW.
and you don't have to go through the hassle of calculating invoice prices. They are all listed on Edmund and True car. Unless you are buying an i8, otherwise invoice prices mean nothing, other than a marketing tool to sell the car.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 08-03-2016 at 07:28 PM.
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LiQiCE (08-04-2016)
#72
#73
To the OP
Please test drive the Q50 Red Sport 400.....it is a really nice ride, instantaneous torque and more refined and quicker infotainment system than before, what I like about it is that it sits in between the 3 Series and the 5 Series size wise....just right, interiors feels definitely more luxurious compared to the 3 Series.
BMW is offering crazy leasing deals lately, especially on 5 Series.
The CTS V-Sport is absolutely fantastic, test one, you will be in awe.
Is leasing and AWD an absolute requirements?? You could get a nice used Subaru Outback for snowy days (and as always useful "throw stuff int here" third car) and buy a Charger SRT 392...fully loaded MSRP is less than a fully loaded 340i (and you can get heavy discount bargaininng hard), performance , sound and presence is just phenomenal and the ride is quite refined...you live only once LOL
To Azuser and Saintor please stop mentioning the TLX....it does not even belong in the same sentence as the rides the OP is interested in...
Please test drive the Q50 Red Sport 400.....it is a really nice ride, instantaneous torque and more refined and quicker infotainment system than before, what I like about it is that it sits in between the 3 Series and the 5 Series size wise....just right, interiors feels definitely more luxurious compared to the 3 Series.
BMW is offering crazy leasing deals lately, especially on 5 Series.
The CTS V-Sport is absolutely fantastic, test one, you will be in awe.
Is leasing and AWD an absolute requirements?? You could get a nice used Subaru Outback for snowy days (and as always useful "throw stuff int here" third car) and buy a Charger SRT 392...fully loaded MSRP is less than a fully loaded 340i (and you can get heavy discount bargaininng hard), performance , sound and presence is just phenomenal and the ride is quite refined...you live only once LOL
To Azuser and Saintor please stop mentioning the TLX....it does not even belong in the same sentence as the rides the OP is interested in...
#74
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
So undecided - because it seems like I can get a lightly optioned 2016 M3 for about the same monthly payment as the 2017 340i xDrive, which would be better than most of the cars I'm considering I think?
Trying to negotiate with a local dealer now that has a 2016 M3 with the Executive Package, 7 speed Dual Clutch, 19" black rims - if they sold it to me @ invoice price (which maybe they can even go below that) and gave me the national residual + MF, the lease rate would be ~$700/month which is cheaper than the 2017 340i xDrive I configured ... even with dropping a bunch of options on the 340i xDrive it wouldn't get down to $700 that easily because the residual is so much lower (60% versus 66%)
Trying to negotiate with a local dealer now that has a 2016 M3 with the Executive Package, 7 speed Dual Clutch, 19" black rims - if they sold it to me @ invoice price (which maybe they can even go below that) and gave me the national residual + MF, the lease rate would be ~$700/month which is cheaper than the 2017 340i xDrive I configured ... even with dropping a bunch of options on the 340i xDrive it wouldn't get down to $700 that easily because the residual is so much lower (60% versus 66%)
#75
#76
Banned
#77
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
Been awhile, but I finally took delivery of my 340i xDrive!
Only drove the car for a little bit today - I think I'm going to need to switch out the run flats though - they suck. Might get another set of rims and throw some decent rubber on there.
I ordered it with the M Performance Power and Sound Kit (MPPSK) which is basically a tune and a catback exhaust from BMW. Car sounds amazing in sport mode - but it is not that loud in comfort mode. A guy on one of the BMW forums just did a before and after dyno of his car with the MPPSK and put down 368 whp / 370 lb-ft (He put down 331 whp / 325 lb-ft stock). I guess BMW is underrating these engines since it is supposed to make 320 hp / 330 lb-ft at the crank (couple of people have dyno'd the car stock and got around 330whp).
![Test drove a MB C450 AMG... underwhelmed. Picked up a BMW 340i xDrive! See post #77-j0srdox.jpg](https://acurazine.com/forums/attachments/car-talk-5/101139d1683151421t-test-drove-mb-c450-amg-underwhelmed-picked-up-bmw-340i-xdrive-see-post-77-j0srdox.jpg)
Thanks everyone for your help!
Only drove the car for a little bit today - I think I'm going to need to switch out the run flats though - they suck. Might get another set of rims and throw some decent rubber on there.
I ordered it with the M Performance Power and Sound Kit (MPPSK) which is basically a tune and a catback exhaust from BMW. Car sounds amazing in sport mode - but it is not that loud in comfort mode. A guy on one of the BMW forums just did a before and after dyno of his car with the MPPSK and put down 368 whp / 370 lb-ft (He put down 331 whp / 325 lb-ft stock). I guess BMW is underrating these engines since it is supposed to make 320 hp / 330 lb-ft at the crank (couple of people have dyno'd the car stock and got around 330whp).
![Test drove a MB C450 AMG... underwhelmed. Picked up a BMW 340i xDrive! See post #77-j0srdox.jpg](https://acurazine.com/forums/attachments/car-talk-5/101139d1683151421t-test-drove-mb-c450-amg-underwhelmed-picked-up-bmw-340i-xdrive-see-post-77-j0srdox.jpg)
Thanks everyone for your help!
#78
Suzuka Master
Hands down my favorite color. From your last post it looked like you were leaning M3, what made you choose the 340i?
#79
Liquid Ice
Thread Starter
Problem is - most dealers will not sell an 'M' car at invoice price - I tried chasing down a few 2016 M3's and couldn't find anyone close by willing to deal on one.
The other thing that changed is September/October lease rates on the 2017 340i xDrive got much better and I was able to qualify for the Corporate Fleet program. So my lease payments dropped by about $100/month because of that (from ~$700 a month to about ~$600 a month). So factoring all that in - I ended up with the 340
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
From some of the different things I've read - I think the 340 might be a better fit for a daily driver, especially with the xDrive - while the M3 is better suited as a track car. Not sure - maybe next time I'll consider an M3
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#80
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2001
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So undecided - because it seems like I can get a lightly optioned 2016 M3 for about the same monthly payment as the 2017 340i xDrive, which would be better than most of the cars I'm considering I think?
Trying to negotiate with a local dealer now that has a 2016 M3 with the Executive Package, 7 speed Dual Clutch, 19" black rims - if they sold it to me @ invoice price (which maybe they can even go below that) and gave me the national residual + MF, the lease rate would be ~$700/month which is cheaper than the 2017 340i xDrive I configured ... even with dropping a bunch of options on the 340i xDrive it wouldn't get down to $700 that easily because the residual is so much lower (60% versus 66%)
Trying to negotiate with a local dealer now that has a 2016 M3 with the Executive Package, 7 speed Dual Clutch, 19" black rims - if they sold it to me @ invoice price (which maybe they can even go below that) and gave me the national residual + MF, the lease rate would be ~$700/month which is cheaper than the 2017 340i xDrive I configured ... even with dropping a bunch of options on the 340i xDrive it wouldn't get down to $700 that easily because the residual is so much lower (60% versus 66%)