gavriil

Got it as a loaner since I had to do some work on the RX300 SliverSport. Had 13,500 miles on it. I thought I'd write about it here because I was surprised with many things I experinced with this vehicle. And let me set the tone: The surprises were mostly negative!

Let me start with the interior:

As I have said before, there are numerous angles one can and should judge a vehicle's interior. The ones I emphasize are:

1. Ergonomics
2. Utility
3. Design
4. Quality and feel of materials used

As far as ergonomics, Lexus has done an excellent job, as usual. There were a few ergonomic-related issues with the center dash of the previous generation vehicle (mine) and they are all fixed.

As far as utility, a clear step ahead from the RX300. Mainly due to an extended wheelbase which makes even more room for rear passengers and overall available room inside the cabin. The only thing I did not like was the fact that the overall front windshield surface area is smaller, mainly becuase of a more aggressive angle to it. Makes it feel more claustrophobic. It reminded me of the Chrysler "curb forward" design of the early and mid 90s. The rear seats move forward and aft, like the ones in the RX300 and the backs of the rear seats move aft, a lot more than in the case of the previous generation car. Setting them all the way back, you think you are on a recliner. The angle is that aggressive. Great job here.

The design of the interior, is absolutely beautiful in the case of this new RX330 car. And it shows from the photos we have seen:



Though that's the thing. I had the same experience with the Pontiac GTO. Seeing this pic above, you are expecting a kickass interior, but you realize that it's only true with respect to the design. Which brings me to the final measure of a vehicle's interior: "Quality and feel of materials used"

Lexus, surprisingly and majorly, disapoints here! I dont understand what happened with this vehicle. And I assure you, this is not the typical pride of an owner of a previous generation vehicle, talking trash about the newer, better vehicle. My reviews have always been unbiased. I dont belong to any "school of thought", only that of value. I checked and re-checked with this one, cos I knew I'd be bluntly negative, had I decided to write a review here.

So what was wrong?

Well, let's look again.



My loaner car had this exact same trim as above (I had no GPS though).

The fake wood that you see here (excluding the real wood on the steering wheel), looks awful up close! I prefer good quality plastic to fake wood. I dont get it.



Look at the center console. The whole console is made as poorly as...in a previous generation Nissan Maxima! No kidding at all. You simply cannot tell from the pic. Pics hide materials' quality, they just show design. And that's when one can be totally mislead.

There are two buttons there, one for OPEN and one for CLOSE. The OPEN button would not work half the time. Again, this is a 16K mile car (albeit beaten up bad!). The feel of the buttons was simply unacceptable for Lexus fit and finish and I dont care that this is their SUV.

But there was more. There were many uncharacteristically, cheap, plastics used in several other places. Not all was bad, just some that had no place in this interior. And they were not 2 or 3.

Another example:





Looking at this center console above, I am thinking, "it looks beautiful...stunning even". But the silver looking vertical edges on the sides, are made of very questionable quality plastic. They totally reminded me of the material used on the automatic CLS cars for the shift gate (also silver). You press on it with your finger and it goes down like it's holding with velcro (in the case of the CLS). In the case of this RX330, not as bad, though still, not what one should expect from a Lexus vehicle.


Bottom line, the quality of materials used throught the cabin are in many, many cases, a step back, when compared with the RX300 vehicle.

Even, the feel of the levers behind the steering wheel (wipers, turn signal controls, etc) felt cheaper than that of the RX300's. I dont get it.

Engine:

When I first saw the additional 300cc Lexus decided to add to the engine, I thought "at last, they are so needed". I mean the RX300 suffered from low end torque, especially in AWD trim. At 2800 rpm, there is a kick, ala-VTEC and then it's all smooth and steady from there.

I took the RX330 for a "ride" on my own, in the back, industrial roads of the next subdivision (just me in the car) to discover that this thing feels more sluggish than my AWD RX300 Silversport! I dont get it to this day! I drove the cars back to back. I just got my car, I had to drive 45 min with the RX330 to get to the dealer's, then I jumped into my car...excluding some low end torque benefit, this engine did not do anything to this new vehicle. Yes it's heavier, but only by about 70 pounds. This engine has 22 extra pounds of torque and none of it shows. Maybe it's gearing, more on this later.

The other problem with this engine is that it felt harsher than in the case of the RX300! Again, I sound like a proud ex-gen. owner, but it's true.

Tranny!

I am separating the tranny section because this was as bad of an experience as the cheap plastic inside the cabin!

Lexus added a gear. Total= 5 gears now. You read that and you think "great...it totally needs it on highway speeds". But there is more to a tranny.

Many times I have praised the tranny in my RX300. Many times I said that it compensates for the lack of spirit of the engine compared to our CLS for example... I went to such lengths to even say that this tranny and the gearing selected, makes this car feel like you dont need more power on highway speeds. It is the fastest shifting tranny I have ever tested. That says a lot. And it's not only about speed and it's about ECU calibration. Meaning, you touch the gas pedal and the tranny in the RX300 already has shifted down one. In the case of the RX330, the tranny is slower than our CLS' tranny. And also it hunts of gears at WOT situations. Totally, totally uncalled for, for a Lexus car. Terrible tranny overall!

Chassis

You think "new generation vehicle" and you'd think that overall rigidity would be much improved. Well, in this case, not really. I did not feel this car was more rigid than the previous gen. car.

So think about this now. You got an engine that's nothing to write mom about, a new 5 speed tranny that's TWO steps back compared to the previous 4 speed tranny and dont feel that this is a stiffer structure....what do you think you'd feel like as an ex-RX300 owner? I got ripped off, as far as drivetrain and chassis go. Well, that's why I never decide on a vehicle from just reading the mags. I always test drive it before I have a good opinion about it. I mean how can you ever think that Lexus would put an inferior tranny in this new gen. RX (excluding the 5th gear)? Cheap plastic? Harsher engine?

Ride

Mostly good things to say here.

Now, mind you, I am an owner of a Silversport, not the base RX300. One of the things they did to the Silversport is added a...what Lexus calls..."Euro-style suspension". So it's nicely stiffer than the base car. I have driven a base RX300 (also as a loaner) and I hated how that thing floated. Mine floats too in M3 standards, though compared to the base RX300, no comparison. The ride is A LOT more controlled.

So this is not a comaprison with the base RX300, but with the Silversport edition.

I never drove a latest gen. ES300/330. But from what I read from magazines, I am led to believe that Lexus applied some of that philosophy (with regard to ride characteristics), to this new RX330. What does that mean? Bottom line, ISOLATION is much pronounced in that case of this new RX330 car. Which I love when I go over the crappy parts of the Illinois roads. And there are tons of them. I mean, this thing absorbs so well, luxury sedans should envy it. Actually from a ride compliance perspective, this is the BEST I have driven, regardless of vehicle class/category. And that says a lot.

The ride is not floaty, though less stiff than in the case of my RX300. Actually, my car's ride is clearly harsher. I am sure, partly because of the stiffer components used possibly, but mostly because of the "isolation treatment" given to this new platform.

Overall, I have to say that I liked the ride.

The other thing they fixed is:

Above 85mph, my car gets darty! It needs constant steering corrections. And if it's windy out, forget it. I slow down.

None of that in the case of this new vehicle. I went all the way to 115mph. It goes like our car. Solidly straight.

Though, what I hated was the fact that, from the first second you get in the car, you get the feeling that you are driving a MUCH larger vehicle as compared to my RX300. Not just a few inches larger. Much larger. I felt I was driving a bus for crying out loud. How did they do that at Lexus?

The steering is less acurate too, though the fact that straight-line drivability is so well implemented, it compensates for that. If you dont have to make too many corrections around the steering's center, then the fact that the steering-center-feel is numb, is not as detrimental.

Brakes were much improved I have to say.

The ESP is way too aggressively tuned in both the RX300 and the RX330. Possibly natural when you consider the category.

More photos here:

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/L...330/Photos.htm

BC2G

wow you know (no offense) this is the CL website, and I personally have no interest in Lexus SUVS. Do u even own a cl?

gavriil

By the way, my Acura, overall, has been more reliable than my RX300. The car is 2.5-3 years old and it's got 32K miles on it. Mostly highway with just the driver in the car 95% of the time. Never hauled anything. I took it to the dealer's for:

1. Major accesory belt noise = Dealer replaced both accessory belts under warranty.

2. Badly squeky front brakes = Dealer replaced pads/other hardware, resurfaced rotors. Also under warranty (there was a TSB for this one - reminds me of ours)

3. A-pillar, interior cover was not put on right, from the factory. Just now got a chance to have them correct it since, this is my first

4. Intermitent seat-heater issues. It would go on, but only at Low, sometimes when I'd change it to HIGH, it would not get hotter. I bet it happens only during the winter cos dealer said, they found nothing wrong and I confirmed it later. So no fix here.

5. They found a rear axle seal leaking (I had no idea of couse). They replaced it for free and resurfaced the housing. Nice Lexus.

I also, asked them to change brake fluid and collant fluid. Total cost= $205 including labor. They recommended tranny, transfer case and LSD flush, I said I will wait till 60K for that.

My CLS has had no fluid flushes yet. It's 4 years old but only 31K miles on it. I am thinking of doing some of it soon. But as far as problems, I only had the intermittent issue with the auto-down driver's window, that partially happens during very hot days. I can live with that, I wont even have them check it. Oh yes, I also had a fog light lamp go out on me, dealer replaced for free. And the brake TSB they fixed for free (pads and resurfaced rotors).

gavriil

Yeah I own a CL (u missed my signature obviously). You think this is an irrelevant post for this part of the forum ah?

cmark

noob alert!!!

TypeSAddict

Gav is an awesome writer and contributes an immense amount of info to our Automotive News section. If you don't want to read about a Lexus SUV, don't click on a post entitled: "Personal Review: Two days with a Lexus RX330."

:noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob:

TypeSAddict

But I bet the quality of materials inside the RX is better than those in the CLS, no?

TypeSAddict

Also, one more thing, are you sure that that is fake wood? It only mentions walnut wood trim on the Lexus website, nothing about wood-like trim being standard. I would be very surprised if any Lexus vehicle had plood on it.......

Minch00

Gav is the man, he has provided so much info to the people on this site it's not even funny!

pimpscls

wow stupid muthafuckin noob, gav is the man, he always gives the down low on the new rides

gavriil

Most of it, yes, it is.

gavriil

Boy, I feel like I got bodygurds here Thanks boys

Seriously though, it's OK. I have heard this kinf of reaction before. Sometimes people misunderstand this part of the forum as "CL Car Talk" and not as "ANY Car Talk" which it really is. Easy to be mislead sometimes. No worries.

louisn

Great review. Interesting. My wife has the 2002 Highlander which is very similiar an the 330 and built on the new chasis. It was much roomier and more modern that the old RX when we were comparing them and built on the new chasis, The 6 cylinder is silky smooth.

gavriil

The new chassis for sure provides for more room inside. Your V6 is the 3 liter right?

Minch00

We have your back Gav, just keep bringing us those awesome news stories before anyone else, and providing us with so much info and pics. You do a great job!


The RX330 seems like a nice car/SUV, do you think your experience would have been better had it been a SilverSport RX330, or do those even exist?(Sorry, I'm not up on Lexuses, expect for the new GS )

gavriil

Thanks on the first part.

No, there is no Silversport 330. Not yet at least.

I dont think I would have been as critical, had I not been a current RX owner, though, I would not have been impressed with the tranny and the interior quality of materials used.

Maximized

My mom has an RX330 with a black interior and burl walmnut trim. The interior is gorgeous. Two of my friends have RX300s and they were impressed with the interiors. As for power, the RX330 is quicker than the 300. Maybe you got a poor example?

SilverCL225hp

My parents have a Flint Mica RX330, very satisfied with everything about this SUV. By the way, I never found any "expensive" looking materials important or impressive. When the interior design sucks, everything looks ugly no matter how tight the gaps are and how rich the wood/plastics look. Also, as long as the parts don't fall apart, why do you care? Acura TL has the best interior in the class, so what? The mechanical things are much more important than what type of leather or fake wood the car uses. The important thing about this RX330 is that it provides the ride quality as close to the near-luxury sedans as possible, if not yet on par with the best of them.

MJMeucci

Gav are you sure that the wood is fake? I am not calling your judgement into question, but when we were buying out Lexus, a GX 470, we looked quite extensively at the RX330 and I am pretty sure that the wood was real, and to me it seemed real when we have had the 330's as loaners. I do agree with you about the silver trim, however, it is very flimsy and suprisingly not up to Lexus standards.

gavriil

Maybe in the case of the engine (still doubt it though), but as far as the interior, impossible.

For someone that gets in and sees the interior quickly, one could be fooled by its gorgeous design and skip the quality of the materials used. You got to feel, touch and play with everything in order to get a good experience. Plus, think about it. If I were, I'd probably say the same to your mother. People dont like to be critical of an owner's car, especially when it's new and especially when it's a luxury car. Think about it.

gavriil

I think one cares because of the example I gave above. When you push the OPEN or CLOSE (center lower console) buttons and the you feel like you're pushing something that is ready to give up any moment, it takes a lot out of the "luxury vehicle" experience.

The FEEL of the interior materials, is as important as its design and utility, in my opinion (and I have not had anyone disagree with that up to now).

Dont get me wrong. Not everything was cheap inside. Probably 70% of the interior was of the quality it should have been. Though, 30% to me, is way too much to fall short on.

gavriil

The wood on the steering wheel, as I noted, was real. The rest was fake. If it was not fake, then even more shame to Lexus. That was the worst "wood" I have ever felt or seen. It was a really bad implementation overall.

I am glad you agree about the silver plastic on the center dashboard. The sad thing about that is the fact that, that part of the dash, is possibly the most beautiful in terms of design. When I first saw the 330's interior, that was the part the caught my eye first and thought "what a great interior this is!". Bullshit! What a waste!

gavriil

I am surely overy criticial here with the comments about the interior. I noted a reason above, related to being an RX owner (albeit previous gen.).

The other reason is because even if the interior was par with the previous car (with respect to quality of materials used), then I 'd still be bitching. Mainly because you expect from Lexus to bring everything a step ahead with a new generation car. You expect that, which means you should not be surprised to see an improvement, just be curious HOW MUCH of an improvement there is. To go a step, or steps back, in so many respects, to me is totally unacceptable.

I hope this is not a trend for Lexus and we start seeing the mistakes BMW has been making (including the interior).

Also, dont forget that this is Lexus' bread and butter vehicle. More that half of the vehicles they sell are RXs! If anything, this is the vehicle they should have paid the most attention to. Logically one can extrapolate and expect worse things from the rest of their range.

Maximized

I don't know, my opinion is the materials are great. My mom and dad have owned numerous luxury cars and this one is on par. The interior isn't as nice as my dads A8L, but then again the RX330 is a lot cheaper. The only thing I can think of is maybe the color of the interior makes a difference. My moms RX has a black interior with different wood than shown in the pics above. Maybe the lighter color looks cheaper?

heyitsme

If you tap your fingernail on the silver plastic you can tell its not great, but I don't think theres much they can do to make it better. Silver plastic in general seems to be a weakness in cars.

1SICKLEX

:noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob: :noob:
Why don't u contribute something remotely valuable here.

Gav no Lexus has ever had fake wood. Only real wood. Good review, Lexus is not perfect, just pursuing it.

If the 400H reviews hold up well and after I drive it, I'm gonna replace my mothers AWD RX 300 with it. She actually washes her RX, she never washed her SC or 929. She's happy. The only thing I had to replace was a rear light burned out early. The loaners I've had, no problems.
Lexus does cut costs like all other companies, they just have done a much better job of hiding it.

chungkopi

Gav, awesome review, but i have to disagree here. i've driven my friends' RX 300 and RX330, and i always felt that interior was the only improvement. although, it didn't wow me, it still looked better than previous Gen IMO. i do not like the exterior because it became more feminine IMO.

chungkopi

worst reply ever. unbelievable.

Sarlacc

I think the exterior became much more agressive and muscular.

ItalianStallion

omg, my friend's mom just got one so we took it for a spin, what an awesome car. feels soooo much better than the old gen inside, esp in the back seat. i cant wait for the 400h.

ItalianStallion

agreed. someone musta woke up on the high and mighty side of the bed this morning.

synth19

Is the "B" in CleanB stand for BANNED?

babyblue

I got to say it, that one of the best reviews I have seen on the site... Good well done mate.... :thumbsup?

chungkopi

it became more of mom's car IMO. i rather get FX's

JRock

"cab forward"

And I totally agree about the GTO - interior looks like it could be nice but when you actually get in the car and touch the pieces and try to turn the knobs, all that disappears and the reality of the low quality interior becomes apparent. So that was a good comparison comment because I can relate to that and it helps me understand exactly what you mean regarding the RX330's interior.

Also, "Open" and "Close" buttons? That's sooooo tacky!

gavriil

I think you have a point in the end, about the color. Lighter colors do tend to look cheaper than darker colors. And the interior in my RX300 is dark.

gavriil

The answer to this is "brushed aluminum" like in the case of my RX300 Silversport. Looks great and sporty! Otherwise use wood.

gavriil

Oh boy. If that were real wood, then what's wood doing in a luxury car's interior! It looked terrible, I kid you not.

I was thinking of the same exact thing before I test drove this 330. Now I am thinking, I have to test drive it before jumping into any conclusions. The 35 extra HP are badly needed in the case of the 330.




I agree. Though in the case of the 330, they are losing their touch I think. Hiding it, that is.

gavriil

THere is no question about the rear. There are only improvements in the rear. They have a separate mini center console with integrated cupholders which you can flip up and make it disapear. Plus it works as a handrest at the same time. Very intuitive. That falls under the "utility" part of the ways one can measure an interior.

As I said, more legroom than you need, sliding rear seats AND my favorite, the rear seat backs, fall back so much, you think you're on a recliner. Excellent job done there.

gavriil

Thanks.