mrtortoise

Just got a set of older rims for some winter tires and I was wondering if there will be trouble with the car (07 Mazda 3) if the TPMS sensors are missing - other than the little symbol on the dash being constantly on.

I was looking at tirerack for a package set and they wanted 220 for a set of steel wheels and another 240 for the sensors - screw that.

I know the valve stems on the rims with the sensors are different, can sensors be installed in older rims?

Thanks.

TheMirror

Doubtful they can be installed on different rims, check on mazda3forums.com in regards to the TPMS warnings.

-Mirror

mrtortoise

Hey Thanks. I was reading on the other site and found out that the car will beep once or twice once the car is started without the sensors and the low pressure light will be lit on the dash. Other than that no other worries.

iTimmy

There is no trouble it will cause the car itself, however the stock valves may not survive the winter - it seems TPMS valves don't respond well to being used for a while and then remaining dormant, chances are high one will be bad by spring.

mrtortoise

Really? I never heard of that before. Any insight as to the cause of the failure while dormant? I mean the tires will be pressurized still, except they are not holding up the weight of the car. If what you said is true then it might mean that they need to be excercised somehow, like hitting bumps where the tire gets compressed resulting in a higher instantaneous pressure.

Anyone know how these sensors work? Is it based on a range but they only care about the lower number? Does the dash light up if one overinflate the tires?

Sounds like I need to do more homework. Wasn't the older style sensor mounted on the rims itself instead of attached to the valve stem?

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

I dont have tpms i just make sure my tires look properly inflated every month or so and fill them up when needed.

iTimmy

I was in the tire biz for a long time, got out just over a year ago and we saw it happen enough times for it to concern me. The problem is, so little is known about TPMS, the manufacturers have been less then generous in sharing information, and most all manufacturers use their own system, so what works for Honda, won't work for GM, etc...

More recently it happened to my mothers car, she has a new civic and bought winter wheels/tires and she had TPMS valves mounted in the winter wheels, the first winter it was fine, by the second, one valve was dead upon putting it on and it worked before we took it off. As I understand it, I don't know a ton about TPMS, but what I do know concerns me, they power themselves with kinetic energy, as the wheel turns they charge themselves, which is great in principle. The problem is I don't understand what happens when a car sits or the wheels/tires sit for a while, they seem to have a poor rebound rate when being reinstalled. There is very little to support this in trade magazines, but like I said I've seen it happen often enough for it to be a concern of mine.

mrtortoise

More recently it happened to my mothers car, she has a new civic and bought winter wheels/tires and she had TPMS valves mounted in the winter wheels, the first winter it was fine, by the second, one valve was dead upon putting it on and it worked before we took it off. As I understand it, I don't know a ton about TPMS, but what I do know concerns me, they power themselves with kinetic energy, as the wheel turns they charge themselves, which is great in principle. The problem is I don't understand what happens when a car sits or the wheels/tires sit for a while, they seem to have a poor rebound rate when being reinstalled. There is very little to support this in trade magazines, but like I said I've seen it happen often enough for it to be a concern of mine.[/QUOTE]

Well that sucks. So the only way to get around that is to keep the rims on the car while swapping tires? It's all well and good for tire shops such as yours, but is a royal pain in the rear for the owners. I just want a simple setup (as do most people) and just swap wheels at my leisure. Those sensor are not cheap either to boot.

Anyone else have a sensor die on them while dormant? I would love to hear what others think when swapping tires for the winter.

Thanks for the info though, appreciate it.

stangg172004

I have the same problem except its with my summer wheels not having the sensors and my winter stockers do. The VW sensors let you change from one set to another but you have to unmount the tires and im not willing to pay for all that labor to turn off a dash light. And 240 isnt that bad, i would have to pay another almost 400 for each set of wheels, nuts to that...

stangg172004

the ones that come in vws have a sensor embedded in a sort of gel material and come w/ a power source that will "last ten years."

pic of said piece


i dont know why everyone is freaking out. this tech has been around since the mid 80s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_pr...itoring_system

iTimmy

They also make combs that are "unbreakable" and I've broken plenty of them.

Most all TPMS valves/sensors look like the one you have a picture of, the problem is they are not interchangeable going from make to make, some manufacturers even have multiple valves for their various vehicles, which makes things even more of a pain in the ass.

While I am no longer in the tire biz, I was in it for over a decade and I can assure you this is fairly new technology, nothing like this existed in the 80's in this country, the example of the 959 is a great example because the car is so rare and was never legally imported. Even in the 90's it was a failed experiment on very select vehicles. The current TPMS system has the same flaws early on board diagnostics did, its not universal brand to brand and its very expensive to work with. Factor in its fragile nature and it has failure written on it right from the start.

I think the idea is solid and its a great way to keep people on top of their tire pressure, but as it stands now I think its a highly flawed system. As I see it for this to be viable moving forward a few things need to change, all valves must be the same for all passenger cars(much like OBDII), re-calibrating the system must be possible with out the use of an external device, and should be fairly simple(jeeps early system with the magnet is a brilliant idea, but is a little too complicated for most people) and finally the valves must be under $50 ea, in fact the cheaper the better. I'd rather have them be $20 each and need replacement every 3 years then cost $60 with the possibility of lasting 10 years, because the chances of them making it that far is very slim.

mrtortoise

Does the now standard TPMS on all cars have anything to do with Ford Explorer/Firestone rolling over due to improper inflation ordeal?

I agree with iTimmy and rather pay a smaller amount and change them more often than paying more up front and relying on the manufacturer's word that it'll last 10 years. There is probably a disclaimer in the fine print that in order for it to last 10 years you have to be living in a place like Hawaii where the temp doesn't change much. Don't get me started on the 'promises' of the compact fluorescent lasting 8000 hrs either.

You know where they should put one of those damn sensors, in the spare/donut. How many of you have the pleasure of finding out that the spare/donut is also flat when you're on the side of the road with a flat tire?

iTimmy

Some vehicles do have them equipped on the spare, which is kind of a catch 22 if the spare isn't used much.

TPMS valves are primary purpose is to save energy and make people aware of their tire pressure to prevent accidents. Almost 4 million gallons of gas are wasted every day in the US due to under inflated tires - that is HUGE.