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Mobil 1 oils-Extended Performance vs Annual Protection
Hate to make another oil question, but......time for a oil change in the MDX.
I've been using Mobil 1 (synthetic) Extended Performance in all my vehicles.
Now they have this new Annual Protection synthetic.
Is it basically the same oil just being marketed under a new catchy name?
Is there supposed to be any differences between them?
Is the Annual Protection supposed to be improved or better than the EP in any way?
Thanks
Mechanical wear occurs from contamination of the oil and/or lubricating property breakdown (ie. chemical breakdown of oil components due to shearing and heat). It's somewhat common knowledge that synthetic oil is typically FAR from chemically broken down when it comes time for a change, but rather, contamination of the oil is the main factor. As a matter of confirmation, my step-father is a quality engineer at a mine here in Utah that processes ore for copper, gold and rare metals. Since their equipment is very expensive, they do a wide variety of testing on the lubricants they use including synthetic oils. Granted, their lubricants aren't exactly the same as synthetic motor oil, but with all of his tests, he always finds that the oil itself still has excellent lubricating properties when it's changed. It's simply changed due to particulate and chemical contamination which can cause wear.
Based on that, it concerns me that allowing the same oil to stay in the engine for a full year, even with a good filter, may cause more wear due to contamination. NOT from some sort of breakdown of the oil's lubricating properties which are supposedly increased with the "Annual Protection" formula.
Who knows though. 20 years ago everyone swore that 3000 miles was the max you could go before an oil change. Due to oil technology improving and engine specifications becoming tighter, that is no longer the rule. Maybe annual oil changes will become the standard in the future. Assuming the internal combustion engine is obsoleted by then.
Even though I'm pretty confident in the chemical engineers at Mobil that designed the oil, I'm personally sticking to the maintenance minder and the standard Extended Formula. For the price, you can pretty much buy twice the Extended Formula and have the peace of mind that contamination isn't going to be a huge factor.
Mechanical wear occurs from contamination of the oil and/or lubricating property breakdown (ie. chemical breakdown of oil components due to shearing and heat). It's somewhat common knowledge that synthetic oil is typically FAR from chemically broken down when it comes time for a change, but rather, contamination of the oil is the main factor. As a matter of confirmation, my step-father is a quality engineer at a mine here in Utah that processes ore for copper, gold and rare metals. Since their equipment is very expensive, they do a wide variety of testing on the lubricants they use including synthetic oils. Granted, their lubricants aren't exactly the same as synthetic motor oil, but with all of his tests, he always finds that the oil itself still has excellent lubricating properties when it's changed. It's simply changed due to particulate and chemical contamination which can cause wear.
Based on that, it concerns me that allowing the same oil to stay in the engine for a full year, even with a good filter, may cause more wear due to contamination. NOT from some sort of breakdown of the oil's lubricating properties which are supposedly increased with the "Annual Protection" formula.
Who knows though. 20 years ago everyone swore that 3000 miles was the max you could go before an oil change. Due to oil technology improving and engine specifications becoming tighter, that is no longer the rule. Maybe annual oil changes will become the standard in the future. Assuming the internal combustion engine is obsoleted by then.
Even though I'm pretty confident in the chemical engineers at Mobil that designed the oil, I'm personally sticking to the maintenance minder and the standard Extended Formula. For the price, you can pretty much buy twice the Extended Formula and have the peace of mind that contamination isn't going to be a huge factor.
Simple way to find out, Get a oil sample test kit from Blackstone Labs and have your oil tested. When my motor was a 3.2 i ran M1 EP at 20k mile oil change intervals, and that was severe driving, the car would idle/run all day. (usually 3 changes a year for me) and the motor had something like 360k miles on it. and never consumed a drop of oil. Now that im a built 3.7 im running 15k intervals to start out with, but with the low amount of miles its getting driven now that its not my daily it will probably end up being a once a year change. If the motor is in good condition there isnt much reason to change it before 10-15k for most.
Simple way to find out, Get a oil sample test kit from Blackstone Labs and have your oil tested. When my motor was a 3.2 i ran M1 EP at 20k mile oil change intervals, and that was severe driving, the car would idle/run all day. (usually 3 changes a year for me) and the motor had something like 360k miles on it. and never consumed a drop of oil. Now that im a built 3.7 im running 15k intervals to start out with, but with the low amount of miles its getting driven now that its not my daily it will probably end up being a once a year change. If the motor is in good condition there isnt much reason to change it before 10-15k for most.
Agreed. I've wanted to get that kit. I've heard about it numerous times. If it were inexpensive I might do it just for kicks and giggles.
More detergents in the AP is how Mobil1 vendor explained it to me. Doesn't stop crud from contaiminating the oil over time, and with hard (track or race) use I would lean more towards conventional method of changing your oil.
Because i lease my car, so i follow the 10k or 1 year oil change interval that the manuf. recommends...
If i own the car, especially an older car, i don't care what the label says.. i change my oil every 5k miles. I mean if things do break down eventually due to insufficient oil change 5 years from today, are you going to sue Mobile 1 for false advertisement? How can you even prove that?
Meh, probably marketing hype, but until I see a VOA and UOA, really hard to know for sure. Based on the MDS produced by M1, I don't see anything special, but really need to see a UOA with TBN after 20K miles...
One thing for sure is that it did not sell well at $50. Currently, the price has dropped to $40 at Wallyworld and you can get a $10 WM e-gift card for purchase of any flavor of AP, bringing the price down to $30:
M1 EP is good to 15K and it's now $25.47 at WM, so one could argue that the AP with the gift card is fairly priced.
On the other hand, regular M1 5w20 still had a TBN of 2.1 after ~8500 miles on a UOA that I had run, so you could easily run regular M1 for 10K and you can get it on sale for $12, as you can many other name brand semi-syn oils. However, 2 changes of regular M1 with filter will run you $44 vice $40 for one change of AP plus filter.
I'd have to say that with the $40 price and the $10 e-gift card, the AP is fairly priced. I might give it a try, but I''m a little reluctant without seeing a VOA/UOA...
At any rate, if you run extended interval OCIs, don't skimp on the oil filter. Buy a quality synthetic fiber filter. I bought a case of the Fram Pro Synthetic filters on Ebay for less than $6 each:
I was up to 12,500 miles on M1-EP I in my late 06 TL 6-spd. I was about to send a sample in for testing but some idiot smashed it. Now we're not putting over 8000-9000 miles a year on any one vehicle, so the M1-EP already was/is in effect my "Annual Protection".
$12 rebate on EP and AP, $10 on regular M1. So that makes EP $13.47, AP $28 and M1 $10.88 at Wallyworld. Rebate only good for a single purchase unfortunately.
Didn't read the fine print, so not sure if you can do the rebate and still get the $10 gift card on AP.
The reason why Mobil 1 annual protection is that much more expensive is because it uses a better basestock(Group IV) than plain M1 or EP(Group III). This also means that the M1 annual protection will have better pumpability, cold start and MRV numbers as well. In the end you get what you pay for. M1 annual protection is overkill for sure as is M1 EP for most applications. If one is doing 10K miles annually then plain M1 will more than suffice and give you hundereds of thousands of miles of happy protection!
The reason why Mobil 1 annual protection is that much more expensive is because it uses a better basestock(Group IV) than plain M1 or EP(Group III). ...
It looks like to me that Mobil1 is killing the regular M1 and only stocking M1EP and M1AP, at least in our local Wallyworlds. Same with their oil filters. I refuse to pay $20 for an oil filter so I just switched to Purolator One filters which are like $7 and generally are considered top notch oil filters. As long as they don't jack up the prices on the M1EP I'll likely just switch to that from the old regular M1.
Mobil doesn't disclose what their basestocks are made of but one can deduce this from looking at pour point, MRV etc numbers. I'll try to find that for you.
It looks like to me that Mobil1 is killing the regular M1 and only stocking M1EP and M1AP, at least in our local Wallyworlds. Same with their oil filters. I refuse to pay $20 for an oil filter so I just switched to Purolator One filters which are like $7 and generally are considered top notch oil filters. As long as they don't jack up the prices on the M1EP I'll likely just switch to that from the old regular M1.
I am not sure I would use Purolator filters. If you go onto www.bobistheoilguy.com forum, many have cut open their filters and found a tear at the crimp end. They have nicknamed it the tearolator. For $7 you can go to walmart and get a Fram Ultra filter with is a synthetic blend media with wire backed mesh and built like a tank. Its a heavy duty filter that can easily go 20,000 miles if you wanted it to.
I am not sure I would use Purolator filters. If you go onto www.bobistheoilguy.com forum, many have cut open their filters and found a tear at the crimp end. They have nicknamed it the tearolator. For $7 you can go to walmart and get a Fram Ultra filter with is a synthetic blend media with wire backed mesh and built like a tank. Its a heavy duty filter that can easily go 20,000 miles if you wanted it to.
That's odd, the pure one used to be one of the best filters out there.
Mobil doesn't disclose what their basestocks are made of but one can deduce this from looking at pour point, MRV etc numbers. I'll try to find that for you.
I am not sure I would use Purolator filters. If you go onto www.bobistheoilguy.com forum, many have cut open their filters and found a tear at the crimp end. They have nicknamed it the tearolator. For $7 you can go to walmart and get a Fram Ultra filter with is a synthetic blend media with wire backed mesh and built like a tank. Its a heavy duty filter that can easily go 20,000 miles if you wanted it to.
Originally Posted by dallison
That's odd, the pure one used to be one of the best filters out there.
The PureOne's had an issue with media tears a while back. I believe that has long since been fixed. I used to run PureOne but I stopped when the tear issue appeared.
I switched to the Fram Pro Synthetic FPS7317 which you can get on Ebay for under $6.
Yeah I read about the tear and that seemed to be an issue some found a few years ago. Overall they seem to get great reviews. I'm not a fan of Fram so that's out. Mopar would be next on the list but I read they use inferior gasket material. I'm really not worried about the Purolator.
The Fram Ultra and the Fram Pro Synthetic are the same filter. The only difference is that the Ultra has the grip material.
Do a little research on these filters and you'll find out that they are top notch filters, on par or better than the PureOne and Mobil1. Don't let the "internet" bashing of the Fram brand name cloud your judgement of the Ultra/Pro Synthetic filters.
They were in the other link with the MSDS. 0w20 seems to have 60-70% of Group IV. 5w20 and 5w30 a little less.
OK, I see what you are looking at and it does seem that " 1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED " is indeed Grp IV / PAO.
But I'm skeptical... If Exxon is indeed really using 60-70% PAO for a base stock, then why wouldn't they be trumpeting that loud and clear? No where have I seen such advertisement...
And, Extended Protection 0w20 has the same 60-70% "1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED" as Annual Protection 0w20...
So why would that make Annual Protection any better than Extended Protection?
And how much better is EP/AP 0w20 with a purported 60-70% PAO base stock than regular M1 0w20 with a purported 30-40% PAO base stock?
OK, I see what you are looking at and it does seem that " 1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED " is indeed Grp IV / PAO.
But I'm skeptical... If Exxon is indeed really using 60-70% PAO for a base stock, then why wouldn't they be trumpeting that loud and clear? No where have I seen such advertisement...
And, Extended Protection 0w20 has the same 60-70% "1-DECENE, HOMOPOLYMER HYDROGENATED" as Annual Protection 0w20...
So why would that make Annual Protection any better than Extended Protection?
And how much better is EP/AP 0w20 with a purported 60-70% PAO base stock than regular M1 0w20 with a purported 30-40% PAO base stock?
Ya, not really sure what the exact differences are but pricing it at $50 for 5 quarts there are not many takers or buyers!
07-13-2017, 08:59 AM
I asked him that today and he just started laughing.
