Some thoughts on my CTS-V after two months, vs. my RL-vid added
 

This is my 10 000th post on this site. Some people here postwhore their 10kth, but I am choosing a more useful approach. I've had my 2009 CTS-V for a little over two months now, and am thoroughly enjoying the car. The quality is better than I was expecting from GM so far, with the only problem being the occasional pop in the sunroof. It took a long time to write this, as I wrote snippets of this after driving the car at one time or another, so here's two months worth of notes.

EDIT: some spelling errors and clarifications added 6/2/09

CLIFF'S as this is a LONG post:

I love this car and GM rocks for making it :bow:
Interior not quite up to RL standard but who cares, I've got 556 hp!, and it's still an excellent effort by GM
Like the navi, though I'm still becoming used to the interface so my opinion is incomplete
Manual mode is awesome
Did I say, I love this car? And that GM rocks for making it? :bow:
Please, Acura, make one like this, pretty please? I mean, you make RACE CARS for goodness' sake, please give US one hi-po vehicle, and I know you can give us great fuel economy too....

A comparison of the drivetrain is not a fair one, so I will concentrate on the features.

Purchase experience
I bought both the RL and CTS-V effectively online. I had no real negotiations for either car. In the case of the V, one of the Caddy forum sponsoring dealers is 2 ½ hours’ drive from me, and he was willing to accept GMS (e.g. employee price) price with a GMS number. There are employees on the Caddy site offering GMS numbers, and I took advantage of that. Unfortunately, GMS is no longer allowed as of a couple of weeks after I bought my car, and so the price I was offered is no longer available unless you are really an employee. I bought at the right time and saved thousands. I would still be driving my RL, and happily so, if I hadn’t been offered this deal.

Interior
The RL has far better interior materials. This is not a surprise, given that the CTS in base form is an entry-level luxury car that actually competes with the TL. Even so, the double-stitched dash components in the V look and feel luxurious. The plastics seem reasonably good quality and have a great feel to the touch. The carbon fiber inserts in my car with ebony interior look and feel well-made. However, there are places where you can see corners cut. The large piece of center dash plastic creaks when pushed. It rarely squeaks in turns. The Ultraview moonroof sometimes pops when I’m on uneven pavement, usually at low speed. When you look at the components of the Ultraview, the plastic used for the guides looks and feels ultra-cheap. I expect this to resolve with silicone lubricant, once I get time to put it on. The high-gloss plastic "V" logos on the shifter and the steering wheel look like they were made in high school shop class.

In my RL, the plastics were, as a whole, better in quality. However, even the RL had its flaws. The moonroof creaked when its shade was open. That improved with some silicone lubricant but never completely resolved. The interior door handles were flimsy and felt as if they would come off at any time. Mine never did, but there are reports on AZ of this happening. Other than that, the interior materials are uniformly better in quality than in the CTS.

The Ultraview moonroof has a long, thin fabric shade instead of the very thick shade the RL uses. When you open the shade, the fabric rolls backward, opening a beautiful double-panel. I personally love this approach and it looks great!

The interior mats are el-cheapo. Many people on the V forums put in embroidered V mats, and I plan to as well. The RL comes from the factory with embroidered mats, and even the all-weather mats have "RL" on them. I understand the need for GM to cut some corners to give us a fabulous drivetrain, so I give some slack for this.

The seats are pretty comfortable in both. On the V, I have the regular CTS seats rather than the Recaro seats. Unfortunately, that means I don’t get ventilated seats as they are only available with the Recaros. I therefore can’t comment on that. The seat cushions are a bit short, so I have to sit higher so that my thighs are more comfortable, works out fine and I'm very comfortable. The seat cusions in the RL were not that short and my thighs were always well-supported. This is an issue for me because I have very long legs. The quality of leather used in the RL is a bit higher than in the CTS. However, the RL’s leather bolsters were very sensitive to pressure and the left side of my driver’s seat bolster was a bit worn and wrinkled after I drove it for 36.5k miles. Too early to tell on the CTS.

Electronics
The RL has lots of buttons, but the voice recognition software is much easier to use, rendering the buttons to optional use. The V has large, simple buttons that are easy to reach, and they are fewer than on the RL.

However, the voice recognition is not even close to the RL in ease of use. For example, making a phone call is a one-button, one-command operation in the RL. You push the “call” button and when the beep sounds, you say “dial xxx-xxxx”, and the system dials the number. Easy as pie! On the V, you push the voice button, then when the beep sounds, you say “Handsfree”. The system answers “Handsfree….enter command”. Then you say “dial” and the system responds, “dial using phone….(name of phone). Number, please.” THEN you say “xxx-xxxx” and the system dials. So you see, there are some extra steps there. What a pain in the butt. The CTS’s system is easier in picking up a call already in progress at the time you enter the car, however. With the RL, the BT connection is made, but you have to say “transfer” to transfer the call to the handsfree system. With the CTS’ system, once the BT connection is made, the call is seamlessly transferred without your interference.

Just like the RL, the CTS has big, round dials that are easy to read. The LED tracers for the tach and speedometer on the V are flashy, but helpful, as with the speedometer you have to constantly watch your speed. An even better feature of the dash is the multi-info display. On the CTS-V, you can set this to show your speed. THIS IS A BIG DEAL in this car. I love digital speed displays and in this car, it actually helps you to modulate your speed. This is because a minimal amount of pedal pressure accelerates the car so quickly that you are at risk for a ticket sooner than you’d like, so you have to be super-attentive at all times. The tire pressure display is a little awkward, though. On the RL, you see a picture of the car with pressures at each corner. In the V, you see Front L/R pressure, then you press a button to see Rear L/R. That’s a little more cumbersome and I hope that the software is changed.

Navi
The CTS’ system has more features, but is more difficult to use. The RL’s system wins again on of use. The retracting screen in the CTS is a great feature. What’s really cool about the screen is that when retracted, part of the screen is still visible so that if you are playing music, you always see what’s playing or what radio/XM station you are listening to. The biggest advantage to the retracting screen is obvious, though—no wasted center console space. The screen quality is also better than in the RL as the RL's screen totally fades out in bright sunlight, the CTS' screen far less so. Disadvantages to the retracting screen are that a) more moving parts to fail in the future and b) in order to use the navi, the radio has to be on. This is not the case in the RL. The screen real estate is always there. However, you can have the radio on without the nav screen on, and you can use the nav without the radio on. In the RL, if you turn on the car and don’t exit the nanny screen, the screen automatically turns off after about two minutes. This saves screen use hours and probably leads to longer screen life.

The CTS, in addition to traditional navigation, also has XM Traffic and Weather. The Traffic function works similarly to the RL. Traffic flow information is not available in Cleveland, but traffic information is. This works as you would expect and in the CTS you also get the option to plot a route around the traffic problem. XM Weather is something I would use on a road trip to get an idea of weather conditions along the route. I do enough road trips to make the extra expense worth it. This functionality is not present in the RL until the 2009 MY, so I can’t compare to the RL here.

iPod connectivity is an aftermarket or dealer install in the 2005-06 RL. I had the POS Acura MusicLink system in my RL. I simply kept it in random mode because the system would not let you have access to the iPod to control it, and the software included to help the head unit interpret voice commands crashed my iPod. The iPod connectivity in the CTS is built in (as it is in Acuras from 2007 on, my RL was a 2006). You control everything via the touch screen and a round control knob with a button. It’s a breeze. I’m still trying to figure out the random mode, though, all I can get is random tracks on the particular album I’m listening to.

Driving experience
Again, I won't get into the speed and handling as the V far outshines the RL, and it's not even a fair comparison. I will comment that one can turn off all nannies, where you can’t on the RL. The manual mode is the fastest shifting manumatic I’ve ever experienced, when you press the button the car shifts; on the RL it was "press button", then wait about three seconds, THEN shift. Aggravating. The CTS has an additional tranny feature. When you slip the shifter into manual mode, and don't manually shift, the car goes into a sport-shift automatic mode in which the shifts are more aggressive and the gears are helf a little longer. This is an AWESOME experience when you are accelerating onto the freeway. I have some video clips of this and will add them to this thread when I have time to upload them to Youtube.

There is no ANC on the V, was great on the RL. There is a noticeable drone in the V when the torque converter has locked at around 1500 rpm. I fixed this by having a Corsa axle-back exhaust (aka mufflers) installed. OMG they sound GOOD when you get on it, but the cabin is almost dead quiet at the engine speed noted above. Just what you'd expect from Corsa.

Gas efficiency
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG this thing sucks down gas. Then again, my RL did, too, at least in the city. So far I am averaging 14.5 mpg in my usual 50-50 freeway-city driving. A Caddy tuner on the Caddy boards offers a tune that improves transmission responsiveness, adds hp, and.....increases the freeway mileage from 19 to 22-24. I am planning to add this tune because....free mileage improvement! I'm just waiting for some longer-term reports before I do it. The range on this car is really short because of the smaller gas tank, it's 18 gallons. I'm getting only 225 miles per tank, or so. Another gallon would have made a huge difference in range. The RL was getting 17-18 mpg in similar driving conditions, and with its 19 gallon tank I was getting 325-240 miles per tank.

Conclusion
Where was THIS GM ten years ago? They crammed a lot of features into this car, then priced it BELOW its competition, which is really the M5 and E63. The interior quibbles I mentioned are really minor despite the time I spent describing them and I understand that when you're paying $20k-$30 less than the competition, you don't expect Tiffany baubles. Even so, the car seems to have much better quality than I expected. It's too soon to comment on reliability, but I've had no major issues yet with this car. This is how GM should have been winning customers.....great product....reasonable price.

I'll be adding a video when I get done with it.

Wow, what an awesome review Bob! I was really impressed by the CTS(2G) when I drove one back in 07. I can imagine the V being THAT much nicer. I think what I appreciate the most about the V is that it's a relatively rare car, a different, maybe smarter approach to 4 doors Hi-Perf cars over the gazillion M and AMG cars. Please put the pics and videos up, we'll never geet enough.:D

nice write up :thumbsup:

Great write up, thanks for taking your time and putting it all together. I for one LOVE the interior of the CTS....My friend and I went car shopping a few months back, looked at everything - 3 series, 5 series, TL, A4, etc...out of all those cars I really liked the interior of the CTS and the MKS (I am an interior person, after all that's where we spend most of our time).

Awesome writeup.

Hey neuronbob, have you seen/test driven the Jaguar XFR? I have bene reading reviews on it and it seems to be a pretty decent car (not sure how much it is though).

I just want to reiterate how much I friggin hate you Bob!! Nice writeup!

Very good Bob..... are you going to contact the local high school and have them make a new V emblem for the shifter?

But the car is sweet.

Great details Bob.

Nice review. Honda has got to be the most conservative auto maker out there. So, not in a million years will they roll out a CTS-V type car - especially, with ---> "14.5 mpg in my usual 50-50 freeway-city driving."

Nice review

This reminds me, a guy brought in an STS-V for a tire noise... I went for a test drive, and I heard what he was talking about. I brought it in to check the rear bearings, and nothing.....It had bridgestone turanza serenitys, and brand new too. Tires weren't the problem, the guy blew his rear diff. Hope this doesn't happen to you. I know, different car, but similiar beast.

The CTS-V's rear diff has been completely redone as the 1G V's diff was glass, as were some of the STS-Vs out there. I haven't heard of anyone with rear diff trouble with a V2 (2G CTS-V).

The mileage isn't the issue, it's the conservative nature of the current Honda Corp. Too bad Soichiro is dead :rip: , he'd not recognize Honda today.

:rofl:

I'd hate me too! :rofl: :drag:

I've seen it and it's certainly hot-looking. I've not test driven it yet.

I swear, I'll get to it. :)

Excellent write-up. I am very jealous.

Thank you for that thoughtful update Bob. It's clear that the new V is one of the best performance cars GM has ever produced. (Hopefully, they'll continue to do so despite bankruptcy.)

As for Acura manufacturing a CTS-V equivalent, they really need to make an M45/550i/E550 equivalent first....not to mention going in new styling direction. :ugh:

Great write up. Glad you are loving the new car.

Great writeup. Hope :wish: to be a pre-owned CTS-V owner soon.

whaaat! thats awesome nsxnext

sweet writeup.... love that car!!! 14.5 mpg..... I'd be lucky to get that if I had a CTS-V :drag:

I agree that Acura has a LONG way to go before they can possibly try marketing a 4-door NSX. Seriously.... the RL starts at a little over $45k and the CTS-V is right at $60k, and they're having trouble with the RL as it is. If they really did a Mugen RL-esque RL, then it'd probably undercut the M5 but I highly doubt it would undercut the CTS-V. Plus considering Honda/Acura's conservative ways, there's no way they can drop a big chunk of R&D money on a new serious hi-po program without hindering the efforts for their breadwinners. Sorry guys, but considering the harsher upcoming MPG standards, we may possibly never see a Mugen RL, at least not outside of Japan. I hope I'm wrong, because I always love competition, but....

As much as I dislike the 5-series styling, the CTS-V and M5 are masterpieces! But you made the better decision, the M5 is not worth $20,000 more than the V :2cents:

Enjoy the car in good health!

Excellent write up on an excellent car!

With the BK you may be able to get one sooner than you think. Even a car destined to be a classic like the "V2" is going to depreciate madly now that BK has actually happened. I'm glad I got mine for the price I did, I won't lose as much.

If, as expected, the car will only last another MY or two, then I'm sure the depreciation will be significant during that time, then will rebound as this sort of hi-po car is going away, or is going to be priced out of the range of mere mortals, for a long time.

I'm not sure I believe you, can I drive it to make sure :teef: :jk:

So jealous.

I wonder how long it is before the CTS-V is discontinued due to GM's current situation...

great review, it sounds like the v puts a smile on your face every time you get in.

Stock exhaust vs. Corsa axle-back sound
 

Use earphones if you're on a laptop or have bad speakers. I hate the YouTube compression as it screws up both sound and video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY-Lp47ayiI

Repost of some recent pix for those who requested:

Quay 55, Cleveland
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Cleveland Public Power
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The memorial park at Burke Lakefront Airport
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Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
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10k! We should be able to redeem our post count for Acurazine merchandise.

I enjoyed reading your comparison. A lot of it I sort of expected. Although, it's nice to hear that the CTS-V came back with a nicer interior. That was one thing the 04-07 gen lacked and I would still totally drive one of those.

You should pick up an 04-07 model for a track car. Just a thought. :thumbsup:

*EDIT* I just watched the video. The exhaust sounds awesome. It was missing that LSX sound with stock mufflers.

Awesome review! I'm still jealous!

Sounds like there are a lot of similarities with the GXP. I've already gotten the windows tinted and installed a Roto-fab CAI. The sound is nice! Through the first 500 miles, I'm averaging 19.8mpg... not too bad for mixed driving.

So, a Corsa Catback and tune are next for me and then I should be around 415HP at the wheels. Those damn Corsa's are expensive at $1300+ but everyone seems to be happy with them and so far, the only exhaust that doesn't drone.

:thumbsup: to American Muscle!

:wish: Promised the wifey she could have her new house first. I wanna wait till my Sienna is almost paid off. I always told myself, I'll never have more than 1 car payment.

Anyone seen a comparo between the G8 GXP and 09 CTS-V?

No one likes having to pick their favorite child :wish:

The write-up and your car both stimulated my neurons, Bob!

:ohsnap: that comparo would be the $hit. Someone do this please. This would be akin to the TL vs. RL debates here on AZ.....is paying $20k more for a V worth it? :) Maybe I need to find a Pontiac dealer on "the list" and do a test drive.

Such a nice car! I wish i could afford a CTS-V right now... :drool:
M5 killah! :P

:drool:

Your new exhaust sounds amazing!

I really enjoyed your writeup, thanks for sharing.

That Corsa really wakes up the exhaust note! Very nice. I sure do miss my supercharged '05 V.

Bob...great write-up. :thumbsup: Glad to hear your honeymoon with the CTS-V continues. Just a minor correction that the '07 RL only had an AUX input, no actual iPod interaction with the nav screen and related controls.

that led "tail" on the tach is kinda cool!