Motortrend: M3 vs CTS-V vs RS5
I completely agree with what they said.
08-12-2010, 08:24 AM
#125
My first Avatar....
Subtitles are too small...can't read them.
08-12-2010, 09:18 AM
#127
Punk Rocker
The E92 M3 is just automotive perfection in my mind. It may not be as fast as a GT-R or have the arresting pantomime of a big-bucks supercar, but it is overall the most desirable sports car I could ever actually afford in terms of styling, performance, and luxury.....
08-13-2010, 11:09 AM
#128
The thing that gets me, BMW almost always beats everyone with the most simple formula.
M3: plain ole RWD, NA V8, no wild bodywork. The only thing newely engineered is the transmission, which in today's world, is becoming the norm.
CTS-V: If it weren't for that supercharged engine, what would it have to gain respect with? Looks?
RS5: Well engineered AWD system to cope with its FWD origins. If it didn't have that, it would be nothing. It adds weight and slows the car down. Really sleek lines though.... good Lord the elegance.....
I'm not bashing any of these, I like them all. But I just find it funny that BMW almost always gets em with what they do best. Simple.
On a sidenote, which of these 3 would still drive/feel like it was new after 5 years?
M3: plain ole RWD, NA V8, no wild bodywork. The only thing newely engineered is the transmission, which in today's world, is becoming the norm.
CTS-V: If it weren't for that supercharged engine, what would it have to gain respect with? Looks?
RS5: Well engineered AWD system to cope with its FWD origins. If it didn't have that, it would be nothing. It adds weight and slows the car down. Really sleek lines though.... good Lord the elegance.....
I'm not bashing any of these, I like them all. But I just find it funny that BMW almost always gets em with what they do best. Simple.
On a sidenote, which of these 3 would still drive/feel like it was new after 5 years?
08-13-2010, 11:59 AM
#129
Senior Moderator
The thing that gets me, BMW almost always beats everyone with the most simple formula.
M3: plain ole RWD, NA V8, no wild bodywork. The only thing newely engineered is the transmission, which in today's world, is becoming the norm.
CTS-V: If it weren't for that supercharged engine, what would it have to gain respect with? Looks?
RS5: Well engineered AWD system to cope with its FWD origins. If it didn't have that, it would be nothing. It adds weight and slows the car down. Really sleek lines though.... good Lord the elegance.....
I'm not bashing any of these, I like them all. But I just find it funny that BMW almost always gets em with what they do best. Simple.
On a sidenote, which of these 3 would still drive/feel like it was new after 5 years?
M3: plain ole RWD, NA V8, no wild bodywork. The only thing newely engineered is the transmission, which in today's world, is becoming the norm.
CTS-V: If it weren't for that supercharged engine, what would it have to gain respect with? Looks?
RS5: Well engineered AWD system to cope with its FWD origins. If it didn't have that, it would be nothing. It adds weight and slows the car down. Really sleek lines though.... good Lord the elegance.....
I'm not bashing any of these, I like them all. But I just find it funny that BMW almost always gets em with what they do best. Simple.
On a sidenote, which of these 3 would still drive/feel like it was new after 5 years?
As for which would still drive and feel like it was after 5 years, i bet they would all be the same. Caddy isnt the same product it was even 10 years ago.
08-13-2010, 12:11 PM
#130
Changin bulbs since '73
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The E92 M3 is just automotive perfection in my mind. It may not be as fast as a GT-R or have the arresting pantomime of a big-bucks supercar, but it is overall the most desirable sports car I could ever actually afford in terms of styling, performance, and luxury.....
You won't regret it
08-13-2010, 12:17 PM
#131
Senior Moderator
no wonder I didn't see them on my phone.
08-13-2010, 02:02 PM
#135
08-13-2010, 02:19 PM
#136
Banned
The caddy is pretty simple. Its really just a SC on top of one of their V8s. Lets see the 3 series come even close to the CTS with the additional 700 lbs and size that the CTS is.
As for which would still drive and feel like it was after 5 years, i bet they would all be the same.
As for which would still drive and feel like it was after 5 years, i bet they would all be the same.
Not sure what you mean by that, but now seems a good time to remind that the M3 has like 142HP / 256 ft-lbs less and no FI. Essentially a waste in the Caddy since it does 0-60mph in only 0.1s quicker and to support its porky +700lbs as you said.
08-13-2010, 02:31 PM
#137
08-13-2010, 03:27 PM
#138
08-13-2010, 03:30 PM
#139
Senior Moderator
Because the CTS is actually closer in size to the 5 series. The fact it hangs so well with something that much lighter is good
And what do you mean?? The CTS has a large weight penalty to overcome!. The CTS actually competes with the 5 series in size. The CTS is big time traction limited. Once its rolling the gap becomes MUCH larger than the 0-60.
And what do you mean?? The CTS has a large weight penalty to overcome!. The CTS actually competes with the 5 series in size. The CTS is big time traction limited. Once its rolling the gap becomes MUCH larger than the 0-60.
08-13-2010, 04:31 PM
#140
Banned
The CTS actually competes with the 5 series in size.
Once its rolling the gap becomes MUCH larger than the 0-60.
M3 1.8s
CTS-V 1.9s
Yes that's much larger, right.
Quarter mile is 0.3s difference.... I guess that's conveniently MUCH larger.
08-13-2010, 04:34 PM
#141
Senior Moderator
^^^ 
08-13-2010, 04:34 PM
#142
Somebody been selling you the bad crack?
The CTS-V has been paired up against the 5 numerous times. I'd even venture to say more so than the 3.
08-13-2010, 04:40 PM
#143
Banned
I never saw a 5-series against a CTS, except maybe a M5 against a CTS-V. That was abusive and a stretch, of course. This current comparo doesn't make the same mistake.
08-13-2010, 05:02 PM
#146
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sorry to hurt your feelings. There is a good case to pick the M3; yours was just ridiculous.
08-13-2010, 05:03 PM
#147
CTS-V http://www.cadillac.com/cts-v/features-specs/
Length: 191.6"
Wheelbase: 113.4"
Curb weight: 4222
M5 http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Length: 191.5
Wheelbase: 113.7"
Curb weight: 4012
I fail to see how the CTS-V and M5 are dissimilar
unless you're talking about price... in which case the CTS-V starts at almost $24,000 less than the M5 (US)
I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to spend $24,000 on. Like a fully paid off, brand new (if I wanted) commuter car that would be cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient, and would make me appreciate the weekend car much more all the while helping to keep it brand spanking new. Or a Ducati, or a truck to tow stuff with. Or save it or put it towards a mortgage, property tax, bills, etc.
Length: 191.6"
Wheelbase: 113.4"
Curb weight: 4222
M5 http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Length: 191.5
Wheelbase: 113.7"
Curb weight: 4012
I fail to see how the CTS-V and M5 are dissimilar
unless you're talking about price... in which case the CTS-V starts at almost $24,000 less than the M5 (US)I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to spend $24,000 on. Like a fully paid off, brand new (if I wanted) commuter car that would be cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient, and would make me appreciate the weekend car much more all the while helping to keep it brand spanking new. Or a Ducati, or a truck to tow stuff with. Or save it or put it towards a mortgage, property tax, bills, etc.
08-13-2010, 05:06 PM
#148
CTS-V http://www.cadillac.com/cts-v/features-specs/
Length: 191.6"
Wheelbase: 113.4"
Curb weight: 4222
M5 http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Length: 191.5
Wheelbase: 113.7"
Curb weight: 4012
I fail to see how the CTS-V and M5 are dissimilar unless you're talking about price... in which case the CTS-V starts at almost $24,000 less than the M5 (US)
I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to spend $24,000 on. Like a fully paid off, brand new (if I wanted) commuter car that would be cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient, and would make me appreciate the weekend car much more all the while helping to keep it brand spanking new. Or a Ducati, or a truck to tow stuff with. Or save it or put it towards a mortgage, property tax, bills, etc.
Length: 191.6"
Wheelbase: 113.4"
Curb weight: 4222
M5 http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Length: 191.5
Wheelbase: 113.7"
Curb weight: 4012
I fail to see how the CTS-V and M5 are dissimilar
unless you're talking about price... in which case the CTS-V starts at almost $24,000 less than the M5 (US)I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to spend $24,000 on. Like a fully paid off, brand new (if I wanted) commuter car that would be cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient, and would make me appreciate the weekend car much more all the while helping to keep it brand spanking new. Or a Ducati, or a truck to tow stuff with. Or save it or put it towards a mortgage, property tax, bills, etc.
08-13-2010, 05:15 PM
#149
This is a before/after dyno chart of the CTS-V with just a high boost pulley, intake and tune. Probably about $1,500 worth or less if you install the intake and pulley yourself. Imagine just about $8,000 put into it....
lol, $24,000 would make almost anything else out there turn into a speck in the rear view
08-13-2010, 05:44 PM
#151
Banned
CTS-V http://www.cadillac.com/cts-v/features-specs/
Length: 191.6"
Wheelbase: 113.4"
Curb weight: 4222
M5 http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Length: 191.5
Wheelbase: 113.7"
Curb weight: 4012
I fail to see how the CTS-V and M5 are dissimilar unless you're talking about price... in which case the CTS-V starts at almost $24,000 less than the M5 (US)
I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to spend $24,000 on. Like a fully paid off, brand new (if I wanted) commuter car that would be cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient, and would make me appreciate the weekend car much more all the while helping to keep it brand spanking new. Or a Ducati, or a truck to tow stuff with. Or save it or put it towards a mortgage, property tax, bills, etc.
Length: 191.6"
Wheelbase: 113.4"
Curb weight: 4222
M5 http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
Length: 191.5
Wheelbase: 113.7"
Curb weight: 4012
I fail to see how the CTS-V and M5 are dissimilar
unless you're talking about price... in which case the CTS-V starts at almost $24,000 less than the M5 (US)I can think of a WHOLE lot of things to spend $24,000 on. Like a fully paid off, brand new (if I wanted) commuter car that would be cheaper to maintain, more fuel efficient, and would make me appreciate the weekend car much more all the while helping to keep it brand spanking new. Or a Ducati, or a truck to tow stuff with. Or save it or put it towards a mortgage, property tax, bills, etc.
It is just not the same market. Otherwise this current comparo made an huge mistake .
Until this year 2010, it was the STS-V that was inline with the M5 and it was not considered seriously and failed miserably. Cancelled now.
Find one non-V CTS comparo that includes any non M5 5-series.
*Good luck*
There are zillions of non V CTS comparos that includes non M3 3-series. Because it makes sense.
08-13-2010, 05:50 PM
#152
Reason it's more appropriate here is because it's the coupe rendition of the CTS-V...
Find one non-V CTS comparo that includes any non M5 5-series.
*Good luck*
*Good luck*
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...mpaign_id=yhoo
http://www.motivemagazine.com/pub/fe...5-series.shtml
08-13-2010, 05:52 PM
#153
Banned
Well Caddy itself disagrees.
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/vehicles...ive-comparison
In the reported sales, CTS are always in entry-level luxury category shared with the 3-series, never in the luxo-midsize. 5-series are always against STS. I can't believe that somebody is arguing with this.... so basic.
Well even Caddy is arguing with themselves. Because the STS failed, that is.
http://www.cadillac.com/vehicles/201...dan/compare.do
LOL!
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/vehicles...ive-comparison
Significantly more powerful. Considerably less expensive. And arguably the hottest car on the road. Put simply, the 2010 Cadillac CTS Sedan has the competition beat. Still need some convincing? Take a look at how the 2010 CTS RWD Sedan stacks up against the 2010 BMW 328i RWD Sedan and the 2010 Mercedes C300 RWD Sedan.
Well even Caddy is arguing with themselves. Because the STS failed, that is.
http://www.cadillac.com/vehicles/201...dan/compare.do
LOL!
Last edited by Saintor; 08-13-2010 at 05:58 PM.
08-13-2010, 06:06 PM
#154
It is just not the same market. Otherwise this current comparo made an huge mistake .
Until this year 2010, it was the STS-V that was inline with the M5 and it was not considered seriously and failed miserably. Cancelled now.
Find one non-V CTS comparo that includes any non M5 5-series.
*Good luck*
There are zillions of non V CTS comparos that includes non M3 3-series. Because it makes sense.
Until this year 2010, it was the STS-V that was inline with the M5 and it was not considered seriously and failed miserably. Cancelled now.
Find one non-V CTS comparo that includes any non M5 5-series.
*Good luck*
There are zillions of non V CTS comparos that includes non M3 3-series. Because it makes sense.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/22/s...he-test-track/
and the CTS has been compared with the 5-Series, A6, and E-Class before.
http://www.motivemagazine.com/pub/fe...5-series.shtml
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0auqub8DU
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...mpaign_id=yhoo
at the same time, there are a LOT of M5 and CTS-V comparisons, IMO it was a lot more prevalent than the CTS-V and M3 comparisons, until recently.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...008-bmw-m5-smg
http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/09/10/20...s-2008-bmw-m5/
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/391...he-4-door-duel
If the CTS had an MSRP that was $10,000 higher and had larger non-V engine choices I doubt it'd be compared to the 3-series or C-Class. The main reason why they're compared is the price.
08-13-2010, 06:15 PM
#155
Banned
If the CTS had an MSRP that was $10,000 higher and had larger non-V engine choices I doubt it'd be compared to the 3-series or C-Class. The main reason why they're compared is the price.
Call me when the CTS will be on the same sales chart as a 5-series. For now, it is a 3-series competitor - as confirmed once more by this comparo.
08-13-2010, 08:42 PM
#156
Punk Rocker
None of this matters. We all have preferences when it comes to cars. Now all I have to do over the next 35 months is figure out a way to swing a lease deal on a brand new 2013 AW E92 M3 with iDrive....
Oh, and find a new wife probably....
Oh, and find a new wife probably....
08-13-2010, 09:48 PM
#157
Senior Moderator
08-13-2010, 11:48 PM
#158
If you actually read what I wrote, I said it is amazing how BMW always wins with the most basic formula. That's a compliment, not critism. It really shows how good BMW tuning is. I then go on to say I'm NOT bashing any of these cars. Why am I even explaining myself to you? I could be off doing something productive like watching paint dry...
08-14-2010, 12:01 AM
#159
Three Wheelin'
08-14-2010, 12:41 AM
#160
I'd rather give it to Lingenfelter... Hennessey is a worthless scammer
This is a before/after dyno chart of the CTS-V with just a high boost pulley, intake and tune. Probably about $1,500 worth or less if you install the intake and pulley yourself. Imagine just about $8,000 put into it....
[IMG]http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/2009%20CTS-V%20Dyno_1000.jpg[IMG]
lol, $24,000 would make almost anything else out there turn into a speck in the rear view
This is a before/after dyno chart of the CTS-V with just a high boost pulley, intake and tune. Probably about $1,500 worth or less if you install the intake and pulley yourself. Imagine just about $8,000 put into it....
[IMG]http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/2009%20CTS-V%20Dyno_1000.jpg[IMG]
lol, $24,000 would make almost anything else out there turn into a speck in the rear view