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So, my wife is the ultimate good car owner when it comes to maintenance, cleanliness, etc. and takes awesome care of her 2011 335xi. It has 75K on it and has never been modded at all. She got a "Check Engine" light, called BMW, they came picked it up and said it needed $860 worth of parts and labor to remedy which she did. She has the car back for about 2 weeks and it starts throwing the same warning so she calls BMW again. The dealer takes it in, takes out the turbo, checks the waste gate and behold, it was the turbo all along (waste gate freezing up). Now this alone pisses me off because how come BMW can't make a turbo that lasts at least 200K miles like VW can? Second, it's out of warranty of course and third, they want over $4K to install a new one. The N55 was supposed to be an improvement on the turbo issues that beleaguered the N54 but still, I can't get over how this can happen and BMW expects us to suck up the costs. I explained to the service manager that he needs to call BMW, inform them of the impeccable care my wife has given that car and that I am considering filing an action. This is entirely unacceptable to me.
Sorry to hear that. At the FIRST CEL, when they charged $860, what did they fix?? Sounds like at THAT point, the turbo was bad, and instead they just threw some parts at it, and billed her $860???
Do you guys want to keep the car? If so, previously whenever I have written letter, pursued it, Honda/BMW/Lexus has agreed to either go 50/50 with me, or dealer deducted on labor to help, when out of warranty .
So many factors go into turbo life - still on my original turbos in the S4 and I ticked over 130,000 miles with no issue(s) other than a faint whine with cold oil temp.
Chief F1 Fan - how far is the wife's commute and what is her driving style like? This information may be irrelevant in your case, but:
Easy driving is essential on turbo longevity while oil temp is low. For my S4, it takes roughly 20 minutes to get to operating temp before I feel comfortable hitting boost.. and that's with 6.5 QTs of oil.
If your wife has an aggressive driving style, proper cool down is also key on turbo longevity.
Sorry to hear about the troubles. Regardless, it seems premature for turbo replacement at 75,000 miles ...
She drives 18 miles each way each day and is not an aggressive driver. And yes, I complained to the service manager about the faulty initial diagnosis telling him I wanted credit for that amount spent since it was useless in fixing the problem. I'll keep you posted. When I say my wife is a great car owner, that is no BS-she'd put a lot of guys I know to shame when it comes to car care, maintenance and driving.
Interesting - did you notice that the 335 was having any wastegate rattle issues? Seems common on N54, not so sure about N55s.
Based on what I've read, most N55s have electronically controlled wastegates ... does that mean the entire turbo needs replacement .. hence the $4k price tag?
Not a sound came prior to alert us to the fact the waste gate was seizing up. I'm not sure of the origins of the cost to replace yet. I'll keep you posted thanks for asking.
I complained to the service manager about the faulty initial diagnosis telling him I wanted credit for that amount spent since it was useless in fixing the problem..
I hope they take care of you. Albeit with such poor initial service and diagnostic I don’t know if I trust these dealer monkeys for larger repairs that is now needed
Uggh. Frustrating. I feel very fortunate in that I have an N54 and 134k miles on the car and not a single turbo issue...of course, now that I've said that I'll probably have both blow up on me on the way home today.
I am not sure about the turbo issue but the dealer should apply whatever you paid for the previous repair (which has nothing to do with the issue) as credit towards the turbo repair, then give you a good discount on rest of the bill.
What is broken is broken, just need to figure out a way to minimize the damage to your pocket.
Yeah that is an unfortunate situation. What did they repair exactly in the first service?
I'm unfamiliar with turbos so bear with me. There is a possibility that the wastegate was failing before, but whatever was replaced in that first repair was possibly concealing the issue initially, or exacerbated the problem once it was fixed.
My point is it could have been something not readily apparent and thus is not a malicious setup. Either way, you guys should not have to throw that money down the drain. Definitely escalate the issue if the service manager there can't do anything for you.
remember, making one repair sometimes will fix the situation, but then the next weakest part down the line may show signs of failure. We had purchased a sequoia where the po had the belts replaced. But after they got it back, the tensioner pulley started squeaking because the new serpentine belt was much tighter than the old. It didn't have as much tension on it and then after the repair it did. We replaced the pulley and all is good.
The issue may have always been there but was magnified once another faulty part was replaced.
^ We still don't know what he spent $860 on in the first place, that information would be helpful to see if it was even related to fixing a frozen wastegate.
Wow, really pathetic. Super glad I passed on the 335 coupe I was considering before I bought my TL. Nice looking (and performing) car, but I was put off by the issues with the N54. One of the mags tested the 335 coupe against the G37 coupe at the time, and the Infiniti won by default. The 335 dumped its guts before they could conclude the test. That pretty much made my decision.
The 2010 6MT TL is far from a slouch, but it doesn't develop a nearly flat torque curve that the 335i does, nor the aftermarket tune-ability.
To each his own.
Tyler I really respect you, but I'm tired of reading the "performance comes at a price" excuse people make for simply garbage German "engineering". Listen I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE VAG products (despise BMW products though) and I currently drive a VW Touareg with the naturally aspirated (if not archaic) 3.6 VR6 and it is without a doubt a nicer, more comfortable, better handling, and more competent vehicle than my MDX, Sorento, or RDX were. But it just had the driveshaft replaced (due to a failing rubber bearing support that happens to ALL 2004-2010 touaregs) and I know that valve body issues can be present at any point in time too.
But why is there always a either or when it comes to performance with German cars? Maybe back in the 80's and 90's having turbo failures...etc would have been ok because it was a relatively new type of tech but not for a vehicle that has been taken care of Impeccably. BMW's specifically always have to have some ticking time bomb some where in the engine that causes issues. Can I say coolant pipe and valve seals anyone? Cars should be built to the point where maintenance should be the deciding factor of longevity and NOT shoddy workmanship. Now I know this is somewhat of a individual case, but I'm sure it's the smoke before the fire as always with BMW engines. My cousin owned a 2012 X5 with the 3.0T and at roughly 70k miles his turbo too ate shit. So I won't touch a BMW product with a stick.
Any cars can have issues. But it seems to me like the germans always cost multiple thousands to repair and also always have this one major item that fails on all the cars. I budgeted for the repairs on my touareg, if I didn't know about them/wasn't prepared I wouldn't have touched the touareg.
BMW Canada through their dealer even told me that they were making me a favor to charge me only 50% to change the $3600 rear differential of my 6yo car. Lol! Many other nonsense that no preventive maintenance would have helped... like the change of my whole sunroof cartridge and many engine leaks.
BMW Canada through their dealer even told me that they were making me a favor to charge me only 50% to change the $3600 rear differential of my 6yo car. Lol! Many other nonsense that no preventive maintenance would have helped... like the change of my whole sunroof cartridge and many engine leaks.
Lease them or pass.
For the first time ever I 100% agree with you. 1000% actually.
Tyler I really respect you, but I'm tired of reading the "performance comes at a price" excuse people make for simply garbage German "engineering". Listen I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE VAG products (despise BMW products though) and I currently drive a VW Touareg with the naturally aspirated (if not archaic) 3.6 VR6 and it is without a doubt a nicer, more comfortable, better handling, and more competent vehicle than my MDX, Sorento, or RDX were. But it just had the driveshaft replaced (due to a failing rubber bearing support that happens to ALL 2004-2010 touaregs) and I know that valve body issues can be present at any point in time too.
But why is there always a either or when it comes to performance with German cars? Maybe back in the 80's and 90's having turbo failures...etc would have been ok because it was a relatively new type of tech but not for a vehicle that has been taken care of Impeccably. BMW's specifically always have to have some ticking time bomb some where in the engine that causes issues. Can I say coolant pipe and valve seals anyone? Cars should be built to the point where maintenance should be the deciding factor of longevity and NOT shoddy workmanship. Now I know this is somewhat of a individual case, but I'm sure it's the smoke before the fire as always with BMW engines. My cousin owned a 2012 X5 with the 3.0T and at roughly 70k miles his turbo too ate shit. So I won't touch a BMW product with a stick.
Any cars can have issues. But it seems to me like the germans always cost multiple thousands to repair and also always have this one major item that fails on all the cars. I budgeted for the repairs on my touareg, if I didn't know about them/wasn't prepared I wouldn't have touched the touareg.
I apologize for the lengthy post in advance.
I agree with you - There's certainly instances of questionable reliability with German cars.
Let me start by saying, I don't like thinking in absolutes.
I feel people like us who are so enthused about cars, we like researching and hearing about potential issues, we like to think what car we would potentially buy .. we resort to message boards ... a place where people go for help. I think message boards have a tendency to skew our perception of how reliable a car actually can be / is without actually experiencing ownership first hand.
Take ttribe for example - his 335i has been solid and contrary to popular belief, his tuned "less reliable" N54 is chugging along at considerably more mileage than Chief's factory spec N55.
Maybe some are luckier than others - maybe it's the way the car's driven, maybe a maintenance issue, maybe it's a factory assembly issue, maybe the issue could have been properly diagnosed in the first place and went far too long - there are too many variables to place an absolute cut-dry conclusion on reliability. I feel this applies to all auto manufacturers.
With that being said, let me explain what I meant when I say performance comes at a price;
I think BMW, Mercedes, and Audi design and package up some of the best high performance sedans in the world. Power plants, chassis, suspension, transmissions, etc - I feel they've been known to push new technology in their consumer cars, at times, much further than your run-of-the-mill Honda Accord, Acura whatever, Nissan Maxima, Infiniti G. In some cases, this is an unfair comparison and aren't direct competitors .. but I feel this directly proves my point. You are paying more money for a faster and more sophisticated vehicle that will most likely be harder to diagnose, with more expensive parts, harder to fix, at a higher shop rate. These are the contributing factors of being "gouged".
While the 335i is no super sedan, I feel that when Chief F1 signed the paperwork, he knew the inherent risk of buying a turbocharged BMW. It's a fact - a turbocharged car is more maintenance heavy than a similar N/A counterpart - In this instance, the N55 may be a more revised platform coming out in 2009, but lets not forget ... it's not a simple car - it's not an Acura TL that has been using the same regurgitated J series engine for the last 20 years.
Chief's isolated instance of turbo failure at such a low mileage really is unfortunate, I do feel for him. I also think if you don't like taking a risk, don't buy a car that has potential for taking you to the cleaners.
Perhaps a 330xi would have been a better choice in the end.
I agree with you - There's certainly instances of questionable reliability with German cars.
Let me start by saying, I don't like thinking in absolutes.
I feel people like us who are so enthused about cars, we like researching and hearing about potential issues, we like to think what car we would potentially buy .. we resort to message boards ... a place where people go for help. I think message boards have a tendency to skew our perception of how reliable a car actually can be / is without actually experiencing ownership first hand.
Take ttribe for example - his 335i has been solid and contrary to popular belief, his tuned "less reliable" N54 is chugging along at considerably more mileage than Chief's factory spec N55.
Maybe some are luckier than others - maybe it's the way the car's driven, maybe a maintenance issue, maybe it's a factory assembly issue, maybe the issue could have been properly diagnosed in the first place and went far too long - there are too many variables to place an absolute cut-dry conclusion on reliability. I feel this applies to all auto manufacturers.
With that being said, let me explain what I meant when I say performance comes at a price;
I think BMW, Mercedes, and Audi design and package up some of the best high performance sedans in the world. Power plants, chassis, suspension, transmissions, etc - I feel they've been known to push new technology in their consumer cars, at times, much further than your run-of-the-mill Honda Accord, Acura whatever, Nissan Maxima, Infiniti G. In some cases, this is an unfair comparison and aren't direct competitors .. but I feel this directly proves my point. You are paying more money for a faster and more sophisticated vehicle that will most likely be harder to diagnose, with more expensive parts, harder to fix, at a higher shop rate. These are the contributing factors of being "gouged".
While the 335i is no super sedan, I feel that when Chief F1 signed the paperwork, he knew the inherent risk of buying a turbocharged BMW. It's a fact - a turbocharged car is more maintenance heavy than a similar N/A counterpart - In this instance, the N55 may be a more revised platform coming out in 2009, but lets not forget ... it's not a simple car - it's not an Acura TL that has been using the same regurgitated J series engine for the last 20 years.
Chief's isolated instance of turbo failure at such a low mileage really is unfortunate, I do feel for him. I also think if you don't like taking a risk, don't buy a car that has potential for taking you to the cleaners.
Perhaps a 330xi would have been a better choice in the end.
Agreed. Innovation comes with a price.
Think how BMW introduced idrive, it was horrible for the first few generations. But look at it now, pretty much now it is the industry standard.
While turbo cars have always been around, but they were never the dominated ones until Germans started making all of their cars FI and the entire industry started to follow.
Those trend setting moves do come at a cost, which is reliability. When you are the first ones to experiment on things, reliability goes down with it.
But reliability is something that varies from case to case. Many people here including me actually think that Germans are more reliable in our own experience.
As far as cost, well, the more expensive the product is, the more it will cost for repair and maintenance. That is the same for pretty much all consumer products, not just cars.
I am pretty sure affordability is not an issue for Chief, rather it is the principal. But as other have said, we all knew what we are dealing with the moment we decided to purchase a German product.
Even with this issue, i am sure Chief will not stop buying Germans and there is a reason for that.
Of course all models have issues, the point here is how many are affected in percentage. Is it so hard to understand?
Of course you have empirical data to back up your "percentage" comment, right? Something we can all look at and review for ourselves? Not just your anecdotal observations from the Internet, right?
given your long term bmw ownership, what are your thoughts on Maintenance cost on a CPO 428/430 2015+ With say 30k miles. What would you budget to keep it running till 100k
Depending how handy you are or if you have a good mechanic nearby who doesn't torch your bank account here's what you can be sure to have to replace within 100K
brake pads/rotors-$400 ea. end; $600 ea. end (4 & 6 series respectively at local garage)
battery- $200
wipers-$40
oil changes- $70-90.
I really wouldn't expect to have to maintain anything else except maybe spark plugs. I haven't spent a nickel maintaining my 650 as it's under 50K still, in fact it's getting new brake pads/rotors, wipers, a battery (if needed), oil/plugs/filters now all under BMW's "free" maintenance program.
09-28-2017, 03:17 PM
- PS - Who gives a shit about the N20 
