DAYTA

So I've freed up some cash and I think I'm going to put it towards more car stuff (surprise surprise). I have two options I'm toying with and I can't decide which one makes more sense.

A quick automotive background, I currently have 3 cars in the stable. My wife drives a 2015 BMW F31 M-Sport wagon so she's taken care of and doesn't need a new car for a while. I currently have a 2010 Audi A6 3.0T with the Stg1 APR flash as my DD and a fairly modified 1997 Acura NSX as my weekend toy/trophy. My options are:

1) Sell the A6 and pick up a (higher mileage) used RS4.
2) Keep the A6 and go FI with the NSX (either turbo or centrifugal S/C)

The A6 is the newest addition, I've had it 4 months. All the maintenance is up-to-date, brand new tires, and the 3.0T is known to be quite reliable from what I've read. Plus, with the APR flash it's actually a pretty quick car (sub-5 0-60, low 13s 1/4). By all accounts, it's the perfect DD...I'm just a little bored with it already. I've lusted for a V8 for a long time and I think I found a RS4 locally that has been taken care of and might work as a DD.

For the NSX, I've modded it quite a bit already (suspension, wheels/tires, brakes, chassis bracing, FI-ready clutch/lightweight flywheel, etc). In fact, the only thing I'd have left to do is add power. I kept the engine relatively untouched outside of some basic bolt-ons, but now I'm starting to crave more power and the only way to do that realistically is to go FI. My main concern is affecting driveability. The C32B is such a sweet motor and I'd hate to alter the linear power delivery and instant throttle response. Can't have everything I guess - first world problems at their finest.

What would you guys do?

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

no replacement for displacement...

we have two v8 DDs in my household...

CCColtsicehockey

That is a tough one for sure. If you are going to go power for the NSX I would go supercharger instead of turbo as it will keep that more linear power band the car already has. I would first have to ask does the A6 have any sort of warranty to it? If so I assume you would be losing that by going to a higher mileage RS4. Knowing how much you always wanted the NSX I don't think you will be getting rid of it anytime soon or ever so you will have more time down the road to add boost to the NSX I would vote for an RS4 for now.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Rs4

SamDoe1

There's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd DD a RS4. The reliability (or lack thereof) would make it a weekend toy at best unless it came with a warranty. If you want a fun toy car with a V8, I'd suggest a Chevy SS, Charger SRT, MB AMG (older one), etc...

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

I'm with ya, the A6 is boring in comparison to a B7 RS4. The only thing I'd be worried about is if the RS4 has excessive oil consumption. A member here had the same issues with his red RS4 and I've also heard first hand accounts from other owners.

In the real world, nobody asks for an oil analysis when purchasing a car but it might save you a headache in the long run. Other than that, a few carbon cleanings, DRC suspension, they're pretty solid

Sounds like you're set on an Audi ... but what about a 4 door 6MT M3? What's your price

In the end, buy what makes you happy

DAYTA

Yes, when I picked up the A6 I also purchased a 5-year extended warranty through Advantage Auto. It is a refundable policy (pro-rated, of course) so I could get most of it back if I decided to sell the car. Either that or possibly roll it into a new policy on the RS4.

And you're definitely right about the NSX - I don't ever plan to sell it!

I could get a 3rd-party extended warranty if I wanted, but I've heard decent things about its engine be relatively reliable outside of the carbon issues. To me, $1k for carbon cleaning every 20k miles doesn't sound like an exorbitant maintenance expense...especially given what I've spent on cars in the past. The RS4 I'm looking at has coilovers, so that would negate the DRC issues I've read. Interesting info on the oil consumption, but I guess Audis are known for this? I'd definitely want to look into it, but it'd be pretty hard to find out until I actually owned the car for 1-2k miles.

I had considered all the other V8 cars you listed (SS, SRT, older C63, etc) and to be honest, my ideal choice would be a E90 M3. I've driven in several E9x + ESS supercharger and no question that would take care of my power needs. However, I live in CT where it snows around here enough that I do feel more comfortable with AWD. I know...everyone will say RWD + snow tires is fine...but AWD + snow tires is better.

The RS4 is the only V8 sedan I can think of that is small, fun, and has AWD for around $30k. Are there any others that I'm missing?

CCColtsicehockey

I think you are pretty on track that it is the only V8 AWD sports sedan in that price range. I have always loved the look and what is packaged in an RS4. As much as I love to go skiing I think it would be a wonderful car for the task. Living in CT I think it would be an absolute blast to drive every day of the year.

I can attest that RWD plus snow tires is better than any AWD drive + all seasons car or SUV I have ever driven. I had Blizzaks on my ISF and took it up the winding mountain roads of WV to Snowshoe Mountain to go skiing. I was passing people in 6in of snow that were driving suburbans and explorers like I was driving on clean dry roads. To this day it has been the best thing I have ever driven in the snow.

SamDoe1

If you're willing to downgrade the badge (or don't care about the badge), the Taurus SHO with Livernois tune is stupid fast and reliable while being cheap to maintain and repair. It's twin turbo V6 and AWD. Another option would be to wait for the Fusion sport to hit the market as that'll also be twin turbo with AWD. Add a tune and some basic upgrades and you'll surprise a lot of people.

D's Up

Add F/I to the NSX. Sounds like the A6 is well maintained and in good condition. Why buy another DD?

CCColtsicehockey

I think a V8 RS4 is on a little bit different level than saying it is just another DD.

D's Up

Of course. In my opinion the A6 sounds like a fine daily driver as is though. Nothing against the RS4, I'd just rather boost the NSX if I was in his shoes.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

While the SHO has it's exclusivity over the A6, it's not that much of an upgrade in comparison .

FYI, the APR Stage 2 tune + APR pulley yields 430hp / 373tq to the crank on 91.

Joneill44

Benz E550

Edit: If you're just choosing between the RS4 NSX A6. I say go stage 2

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Keep both cars as is and buy a vacation property and rent it out

SamDoe1

This is the same as the Toreass SHO with a stage 2 LMS tune.

The upgrade would be that he gets a different car that's more reliable than the Owdi.

DAYTA

J, thanks for the info about the IS-F because I had considered one of those as well since it's in the same segment/period as the RS4/M3/C63. However, after reading a C&D article (Maintenance and Fuel Costs) where they specifically detail how difficult it was to drive the IS-F in snow even with Blizzaks, it made me think the only real option I had for an all-weather V8 sedan is the RS4.

Side note - how's the TSX??

One of the key reasons I'm looking to switch DDs is because I want a V8, so the SHO wouldn't qualify.

If you can find me a vacation property with consistent rental potential for $30k, I'm all ears!

To be perfectly honest, my A6 is a perfect DD. It's fast, comfortable, can handle any weather, and all maintenance is up to date - in fact, it had the most thorough service records I've ever seen listed on CarFax. Problem is...I'm a car guy to my core and the A6 just doesn't really engage me in any way.

I should mention further that my current work commute is 10 miles round trip and we use the BMW wagon to get around on the weekends. Whatever I'd use as my DD doesn't get used much anyway (I've put less than 2k miles on my A6 in 4 months) so I figure why not drive something I'd really enjoy?

On the flip side, I live for my weekend drives in the NSX. I've modded it to the point where it's EXACTLY where I want it to be...with the exception being lack of power. It's not that the car isn't already reasonably quick, I just know it can handle more. Right now, its handling capabilities far outweigh the power output so it doesn't feel as well-rounded as it should.

CCColtsicehockey

The maintenance costs are not as bad as they make out. Yes the brake pads and rotors are expensive if you replace them with the factory components. I replaced mine with aftermaket that worked as good or better than the factory options for 1/2 to 2/3 the price. My pads all around I think were $350 and I put probably 65-70% of my miles on the highway but I never actually replaced the rotors in 100k miles of driving and they were still in the required thickness range. With that said there were two brands you could get all 4 rotors for the ISF for about $400-500.

I didn't daily drive the F in the snow living in NC but I had it on snow tires, which I think were Blizzak LM-50 and had no issues, every Christmas in PA for about 10 days for 4 years to visit family and on 3 ski trips up in the mountains of WV with no problems. There were several guys on ClubLexus that would daily them in the snow as well. The one part of the article I do agree on is if you get in more than 3-4in of fresh powder it will plow snow. My last two ski trips though the car was lowered and had a lip kit on with even less ground clearance and I didn't find the car to be all over the place at all.

TSX is running great. Only issue was I had the starter fail last summer and replacing it sucked cause the blower, aftercooler, and manifold all had to be removed to get to it. Besides that though it has still been great. I am in the process now of planning another round of changes for it as well. Going to probably be stock piling parts for at least the next year to year and a half before getting it all underway though.


With everything you just described I think the RS4 would be perfect. It will be a drivers for all year weather for you. I doubt you take out the NSX out at all in the winter with the salt on the roads. Does the NSX really feel slow though with how light it is?

DAYTA

Damn J, how many iterations has that TSX already gone through??? You change parts like a kid with ADD and a Mr. Potato Head obsession haha. Must say, though...love your work.

You're right about my NSX, it hibernates from Oct/Nov to Apr so I really only get to use it for half the year. I suppose that makes another case for the RS4 - why put money into a car that I only drive half the year when I can put money into another car that I can drive all year round.

The NSX isn't slow by any means, but it's not fast either. With my mods, it can hit mid-high 4s 0-60 and low-mid 13s in the 1/4. Those are respectable numbers for sure, but my A6 is about that fast as well. Granted, the driving experience is completely different with the NSX "feeling" faster because of how raw and low to the ground it is (30MPH feels like 50MPH). But even then, I often get the sensation that it could and should be faster than it is.

Costco

Have you driven an RS4 before? I haven't, but to me the B7 S4 (V8) is dull compared to other, similar cars. I'm sure the RS4 is a beast though.

Given what you're looking for, I would be more than content with an RS4 as a DD. Sounds great with exhaust mods, is more than comfortable enough and is plenty fast. Plus it checks all your boxes.

csmeance

Do you plan on keeping the NSX for a few decades and want to see it appreciate in value like the market already is appreciating? Don't go with FI on the NSX and leave it "unmolested" (sorry for the term). It'll retain it's value longer, less maintenance and honestly you don't drive it that often so the fun is only going to limited to a few days a month.

On the other hand, if you invest in a DD, you literally will have more smiles per dollar every single day. Just my

I know you have your sights set on an RS4, have you considered other beasts such as an E9X M3? C63AMG? ISF?

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Would you ever track your car?

If I was in that situation, I would keep the NSX as is, sell the A6 and pick up a fun little roadster that you can mod and run it like its stolen for cheap.

Would keep that NSX NA and keep it forever.

Audis are a little numb when driving it at the limit, it's not that "fun". It can be super fast though.

DAYTA

I drove an RS4 several times a while back and I remember it being lots of fun. Loved revving the engine at idle and feeling the whole car shake. I've been a passenger in a B6 S4 several times so I don't have as good a point of reference, but I'd imagine the upgrade to the RS4 would be pretty significant. Besides, knowing me I'll end up modifying the RS4 to make it even sharper.

Fair point on keeping the NSX unmolested. I kept all of the OEM parts in case I ever needed to put it back to stock and sell it...key word being "needed" because if possible, I don't ever plan to sell it. It was my dream car for years!

I had commented on the other cars you mentioned. My ideal would be an ESS supercharged E90 M3, but since this is a DD and I live in the Northeast where snow can get pretty bad, my only choice for a fun V8 sedan with AWD is the RS4.

Appreciate the suggestion, but the only reason I would get rid of a perfectly good DD like my A6 is for a V8 sedan with AWD. These days, I don't have time to track-prep a car with a new baby in the house and I'm happy with keeping the NSX forever as my weekend toy.

SamDoe1

Why not S6, S7, or RS7? The V10 S6 has probably dropped in value quite far and the S7/RS7's are probably down pretty far too... The S6 has MOAR CYLINDERS!

edit: lol, just looked. RS7 has most definitely not come down that far in price.

Another fun one might be a S600 4Matic (V12!!!) which is a fantastic luxury barge that goes way faster than it should be able to.

CCColtsicehockey

no RS7 have not dropped in price much at all yet

black label

I've been fortunate enough to get some seat time in an 04 NSX with a comptech SC. It pulls in 4th gear the way your NSX pulls in 2nd, very linear no real surges. If you went fi on the NSX, I would also lean towards SC over TC. The punch of a turbo can unsettle a balanced car and make it more of a white knuckle ride.

00TL-P3.2

I vote leave the NSX as is & get the RS.

TacoBello

I personally think it is sacrilegious to modify an NSX. That car will be worth infinitely more in stock condition, and it was a car always meant to be about handling, not straight line speed. If you're in the right gear, you have more than enough power to get out of a corner.

That being said, I also think the RS4 is a great idea for a DD

I don't like either of your options

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Keep the NSX NA, get a RL SH AWD with upgraded tires.

csmeance

would you ever consider a modded 335? I hear they can be as fast as a modern M3.

TacoBello

Fixed.

godfather2

throw a few mods on the a6 and enjoy!

DAYTA

I have all of the OEM parts for the NSX, and nothing I've done to the car is irreversible. That being said, I didn't buy the car as an investment - I bought it to enjoy it.

And while I agree the car was designed with handling as priority over outright speed, there's no question that the chassis is capable of handling plenty more power than what came from the Honda factory. I don't think going FI would upset the balance of the car.

I had considered a 335i before I picked up the A6, but now I'm really only interested in moving to a V8 right now. It's not just about the speed to me - I crave the V8 rumble.

Honestly, it's looking more like I don't have a choice. The amount I'd lose trading in the A6 just doesn't make sense right now. I think my only hope is to sell it private party.

I remember when I test drove a 2011 S6 a month ago, it felt so much more entertaining to drive than my A6...though a V10 helps. My A6 is already quick with the APR reflash, but maybe a set of coilovers, swaybars, and sticky tires is all it needs to be fun.

DAYTA

Forgot to post some random pics of the NSX:

myron

iTrader: (4)

^ fuuuuuuck that is sick

sixsixfour

+1

that is just pure sex

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I would supercharge the nsx. The enjoyment you'd get out of a supercharged nsx would out weigh the enjoyment of a faster DD.

DAYTA

Update to this thread...

So I sort of cheated and did both .

For the NSX, I didn't go FI but I did end up swapping out for a full aftermarket exhaust system (headers, high-flow cats, 2.5" exhaust). I got the entire package brand new from the manufacturer for a good price, so I couldn't pass it up.

Performance gains aren't night and day, but definitely noticeable. Throttle response is much sharper and there's more power across the entire rev range. Sound has also changed a bit, both in volume and tone. I'm not sure I like it as much as my old setup yet, but I'm chalking it up to the full system being brand new and not broken in yet. It's still changing and getting better with every mile.

As for the daily driver...





She has a ton of miles on her (121k) but from what I've continually read on Audizine, the RS4 is surprisingly a fairly reliable car. There are plenty of guys on the forums with 150k+ and still going strong - the key is keeping up with the maintenance, which is really expensive.

I bought it from the same independent dealership where I purchased the A6. They gave me a solid price on both the RS4 and my trade in, as well as fixing alot of the wear & tear items associated with a higher mileage RS4 (carbon clean, upper control arms, engine mounts, CV boot, spark plugs/coil packs, diff/tranny fluid flush, etc). I'm hoping the car won't need any services outside of oil changes for the next year or two - keeping my fingers crossed!

CCColtsicehockey

I came in here hoping to see pictures of an RS4 and I am leaving happy. Congrats on the RS4! How do you like it so far?

RPhilMan1

Sweet! Hope you have great times and no problems with her.